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What The Frost Rework Could Have Been, But Will Be


KoinDuo

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Soooo, taking ideas from all the Frost rework ideas from all around the forums, I've kinda compiled them all together just to show how many different ideas there are for the rework

 

Freeze now applies a cold debuff to all enemies in a large cone in front of Frost for x amount of seconds. Enemies directly in front of Frost are frozen solid

 

Ice Wave: Ice wave is now expands in a circle around frost for a 10m radius that slows enemies and pushes them back. Enemies directly next to Frost get ragdolled and launched away

 

Snow Globe: Timer is removed and Snowglobe lasts until destroyed

 

Avalanche is now replaced with Blizzard: Frost starts channeling a snowstorm that grows in strength over 3 seconds. While the snowstorm is active enemies within the snowstorm are slowed and have cold applied to them. Enemies that stay within Blizzard also have their armor gradually reduced. While Snowstorm is active, Frost slowly gains a passive HP buffer. HP buffer increases based on the damage snowstorm does to enemies while active. There is NO CAP on how much of a HP buffer Frost can gain from snowstorm. The buffer is affected by armor and power strength. It also decays after 4 seconds when snowstorm is deactivated and cannot be refreshed by recasting snowstorm.

 

 

So there's this awesome rework, and then the one we'll be getting is:

Freeze now can create ice patches that slow people

Ice wave is a cone

Snowglobe can push people away

Avalanche freezes, then slows people like nova's 4th ability, and reduces armor. Just in case people aren't already running 4x CP in the higher level missions. which one would you be hyped for?

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Your question at the end is a bit leading, like people arent allowed to be hyped for the dev changes. Either way your ideas are nice but so are the dev ideas. My problem with your ideas are that they just make all his abillities do basicly the same as the others, or make them a bit too powerfull. 

 

Either way lets see what the dev changes bring before going on to say that you can do better

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Blizzard sounds like a mobile Snow Globe, to an extent, sort of like the Eximus' version. Not bad though.

 

Interesting.

 

A wave of Ice Waves going out around from Frost as an epicenter sounds pretty rad. I've always liked the power.

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i like the blizzard idea but it has too many things : deflection, slow, freeze, -armor,hp buff, no cap on hp buff... maybe cut that freeze or slow and hp buff and it could be a very good idea.

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So what you're saying is we should be sad that DE didn't make Frost OP?

is the new excalibur OP then?

and yea maybe blizzard might be a bit too OP, but its literally ideas that came out from more than 1 person. multiple people have posted ideas on how his 4th should be changed, and personally, i don't mind if 1 or 2 of the things that i listed with blizzard being removed. For example, the hp buffer and the blocked projectiles from outside can go, or they can stay and instead the armor shred is removed, and it only slows. either way, there's more you could do with the rework then just tweak his abilities to do 1 or 2 things more.

 

Your question at the end is a bit leading, like people arent allowed to be hyped for the dev changes. Either way your ideas are nice but so are the dev ideas. My problem with your ideas are that they just make all his abillities do basicly the same as the others, or make them a bit too powerfull. 

 

Either way lets see what the dev changes bring before going on to say that you can do better

would you be hyped for the changes the devs are making? ice patch, no timer on globe, a cone of ice and an ult that slows and removes armor? would anyone really be hyped? look at the scale of the excalibur rework and whats going to happen to frost. when you put those 2 side to side you have to admit that the frost rework is grossly lacking

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Firstly, Exalted Blade's waves need a little toning down. 40m of high damage infinite punch through is not okay, no matter how new the rework is.

Secondly, not OP? You turned Freeze into an augmented Ice wave, which will then have a chance to instantly die. You turned Ice Wave into a better Rhino Stomp. You want Frost to continue being the official pod babysitter, and Blizzard is so OP I don't even know where to start. Are you forgetting that frozen enemies have a chance to instantly die now? Are you also aware that casting snow globe may also Freeze the enemies while pushing them away? The only thing I would change about DE's rework on Frost would be to give Freeze a small AoE, not more than 2 or 3 meters wide, because single target skills suffer badly in Warframe. I like my Frost almost as much as I like my Rhino, but I don't want to make him Press literally anything to win.

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I like Blizzard's bulk up mechanic. It'd be neat if the new Avalanche got something like this to help accentuate Frost's tank theme.

 

My only concern with DE's new Avalanche is that it's still going to feel very static and awkward to use.

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Firstly, Exalted Blade's waves need a little toning down. 40m of high damage infinite punch through is not okay, no matter how new the rework is.

Secondly, not OP? You turned Freeze into an augmented Ice wave, which will then have a chance to instantly die. You turned Ice Wave into a better Rhino Stomp. You want Frost to continue being the official pod babysitter, and Blizzard is so OP I don't even know where to start. Are you forgetting that frozen enemies have a chance to instantly die now? Are you also aware that casting snow globe may also Freeze the enemies while pushing them away? The only thing I would change about DE's rework on Frost would be to give Freeze a small AoE, not more than 2 or 3 meters wide, because single target skills suffer badly in Warframe. I like my Frost almost as much as I like my Rhino, but I don't want to make him Press literally anything to win.

I have never heard of frozen enemies having a chance to die instantly. That wasn't mentioned in the devstreams or in any of the wiki articles i've read about cold damage and freeze, nor have i seen it in action in all the time i've spent playing frost. enemies turn to solid ice after they die under the effects of a cold proc. maybe i missed it with the snowglobe rework DE was showing

 

And ice wave will never be better than rhino stomp because it just knocks up enemies and slows them, it doesn't make them stay in the air for 6+ seconds unable to shoot you or do anything at all. 

 

Blizzard is the one thing i'll admit to being OP, but thats simply because i'm listing every single idea that people had about blizzard. The concept of blizzard itself isn't mine, its just something thats been posted by people and gradually improved upon by other posts. The original post is probably long buried under the other posts crying for a frost rework. And to solve the OPness of blizzard, all you have to do is just remove 1-2 of its abilities. You could remove the armor shred and the freeze, or you could remove the deflecting bullets part of it and the hp buffer. its not that complicated. 

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I like Blizzard's bulk up mechanic. It'd be neat if the new Avalanche got something like this to help accentuate Frost's tank theme.

 

My only concern with DE's new Avalanche is that it's still going to feel very static and awkward to use.

the new Avalanche is going to do ABSOULTELY NOTHING to change the way frost is played. and thats my main issue with the whole rework from DE. IT CHANGES NOTHING. am i still going to be spamming snowglobe? YES!. am i still going to stay in one place and never move away from that place? YES!

With blizzard you can move around, take damage, put up snow globes and be like a walking ice bastion. and if Blizzard is too OP, then all one has to do is change some of its aspects. My current iteration of it gives you a hp buffer that increases based on damage done with blizzard, while deflecting all bullets coming from outside blizzard, as well as freezing enemies solid if they stay inside blizzard for too long and reducing their armor. a bit too much i'll admit, but that mostly depends on how people want frost to be like. If you want Frost to be really defensive, then give him the bullet deflection from enemies outside Blizzard, and give him that hp buffer gain, but remove the CC from blizzard by freezing enemies and reducing their armor. If people want frost to be a more offensive mageframe, then give him that Freeze and that armor reduction. but the fundamental point of this entire thread is to change the way frost will be played so that he's viable in more than just 1 mission type. or draco

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the new Avalanche is going to do ABSOULTELY NOTHING to change the way frost is played. and thats my main issue with the whole rework from DE. IT CHANGES NOTHING. am i still going to be spamming snowglobe? YES!. am i still going to stay in one place and never move away from that place? YES!

With blizzard you can move around, take damage, put up snow globes and be like a walking ice bastion. and if Blizzard is too OP, then all one has to do is change some of its aspects. My current iteration of it gives you a hp buffer that increases based on damage done with blizzard, while deflecting all bullets coming from outside blizzard, as well as freezing enemies solid if they stay inside blizzard for too long and reducing their armor. a bit too much i'll admit, but that mostly depends on how people want frost to be like. If you want Frost to be really defensive, then give him the bullet deflection from enemies outside Blizzard, and give him that hp buffer gain, but remove the CC from blizzard by freezing enemies and reducing their armor. If people want frost to be a more offensive mageframe, then give him that Freeze and that armor reduction. but the fundamental point of this entire thread is to change the way frost will be played so that he's viable in more than just 1 mission type. or draco

 

Tenno, you do know what my niche is, right? I'm stationary defense. I can not move swiftly, nor is it my job to fly around the map and be a golden angel, saving everybody and slaughtering the hordes around us. I am a Guardian. An Aegis.

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Frost excels in one thing and one thing only, and thats static defense. it makes him extremely unsuitable for more mobile missions such as hijack or survival as it requires you to do nothing but spam snowglobes just to be able to survive. i'm just going to use T4 voids as a reference. in order to survive as frost in a t4 mission, you need to spam snowglobes. you could spam any other skill but they're all useless compared to how vital snow globe is. When you speak of excelling and mastering a warframe, you mean using all their abilities in conjuction with one another in a display of skill. However, you CANNOT tell me, that spamming one skill over and over again to survive is an example of skill. 

 

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That's because you shouldn't be spamming my abilities in such a manner. Or any other warframe. Energy is finite, even with various ways to restore it. It should be used wisely. Not thrown around like a space magic toy. I didn't say using everything in conjunction either. Not all frames have that ability to combo all of our powers in such a manner. All warframes will always have a niche power as well. Excalibur now has Exalted Blade, Chroma can be build to function as a supportive / retaliation type of tank through his buffs, or even built similar to myself, as a stationary defense unit using his offensive proxy. Rhinos abilities don't particularly combo into each other. But when used properly each single cast will change the battlefield into his teams favor when things get dicey.

 

Again. Mastery isn't simply doing whatever works and doing nothing else. It's using everything you're given in unique ways. Snow Globe can be dotted around the field, or it can be stacked. You even mentioned Hijacking where instead of stationary defense, other Tenno use my powers as a defense train instead. Snow Globe is vital, yes, it's a core ability, every warframe has one of those. But that doesn't mean it's the singular useful weapon a Tenno can wield. Infinite missions aren't even relevant anymore.

 

Breaking the fourth wall further, (SECRET TO THE UNIVERSE IS 42!) with Raid Mode, or -- excuse me -- "Trial of Retribution" we do have a confirmed end-game standard now. And that's Level 80-100 enemy units. ANY Warframe can handle that kind of stress as well, when used properly.

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That's because you shouldn't be spamming my abilities in such a manner. Or any other warframe. Energy is finite, even with various ways to restore it. It should be used wisely. Not thrown around like a space magic toy. I didn't say using everything in conjunction either. Not all frames have that ability to combo all of our powers in such a manner. All warframes will always have a niche power as well. Excalibur now has Exalted Blade, Chroma can be build to function as a supportive / retaliation type of tank through his buffs, or even built similar to myself, as a stationary defense unit using his offensive proxy. Rhinos abilities don't particularly combo into each other. But when used properly each single cast will change the battlefield into his teams favor when things get dicey.

 

Again. Mastery isn't simply doing whatever works and doing nothing else. It's using everything you're given in unique ways. Snow Globe can be dotted around the field, or it can be stacked. You even mentioned Hijacking where instead of stationary defense, other Tenno use my powers as a defense train instead. Snow Globe is vital, yes, it's a core ability, every warframe has one of those. But that doesn't mean it's the singular useful weapon a Tenno can wield. Infinite missions aren't even relevant anymore.

 

Breaking the fourth wall further, (SECRET TO THE UNIVERSE IS 42!) with Raid Mode, or -- excuse me -- "Trial of Retribution" we do have a confirmed end-game standard now. And that's Level 80-100 enemy units. ANY Warframe can handle that kind of stress as well, when used properly.

You say that no ability should be spammed in that sort of manner? Well i can tell you in all confidence that you DO need to spam Snow globe once every 7-8 seconds at least in a T4 defense in order for the pod and your team to survive. Thats a fact. Its hard to use energy wisely when you need to use your abilities that often. And yes, not all frames have wombo combo abilites, but their abilities fit and have a use. Almost every other warframe has more than one ability that it relies on. Rhino needs iron skin to survive, Roar for damage, and stomp to get out of a hairy situation. Excalibro has Exalted blade and Radial blind. Chroma has Vex armor and Elemental ward. Frost has snow globe. Nova has molecular prime, portals and antimatter drop. Limbo has.... stuff..... Vauban has bastilles, vortexes and tesla grenades and his famous bounce castle. Frost has snow globe. Trinity has EV, Blessing, Well of life, Link. Saryn has molt, miasma and 2 other abilities that i'm sure some people find somewhat useful. valkyr has eternal ward and hysteria, Frost has, wait for it, SNOW GLOBE. much skill in pressing one button. much wow, very kappa

 

btw i wanna see an all ember raid ^^

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Avalanche is one of the hardest hitting nuke powers in the game. Have you checked its base damage? It will one hit most things, even in high level content. Ice Wave is one of the strongest slows in the game, and it hits multiple mobs in its linear path. Freeze... while not really useful as it is atm... completely halts all movement and ability to fight back for a VERY long time.

 

You can even Freeze Simularis targets instead of using the zappers on them.

 

That's only the icing on the cake (hur hur... made a pun). At this point I'm not sure if you're either choosing not to understand what I'm saying, or simply not getting the point at all. Exactly as I stated already, what was said in the OP that is suggested, would make Frost over powered.

 

That's not Balance.

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Avalanche is one of the hardest hitting nuke powers in the game. Have you checked its base damage? It will one hit most things, even in high level content. Ice Wave is one of the strongest slows in the game, and it hits multiple mobs in its linear path. Freeze... while not really useful as it is atm... completely halts all movement and ability to fight back for a VERY long time.

 

You can even Freeze Simularis targets instead of using the zappers on them.

 

That's only the icing on the cake (hur hur... made a pun). At this point I'm not sure if you're either choosing not to understand what I'm saying, or simply not getting the point at all. Exactly as I stated already, what was said in the OP that is suggested, would make Frost over powered.

 

That's not Balance.

Avalanche is not Miasma. It has a cast time where you're completely vulnerable and you can't do anything about it. Enemies that don't die immediately to it can instantly shoot you down, unless you recast it again, and again, and again, until you kill everything. Which goes back to your previous post talking about relying solely on one skill alone. Ice wave does NOT have the strongest slow, that belongs to Nova's 4th ability. Freeze only freezes ONE target. Again, since I'm using T4 as a reference, there will be more than just 1 target. But then we run into another problem, which is modding. Its almost mandatory to run max efficiency as Frost mainly because every single mob in a T4 defense or any other T4 mission, or even a raid, will shoot down that globe in seconds. This is why we have to spam snow globe so often :p. 

 

You talk about balance, but where's the sense in mindlessly spamming one button every mission you go to? Either your snow globe or avalanche, you're going to be spamming one or the other. And btw, Saryn's Miasma is the hardest hitting 4th ability in the game capable of hitting almost 14k toxic damage with maxed efficiency and strength. Avalanche can only hit about 4.5k, and thats going to bring your duration down to 12%, which is going to mess with your snowglobe, hence making you spam it more.

 

You have completely missed the point of this whole topic and you've spent the last 5 posts making up contradictory points just to argue with me. You say all powers have a use? True, but you never get to use them with the current version of frost since you'll be spending all your time keeping snowglobe up. You say Avalanche hits hard? A lot of 4th abilities hit hard. The fact that Frost's 4th ability hits harder than most isn't all that amazing, especially since that damage will fall off really quickly due to health and armor scaling. (CP can be used here, but HP scaling still remains)

You have yet to state exactly what specific part of my proposed rework is OP and unbalanced and you still fail to address or highlight any of the issues plaguing frost right now. Either that or you're turning a blind eye to it just to keep the argument going

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Well. Now I can confirm you're choosing not to understand. That's by definition narrow minded. I never mentioned Miasma. I never said Ice Wave is the pinnacle slow power. It's one of the stronger slows however.

 

You're using T4 as an example for things, especially endless missions. Infinite scaling is not end-game. You can not use Survivals, Intercepts, Defenses, etc... as examples for end-game. Their design is intended for you to be in for one full cycle and then you leave. Anything more is extra, while you deal with the constant power spike.

 

Raids are the DEAC confirmed end-game content. Frost is still very relevant with his current build against level 80-100 mobs. That's not infinite scaling either.

 

Stop putting words (*cough* Miasma*cough*) into my mouth I never specifically used, mentioned, or even thought of. Something can be a part of a group but not the daddy of it all. Frost is the king of stationary defense. That is his job. That's what he's intended to do. I even specifically stated, that every frame DOES have their core abilities, but everything else they use -- Frost included -- has a purpose as well. Avalanche and Ice Wave have some of the strongest impacts in the game. That doesn't mean they are, THE strongest. Freeze is very situational currently. But it's still useful. However, Snow Globe is the core power Frost has. This is not likely to change.

 

I said it once, and I will say it again. Frost is an Aegis. He's a shield. Not a killframe. Not a mobile support. Not a healer. Not a hyper utility frame. He's a stationary shield. Guess what? you don't even need to be stationary. Make a globe train if you want to have shields on-the-go. It's creative use of the ability and isn't simple-minded spam either.

 

Please. Learn to debate before you pretend you know how to argue against the guy with the ID named after the frame.

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I have never heard of frozen enemies having a chance to die instantly. That wasn't mentioned in the devstreams or in any of the wiki articles i've read about cold damage and freeze, nor have i seen it in action in all the time i've spent playing frost. enemies turn to solid ice after they die under the effects of a cold proc. maybe i missed it with the snowglobe rework DE was showing

And ice wave will never be better than rhino stomp because it just knocks up enemies and slows them, it doesn't make them stay in the air for 6+ seconds unable to shoot you or do anything at all.

Blizzard is the one thing i'll admit to being OP, but thats simply because i'm listing every single idea that people had about blizzard. The concept of blizzard itself isn't mine, its just something thats been posted by people and gradually improved upon by other posts. The original post is probably long buried under the other posts crying for a frost rework. And to solve the OPness of blizzard, all you have to do is just remove 1-2 of its abilities. You could remove the armor shred and the freeze, or you could remove the deflecting bullets part of it and the hp buffer. its not that complicated.

I can't multiquote on mobile, but check the Devstream 55 overview, it's there.

Ice wace will be better than Rhino Stomp because it costs less energy, does almost the same thing, and is WAY more spammable. So what if enemies aren't frozen in the air? They're slowed down, knocked down, and 30m away!

The bullet deflection and health buffs make no sense on blizzard. The freeze is ridiculous if it's a continuous ability, and if you take out all of those....it's Avalanche again, exactly as DE described it.

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Well. Now I can confirm you're choosing not to understand. That's by definition narrow minded. I never mentioned Miasma. I never said Ice Wave is the pinnacle slow power. It's one of the stronger slows however.

 

You're using T4 as an example for things, especially endless missions. Infinite scaling is not end-game. You can not use Survivals, Intercepts, Defenses, etc... as examples for end-game. Their design is intended for you to be in for one full cycle and then you leave. Anything more is extra, while you deal with the constant power spike.

 

Raids are the DEAC confirmed end-game content. Frost is still very relevant with his current build against level 80-100 mobs. That's not infinite scaling either.

 

Stop putting words (*cough* Miasma*cough*) into my mouth I never specifically used, mentioned, or even thought of. Something can be a part of a group but not the daddy of it all. Frost is the king of stationary defense. That is his job. That's what he's intended to do. I even specifically stated, that every frame DOES have their core abilities, but everything else they use -- Frost included -- has a purpose as well. Avalanche and Ice Wave have some of the strongest impacts in the game. That doesn't mean they are, THE strongest. Freeze is very situational currently. But it's still useful. However, Snow Globe is the core power Frost has. This is not likely to change.

 

I said it once, and I will say it again. Frost is an Aegis. He's a shield. Not a killframe. Not a mobile support. Not a healer. Not a hyper utility frame. He's a stationary shield. Guess what? you don't even need to be stationary. Make a globe train if you want to have shields on-the-go. It's creative use of the ability and isn't simple-minded spam either.

 

Please. Learn to debate before you pretend you know how to argue against the guy with the ID named after the frame.

Your words contradict yourself once again. Avalanche's only impact in the game is its damage, yet you say Frost isn't a kill frame. And Warframe in its core aspects is a fast paced action based game that relies on player movement. That's why we're getting parkour 2.0. And all right fine, I won't use T4 endless missions as an example. It still does not change the fact that you will be using snow globe and snow globe only. And Frost is also rather irrelevant in raids tbh, Volt is a better pick over frost, but thats not the point. And the Ice wave slow is literally just a cold proc. Nothing fancy. You can also proc cold status effects with your weapons. And yet again you come back to ability spam with the globe train. You're just endorsing ability spam while condoning it in your previous posts. And its not a creative use of snow globe when you're just placing them in a line. A creative use is falling down and placing snow globes in a line so you can make a snowman. And freeze is utterly worthless when for 25 energy more you can slow a larger group of enemies instead of just that one person who looked at you the wrong way. And the only thing I can't understand is how much you contradict yourself. 

That's because you shouldn't be spamming my abilities in such a manner. Or any other warframe. Energy is finite, even with various ways to restore it. It should be used wisely. Not thrown around like a space magic to

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I can't multiquote on mobile, but check the Devstream 55 overview, it's there.

Ice wace will be better than Rhino Stomp because it costs less energy, does almost the same thing, and is WAY more spammable. So what if enemies aren't frozen in the air? They're slowed down, knocked down, and 30m away!

The bullet deflection and health buffs make no sense on blizzard. The freeze is ridiculous if it's a continuous ability, and if you take out all of those....it's Avalanche again, exactly as DE described it.

read the changes please. Blizzard doesn't deflect bullets anymore. All you get is a cold proc, armor reduction and the hp buffer. And Ice wave just knocks people back and slows them. Enemies closer to you might get launced to outer space but its more like just clearing a small space around you. It does NOT compare to Rhino stomp's CC.

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read the changes please. Blizzard doesn't deflect bullets anymore. All you get is a cold proc, armor reduction and the hp buffer. And Ice wave just knocks people back and slows them. Enemies closer to you might get launced to outer space but its more like just clearing a small space around you. It does NOT compare to Rhino stomp's CC.

So if blizzard is now exactly like DE's proposed Avalanche, what's the point?

Also, you're telling me that a 25m knockdown that pushes enemies back and slows them down while being spammable is not comparable to a 25m knockdown that slows down enemies WITHOUT being spammable? That's also an ULTIMATE? Being both slowed and knocked down , which means taking longer to get up and still being slowed after you get up is just as good as being frozen doing nothing for about 8 seconds. Better if you can RECAST, which Rhino CANNOT DO.

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Why must everyone make a "DE's changes aren't good because they didn't make my frame OP" thread Frost isnt a run and gun frame as far as powers are concerned. He is best suited for stationary defense as mentioned earlier. He can be used on higher levels of survival and he is my favorite frame to use on the interceptions... FROST TONKER FTW!!! His powers could use some spicing, be i think the devs are on poi t with their changes. His powers will in prove in utility (MORE CC), and usability.

Most times people come up with these crazy abilities that do 18 things ( damage, damage over time, CC, multiple utility through armor reduction weakening... etc) and it is simply too much (my opinion of course) that is what this feels like. Although creative it is just over the top in some regards. Just let DE's changes go through and see what happens.

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So if blizzard is now exactly like DE's proposed Avalanche, what's the point?

Also, you're telling me that a 25m knockdown that pushes enemies back and slows them down while being spammable is not comparable to a 25m knockdown that slows down enemies WITHOUT being spammable? That's also an ULTIMATE? Being both slowed and knocked down , which means taking longer to get up and still being slowed after you get up is just as good as being frozen doing nothing for about 8 seconds. Better if you can RECAST, which Rhino CANNOT DO.

reduce the range then, i didn't come up with those numbers, that was you. I'm not a numbers person, these are just ideas. And this is a Frost rework, not rhino rework. Put in a timer for the recast then if you think thats too OP. For example, you can't cast it until all enemies are back up. And rhino can also do the same btw, and you can mod for -duration or more duration, thats up to you and how you mod your rhino. Solutions are simple if you look for them

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