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A nerf to grinding is what they ought to do... Removing the ability to pull all the drops for the team to pick them up was a greasy thing to do.

 

This is a free to play game. The grind is there to encourage people to buy things instead, if you dont want to put up with it. Like the wonderful prime access that was just released, for example. Without this cash flow, there is no more game to make.

 

This is not directed at you specifically, because there are a ton of people who make similar comments. But does everybody forget that simple fact? This is the business model of this product. This is what allows them to continue to develop for this game. Any adjustment can have adverse affects on monetary income, and needs to be approached with the utmost care.

 

Or is it that nobody cares? Then if people are aware of this fact, and still ask for change, are they thinking far enough ahead to realize they are asking for the game to end, or at least run the possibility of significantly reducing its lifespan? For what? instant gratification? Is it ignorance?

 

I dont get it.

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This is a free to play game. The grind is there to encourage people to buy things instead, if you dont want to put up with it. Like the wonderful prime access that was just released, for example. Without this cash flow, there is no more game to make.

 

This is not directed at you specifically, because there are a ton of people who make similar comments. But does everybody forget that simple fact? This is the business model of this product. This is what allows them to continue to develop for this game. Any adjustment can have adverse affects on monetary income, and needs to be approached with the utmost care.

 

Or is it that nobody cares? Then if people are aware of this fact, and still ask for change, are they thinking far enough ahead to realize they are asking for the game to end, or at least run the possibility of significantly reducing its lifespan? For what? instant gratification? Is it ignorance?

 

I dont get it.

Requiring effort to get items != grind to get items. Doing the same thing over and over to get a reward is a grind. Doing a bunch of different stuff to get a reward, so that you don't burn yourself out on one particular activity, is not a grind (or at least much less of a grind).

 

Right now, the best way to level up weapons and syndicates is to grind Draco. Nerfing the grind means making it so that you can get just as much rep/xp from missions other than Draco—or, really, other than endless mission types in general.

Edited by motorfirebox

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Requiring effort to get items != grind to get items. Doing the same thing over and over to get a reward is a grind. Doing a bunch of different stuff to get a reward, so that you don't burn yourself out on one particular activity, is not a grind (or at least much less of a grind).

 

Right now, the best way to level up weapons and syndicates is to grind Draco. Nerfing the grind means making it so that you can get just as much rep/xp from missions other than Draco—or, really, other than endless mission types in general.

 

Yes, you have identified a grind properly. It doesnt change my statement at all. However, lets address your points anyways.

 

Player A CHOOSES to grind draco over and over and burn themselves out. I, however, choose to bring only the weapon I am leveling into whatever missions my clan members are doing, so that I can help them and support them at the same time. In the process, I hone my skills because of my unranked weapon, I learn what the weapons weaknesses are because its the only one I have, and the challenge is always something different because Ill take it into ANY mission - T4 or whatever, completely unranked. In the end, I become a better player every time.

 

Meanwhile, Player A is still grinding Draco learning nothing but how to continue to be a scrub. Also, it has been made quite clear by DE that the way Draco is being played was not intentional by design. By your definition of "nerfing the grind", a simple adjustment of lowering the amount of XP earned in Draco to match any other given mission would work, as any other mission would provide no more or less than you can earn in Draco.

 

I have approached every single weapon and frame in this mannor, all the way to MR19, and I am not bored.

Edited by Faulcun
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Yes, you have identified a grind properly. It doesnt change my statement at all. However, lets address your points anyways.

 

Player A CHOOSES to grind draco over and over and burn themselves out. I, however, choose to bring only the weapon I am leveling into whatever missions my clan members are doing, so that I can help them and support them at the same time. In the process, I hone my skills because of my unranked weapon, I learn what the weapons weaknesses are because its the only one I have, and the challenge is always something different because Ill take it into ANY mission - T4 or whatever, completely unranked. In the end, I become a better player every time.

 

Meanwhile, Player A is still grinding Draco learning nothing but how to continue to be a scrub. Also, it has been made quite clear by DE that the way Draco is being played was not intentional by design. By your definition of "nerfing the grind", a simple adjustment of lowering the amount of XP earned in Draco to match any other given mission would work, as any other mission would provide no more or less than you can earn in Draco.

 

I have approached every single weapon and frame in this mannor, all the way to MR19, and I am not bored.

Hurray for you! You have lots and lots of time to play the game, and you choose to play it in ways that are fun for you. For myself, I don't enjoy bringing underleveled weapons into missions anymore, especially when it's because I put a forma on it. To me, playing with an underleveled weapon is even more of a grind than Draco, so I do Draco instead. You see, different people have different ideas of what constitutes fun gameplay. I'm glad you found a playstyle that is fun for you! But that playstyle isn't fun for me, and it's not fun for a lot of other people, so we're discussing ways DE could improve the game to make it more fun for more people.

 

And yes, indeed, reducing the amount of xp/rep gained from Draco and other endless missions would meet my stated goal! I don't think it's a very good solution—it's actually a really terrible solution for a number of reasons—but quite frankly it would be better than the current situation.

 

None of which really touches on my point that requiring more effort to get items != grinding to get items. There are a number of avenues to fix the grindiness of Warframe as it currently exists. Very few of the ones I've seen proposed negatively impact Warframe's pay-to-shortcut revenue model. 

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Hurray for you! You have lots and lots of time to play the game, and you choose to play it in ways that are fun for you. For myself, I don't enjoy bringing underleveled weapons into missions anymore, especially when it's because I put a forma on it. To me, playing with an underleveled weapon is even more of a grind than Draco, so I do Draco instead. You see, different people have different ideas of what constitutes fun gameplay. I'm glad you found a playstyle that is fun for you! But that playstyle isn't fun for me, and it's not fun for a lot of other people, so we're discussing ways DE could improve the game to make it more fun for more people.

 

And yes, indeed, reducing the amount of xp/rep gained from Draco and other endless missions would meet my stated goal! I don't think it's a very good solution—it's actually a really terrible solution for a number of reasons—but quite frankly it would be better than the current situation.

 

None of which really touches on my point that requiring more effort to get items != grinding to get items. There are a number of avenues to fix the grindiness of Warframe as it currently exists. Very few of the ones I've seen proposed negatively impact Warframe's pay-to-shortcut revenue model. 

 

I actually dont. I run a business during the day, my family, and a community at night. I try to put in a hour or so every day. Sometimes it turns out to be less, or not at all. Ive just been doing it for a long time.

 

But I dont think I understand something. I get that what is fun for somebody, may not be fun for another. But are you implying that the reason you do Draco is because its fun for you? Or the most fun out of a handful of options that arent fun? If this is what you consider to be fun, then whats the problem? You are doing something you enjoy.

 

Either way, if all you are looking for is a change in scenery, perhaps the solar map rework will address your issue.

 

Edit: But dont you find it a little silly? That in order for you to play on a different map or do something a different way, DE has to force you to do it? If you dont enjoy Draco, what do you enjoy? If there is nothing else for you to do, then why still play?

Edited by Faulcun
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Edit: But dont you find it a little silly? That in order for you to play on a different map or do something a different way, DE has to force you to do it? If you dont enjoy Draco, what do you enjoy? If there is nothing else for you to do, then why still play?

As someone who doesnt like the gp nerf, i knew some players who are happy with the decision would ask this question lol

Everyone has their own opinion but asking why still play if you aint happy with the game? Meh..

Imo, nerfing gp wouldnt fix the issue like countless threads people will find another way to replace gmag.

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I actually dont. I run a business during the day, my family, and a community at night. I try to put in a hour or so every day. Sometimes it turns out to be less, or not at all. Ive just been doing it for a long time.

 

But I dont think I understand something. I get that what is fun for somebody, may not be fun for another. But are you implying that the reason you do Draco is because its fun for you? Or the most fun out of a handful of options that arent fun? If this is what you consider to be fun, then whats the problem? You are doing something you enjoy.

 

Either way, if all you are looking for is a change in scenery, perhaps the solar map rework will address your issue.

 

Edit: But dont you find it a little silly? That in order for you to play on a different map or do something a different way, DE has to force you to do it? If you dont enjoy Draco, what do you enjoy? If there is nothing else for you to do, then why still play?

No, I don't find it particularly silly. Getting good rewards—desirable rewards that feel like appropriate to the amount of effort expended to acquire them—is a major factor, for most people, in how much they enjoy playing a game. The way Warframe parcels out rewards makes the game less fun than it could be for many players, in large part because the best way to get many rewards—by a very wide margin—is to do one particularly mission type in one particular way.

 

Reward structure is pretty basic to game design. If the rewards are attractive, players will do the things necessary to get those rewards. I mean, what other point is there to having rewards in the first place, other than to encourage certain types of gameplay? The issue here—and it's an issue DE themselves has expressed some interest in addressing, or at least some frustration with the current state of affairs—is that the reward structure pushes the gameplay towards camping Draco. Why in the world would it be silly to advocate for that to be addressed?

Edited by motorfirebox
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As someone who doesnt like the gp nerf, i knew some players who are happy with the decision would ask this question lol

Everyone has their own opinion but asking why still play if you aint happy with the game? Meh..

Imo, nerfing gp wouldnt fix the issue like countless threads people will find another way to replace gmag.

 

I honestly could care less about the nerf or not. Its a junk augment to begin with. Yes, players will find another way to cheese the game, no doubt about it.

 

But seriously, there are people who sit there farming draco for months on end, complaining about how unhappy they are about it. I honestly want to know why they keep coming back to it if thats true.

 

No, I don't find it particularly silly. Getting good rewards—desirable rewards that feel like appropriate to the amount of effort expended to acquire them—is a major factor, for most people, in how much they enjoy playing a game. The way Warframe parcels out rewards makes the game less fun than it could be for many players, in large part because the best way to get many rewards—by a very wide margin—is to do one particularly mission type in one particular way.

 

Reward structure is pretty basic to game design. If the rewards are attractive, players will do the things necessary to get those rewards. I mean, what other point is there to having rewards in the first place, other than to encourage certain types of gameplay? The issue here—and it's an issue DE themselves has expressed some interest in addressing, or at least some frustration with the current state of affairs—is that the reward structure pushes the gameplay towards camping Draco. Why in the world would it be silly to advocate for that to be addressed?

 

What rewards exactly are so appealing in draco? Again, changing the rewards system can have a huge effect on monetary income. Its not something that can just be changed easily. People play draco, because its the "fastest" way to get whatever I guess. DE has already shown to take active steps in stopping it, probably because it disrupts the the flow of income. I can say without a doubt that it has massively disrupted the values of items in trading. Maxed vitality, redirection, and steel fiber used to be worth 300p each. Now its worth less than the effort to max it out in the first place. This is also why DE removed T4 keys as syndicate rewards, and changed it to some RNG nonsense. Most prime parts have flooded the trading market, and have also become worthless. Probably why ducat values were reduced as well now.

 

If you are asking for other missions to equal the value of Draco....  It'll never happen, and I would bet on expecting more structure to reduce the "effectiveness" of it in the future as well. Could things be done differently? Sure, and they very well may be done differently in the future too. But the people out there abusing the system, or im sorry, "effectively meta-farming", have done nothing but destroy our in-game economy, or what little there is of it to begin with. All for what? Instant gratification? So yeah, thats silly to me.

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I built Mag specifically so I could get Greedy Pull and help my clan farm once in a while. I've had it for just two weeks. We typically farm when there is something specific that someone needs; nobody particularly enjoys it, and being able to switch roles while doing it made it more tolerable. Even then we tend to go for a few rounds at a time, then switch to an alert or tower mission for variety. And even our farming was varied; we'd go to the mission that had the resources that someone was looking for. I've only done Draco once.

 

I didn't really like the idea of Greedy Pull at first, but what I found was that it really fostered team play. It was a great way to help other players level up their gear or help weaker players collect drops from hordes that would have been suicidal to approach (and not just on static defense missions). One thing it also fostered was communication -- sure the farming got boring, but while we were doing it we were talking: discussing the game, getting advice on how to mod things, deciding what we'd do next after helping the current players out, planning trades... It was a good way to get over the grindy aspects of the game while socializing. And honestly it is more fun to farm that way than to speed run a boss for Orokin cells over and over.

 

One of the things I like about Warframe is the ability for players to come up with novel gameplay tactics, and the variety of gameplay in general. The thing I like most is the community. I've never played an online game in which, after playing one mission together, a player will offer to trade a helpful item for free, and yet that happens constantly in Warframe. The pay-it-forward aspect is just awesome.

 

I think that greedy pull is just one of those tools that enhances team play. It's hard for me to see it as "abuse" when players come together and create a gameplay solution to help each other and have fun doing it. If it's cutting into platinum sales somehow, then I can understand. So, rather than nerf the tool, can you incentivize varied game play?

 

1. Factor the variety of missions played recently into the drop table or mission rewards, so that players are more likely to spice up their game play

2. Create more interesting gameplay opportunities/side quests in other missions (sort of like finding the caches in sabotage missions). For example, an optional capture alert or scan quest that pops up in the middle of an exterminate mission, with a separate reward for completing it.

3. More interactive environments - traps to kill bad guys, equipment that you can activate to distract mobs, environmental changes that hinder progress or require an object or tool to get around -- and reward you for doing them.

4. Move away from RNG to reduce farming success and/or improve reward variety -- if a group has already received some item, reduce the chance that item will apear in the next round (nothing worse than getting 3 forma blueprints in a row in a T4 Defense)

 

Anyway those are my two cents. I'm not up in arms about this, but I'm a bit disappointed that the effort I put in to get a team-based tool is now only good for myself.

 

I also want to say that I still enjoy the game immensely and that you have done a great job creating a passionate and generous community. Keep making Warframe better and thank you for the chance to give my input.

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What rewards exactly are so appealing in draco? Again, changing the rewards system can have a huge effect on monetary income. Its not something that can just be changed easily. People play draco, because its the "fastest" way to get whatever I guess. DE has already shown to take active steps in stopping it, probably because it disrupts the the flow of income. I can say without a doubt that it has massively disrupted the values of items in trading. Maxed vitality, redirection, and steel fiber used to be worth 300p each. Now its worth less than the effort to max it out in the first place. This is also why DE removed T4 keys as syndicate rewards, and changed it to some RNG nonsense. Most prime parts have flooded the trading market, and have also become worthless. Probably why ducat values were reduced as well now.

 

If you are asking for other missions to equal the value of Draco....  It'll never happen, and I would bet on expecting more structure to reduce the "effectiveness" of it in the future as well. Could things be done differently? Sure, and they very well may be done differently in the future too. But the people out there abusing the system, or im sorry, "effectively meta-farming", have done nothing but destroy our in-game economy, or what little there is of it to begin with. All for what? Instant gratification? So yeah, thats silly to me.

Dude. You're schizo. You're arguing against Draco-style farming one one hand, and saying it shouldn't be changed on the other. You're arguing that changing the current reward structure would destroy Warframe's monetization scheme, and that Draco—a big part of Warframe's current reward structure, by design or not—is destroying Warframe's monetization scheme.

 

And you don't get to brush off players' desire to level gear faster, as if it's some weird thing that nobody could possibly want. Again, this is a basic concept of game design. Rewards are there to guide the player to the behavior that the game designer wants the player to perform. You put the cheese at the end of the maze because you want the rat to run the maze. If you put the cheese in the middle of the maze, it's your own fault if the rats don't bother completing the maze. Acquisition of rewards, be it new weapons, customization options, or—as on Draco—plain ol' xp, is the main tool in the game developer's toolbox for dealing with players.

 

Telling players not to play Draco is telling players to ignore the reward structure that nearly every videogame in existence is built off of. 

 

That is silly.

Edited by motorfirebox

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Dude. You're schizo. You're arguing against Draco-style farming one one hand, and saying it shouldn't be changed on the other. You're arguing that changing the current reward structure would destroy Warframe's monetization scheme, and that Draco—a big part of Warframe's current reward structure, by design or not—is destroying Warframe's monetization scheme.

 

And you don't get to brush off players' desire to level gear faster, as if it's some weird thing that nobody could possibly want. Again, this is a basic concept of game design. Rewards are there to guide the player to the behavior that the game designer wants the player to perform. You put the cheese at the end of the maze because you want the rat to run the maze. If you put the cheese in the middle of the maze, it's your own fault if the rats don't bother completing the maze. Acquisition of rewards, be it new weapons, customization options, or—as on Draco—plain ol' xp, is the main tool in the game developer's toolbox for dealing with players.

 

Telling players not to play Draco is telling players to ignore the reward structure that nearly every videogame in existence is built off of.

 

That is silly.

 

Never once did I say it shouldnt be changed. I specifically said that Draco is not intended behavior of the game designer, and that things can, and may possibly change in the future. However, making everything as easy as Draco farming is not the answer. The fact that Draco exists the way it does IS DE's failure. They have allowed it to get to the point that it is, even after setting such low daily XP caps. So yes, I agree that whatever is resulting from it is their own fault, and they should have controlled it properly from the start.

 

I disagree with your last statement though. Im not telling players to not play draco. Im telling them to use their heads and think. If I offered $1 million dollars to anybody who sits in a burning car for 1 hour with nothing  to help you, no fire suit, no nothing.... how many people do you think would do it? Hopefully no one. The danger is obvious enough for people to make a "smart" decision about the matter. But if DE says they are releasing Excalibur prime today for purchase, but if anybody buys him, the servers will be shut down in 7 days, and the game will no longer be supported..... what do you think is gonna happen?

 

I would say people would be enjoying their excalibur primes for 7 days, and then whine and cry that the game gets shut down or whatever, just like they do now when they abuse the system in the ways that they do, and DE has to come and nerf something to stop them from doing it. As if they didnt get the hint the first time around. Like you said, mindless rats in a maze. Im not asking anybody to "get gud". Play how you want to play. What im asking is for everybody to stop being mindless test subjects scurrying to the closest chunk of cheese. Because every time you go for it, the maze changes and it only gets worse.

 

Get out of the maze.

Edited by Faulcun
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there are people who sit there farming draco for months on end, complaining about how unhappy they are about it. I honestly want to know why they keep coming back to it if thats true.

 

 People play draco, because its the "fastest" way to get whatever I guess.

 

But the people out there abusing the system, or im sorry, "effectively meta-farming", have done nothing but destroy our in-game economy, or what little there is of it to begin with. All for what? Instant gratification? So yeah, thats silly to me.

 

Im telling them to use their heads and think

 

If you dont enjoy Draco, what do you enjoy? If there is nothing else for you to do, then why still play?

 

Dude your not getting the point, most of the comments are about people not happy with the gp mag nerf thus affecting draco. 

 

But you keep on directing it to the person or THEM instead of the topic itself. We get it you agree with the changes. Now we are not. Now stop directing the topic to THEM and let us voice our own opinions. 

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Never once did I say it shouldnt be changed. I specifically said that Draco is not intended behavior of the game designer, and that things can, and may possibly change in the future. However, making everything as easy as Draco farming is not the answer. The fact that Draco exists the way it does IS DE's failure. They have allowed it to get to the point that it is, even after setting such low daily XP caps. So yes, I agree that whatever is resulting from it is their own fault, and they should have controlled it properly from the start.

 

I disagree with your last statement though. Im not telling players to not play draco. Im telling them to use their heads and think. If I offered $1 million dollars to anybody who sits in a burning car for 1 hour with nothing  to help you, no fire suit, no nothing.... how many people do you think would do it? Hopefully no one. The danger is obvious enough for people to make a "smart" decision about the matter. But if DE says they are releasing Excalibur prime today for purchase, but if anybody buys him, the servers will be shut down in 7 days, and the game will no longer be supported..... what do you think is gonna happen?

 

I would say people would be enjoying their excalibur primes for 7 days, and then whine and cry that the game gets shut down or whatever, just like they do now when they abuse the system in the ways that they do, and DE has to come and nerf something to stop them from doing it. As if they didnt get the hint the first time around. Like you said, mindless rats in a maze. Im not asking anybody to "get gud". Play how you want to play. What im asking is for everybody to stop being mindless test subjects scurrying to the closest chunk of cheese. Because every time you go for it, the maze changes and it only gets worse.

 

Get out of the maze.

Oh, come off it. You play the game the way you like, and the current problems with Draco don't affect you. That's fine for you. It's not fine for a significant chunk of the player base.

 

The fact you refuse to recognize is that in-game rewards are part of the game. They are, and are intended to be, a direct and integral incentive to gameplay. "Get out of the maze" is really terrible advice when running the maze is, on the part of the game designers and the vast majority of those who play, the point. Hey, Mario, if you don't find rescuing princesses to be rewarding, just stop stomping on koopas! Hey, Sonic, if rings aren't  your thing, just stop collecting them! 

 

Warframe is not some open-world sandbox where the reward for playing is getting to do whatever zany thing you can come up with. You can play it like that—you can play it however you want—but it is not set up for or intended to support that type of gameplay. It has a fairly traditional "kill guys to get loot to kill guys" reward structure. That's the basic loop that is intended, by design, to keep players interested. The key to making it work, from a design standpoint, is to make sure that the "get loot" end of the loop is proportional to the "kill guys" end of the loop. The goal on the part of the players is to perform the loop as efficiently as possible—to get the rewards, which the game encourages them to get, as quickly as possible. 

 

If you don't want to do that, if you want to play inefficiently because you find it more enjoyable, that's you. Do your thing. But it is beyond the pale to expect everyone else to ignore the work-reward loop that is built into the structure of the game. I mean, seriously: we all agree that Draco is a breakage in the loop—a breakage you seem to mostly blame players for. And the solution you offer... is to tell players to break the loop in another way, by ignoring the rewards that are being offered.

 

It is not the job of players to pretend the work-reward loop isn't busted. Working through that loop is, by design, pretty much the whole point. If there is serious breakage, it is on DE to fix it. They have all the power to modify any player behavior they don't like, by adjusting the incentives that drive that behavior.

 

 

Solving Draco is going to mean working from both sides. Draco and other endless missions offer way too much reward for the amount of effort involved. Other mission types offer way too little. There's a lot of Goldilocksing that needs to happen.

Edited by motorfirebox
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Dude your not getting the point, most of the comments are about people not happy with the gp mag nerf thus affecting draco. 

 

But you keep on directing it to the person or THEM instead of the topic itself. We get it you agree with the changes. Now we are not. Now stop directing the topic to THEM and let us voice our own opinions. 

 

If you think this is simply about a mod, and not about the playerbase and the way they use it, then you might want to do some more reading.

 

Oh, come off it. You play the game the way you like, and the current problems with Draco don't affect you. That's fine for you. It's not fine for a significant chunk of the player base.

 

The fact you refuse to recognize is that in-game rewards are part of the game. They are, and are intended to be, a direct and integral incentive to gameplay. "Get out of the maze" is really terrible advice when running the maze is, on the part of the game designers and the vast majority of those who play, the point. Hey, Mario, if you don't find rescuing princesses to be rewarding, just stop stomping on koopas! Hey, Sonic, if rings aren't  your thing, just stop collecting them! 

 

Warframe is not some open-world sandbox where the reward for playing is getting to do whatever zany thing you can come up with. You can play it like that—you can play it however you want—but it is not set up for or intended to support that type of gameplay. It has a fairly traditional "kill guys to get loot to kill guys" reward structure. That's the basic loop that is intended, by design, to keep players interested. The key to making it work, from a design standpoint, is to make sure that the "get loot" end of the loop is proportional to the "kill guys" end of the loop. The goal on the part of the players is to perform the loop as efficiently as possible—to get the rewards, which the game encourages them to get, as quickly as possible. 

 

If you don't want to do that, if you want to play inefficiently because you find it more enjoyable, that's you. Do your thing. But it is beyond the pale to expect everyone else to ignore the work-reward loop that is built into the structure of the game. I mean, seriously: we all agree that Draco is a breakage in the loop—a breakage you seem to mostly blame players for. And the solution you offer... is to tell players to break the loop in another way, by ignoring the rewards that are being offered.

 

It is not the job of players to pretend the work-reward loop isn't busted. Working through that loop is, by design, pretty much the whole point. If there is serious breakage, it is on DE to fix it. They have all the power to modify any player behavior they don't like, by adjusting the incentives that drive that behavior.

 

 

Solving Draco is going to mean working from both sides. Draco and other endless missions offer way too much reward for the amount of effort involved. Other mission types offer way too little. There's a lot of Goldilocksing that needs to happen.

 

I have no argument against this. I agree with it completely except for one thing. It does affect me. It affects all of us. The actions of the many affect all of us whether we participate in the same activities or not.

 

Im not failing to recognize the reward system. Im simply stating that abusing something that is admittedly broken, doesnt make it better. It makes things worse. And it will continue to get worse until DE decides enough is enough.

 

What you are failing to see, is that this maze isnt the game. The game is a simple ladder that is relatively easy to climb no matter how you do it. Like you said yourself, "kill guys to get loot to kill guys". Simple. The maze is what people are calling this "meta-game" where new players are taught to use gmag/mesa for everything, or rhino prime/boltor prime/soma prime is all you need to win at anything, or that a nekros is only good for desecrate, or min/max your loadout for bladestorm because all the rest of ash's powers suck, or Ember/Trinity/Volt are worthless because of "reasons".... This is the maze. An ocean of bad advise and information, which ultimately affect all of us.

 

I firmly blame DE, not the playerbase. Its completely their fault for pandering to childish behavior. However, you cannot look at this objectively without holding the playerbase responsible for their own actions. We all know littering is bad. We throw a wrapper on the ground and think nothing more of it. But just because it might take a while, doesnt mean bad things or negative consequences dont happen. And when we do get caught, and we get slapped with a $1000 fine, we want to get all pissy about it even though we know we asked for it with two open hands.

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If you think this is simply about a mod, and not about the playerbase and the way they use it, then you might want to do some more reading.

 

 

I firmly blame DE, not the playerbase. Its completely their fault for pandering to childish behavior. However, you cannot look at this objectively without holding the playerbase responsible for their own actions. We all know littering is bad. We throw a wrapper on the ground and think nothing more of it. But just because it might take a while, doesnt mean bad things or negative consequences dont happen. And when we do get caught, and we get slapped with a $1000 fine, we want to get all pissy about it even though we know we asked for it with two open hands.

 

 Topic itself says information about the MOD Greedy pull. I don't know why we need to go as far as some maze, littering and car comparisons here since we are only talking the nerf on gmag. And again, you like to direct your point on someone (DE then objectively without holding the playerbase wth), this is a forum not a debate. 

 

 DE wanted to nerf his gp mod because they didn't want us to camp. Of which did not solve the problem because mag was just replaced by Trin in Draco. And you can still camp in survival missions with vauban and trin. 

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I thought about it, and it would have made more sense to just stop gpull from effecting energy.

 

I dont think that providing the energy by gmag was the problem itself since trinity does exactly same thing but rather it was how it does that, trninty must find enemy to be able to provide energy which means it must move around the level, so if gmag also had to move then I think it would be good enough nerf.

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 Topic itself says information about the MOD Greedy pull. I don't know why we need to go as far as some maze, littering and car comparisons here since we are only talking the nerf on gmag. And again, you like to direct your point on someone (DE then objectively without holding the playerbase wth), this is a forum not a debate. 

 

 DE wanted to nerf his gp mod because they didn't want us to camp. Of which did not solve the problem because mag was just replaced by Trin in Draco. And you can still camp in survival missions with vauban and trin. 

 

Im sorry you dont approve of my metaphors. Ill simplify it for you.

 

Dont be bad.

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If you think this is simply about a mod, and not about the playerbase and the way they use it, then you might want to do some more reading.

 

 

I have no argument against this. I agree with it completely except for one thing. It does affect me. It affects all of us. The actions of the many affect all of us whether we participate in the same activities or not.

 

Im not failing to recognize the reward system. Im simply stating that abusing something that is admittedly broken, doesnt make it better. It makes things worse. And it will continue to get worse until DE decides enough is enough.

 

What you are failing to see, is that this maze isnt the game. The game is a simple ladder that is relatively easy to climb no matter how you do it. Like you said yourself, "kill guys to get loot to kill guys". Simple. The maze is what people are calling this "meta-game" where new players are taught to use gmag/mesa for everything, or rhino prime/boltor prime/soma prime is all you need to win at anything, or that a nekros is only good for desecrate, or min/max your loadout for bladestorm because all the rest of ash's powers suck, or Ember/Trinity/Volt are worthless because of "reasons".... This is the maze. An ocean of bad advise and information, which ultimately affect all of us.

 

I firmly blame DE, not the playerbase. Its completely their fault for pandering to childish behavior. However, you cannot look at this objectively without holding the playerbase responsible for their own actions. We all know littering is bad. We throw a wrapper on the ground and think nothing more of it. But just because it might take a while, doesnt mean bad things or negative consequences dont happen. And when we do get caught, and we get slapped with a $1000 fine, we want to get all pissy about it even though we know we asked for it with two open hands.

Ugh dude seriously? I like doing 1 draco game that maxed out frames and weapons from 0 to 30. I as the player should have the ability to level up the most effecient way possible. Even more if its to level a weapon thats just crap and its there for mastery fodder. yet you have a problem with that, why do you have a problem with that? why must you tred on my way of progressing by builds because you dont like it? I dont like how you level up your stuff, that S#&$ sounds like it takes hours to do for 1 gun at a time. But do you see me, asking for nerfs, bashing on your play method of leveling? no i dont. Draco may not be fun but god damn its @(*()$ satisfying knowing your gear is done leveing and in so much less time. I honestly dont understand why ppl hate draco so much, just dont @(*()$ play it, let other people play it the way they want.

 

its like saying you hate big youtubers because they make alot money doing nothing but playing games, that it should be banned and you dont agree with that method. that they should go out into the working force and put up with the long hours for short and S#&$ty pay like the rest of us do. why should anyone have to play a slower, less effecient way to level up gear? if they want to go that route like you have GREAT!!!!!!! if They dont and want to play smart over hard and do draco to level theyre stuff or whatever else that is just as effecient then GREAT FOR THEM TOO!!!!

 

lesson of the day kids, just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean you should take it away from others who enjoy or benifit from it that has no direct affect on you. Almost feels like the whole gay marrage thing but guess what people realize "hey why the F*** should my opinion stop others from doing what they want?"

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Ugh dude seriously? I like doing 1 draco game that maxed out frames and weapons from 0 to 30. I as the player should have the ability to level up the most effecient way possible. Even more if its to level a weapon thats just crap and its there for mastery fodder. yet you have a problem with that, why do you have a problem with that? why must you tred on my way of progressing by builds because you dont like it? I dont like how you level up your stuff, that S#&$ sounds like it takes hours to do for 1 gun at a time. But do you see me, asking for nerfs, bashing on your play method of leveling? no i dont. Draco may not be fun but god damn its @(*()$ satisfying knowing your gear is done leveing and in so much less time. I honestly dont understand why ppl hate draco so much, just dont @(*()$ play it, let other people play it the way they want.

 

its like saying you hate big youtubers because they make alot money doing nothing but playing games, that it should be banned and you dont agree with that method. that they should go out into the working force and put up with the long hours for short and S#&$ty pay like the rest of us do. why should anyone have to play a slower, less effecient way to level up gear? if they want to go that route like you have GREAT!!!!!!! if They dont and want to play smart over hard and do draco to level theyre stuff or whatever else that is just as effecient then GREAT FOR THEM TOO!!!!

 

lesson of the day kids, just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean you should take it away from others who enjoy or benifit from it that has no direct affect on you. Almost feels like the whole gay marrage thing but guess what people realize "hey why the F*** should my opinion stop others from doing what they want?"

 

Lets focus on the bold/underlined part, because that seems to be your main point. I disagree with draco farming because it does affect every single player. Directly, or indirectly, it affects everybody the same.

 

Lets look at some of those things:

 

The market is flooded with syndicate weapons/mods that are worth crap now, because of draco farming.

The market is flooded with regular mods like vitality/redirection/steel fiber, that are maxed out and worth nothing because of cores gained from draco farming.

rep points were capped and reduced TWICE because of draco farming.

T4 keys were removed as a direct choice from syndicate rewards because of draco farming.

Entire maps were changed or removed multiple times, because of viver/draco farming.

The market is flooded with prime parts, which are mostly worthless now, from all the keys bought though syndicate from draco farming.

Trinity, excalibur, and other frames were nerfed or altered multiple times because of viver/draco farming.

Now an augment is being altered because of draco farming.

Entire game modes, and spawn logic were changed because of viver/draco farming.

 

Those are merely the things I can remember off the top of my head. So what if I liked greedy pull as a team supportive augment for things other than farming, or what if I never farmed for rep points but still managed to max out my daily by purely helping clan members? Doesnt matter, because abusive farming has caused it to be changed whether I like it or not or participated in it or not. THIS is why I disapprove. We have all been punished because of YOUR actions. Not to mention DE has their own reasons for removing this kind of abuse, and have made it quite clear that THEY disapprove as well.

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I dont think that providing the energy by gmag was the problem itself since trinity does exactly same thing but rather it was how it does that, trninty must find enemy to be able to provide energy which means it must move around the level, so if gmag also had to move then I think it would be good enough nerf.

If mag had to move to gpull, then what would be the point of gpulling? If you didnt gpull energy, it would mean that it wouldnt be able to provide near endless energy to frames like messa, which was realy the issue.

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