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[DE]Drew

July 3Rd: Community Hot Topics!

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I still feel that even with the additional ruling for Greedy Pull that we're still going to have the problem of lazy players not participating in fights but this does remove the large problem of people spamming "LF GREEDY MAG" and causing a whole group to be lazy.

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i really want more corrupted mods...BUT

 

-there is so many corrupted mods already that its hard to get all corrupted mods because any vault can drop any corrupted mod(?) (lesser chance to get the one you want)

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A bit late on the feedback, I suppose.  But better late, than never, right?

 

Greedy Pull:  (And to a lesser extent the other 'problem' regarding Mesa.)

Honestly, if the community, at large feels that Greedy Mag is a problem, then this particular fix will either solve the problem, and force Mag back into Oblivion, or make it worse when everyone just plays Mag to leech off of one person killing things, to sit and farm loot.

 

Personally, I don't see the problem.  Sure, you could say it trivializes missions, when paired up with a killer frame, such as Mesa.  And while it certainly makes them easier, I'm not sure why that's a bad thing.  If one frame was able to trivialize a high level endless-type mission, on its own, then maybe that would be a problem.  But, as it is, this is more what I would consider teamwork, or frame synergy.

 

I can understand that some people don't like going to their node of choice, and basically end up sitting around on their thumbs, while two people do all the work.  But, in my own experience, this only affects 'hotspot' farming nodes (mostly because literally every other node past Saturn/Jupiter, that isn't a popular farming node, is literally void of any life, period).  But, really, if you're going to those nodes to farm, and are open to farming with other randoms, who are also there to farm, then I fail to see the issue of making said farm easier, from a player's point of view, other than the fact that it's boring.  But let's be honest, farming is boring anyway, no matter what you do, unless you're intentionally challenging yourself, in which case, you probably should start by turning your matchmaking to 'solo'.

 

But, hey, popular farming nodes aren't going to be a thing anymore, after U17, right?  Kinda makes this whole controversy a bit pointless, I think.

 

As I stated, this 'Greedy' fix will most likely solve the Mesa/Mag problem on things like Draco, or Dark Sector Defense.  But, if it really, truly is a game-breaking issue, then, as has been stated a bunch, a different solution would probably be a better one.  And, more than likely, the louder portion of the community is still going to cry for a Peacemaker nerf, just as they have since Mesa was introduced.  (And, I really, really don't want to see my Mesa nerfed...  Even though I rarely use Peacemaker, it's still a nice trump card to have, when being overwhelmed.  Besides, damage based abilities really do fall off pretty hard in end game, especially in the void.)

 

 

 

Frost Rework:

I honestly didn't think that Frost needed a buff/rework, as I've been using him to solo T4 defense.  But...  I'll certainly take it, especially if it makes him more viable in the less campy mission types.  And after seeing the little demo on the last devstream...

 

Yes!  All my yes!  I am hyped for this!

 

 

 

Corrupted Mods:

I'm not sure if I would call corrupted mods 'the most balanced' portion of the game, but honestly, I'm not going to deny the introduction of more mods.  However, I'd rather see some more interesting types.  Something like increased armor, for decreased sprint speed.  Or maybe have a cursed sort of Life Strike, where instead of being a channeling effect, it gradually drains the players health, even while the weapon is sheathed.

 

Honestly, I can't really think of many examples for new corrupted mods, that aren't already something in the game.  But, I will say that if DE is looking to add more mods to the game, they should definitely consider Archwing and companions.  Mostly Archwing.  Seriously, the Archwing mods are pitiful, and they make me sad.

 

 

 

PvP/Parkour 2.0/etc.:

I tried the new PvP once.  And honestly speaking, as it is right now, it's not my cup of tea.  It makes me sad, because it's more dynamic than a lot of games on the market right now.  But it falls into the same traps that make me dislike arena-style FPS games, such as CoD.  I don't think that it's the movement that makes it un-fun.  It's just the small arenas, and the frantic bullet/melee spammy based combat that it promotes.  (Note:  As I've stated, I played one match, and am making basic observations that may or may not be correct.)

 

When playing competitively, I prefer larger scale, more tactical, objective oriented sort of play, that allows for strategy and promotes more skill than 'point gun at guy, and hold trigger until it dies'.  Movement aside, the one thing that would make me play more PvP, more than any other factor, would be to include a more tactical, objective based sort of game mode, that's played on a larger scale arena.  Think something like Rush, or Conquest, from the Battlefield series.  (That said, peer to peer connection types, along with their limitations, also make me sad, but that's a whole different conversation, entirely.)

 

On the subject of Parkour 2.0, I'll admit, I'm actually a bit disappointed.  When it was first announced that walljumps would be a thing, my mind immediately went to a game that I played, exclusively, for over three years:  5th generation Armored Core.  Not really the same thing, since ACV/D is a mech based game, with different sorts of mechanics.  But, in terms of walljumping, and movement in general, I think the translation is noticeable.

 

For reference:  (This is a friend, and teammate of mine.  If you want to see more of the game, I have plenty of videos on my own channel, however, I don't utilize the walljumping nearly as well.)

 

The main problems I have with what was shown in the latest devstream demo of Parkour 2.0 isn't the floaty feel of it, nor the direct lack of speed.  My concern is that it looks too sticky on the walls, and seems to cater to a more vertical style of play that many tiles in the game simply do not cater to.  I understand that it's still in development, and might end up being considerably more fluid than what's been shown, but I can't help but be a bit concerned.  Also, the loss in speed will certainly be the death of many people, because of aimbotting-hitscanning AI.  Invincibility frames would be a welcome addition.

 

However, I will say that if the walljumping and movement ends up feeling like ACV/D (example above), then I will likely give PvP another shot, just to see if my crew and I can dominate this game, like we did that one.

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Greedy Mag.

 

In the devstream you said 'pull is used 4x more than any other ability'  Well when I am mag and/or I see other mags, pull is usually spammed 4x at once to get everything to the feet.  Is this the only stat you're basing a potential nerf on?

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as an add to the frost changes, one of the shortcomings of freeze is that its a single target attack that has no AoE and travel time, so miss a bit and that shot is wasted energy. I'd suggest freeze causing a small AoE on impact so even if its a slight miss, it still hits.

 

another alternative to that is freeze acting as a sort of icicle / ice spear, punching through and hitting more than one target.

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Nerfing the augment Greedy Pull for Mag is an attempt to control the behavior of players by restricting this specific abilities utility.  Unfortunately it won't work. Players will just move onto the next most useful ability on another warframe.  There is nothing wrong with the ability itself.  The problem is paying too much mind to all the crying from players that think it is their right to dictate how other players should play the game.  Don't have Mag yet myself, so I can't say from direct experience whether the augment is truly "OP".  Nerfing it isn't going to help anyone, it's just going to alienate more players from the game.  The main point of the game is cooperative play, and the proposed nerf for Greedy Pull takes the coop-friendliness out of the ability- not a smart move.  As for item pickups, loot drops should have been distributed to all players in a party automatically by default from the beginning, the exception being for health and energy drops.  This would also solve the problem of players that get disconnected from a match losing all their loot pickups, which happens all too regularly.

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Oh god, you are thinking to add more corrupted mods? Most if not all of them breaks the game to such a point that we have Greedy mag's and Miasma Saryns, and Javelin excals.

Never thought of it this way but I agree. The drop chance for some of the nightmare mods are really low thus increasing grinding time for players which in turn, turns players lazy and the need for them to use in this case mags greedy pull. I understand the rarity of such nightmare mods make up the warframe grand exchange (runescape refrence) but this is what brings out the lazieness in people.

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Greedy Pull should still work for the entire team, just remove the ability to pull Energy/Health. 

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Greedy Pull:
Greedy Pull has been showing up all over the place as a hot topic. The source threads for this topic cover it extensively. Since I started compiling these topics, some new information has been posted. The latest information can be found here. In light of this new information, what are your current thoughts on Greedy Pull? Is there anything else you’d change? Do you foresee any other issues? 
 
Source threads:
 
 
Frost Rework:
Now that Excalibur’s rework is out on PC and coming soon to consoles, Frost is next in line for a rework. In case you missed the details, here’s an excerpt from the last Devstream:
Ice Wave now extends out from Frost in a cone.
Enemies frozen mid-air will now fall and (potentially) smash on the ground.
Enemies that survive Avalanche will now have their armor 'broken', making them vulnerable to future attacks.
Snow Globe will repel enemies that step inside.
Freeze can hit the floor and create pocket of cold, slowing enemy movement.
Frost's passive will give enemies chance of being frozen when melee attacking Frost.
Or, here’s a recap by Darkfreack:
 
These changes are still a work in progress, but what is your opinion so far? Is there anything you’d change or do differently? 
 
Source thread:
 
 
Conclave, Movement, & Parkour 2.0:
We’ve had a few hot topics that reference “Parkour 2.0”, but this one is about the present and future of Conclave and how it is affected by movement. The source thread discusses the difficulty in targeting players as they fling and copter across the map. Do you think movement is too fast in Conclave? Are there specific movement mechanics that you like or dislike in Conclave? How do you think Parkour 2.0 will affect conclave matches? Are you looking forward to the changes? 
 
Source thread:
 
 
New Corrupted Mods:
When we discussed balance in the last Community Hot Topics, Corrupted Mods were voted one of the best balanced aspects of Warframe. The source thread by PUR3K1LL3R, suggests some new Corrupted Mods to round out the currently available options. If you were to create new Corrupted Mods, what would you make? What stats would they modify? Are there any Corrupted stat combinations that you think would be too powerful? Would you make any changes to the current Corrupted Mods? 
 
Source thread:

 

 

Greedy Pull

Honestly Greedy Pull inst the problem it is the Developers making things like the MESA's Peacemaker Ability, how did you not expect it be abused like Sound Quake/Radial Javelin?

 

This is a development problem not a player problem fix/redesign the Peacemaker ability to be power but still be int he "Gun-Slinger Theme" and stop making abilities that are going to be prone to abuse. Pro-Tip: any ability that is going to allow the user to Kill/Damage a high number of enemies with little to no interaction is going to be abused. I swear I honestly don't think the developers cooking up the abilities actually play the game. The game isn't a Beta you don't have an excuse for these mistakes anymore, your just messing up and trying to blame the community.

 

Frost Rework

Why should the frost re-work be on the table before a ability-damage rework for all frames? The current ability damage system is broken and inadequate, this is why you don't see many pure damage frames in 60+ minute T4S/D. I say put off the Frost Rework till you re-release the frost prime and work on something more meaningful to the game.

 

Parkor 2.0 / Conclave

This is a 2 part answer since I feel that Parkor 2.0 and conclave problems are septate. Parkor 2.0 isn't a bad idea i just think there is much more that needs to be done first. The major problem i have with Parkor 2.0 is that the current levels don't really support Parkor at all, even new rooms or maps have little function that supports Parkor in any meaningful way. So if the current maps don't support Parkor 1.0 in any meaningful way, why spend so much time improving a system that has no functional use in the current map/level design? That is unless your planning on re-designing every map in the game.

 

Conclave problems never going to end, here is why you have chosen to essentially create a game within the game, however you create weapons and frames abilities with little regard to the impact of them in PVP. How do you see the Peacemaker Ability working in PvP, Capture the Ceph with 2 MESA's play defense seems pretty fun right, Run in "Bang, Bang, Bang, Dead...", sign me up for that cluster F%^&*.

 

Regardless when you get around to actually fixing Warframe Damage abilities your going to have to fix it all again for PvP or leave all the broken abilities there for the PvP players to deal with till you actually get around to resetting PvP with PvP 3.0, awesome sounds like a plan to me.

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I think parkour 2.0 will be bad for PvP. Players will just be bunny hoping everywhere from wall to wall to the ceiling non stop and player who do this will be even more annoying to hit than copterers. Plus there is also the fact that unlike copterers, bunny hopers will be able to fire back at you while they are doing it.

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Greedy pull on cool down timer would be better than removing its ability to assist the team with that skill completely

PvP will just be a bunch of bouncing now and not sliding

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After parkour 2.0, Aviator will basically be the meta for PvP. lol

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Funny how even the split is: 

 

PvPers, do you think movement is too fast in Conclave?
  1. Yes. (411 votes [24.98%])

     

  2. bullet_star_rated.png No. (408 votes [24.80%])

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In light of the Vectis Prime having a two-round mag, I feel corrupted mods that reduce mag size in favor of damage (larger casings/shells), reload speed (faster to change a smaller magazine), or punch through (specialty rounds) would be appropriate now, and applicable to many weapons. Even bonus crit damage, crit chance, or status chance wouldn't be a terrible pairing. 

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Although many players in the clan like Mag I personally can live without it, mags pull is a nightmare in defence mission and it ragdolls opponents everywhere.  So what is really wrong with Mags greedy pull.  We all know that the game requires the dreary farming of resources for all things ie equipment/weps/rooms, even experience.  Then along comes greedy pull which assist a "team" of players to either stand and gather said resources OR uses it to assist in defence missions etc.  Now we have a situation where some players dislike this type of play, whilst others actively seek it out !  similar to Mesa defence missions UUGH !, you either love or hate them.  

 

However DE gave the greedy pull I believe to assist this gathering of resource and now because certain players don't like or want this style of play yet another storm of wailing has developed, "Lets dumb down the ability they cry !"  Being a very old hand in this game I have seen it happen repeatedly and personally I am fed up with it.  Fisrt it was Excalibur "much too powerful" Nerf, then Nova, Nerf, then Trinity, Frost NERF !   If you do not like playing with ppl who use this frame and its ability then do as i do and leave the game they play in, otherwise stay and enjoy the rewards they bring.

 

 

Forgot about Frost Duh !

 

In the early days Frost was the only real defensive Frame and the Snowglobe was the works.  It could be multi-spammed for an onion effect, giving the line of attack something to chew through and had a good damage absorption level.  Then came the Nerf. Now the globe cannot be 'onoin'd'.  Trying ends up with a recasting on the original spot it if you are too close to it; It slows opponents er sort of good, but the life/damage was jiggled and it is nowhere near as effective as it started out to be for high level defences.  

 

The new ability sort of gives a meaning back to the globe but without the damage it can absorb being drastically increased it is pointless. Repelling enemies out of the globe without destruction just makes for more enemies on the outside firing at the globe to bring it down even faster.

 

The other abilities sadly are still a curiosity as they always have been and I would still not use them even at mid level, and forget them at high levels in the game.

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Greedy Pull

For one, why was it not playtested before putting it into the game?

Second, what is the exact problem with GP? As with Excalibur, I see that the development goes toward the loudest voices, instead of deciding what the game should be about.

Third, change GP if you want, but once! I am fed up of something being changed every month. Figure out what you want to do please.

 

PvP

Conclave, like Archwing, is game within a game. But while Archwing may one day become (at the moment it does not seems to though) an integral part of the game,Conclave will never be. PvE players will balk at too much integration, and as it is now, it is not possible.

While I understand that some people want to play PvP, the whole concept is questionable. Weapons work differently in PvP, the movement speed is changed. I do not think it was a wise idea.

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I don't think that the fix on greedy pull is a step in the right direction. Limiting team play of any frame's ability doesn't seem like a right decision. I feel the solution could have been implemented in a different way.

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Do you think the Greedy Pull change is sufficient?

People don't want Mag in their team. It doesn't really distinguish itself when the going gets tough. At low levels regular pull was very useful for interrupting enemies, or relocating them out of melee range of anything or one you wish to defend. At higher levels pull is too weak, crush isn't effective enough and too long to animate, and the mag falls over fairly easily when when out of sheild polarise. Mags best asset was the ability to power team mates via the Greedy Pull. Making G-pull just pull for the user alone is just a waste of a mod. You may as well just make regular pull work on energy orbs too if it's just for the user. Mag scored over Trinity because Mesa would kill Trinity's victims before the energy was received and keep the relevant 25 metre range for receiving energy devoid of sources. G-pull turned Mag from the Waterboy to the star player. Now it's back to the least valued end of the bench again.

 

So what are we really talking about here? are we talking about a broken game? No, I don't believe so. Are we talking about an activity taking away from the games lifespan? Again I don't believe so. So what is it about? It is about Grind Vs Platinum. G-Mags don't overly shorten the lifespan of the game by making it too easy to get what you want. That accolade belongs to platinum. But what G-Mags did do is to significantly reduce how arduous the grind was. DE gave us the tools, and we devised the best way to use them. But now the balance between grinding, reaching for our Bank cards, and the games reputation for being enjoyable and free-to-play has been shifted too far. DE make a fantastic game that we all love to play. But this is not an act of charity. They are reliant on us being enticed into buying plat to keep them in business. We need to buy plat to keep Warframe up and running. We need to buy plat to keep the awesome updates rolling in and improvements created. By shifting the balance between arduous grind or easy farming, this great free-to-play game, potentially would not be supportable on it current scale. DE need to earn and wholly deserve to earn an income, with some degree of profit. Unfortunately putting the waterboy back on the bench leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I am hoping a new less severe solution can be thought up that would not just kill the Mag. Maybe some new mission types that favour the mags ability set? But with the current proposal, when it comes to selecting preferred frames for specific tasks, Mag is again going to become the last kid picked for the team.

 

 

 

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Frost "rework" doesn´t feel "reworky". At least not as much as excaliburs reworks.

 

So a "Meh 5/10" from me.

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Frost changes are nice, but don't seem to change very much from the base functionality.

 

The freeze change might free up the ice wave augment, depending on size, but its not new because of it. But it might be the best change in the pool, since that really adds usefulness and defensive ability.

 

The Ice wave change makes it hit more things - nice, but not game changing. Maybe nice for covering more territory in ice.

 

The Snow Globe change makes it still stand out higher in usefullness than Frosts other abilities.

 

The Avalanche change is nice, but I am not sure its worth it, considering the low range. Adding a freezing effect would be more interesting to me, since it adds to defensive when all those hit suddenly move and attack slower. Still probably lower in usefulness than a Snow Globe (maybe with augment)

 

The Frost passive sounds good, nothing to complain about from my side.

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Do you think the Greedy Pull change is sufficient?
  1. If you wanted to remove Mag as a helpful member of a team, yes.  If you wanted to remove experience farming on Draco, no.

 

How do you feel about the upcoming Frost changes?

  1. It seems Snowglobe is going to be too powerful, specially if you thought Greedy Pull was previously.

 

PvPers, do you think movement is too fast in Conclave?

  1. For me, no.  For other players, yes.

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Greedy Pull:

 

I agree with the change, but not for the sakes of "reducing the farming." that's a silly reason. I agree with the changes because it made stationary gameplay too easy. you had no incentive to move with a gmag in your group because they could generally just pull everything to you. There will always be a fast way to obtain loot, but the game shouldn't play itself for you. 

 

 

Frost Rework:

 

I'll have to test it for myself to have a good opinion on it, but it looks ok so far.

 

 

No opinion on PvP.

 

 

Corrupted Mods:

 

More corrupted mods? Sure! If they're not pointless or broken that is...

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"Do you think the Greedy Pull change is sufficient?"

 

Off course not! 1% of the player base surprisingly still use it! So you need to nerf it more in order to make it 100% useless.

wait... hum.. wasn't that the objective of this change? To make the mod useless? I'm confused...

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Well here's my 2 cents worth

Greedy Pull should not have been nerfed, Mag should have been adjusted, to a cone at best. I play G-Mag a lot. and it's odd that people just stand and pull I don't. I aim in the general direction and pull. I like doing what I can for the team. Now you have taken me out of that role. You have a lot of people in this game that are like me, disabled and she was a way to help and be a team player. I can barely do any parkour. I have patience friends. And I do raids to. They wait on me

Mesa needs adjusted. She is OP, she never miss's, she has and endless supply of ammo with her 4th abilities I know I have played her as long as she has energy. but you just have to punch a button once and let her go, really where's the challenge in that. Mesa was well thought out just not implemented right. you should have to do some aiming or some of the work. At least you had to hit the button every time Mag had to pull. and as I said I already aim in the directions I'm pulling from. Mag and Greedy Pull is not the problem. She was and asset ( and to the people that don't play the game you shouldn't respond. )

I have read this entire section, People that don't like a G-Mag leave that Tile Set, better yet put together your own group of like minded people and do the Draco. Don't ruin what others like or can do in the game just because it displeases you. Life is full of displeasures get use to it, so is many aspects of gaming. I have played the Dark sector on Ceres with a Valkyr and my only weapon was a Ankyu, never using the 4th power except when in dire need of it, and do this for hr.'s . Just for the fun of it. Have even had others come an join me after a few sessions of just pure Melee. This is to show you can Play the game like you want when you want.

I play this game for fun and it's challenges and I have to farm for several things just like other people do, now you have made that very hard for some, me included and put a beautiful frame on the bench. The Greedy Mod is as it was suppose to be, as it was designed to do for that Warframe.

( I guess the War is over for her Tenno they are shipping her home and stripping her of her most useful power, though she has done no wrong. she was to good at her job and some couldn't handle her )

Mag is like Nova in many respects one of the Crown jewels, only your throwing her away from Team work you know COOP Play, what the game is all about. Really. Someone have a brain fart in the Dev's closet or something. Farming is a Necessity of the game, it's a part of grinding and will be here no matter what you do, it is a necessary or you will have to change the game in some very drastic ways and take out COOP play in which is the Game is based and so loved by many, me included.. and change the economy of the game so the Grind is gone, Wait you just did that with Mag..... But the hard gring is still there and guess what she's a starting frame to, are you sending her away to ? why yes and giving New players a chance at a Warframe they will just sell if they choose it as soon as possible. Sounds like Oberon, only Warframe you don't even have to leave home to farm his parts are all over the system and even in the Void.

I'm just and Old gamer and Beta tester of many games. ( been playing games since the 80's ) When you have and economy such as this one you have to farm for the supply' s, no if's and's or butts about it. Some things in this game are really set way to high to use such as the sensors BP taking 50,000 of each item to build said item is just ridicule's, especially when you have to pay a 100 plat for said Blue prints. that's broken. ( @ the Dev's ) You can have your cake and eat it to if you do it right. But not if you don't. this isn't the right move, and you should fix what you have just broken.

Yet they want people to pay for Plat, that's fine I don't mind supporting a good and well balanced game I love to play though I am not rich by any means. Just don't Ruin the game for me and others I will stay an play it's mostly all I do or can do.

all right I said my 2 cents.

Yellow Eagle / xDirty_Birdx

Fight with Honor Lead by Example

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