The Latest Information On Greedy Pull

[f3llyn]

"Cope with the S#&$ we're given." There's no time limit on the game- you have forever to do things. Nothing is making you resort to drastic measures to get anything in this game. The only time people resort to these "drastic measures" is when they decide they "NEED" everything instantly.

 

According to my profile I have been playing for 10-11 months. Mastery Rank doesn't mean ANYTHING AT ALL anymore SPECIFICALLY because of the issue we're discussing. Draco has killed ALL meaning in it. You can literally get MR19 now with less than 24 hours of playtime- yes, you can believe it or not. I'm not claiming I'm a "veteran" because I'm high MR and I'm not using it because I think I'm pro/elite. I'm saying it because I have a LOT of playtime (~1000 hours or so in game last I checked), and having thoroughly experienced most of what the game has to offer I feel I can offer a pretty objective view on things. Things that people who want everything and things that people who have everything both feel- I feel. People that have a mountain of "grind" left, and people with nothing to do- I've felt both of those. I'm digressing on this statement, but people who do Draco and level everything in the game within a week don't get both experiences.

 

The problem is not the "farm", the problem is not the "farming tools", the CORE of the problem lies in the fact that everyone SEES it as a farm- when it is not. It is a game that is meant to be slowly savored and enjoyed over time- not rushed through to set a world record.

 

Well if it's a question of need vs want then we don't need to play the game at all. We choose to play it. So of course it's a choice and it doesn't make any sense to even try to use that as an argument.

 

As for the rest. Are you saying new players have gmag and all the mods to make it work? Or Mesa? Or Necros? Is that really what you're saying? Because that also doesn't make any sense. You can't just make a new account and hop into draco and have it work so I also find this argument doesn't hold up very well.

 

But you're right about the last part. People see it as a farm because that's pretty much all there is to do. They gave us 1 raid that takes an hour and then you're done for the week. Beyond that there is literally no other end game.

Edited July 6, 2015 by f3llyn

[Haetur]

I'll be honest. That would make mag useless for anything but Corpus missions.

Really.

 

Mag wouldn't be viable anymore.
 

[PussyCat]

I like the idea of making greedy pull work only for the caster, but also changing how the pick-ups work. Instead of every player having to pick up the items, why not make it that if one person picks it up then all players receive it. This is how it works for credits, so why not expand it to the rest of the pick-ups.

 

This will also most likely fix many of the bugs with players not being able to pick up loot.

[geninrising]

I'll be honest. That would make mag useless for anything but Corpus missions.

Really.

 

Mag wouldn't be viable anymore.

 

Do you even Void bruh? No seriously do you?

[ImTheBlack1]

The amount of salt in the thread is real.

 

Mag is still plenty powerful. Mod her correctly and she is deadly well beyond wave 40 or minute 40 in survival.

 

I personally agree with the nerf, however the augment mod is pretty worthless if you're running with other people. I think a new augment mod is in order. Maybe enemies that are pulled get pinned to the ground for X number of seconds. Or enemies killed with pull will add a magnetic damage multiplier that lasts X number of seconds that will be added to mags attacks and weapons.

 

Yes warframe is grindy and greedy pull was very effective at making the grind more bearable. I do think there are things DE could do to open new avenues of experience gain and they have done that with spy missions but I would like to see more. Why don't nightmare missions give more experience? Like seriously, they require more experience to clear don't they? Why dont you get a bit of experience when you find a secret room? Why dont you get an exp boost if the pod/excavator doesnt take any damgae? But I also think that in MMO's in general people tend to want the game to be perfectly balanced in every way shape or form. Its just not possible. People will always find the most efficient way to do something and they will hammer that method forever until it is no longer the #1 method. Remember instant mprime? Invincible snow globe? Invincible blessing? All huge nerfs and people still find a way to play them effectively. Now I know mag has never been very popular, but that doesn't change the fact that she can be very effective when in the right hands.

 

I for one blame peacemaker far more than I blame greedy pull for the current 'draco setup'. 

 

Also now that animal instincts is a thing, finding loot just got a whole lot easier without carrier so this nerf really isn't the end of the world.

[WNxSpectre]

I agree with the change.  Let's try this out and see how it performs.  If the mod turns out to be underpowered additional changes can be made in future.

[Faulcun]

All I can say is "Darn it now we have to actually move around and play the game to get stuff." Entitlement is equated to sheer laziness folks. If you want nice things work for them, don't stand in a corner and press one button. "Oh my god but the grind is too hard." Have you played ANY f2p game? Because it certainly does not sound like it. "Why should we have to actually run around and use guns? This is so stupid." SMH this is why I say power spam has virtually ruined Warframe.

 

The following are precise quotes from various posts and I'm not directly quoting to avoid name shaming or wtf ever they call it. Tell me these don't appear childish and infantile.

 

well i guess its time for people to go dust off their trinitys

Poor farmers #sarcasm

 

I enjoy power farming or whatever you call it as a part of warframe, I don't want to be constently running all over the map to get loot

Too lazy to actually enjoy your play time playing the game the way it is meant to be played?

 

Woo, that's a load off my back. Now, as a Mag main, I won't have to worry about people expecting me to be useful or even carry my own weight above Jupiter or T2. Thanks, DE!

Hate to go here but "Get good Scrub" "Right tool for the right job" Oh and "We among the faction known as the Corpus appreciate your lack of knowledge about Mag and hope your self imposed ignorance remains in perpetuity."

 

The one use Mag had was loot gathering, because every other role she could fill (support, nuker) is done better by other frames. 

Hey, please feel free to simply keep your mouth shut as you obviously don't know who to take where and what works well. Please note that Mag is the ONLY FRAME THAT HAS DAMAGE SCALING TO MATCH THE ENEMIES WE FACE IN INFINITE VOID RUNS AND CAN LITERALLY 1 SHOT AN ENTIRE THIRD*possibly more but I hate math and of course explaining the AOE on shield polarize to those that refuse to pay attention*(barring nullifiers ofc, don't be obtuse) OF THE ENEMIES IN SAID CONTENT.

 

In short Mag is great, Lazy players should leave. Nasty attitude of spoiled brats the lot of you.

 

Thank god somebody said it. The amount of scrubbery in this thread never ceases to amaze me. Who do I blame for the immense amount of people who have no idea what they are doing?

[TheGuyver]

So basically it's just a giant carrier for mag only. Can we just have a new augment replace greedy pull instead of this? I mean yeah it sounds cool for the mag using it, but they could do something else besides this like pulling lockers open to get the stuff inside or getting loot out of locked void rooms.

 

I'm still surprised Mesa and draco haven't gotten the vivergate treatment yet because now it's just going to be people on there with an energy vamp trinity and mesa. Then trinity gets nerfed again, and the root of the problem still remains.

Edited July 7, 2015 by TheGuyverOne

[Fafy]

I find that the bigger problem with the Stand-still-and-farm meta laid more in the Warframe that's in my profile avatar as opposed to the Greedy Pull augment.

 

How about we add some actual demand of skill and make Peacemaker function similarly to Exalted Blade as far as using it goes, hm? Make the Mesa have to actually aim instead of Left click>Watch everything die as Mag pulls energy to you.

 

A "band-aid" on the wrong wound.

[(XBOX)BLK THORN]

DE, most of us know its impossible to satisfy everyone here but you guys are making things way more complicated. You know that most of those who complained havent used a Gmag in your raids because they will only use cookie cutter squads because of Youtube. At this point they may not give her a chance like Limbo, Ember, Zephyr,and Oberon. So if a players favorite Warframe is one of these aforementioned get a buff that works well and makes them more ideal to use then lets say the community favorites for raids, will you guys nerf them because the outcry of jealous gamers? Most of your older gamers don't see a use for them at all.

Are you guys going to fold and nerf everything after U17 if these same group of gamers whine and complain every day about those changes? This game is the rope in a tug of war between you DE and the gamers who are selfish and can't stand change in the status to their favorite warframes for game invites.

Do you guys realize that you still have older players that refuse to accept your raids as endgame and still promote a T4 Survival for a hour as true endgame? Are you guys afraid to develop your game as you envision it?

DE why do you take one step forward then two steps back so much?

[ArcticPhoenix0]

Well, at least I'll have the memories of me trying to start the Lawnmower of Destiny in Defense/Draco missions. Hoping, no praying, for that golden column of a rare mod.

[H3dsh0t]

90% of these responses remind me of how much I miss the days where people had to move around for their loot. Those were the days, funny thing is, I don't remember people complaining that they had to move before.

 

DE know that this is the START of a process to overhaul the way this semi-afk farm is working, as the initial post states. I highly doubt that Mesa's peacemaker will remain the way it is. DE know that if they keep GMag exactly the way it is now, then people will just move onto the next 4tw frame, even if peacemaker is changed. Removing the auto loot pull increases the chance of the 50 mod cap being reached quicker, reducing the efficiency of the farm, at least for the time being.

 

I know its not what people want to hear but DE have a tonne of stuff they are working on, parkour 2.0, star map 2.0 and whatever else they have for 17. Changing the way a mod works from being for the team to being for mag only is a much less time intensive job than changing maps/abilities, but I would expect further changes once DE can sit down and try to rework this. You never know, the new star map may even lessen the need for this type of superfarm.

Edited July 7, 2015 by H3dsh0t

[Kamachi]

90% of these responses remind me of how much I miss the days where people had to move around for their loot. Those were the days, funny thing is, I don't remember people complaining that they had to move before.

 

DE know that this is the START of a process to overhaul the way this semi-afk farm is working, as the initial post states. I highly doubt that Mesa's peacemaker will remain the way it is. DE know that if they keep GMag exactly the way it is now, then people will just move onto the next 4tw frame, even if peacemaker is changed. Removing the auto loot pull increases the chance of the 50 mod cap being reached quicker, reducing the efficiency of the farm, at least for the time being.

 

I know its not what people want to hear but DE have a tonne of stuff they are working on, parkour 2.0, star map 2.0 and whatever else they have for 17. Changing the way a mod works from being for the team to being for mag only is a much less time intensive job than changing maps/abilities, but I would expect further changes once DE can sit down and try to rework this. You never know, the new star map may even lessen the need for this type of superfarm.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2015 by Kamachi

[sylanna]

I find that the bigger problem with the Stand-still-and-farm meta laid more in the Warframe that's in my profile avatar as opposed to the Greedy Pull augment.

They can't nerf Mesa. She still earns them a lot of money.

[sylanna]

90% of these responses remind me of how much I miss the days where people had to move around for their loot. Those were the days, funny thing is, I don't remember people complaining that they had to move before.

I actually did complain a lot. I hated running to most guys I shot. That's why I used carrier in 100% of my runs.

I also think that I am not the only one, by far. If people didn't mind running for their loot, carrier wouldn't have been the most used sentinel before Greedy Pull.

[Culaio]

The amount of salt in the thread is real.

 

Mag is still plenty powerful. Mod her correctly and she is deadly well beyond wave 40 or minute 40 in survival.

 

I personally agree with the nerf, however the augment mod is pretty worthless if you're running with other people. I think a new augment mod is in order. Maybe enemies that are pulled get pinned to the ground for X number of seconds. Or enemies killed with pull will add a magnetic damage multiplier that lasts X number of seconds that will be added to mags attacks and weapons.

 

Yes warframe is grindy and greedy pull was very effective at making the grind more bearable. I do think there are things DE could do to open new avenues of experience gain and they have done that with spy missions but I would like to see more. Why don't nightmare missions give more experience? Like seriously, they require more experience to clear don't they? Why dont you get a bit of experience when you find a secret room? Why dont you get an exp boost if the pod/excavator doesnt take any damgae? But I also think that in MMO's in general people tend to want the game to be perfectly balanced in every way shape or form. Its just not possible. People will always find the most efficient way to do something and they will hammer that method forever until it is no longer the #1 method. Remember instant mprime? Invincible snow globe? Invincible blessing? All huge nerfs and people still find a way to play them effectively. Now I know mag has never been very popular, but that doesn't change the fact that she can be very effective when in the right hands.

 

I for one blame peacemaker far more than I blame greedy pull for the current 'draco setup'. 

 

Also now that animal instincts is a thing, finding loot just got a whole lot easier without carrier so this nerf really isn't the end of the world.

 

biggest problem with this nerf is the fact that it goes against team play, Greedy mod is actually a GREAT mod and not because of farming use, but because it gives mag additional role in team: team support, now we will end only with trinity, g-mag was good alternative to trinity, it wasnt as great as trinity at supplying energy but on the other hand it was able tu supply you with ammo.

 

Now ONLY use of greedy augment will be resource/mod farming(the irony of turning good support augment mod into farming only mod to prevent farming...), no one will bring this mod to high level void mission because you will have bigger chance of surviving if you build your mag without this augment mod and making other abilities better, people will probably end up build mag in such way that they will spam ability 4....

[Jukantos]

I MASSIVELY would have preferred if you'd adress the issue of Mesa. A change as simple as making it impossible for her to pick up energy while channeling her Peacemakers would already deal with a lot of the problems the game currently. has.

 

Then again, the progression system overall has pretty much cornered people that like actual progress into exploiting optimal cases like Mesa, while Gunplay has been massively downgraded in power compared to ability-spam based gameplay, because the enemies were adapted to scale with that very ability-based gameplay.

 

Playing with the guns i loved most, for example my Latron Prime, feels incredibly underwhelming when i have to pump an entire clip into a nullifier on a 6-forma build to barely collapse his godmode bubble. Don't even get me started on my beloved, now dusted Paris Prime.

 

These changes will not fix the overall problem. If anything, i'll expect to see trinities popping back up. It'll still be about stationary ability based strategies, using Mesa, Loki, Frost and Vauban in the very same way.

 

Yes, Greedy Pull is the most-cast ability in the game currently, but please compare the kill-stats from Peacemaker to all other weapons in the game and you'll see WHY people are using it.

 

And i firmly believe forcing people to play randomized mission types just to take them off an optimal progression path that's been constantly combatted but thus also highlighted by releases of mechanics like nullifiers is going to get you anywhere. Yes, Draco needs to be gone. A Free2Play Game with paid exp boosters cant have people bringing their gear to max level in half an hour. BUT, simultaneously, please consider why the classical way of leveling stuff, through actual gameplay and gunplay has become so much less fun than it used to be (see my explanation on my favourite weapons above). When i started this game, my squads used less chain-cc than pretty much every enemy faction can now throw on me. Being stuck in knockdown animations until i'm killed off isn't really fun gameplay, otherwise i'd be playing Dota 2, not Warframe.

 

All i can do is once again urge you to use the Starchart rework to do your best to not only slow down player progression, but also to bring back the focus to actual gunplay. Maybe instead of an impenetrable godshield, nullifiers should just grant their allies a 90% ability-resistance aura in a much larger area, and try to stick in the back lines, maybe even given an avoidance-based AI like the Mutalist MOAs. You know, reward players who go after them, using actual gunplay and mobility instead of sitting in a stationary place. I think the U17 Mobility-Changes offer a GREAT opportunity here.

 

Instead of the Excitement i had for previous updates, i am more and more afraid of U17. I mean, from the perspective of someone who STILL hasn't maxed out all his mods after over 2000 hours of gameplay, can you imagine how this list of announced "features" sounds?

 

- No choice of mission type. Progression Efficiency completely at the whim of a weekly rotation or whatever content i get access to for that week.

- Potentially closed off access from all Prime Gear in the game, potentially Prime Access being exclusive for new gear for Weeks if "Void Cracks" for the new items "randomly" take their time to appear on the starchart (This is pure speculation, but you've done very little to disperse these fears after the confirmation that the void with its key access system will be completely gone)

- Coptering Removed as a means of fast movement CONFIRMED to effectively slow down mission clearing speed in the last devstream, telling us we're "exploring" instead. Sorry, but that sounds ridicolous, i've seen every room on every tileset in this game, i know every container placement, i'm in it for the treasure hunt. If i'm going to be forced to play mission types i would not want to play because they traditionally drop very few mods and thus don't help me advance my collection with fusion material, i don't want to be forced to be play them at a slower pace than i currently can, just because i can bounce off walls with a cooler looking, but slower system, while the shop rubs the Dragon Mod Pack and Gold Fusion Core Packs in my Face. The buzzword exploration sounded so ironic it really came over cynical to me in that last stream.

 

I'm REALLY sorry how doom-thread-y this turned out. But these are legitimate fears and you've done little to nothing to adress them, other than smugly declare on the streams you can't wait how many more doom-threads your announcements spawn.

 

Here's an Idea: If you have to slow down player progression speed to reinstate the value of your paid boosters, just do it, fix the most blatant abuse cases and work on the underlying problems, instead of reworking the access to ALL of your content in a way that can only be seen as potentially disastrous for (unpaid) player progression. I don't wanna write Doom-Threads. I don't WANT to feel bad about an upcoming update. But with the Damocles-sword of potentially crippled content-access, and the spectre of Perfect World hovering in the background pulling strings, i am truely afraid. PW have "value-extracted" two MMOs i played and loved and i don't know if i could stand seeing Warframe going the same way to nudge players towards paid progression harder and harder. You could evaporate these concerns in mere seconds, but all you've done ever since the first Devstream that catered these worries of future progression (Devstream 46, Minute 54:40, Rebecca being shut up by Sheldon in an almost embarassing display of topic-changing and viewer-blanking) has been further feeding them with smug responses, mocking people being afraid for their favourite game in doom-threads and even showing outright contempt in some infamous redtexts around the whole Phoenix Interception Escalation blowup which led to even my peers agree'ing some of the things thrown at the community were straight up unprofessional.

 

I hope U17 is an amazing release that caters to all mission types equally and rewards players for playing well, delivers the coolest enemy faction in the game yet, reinstates the lore around the solar rails and out-of-our-solar-system remnants of the orokin and the sentients, brings back fun and rewarding gunplay instead of ability-spamming grinding. The hope is there. I could see great things coming from this. But all i have left after everything that's happened over this past half year is straight up fear, that Warframe is going to turn into a Pay2Progress Grindfest focused on the same few frames that still allow for abusive exploits on a lower and lower progression scale. And i'd be absolutely over the moon if i'm wrong. PLEASE, let me be wrong.

[Frozenwolffire]

all the devs did was Made Nekros hydroid and triny that much more powerfull with out thinking like all devs do and to make up for their short coming they will nerf all 3 frames soon so no one can farm with eas any more

Edited July 7, 2015 by Frozenwolffire

[chaotea]

Sort of feel this is a bad move. Sure its over used, but by the same merit you could call for frost snow globe to only protect the caster, as i dont see frost being asked for in def missions for any other reason.

 

I would have thought a better move would have been to increase the cast cost by items pulled, or have number of items pulled effected by strength.

[chaotea]

I MASSIVELY would have preferred if you'd adress the issue of Mesa. A change as simple as making it impossible for her to pick up energy while channeling her Peacemakers would already deal with a lot of the problems the game currently has.

The plus side about this buff is us messa's now have to hunt our own energy, but tbh i find that easy enough anyway.

[Frozenwolffire]

Sort of feel this is a bad move. Sure its over used, but by the same merit you could call for frost snow globe to only protect the caster, as i dont see frost being asked for in def missions for any other reason.

 

I would have thought a better move would have been to increase the cast cost by items pulled, or have number of items pulled effected by strength.

they aint thinking cause the made a power vaccume instead of gpull they now made nekros hydroid and triny the group to run in farming areas and soon those 3 will get nerfed

[chaotea]

they aint thinking cause the made a power vaccume instead of gpull they now made nekros hydroid and triny the group to run in farming areas and soon those 3 will get nerfed

I think its driven by the number of players using greedy pull builds on farming missions, but i think its just that mag is a fairly un-interesting frame to take on regular missions.

[Frozenwolffire]

90% of these responses remind me of how much I miss the days where people had to move around for their loot. Those were the days, funny thing is, I don't remember people complaining that they had to move before.

 

DE know that this is the START of a process to overhaul the way this semi-afk farm is working, as the initial post states. I highly doubt that Mesa's peacemaker will remain the way it is. DE know that if they keep GMag exactly the way it is now, then people will just move onto the next 4tw frame, even if peacemaker is changed. Removing the auto loot pull increases the chance of the 50 mod cap being reached quicker, reducing the efficiency of the farm, at least for the time being.

 

I know its not what people want to hear but DE have a tonne of stuff they are working on, parkour 2.0, star map 2.0 and whatever else they have for 17. Changing the way a mod works from being for the team to being for mag only is a much less time intensive job than changing maps/abilities, but I would expect further changes once DE can sit down and try to rework this. You never know, the new star map may even lessen the need for this type of superfarm.

star map 2.0 is a joke why should it take me 6 months to make some thing that takes me about a week to make with the set up that they have now? Also they didnt do anything to the Superfarm mode they took 1 frame out of it and they still have 3 superfarmers in there in Nekros Hydroid and triny in a group so back to your point the Devs get paid to sit on their bums and screw over their own jobs cause they think they know better then you or I. FYI this was the down fall of WoW and soon to be WF cause of dev greed

[Frozenwolffire]

I think its driven by the number of players using greedy pull builds on farming missions, but i think its just that mag is a fairly un-interesting frame to take on regular missions.

and yet once the Devs see that the only 3 frames that are being use to farm again then those 3 are going to get nerfed and over kill the game cause they know whats best for their pockets right?

[LabraD0rk]

Is it possible to actually outline what the issue is? I understand that it is creating a game type where a team stays stationary -- but it is also allowing teams to get to higher levels. In my opinion you've not created any monsters here. Teams that don't want a GMag in their party ask you not to bring one into the party. Teams that do play for hours together and feel rewarded.

 

It was also brought up in your DEV Stream that "No cool downs" is an inherent philosophy in the game design. The idea was dismissed without even being explored as an option. A cool down would make it more difficult to feed the frames that benefit from the energy brought in by gpull and keep Gmags from trolling other people, which are the only two problems with the ability that I can see. 

 

I think that the last note here is that Gpull made mag viable at something. She doesn't have CC abilities that scale; she doesn't have the life or armour that make her survivable; She doesn't have the ability to be a damage or support build. So, by nerfing gpull as a team ability, it looks like it's the bench for mag. Please pay attention to that metric! After a certain level there are frames that never see the light of day again and Mag is one of them. Sure -- FCrush is great, until enemies hit lvl 30ish.

 

Also -- was the number of hours played or time spent in missions taken into account when looking at the amount of players using gpull? You guys are smart people so I expect that you're looking at the bigger picture, but isn't having people play the game and spend on platinum the goal? If people want to log in and play for 4 hours by pressing 1, why not let them? Farmville does essentially that very thing. I never take a gmag to a fight that isn't a def or an intercept -- but that's just me? Certain frames are OP when in certain situations, Loki in a spy mission?