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why make mag useless again to team play, why didnt you just removeto option to pull energy health and life support?

like seriously??? that's all you needed to do to balance the greedy pull, its not even that complicated to come up withO_O

remove what is more important? i`m not talking about farming/camping but in a long survival or def i like to use greedy pull just to get those extra energy/health orbs scattered around... it makes mags life easyer and also good for the team... i don`t always play mag so having one in squad that pull everything is nice, instead of running around to grabb all the loot it saves some time to just find the pile of energy/health and other loot, it gives time to focus more on the enemies... "there is carrier to loot faster" all say that not knowing that in most long runs it buggs out thus making the player useless since he`s blinded by all the loot he can`t pickup or simply just getting killed because run out of ammo and energy and you can`t pickup... now people would say "you can use restores", yeah i can use restores but spamming all those restores because of a bugg is just pointless... so my point is greedy pull is fine as it is... people just cry about it because they either use or se others use it just for  stand still grind/ camp but it can be used  in many other ways... at high levels  enemies always start ganging up since they are harder to kill so pulling energy for s little CC when you are on low energy is very nice or pull health orbs when you are in a bad situation is again very nice, that way you don`t have to spam restores wich need farming for ressources at a point and i really hate farming ressources.

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Its intended use was never 'automate the game like Cookie Clicker'.

 

Its intended use was to create a supply chain for Tenno who are actually playing the game - for example, moving pickups between rooms in a survival, or as you mentioned, carrying resources to the one safe spot in a sea of overwhelming force. That's how I use the augment, but that's not what GMAG MESA FROST NEKROS ONLY DRACO uses it for.

 

Because no, people decided not to do that, instead opting to stand on boxes and mash buttons. Constantly. Occasionally rolling to stop the AFK timer, which grows progressively worse with every update in a futile attempt to stop this behavior.

 

This is why we can't have nice things. Players cheese. DE nerfs. Players cheese harder. DE nerfs harder. Repeat ad nauseam. Meanwhile DE can't fix all the other methods of playing the game to actually be profitable, because they know that with the kit we have now, players would just cheese that too - or complain that they can't sit in one place passively accreting loot anymore. And so the cycle of "nerf hammer versus entire playerbase" continues.

 

Don't get me wrong. It's a bad band-aid. But it's not as if the community has left them with much choice, now, has it?

 

I agree, i should have worded it a tad better. For those not spamming the ability for a static team they are using it as intended. 

 

My opinion when i first heard of mag nerf was why what the hell but after the feedback of well we will just change to our old static farms i slightly agree with this nerf but i am also slightly confused, if these runs existed before why now all of a sudden do we see a nerf on a single warframe?? 

 

Sadly no the community hasn't left them much of a choice by taking an ability and exploiting it for a mindless grind, the proper players will suffer but alas this is the way of the nerf hammer. I do see why DE wants to gets this nerf out of the way but as alot have said there is plenty of ways to do the static mind numbing farms.....  

 

To be honest i'd rather see the farm locations removed or the drop rates changed rather than changing a warframe, drastic but will teach us not become boring robots that hold a trigger or watch and wait for a decent drop. I know it will impact bigger on some of the players as they will see the grind become even harder but i cant really see a way of deterring players of static grinding, its either make the drops better so a static grind becomes pointless or push the drop rates so its ridiculously hard even if your static grinding or get rid of the location completely and spread the drops between other locations. 

 

i'm pretty sure DE looked into other options but nerfing an augment probably looks likes the best option its just a massive shame it impacts on a warframe as whole because of how this augment can greatly benefit a whole team. 

Edited by (XB1)A YorkshireZulu
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To be honest i'd rather see the farm locations removed or the drop rates changed rather than changing a warframe, drastic but will teach us not become boring robots that hold a trigger or watch and wait for a decent drop. I know it will impact bigger on some of the players as they will see the grind become even harder but i cant really see a way of deterring players of static grinding, its either make the drops better so a static grind becomes pointless or push the drop rates so its ridiculously hard even if your static grinding or get rid of the location completely and spread the drops between other locations.

Why we can't have nice things. Again.

 

NERF the drop rates, though? That's insane. The game has all this static farming because the drop rates are so bad to begin with. It'll just make people quit or meta harder. Making drop rates better and reducing cheese (on both sides - if we can't OP 4-to-win entire armies all the time, there's no need for Nullifiers or stackable Ancient auras x10 to even exist at all) would help.

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  • Greedy Pull will only pull items for the Ability caster (like how Carrier's Vacuum only applies to the owner).
This will render the mod absolute trash tier for TEAM PLAY.
 
  • Greedy Pull will still pull items as it does now - no Line of Sight checks will be included.

Instead you SHOULD add the los check. Make the Mag WORK hard for their team. 

Edited by voodoo-EGT-
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@ everyone saying RIP Mag RIP teamplay "This solves nothing" and "Grind is the problem". I say this. DE, please fix mesa's peacemaker to not auto aim without at least some mouse input (conal selection seems best) next, ty.

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@ everyone saying RIP Mag RIP teamplay "This solves nothing" and "Grind is the problem". I say this. DE, please fix mesa's peacemaker to not auto aim without at least some mouse input (conal selection seems best) next, ty.

^This is why we can't have nice things...

 

Why stop there... Why not move on to Frosts Globe only Protects Frost (Please guys no standing around in a Frost Globe... Standing around isnt considered fulfilling a roll by some.

 

Nekros Desecrate should have LoS & Frontal Cone penalties too ?

 

Vaubans Vortex shouldnt suck in loot ? pls guys no loot all in 1 spot its considered bad by some...

 

Nova's MP Should totally have an upper limit of enemies that can be Primed at once right ? Because elseways you just have to stand in 1 place and shoot 1 mob... While we're at it lets give it a LoS check too.

 

Any of this making sense to you ?

Me Neither... Each Frame has 1 thing that they are special for.. Loki makes any Mission that isnt SV or Defence Trivial... 

Limbo does limbo things... Ember pwns Infested, Saryn pwns damn near everything.

But we should totally whine like children till they Nerf them all right ?

 

Fix the damn Grind and stop nerfing the players... 

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^This is why we can't have nice things...

 

Why stop there... Why not move on to Frosts Globe only Protects Frost (Please guys no standing around in a Frost Globe... Standing around isnt considered fulfilling a roll by some.

 

Nekros Desecrate should have LoS & Frontal Cone penalties too ?

 

Vaubans Vortex shouldnt suck in loot ? pls guys no loot all in 1 spot its considered bad by some...

 

Nova's MP Should totally have an upper limit of enemies that can be Primed at once right ? Because elseways you just have to stand in 1 place and shoot 1 mob... While we're at it lets give it a LoS check too.

 

Any of this making sense to you ?

Me Neither... Each Frame has 1 thing that they are special for.. Loki makes any Mission that isnt SV or Defence Trivial... 

Limbo does limbo things... Ember pwns Infested, Saryn pwns damn near everything.

But we should totally whine like children till they Nerf them all right ?

 

Fix the damn Grind and stop nerfing the players... 

^ This is why these issues arise in the first place. There is a difference between a skill COMPLETELY PLAYING THE GAME FOR YOU and Frost's bubble keeping you from getting shot. People can literally afk with Mesa, you can't afk with Frost. You can't afk with Nova, you can't afk with Nekros, or Ember, or Limbo, or ANYONE ELSE. Only Mesa. The other frames sure all have issues of balance where some things need to be tamed back or altered, and other things that need serious buffing. What Mesa does isn't reducing the grind- it is eliminating all gameplay completely. Holding left mouse click for 5 minutes is not PLAYING. When are you guys gonna even TRY to understand this. The grind is only an issue if you decide it is. Nothing is forcing you to try to complete everything as fast as possible. You have all the time in the world- the game isn't gonna disappear. Everyone is screaming "fix the grind, nerf the grind not the players!" but it's complete nonsense. What Draco farmers want is not a NERF of the grind, or to have to to a "more bearable point" what they WANT is for everything to just be given to you without any work whatsoever. If they nerf the grind, people will STILL want them to nerf the grind. There is no end to it- because they are LAZY. These "nerfs" happen because people always abuse everything they can- they are GREEDY, just like the name of the mod.

 

GRIND HAS TO EXIST IN A F2P GAME. IF GRIND DOESN'T EXIST, PEOPLE DON'T SPEND MONEY. IF PEOPLE DON'T SPEND MONEY, DE HAS NO REASON TO MAKE THE GAME, THEIR EMPLOYEES DON'T GET PAID, AND THEIR FAMILIES GO HUNGRY. WHAT EVERYONE IS ASKING FOR IS NOT FAIR TO THEM. THEY HAVE GIVEN YOU ALL OF THIS WONDERFUL GAME FOR FREE, STOP COMPLAINING AND TELLING THEM YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO SPEND YOUR TIME PLAYING IT- IF IT WERE ME, THAT WOULD BE AN INSULT TO THE THING I HAD CREATED.

 

PS. The all-caps, all-bold above isn't intended to seem like shouting or being angry- I am only trying to heavily emphasize my main point and concern is this post.

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devs need to start buffing and stop nerfing things that little kids wine about because they cant get the loot when they just start playing they need 2 cry about it because they dont have the needed equipemnt 2 go on the mission.

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devs need to start buffing and stop nerfing things that little kids wine about because they cant get the loot when they just start playing they need 2 cry about it because they dont have the needed equipemnt 2 go on the mission.

The people who are unequipped are the ones abusing this- it's the veteran players who are complaining about it. You have it ENTIRELY backwards...

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-snip-

You seem mad... You going to be okay bro ?

 

On the other side of the spectrum people get bored of the grind and leave to find something more entertaining.

People get the hell in with not getting something after like 200 runs and leave to find something more fulfilling.

At this point they arnt spending anything at all... I know this for a fact because it happened to me, I just came back after over a year away to find that not much has changed.

 

But hey, if you want to cater for just one bunch that's cool too I suppose.

 

I say if you don't like GMags then no one is forcing you to play with them... The choice is and has always been the players.

I suppose coming to the forums to whine about an ability and get it nerfed for the people that do enjoy it is another way of going about it too though...

Who is Greedy now ?

 

Ps : What Some consider "Gameplay" may differ to what others consider it to be... That is afterall the essence of Gameplay, doing things your way, the way you as a person Enjoy them... 

Once again no one is forcing you or anyone else to play with way, if you dont like it then just dont do it... 

 

Or of course you could come to the forums and whine about it and get it nerfed for the people that do infact enjoy it... 

I wouldve though thats just inconsiderate though.

 

For the record I don't care either way... I'm mearly remarking upon the Paradox of Someone coming to the forums asking for Nerfs to other peoples gameplay because it doesn't suit them and then having the audacity to call the others Greedy.

 

I don't care how people play the game, as long as they are enjoying it... I play Loki for Mostly everything though.

Edited by Lickity-Split
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Everyone saying goodbye to mag isn't thinking outside the box.

4 GMag on Draco seems fun.

3 GMag and 1 Banshee on Draco. Pull them all to you that way the drops are a vacuum away for banshee.

Mag Power build on Triton will still be useful.

The frame has seen a return in play. Mostly due to GPull, but, other modern builds are useful as the game evolves. Don't trash any frame nowadays. except Limbo. Always trash Limbo.

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I see this change has angered the scubs lol

 

Seriously, Mag is a beast even without that mod. There is a whole level of ability and play that a lot of the people here will never learn.

 

How about some of these "youtubers" people are so in love with, start making good videos about real skill, and how to get better, and stop posting the easiest and cheapest ways to abuse the system to get through the game.

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@ everyone saying RIP Mag RIP teamplay "This solves nothing" and "Grind is the problem". I say this. DE, please fix mesa's peacemaker to not auto aim without at least some mouse input (conal selection seems best) next, ty.

Sorry, no.

Pick Saryn (no LoS), Mirage (LoS), Ember (no LoS), Excal (LoS), etc. etc. etc.

Mod for range, strength, efficiency.

start

 Send {4}

 Sleep 4000

end

Peacemaker isn't the problem.

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Nerf,Nerf,Nerf was hier nur noch Generft wird ist der Hammer !!!

Wahrscheinlich braucht DE keine Spieler die hier treu bleiben und gehen Tendenz Steigend mehr es gibt ja noch andere Games.

Denke DE sollte sich erst einmal gedanken um andere Sachen Bugs machen als wie wider eine ganze Nation von Spielern aufruhr zu bringen.

 

Ordentliches Multiplayer Menü (Ping)

Sichtbarkeit der Quittungen in Game

Textur Fehler etc...  etc...

Kickfunktion im Chat bei Anstößigen Wörten uvm uvm.

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I don't know how people don't get this. I was doing one of the easy mod missions in t4def with the usual set up. The guy using the mesa was getting mad that i was using polarize because I was quote, "taking his kills." he didn't know that it was such a great damage dealer, and thought it was just a way to regain shields. it can kill hordes of enemies in endless missions late in the count. 

I said in my head that sounds like a PSN player..it was.  Thats your typical psn n00b, all day everyday esp from recruiting chat groups.

 

EDIT:

In the devstream you said 'pull is used 4x more than any other ability'  Well when I am mag and/or I see other mags, pull is usually spammed 4x at once to get everything to the feet.  Is this the only stat you're basing a potential nerf on?

Edited by (PS4)Sum1ne_Else
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What are the starter frames again? Excalibur, Excalibur and Excalibur right? Im pretty sure DE replaced Volt, Loki and Mag with Excalibur, Excalibur and Excalibur recently. Theres pretty much no reason for a new player to NOT choose Excalibur over Volt, Mag or Loki (Loki was the one replaced right? Or was it Volt). Why pick up Loki as your first Frame when you can Radial Blind everything? Why pick up Volt when you can Radial Javelin everything? Why pick up Mag when you can Exalted Blades everything? Mags Greedy Pull was the one thing keeping her as a viable pick for a beginner because they could get a party to pretty much everything, regardless of skill level or experience. While I find Greedy Mags boring to play as (Same with Mesa Makers), I do respect the utility she brings. If youre in a long, drawn out endless, running around to get ammo drops can be dangerous.

 

I guess RIP Mag, Ill still use you for Alad farming but this nerf to Greedy Pull all but shelved you until a buff comes your way.

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Disappointing , DE.

How about , you ban the macro use completely?

How about , making the greedy pull work only on loot and not enemies and remove the energy orbs from it?

How about , making the greedy pull work for all companions (sentinels/kubrows) affecting only the loot? (if not mistaken those are affected by being afk even before the new afk system and have a cool down so just moving around a bit wont work , unless it gets bugged like the carrier and you won't pick up any drops for the rest of the mission)

How about , you address the real problem of the grind/farming and drop tables , maybe after you done with U17 and U17.5?

Unless you already have a plan to do that in U17 already , which begs the question why bother now with all these nerfs?

 

 

After that you can move on and come up with new ideas for more fun or puzzling game play and keep expanding , for one i still want to see parkour only missions or stealth only mission of course changes need to made on that level of design for these to be viable (i hope the new parkour will allow that).

 

But first you really need to draw a line and fix the core problems of the game , the more you add the harder will be later to fix them.

Edited by -CM-Raven
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Sorry, no.

Pick Saryn (no LoS), Mirage (LoS), Ember (no LoS), Excal (LoS), etc. etc. etc.

Mod for range, strength, efficiency.

start

 Send {4}

 Sleep 4000

end

Peacemaker isn't the problem.

Saryn has very short range in comparison to the others, Mirage as you said needs line of sight on top of the fact that her beam can't target literally everything at once, and needs time to deal it's damage, Ember (really? her ult's really not that great... damage or otherwise), Excal's RJ isn't what it used to be, and his ult is likely gonna get altered in some way in the foreseeable future.

 

Peacemaker IS the problem. The problem is the fact that she can put a piece of duct tape on her mouse, walk away from the computer, and beat the game. It's not that peacemaker is OP. Not to mention that in actual NON FARM GAMEPLAY it has issues as well- such as: Butcher is smacking Mesa, Mesa is almost dead, Mesa decides to shoot literally every one of the other 10 enemies at a distance not even attacking her before shooting this Butcher, Mesa is now dead. Just admit it, you guys just do not want to lose your 1 button hold to win skill.

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Saryn has very short range in comparison to the others, Mirage as you said needs line of sight on top of the fact that her beam can't target literally everything at once, and needs time to deal it's damage, Ember (really? her ult's really not that great... damage or otherwise), Excal's RJ isn't what it used to be, and his ult is likely gonna get altered in some way in the foreseeable future.

I chose the examples out of a hat, not because they're best representative. They're not.

 

Miasma: Yes, it does. Still good enough to defend 3 points.

Mirage: Big deal. Stand on The Box. Aim for Tower B. You'll be hitting pretty much everyone.

Ember: Yes, really. 4xCP kills enemy armor, leaving you with +25% damage. It it ideal? No. Will it work? It ought. Heck, add an Accelerant cast to the mix.

Excal: Yeah, meant Radial Jav. No, it's not what it used to be, but it still works.

 

 

Peacemaker IS the problem. The problem is the fact that she can put a piece of duct tape on her mouse, walk away from the computer, and beat the game.

Not without support.

Which is no different from any other nuker, if they have a complementary team composition.

 

 

 Not to mention that in actual NON FARM GAMEPLAY it has issues as well-

Glad to see you acknowledge that, at least.

 

 

Just admit it, you guys just do not want to lose your 1 button hold to win skill.

I used Mesa pretty much none-stop for around a month after getting her.

I think the last time I used her the Newyears' Tac alerts.

I liked her. I still do. But I'd had enough.

So thanks for the ad hominem, but no.

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As much as I advocate anti-macro farm, and hardcore camping in general, DE...

 

 

....this is not the solution.

 

It's a CO-OP game, for heaven's sake! How about we just make it unable to pull orbs?

Edited by Evanescent
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I chose the examples out of a hat, not because they're best representative. They're not.

 

Miasma: Yes, it does. Still good enough to defend 3 points.

Mirage: Big deal. Stand on The Box. Aim for Tower B. You'll be hitting pretty much everyone.

Ember: Yes, really. 4xCP kills enemy armor, leaving you with +25% damage. It it ideal? No. Will it work? It ought. Heck, add an Accelerant cast to the mix.

Excal: Yeah, meant Radial Jav. No, it's not what it used to be, but it still works.

 

 

Not without support.

Which is no different from any other nuker, if they have a complementary team composition.

What I got out of this is that Draco has some map design issues it needs worked out and Trinity needs a nerf (big surprise- but not exactly easy to do since that's her thing...). I would not have any issues whatsoever with an Ember ACTIVELY running around draco to kill things. Excals are more likely to smash E with his ult now because it's actually FUN. Mirage at least has to run around to pick up energy, and Saryn... well honestly I think her ult needs a rework for just about every reason BESIDES being useful for farm... (not to mention her other skills). My point here- I don't have an issue with ANY of these people being used to "grind" Draco or anything else- because they cannot go completely afk to do so. Mesa can. If Mesa disappeared- a NUMBER of frames would take her place. There would no longer be a #1 combo. Recruit would not be 90% "Gmag/Mesa for draco". At worst it would be "Farming draco, need trinity/nuke frames". 90% of the community telling you to "play" 1-2 frames specifically or not to "play" at all because they want to NOT play and get everything is WRONG. GMag needs to die, and she's going to. It's sad, because if it wasn't abused- in it's current form it would be fine as it CAN be used for teamplay. But it's not, what she does now is not "teamplay" it's AFK farming, there is no "playing involved. Mesa needs to die and be reborn as a beautiful phoenix embodying the potential she had from the beginning- but did not reach due to some very poor design choices.

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