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After thinking, all that's going to happen now is -range +duration modded Cataclysm with Mesa and Trinity. The rift has a significant impact on mesa's drain rate and makes the whole team "invincible" meanwhile mesa can just pause firing for 2 seconds (safe in the rift) and trinity casts vampire on a target outside the rift. All that's going to happen is we trade off some ease of use in order to gain invincibility since Mesa no longer needs to pick up orbs.

yup

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I think this nerf for Mag is little ott it essentially makes mag a solo runner, and in a game that encourages group play taking away a support role seems abit odd. I know the ability can be spammed and as you guys said in your stream it is the most used ability at the moment.

 

Why take something the community is using the way you intended it to be used as then nerf it?  If its intended use was never meant to end up as a support role the Augment for mag should never have been introduced, I have only run once with a Greedy Mag and i saw how much of a difference it can make to a team especially when hunting gear in the Void, With how valuable Tier 4 Defense keys a Greedy Mag really helps a team go past wave 20, not because its sucking in energy and health (I have restore plates for all that) but because it stops the unnecessary deaths caused by venturing out to pick up drops, yes i can do the old leave one mob alive and then do pick ups but i'm there to shoot things. 

 

The other thing which isn't as big as killing a warframe for group elements is that we go back to seeing a carrier on every warframe, I know there is a kubrow coming out that does the same trick but all i see for high tier runs is alot of revives unless the kubrow comes with a personal cloak for when it ventures out of our protection radius so alot of players will stick with carrier which is a tad bit sad as there is alot of good companions but we are left to one due to needing a quick pick up time rather than individuality.

 

Thats my two cents hope you guys have a read and offer some feedback,

 

Good Hunting out there Tenno 

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I don't get it...

 

For so many, co-op = boring as hell. Standing in one place doing nothing but mashing buttons. How is THAT fun?

 

About 95% of what I see on Recruiting is 'DRACO LF GMAG AND 2 MESA NO ONE ELSE NEED APPLY!'

 

I unlocked Draco way back when, before Interception went live. I tried it a while back and just about went out of my mind from the sheer boredom. I stood in 1 place for 45 minutes, clicking 3 every time Snow Globe went down and did NOTHING else. BARF!

 

For others, co-op = stupid. Trolls in raids, door heroes, rushers, ultracompletionists who cannot leave a single locker unchecked, whatever. Doesn't matter. The game is not about playing with other players, the game is about screwing other players as fast, as often and as hard as you can.

 

Why can there not be a middle ground? Some kind of co-op that is actually cooperative and REWARDS people playing as a team?

 

Right now the only rewards are boredom and angst. Not good.

Edited by Kalenath
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I don't get it...

 

For so many, co-op = boring as hell. Standing in one place doing nothing but mashing buttons. How is THAT fun?

 

About 95% of what I see on Recruiting is 'DRACO LF GMAG AND 2 MESA NO ONE ELSE NEED APPLY!'

 

I unlocked Draco way back when, before Interception went live. I tried it a while back and just about went out of my mind from the sheer boredom. I stood in 1 place for 45 minutes, clicking 3 every time Snow Globe went down and did NOTHING else. BARF!

 

For others, co-op = stupid. Trolls in raids, door heroes, rushers, ultracompletionists who cannot leave a single locker unchecked, whatever. Doesn't matter. The game is not about playing with other players, the game is about screwing other players as fast, as often and as hard as you can.

 

Why can there not be a middle ground?

whilst i do run mesa i mainly run her because of shatter shield and shooting gallery, shatter shield is great when i'm needing to revive a downed teammate and with the Augment for shooting gallery works really well as support class, i wont lie and say i dont use peacemaker but i dont use it as an end all ability i have guns and a beasty sword that i am happier to bomb about with, for me peacemaker is used to clear a room of mobs if im needing to do it very quickly otherwise my vakyor marelok is my weapon of choice for ranged encounters.

 

i'm not going to kid myself and say all mesa runners have her because shes fun to run with but not all of us use her and expect others to feed us energy. i ran a t3d once with randoms and all they wanted me to do was spam peacemaker, most boring run of my life..... 

 

ps i know we have gone off topic about mag, not sure if mesa should have its own discussion.

Edited by (XB1)A YorkshireZulu
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Yes Mag was abused by old and new players alike for farming with a Mesa or Excal or whatever and I admit I did it a few months ago myself, but got tired of it quickly and hardly ever do it now. I got tired of seeing Gmag and Mesa in all levels of Void defense and nothing else was allowed.

 

Yet, there was another aspect to Mag that was as a Corpus / Void killer that I enjoyed a lot and so I would build for Shield Polarise with the augment for it and used to love being really tanky and damaging on any Corpus or Void tileset. I also found that Greedy Pull helped a lot since using a Shield Polarise with Blind Rage on would be quite inefficient considering Mag's 150 energy pool and so the augment helped refill my energy almost instantly by pulling those orbs and resources to me.

 

BUT what was most important to me was that along with helping myself refill energy after killing stuff I was ALSO helping my teammates gain energy and resources, which is why I play a COOP game. Now if this change/nerf comes into effect there will be none of that, I will most probably use mag only for Triton type maps where she will be most useful. Otherwise in Void tilesets there are better frames to go for, since after a point even SP does nothing due to exponential armor scaling. Maybe if the whole team had CP's it would still be effective.

 

My point is not every player abuses Gmag and it is useful in more stationary game modes like T4 defense or MD since at those high levels no one except the most experienced players will want to step out of Frost's globe or Limbo's cata and risk dying a horrible death and impeding the team. I also loved helping new players get resources by collecting all of them in a nice little pile near us.

 

My advice leave the functionality in for Greedy Pull as it is, just reduce the range or amount of items or duration between each Greedy Pull so that all pulls are not Greedy, like every 20 seconds for example. This will make it function less as a spammable technique and still leave the usability in.

Edited by Sci_Ant
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Kinda kills the the COOPERATION aspect of this supposedly COOP game. Just saying. I mean this is a slippery slope. Next will be Snowglobe only affecting Frost. Or Blessing only affecting Trinity. I know I'm reaching, it's an augment not the base ability, blahblahblah, but still, food for thought devs... This could devolve into something very ugly.

^ This post needs more recognition... He is right.

 

A Good Fix for GPull would've been making it that other players still have to physically pick the loot up (By pressing x x x x x x x x x x, You know, like if you left your Mesa in 1 spot for too long without moving).

That way its still useful as a co-op function and it still creates a stall in the flow of the gameplay so players arnt idly standing about anymore.

 

This GPull change is just going to revert back to Trinity, Frost, Mesa, Nova all with Energy Restores in their Gears... 

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Why take something the community is using the way you intended it to be used as then nerf it?

Its intended use was never 'automate the game like Cookie Clicker'.

 

Its intended use was to create a supply chain for Tenno who are actually playing the game - for example, moving pickups between rooms in a survival, or as you mentioned, carrying resources to the one safe spot in a sea of overwhelming force. That's how I use the augment, but that's not what GMAG MESA FROST NEKROS ONLY DRACO uses it for.

 

Because no, people decided not to do that, instead opting to stand on boxes and mash buttons. Constantly. Occasionally rolling to stop the AFK timer, which grows progressively worse with every update in a futile attempt to stop this behavior.

 

This is why we can't have nice things. Players cheese. DE nerfs. Players cheese harder. DE nerfs harder. Repeat ad nauseam. Meanwhile DE can't fix all the other methods of playing the game to actually be profitable, because they know that with the kit we have now, players would just cheese that too - or complain that they can't sit in one place passively accreting loot anymore. And so the cycle of "nerf hammer versus entire playerbase" continues.

 

Don't get me wrong. It's a bad band-aid. But it's not as if the community has left them with much choice, now, has it?

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This would definitely solve the issue, but I'm not sure people will take too kindly to it. 

Though, to be fair, it IS called Greedy Pull.

 

it will solve nothing and the vast majority of people, who are NOT on the forums to tell their opinion, are going to hate it, warning warning, ****storm incoming.

PS: it will never stop amusing me, to see companies and some players alike to think, they get the "most popular opinion" on forums, even reddit is worthless in that case

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it will solve nothing and the vast majority of people, who are NOT on the forums to tell their opinion, are going to hate it, warning warning, ****storm incoming.

PS: it will never stop amusing me, to see companies and some players alike to think, they get the "most popular opinion" on forums, even reddit is worthless in that case

yeah, most old players never stay on forums, they rather play and not cry on forums for stupid useless stuff... mostly new ones  are on forums talking about nerfs and since there is almost nobody to disagree DE chooses the majority... i think that it would be better to make a voting thread everytime people want to nerf something and announce it with a red text in game to make people that don`t visit forums  to at least vote when it`s something important... i play this game for almost 2y and i barely even open the forum but since atm i can`t play much i have time to read and i think most old players do the same.

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Grind is a problem, not Mag or Mesa.

people that cry about theese things don`t seem to realise that... i personally think it`s fine to have fast way of gaining exp for warframe/wep since they need to be formad few times to actually be usefull... i play mostly  long runs so uranked or unfinished weapons/frames  are out of the question in those missions... i rather max  them fast so i can actually use them or if they aren`t good like a lot of weapons aren`t atm i just rank them fast for mastery... point is if the weps/frames didn`t need so many formas i wouldn`t mind going the hard way but with the current need of formas and leveling i think a fast grind is fine...

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Aaaand... mag is swiftly relegated to trash tier again as soon as this is implemented, never to be used again by most players.

 

GG

 

Edit: Devs, do you guys actually play your own game?  I mean actually play it without dev cheats on.  Starting out as a lowly rank zero, earning your mods and upgrades in PvE the way regular players do, etc?  [DE]Glen did, DERebecca did.  I know Glen did it without getting free carries from high end players all the time, and he's a pretty good player of the game that he works on.  Maaaaaybe you others should try the same to get a realistic handle on what it's like?  I think most of you devs seem... a little out of touch.  Just letting you know what people are saying outside of the game, and the impression a lot of your choices give.  I get to hear this quite a bit from players who left the game.

 

Glen is good enough and has enough of a grasp of the game that he GETS ONTO THE LEADERBOARDS through legit play.  He's also notable for making gameplay changes that the vast majority of players like or are at least neutral about.

 

Why aren't more of the devs playing their own game?

Edited by DeMeritus
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Well, it was good while ot lasted, and i doubt DE will change their mind.

If we're still talking about Mag, then DE should make those annoying clouds after Shield Polarize disipate faster, it would be really great.

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It would've been a better change to counter Mesa, but honestly it'd still just make Mag mandatory for farming groups so long as you can set up one "safe" area (like min-Range Cataclysm) for everyone to hole up in.

Oh, I agree.  But everyone was so focused on nerfing this augment over seeing the bigger picture. : /

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This change removes the team viability, shuch leqds to mag hitting the trash bin for a large part of the playerbase again.

It wasn't an OP mod, just a glorified carrier role for a frame.

I don't realy use greedy mag that often, on my triton runs i use thw shield augment instead.

Its just anoying to risk missing good drops cause you didn't run over all the bodies. And walking over all the bidies can be quite tedious as a 40 minute survival usualy racks up 1000+ of thwm per member of the team. Having to walk over every single one to be certain you got all the stuff is a nion impossible task.

This is the reason why greedy pull and carrier are so overused. People don't like missing things.

I understand the nerf to the augment, but it won't affect farming methods much.

Personaly i'd rather see greedy pull gets replaced though.

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So much negativity outside of the nerf itself. As someone who mains Mag I don't tell my teams to stay in place, they're free to move about and destroy the enemy as they please. They only come back to our "safe zone" to restock on energy/health/ammo/loot (and this was before Greedy Pull). I'll admit I've pulled one spot missions like that (T4 Def, ODS, Void survivals because of the stupid C rewards) but that's only when we decide to play campers and farmers. I'm holding my own just fine playing hit and run with enemies.

 

New players thinking that's her only use are a sad thing to see (Pull was all I used at the start back in 13.7 until I got better and learned to mod). BA even has its uses (decent range/duration on Heavy Gunners and Bombards with an entourage = lulz). Mag isn't dead unless they nerf the rest of her abilities. Shield Polarize is one of my go-to choices for CC in the Void thanks to the Drones though Nullifiers are the bane of my existence no matter which frame I bring. I'm all for running and gunning but the fact that the augment will only benefit me while my team has to scrounge for loot feels like the complete opposite of how it should work.

Something I would like to see is the Shield Polarize augment working for the whole team.
Mag isn't dead... But the one-trick pony ideology needs to be.

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