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[DE]Drew

July 3Rd: Community Hot Topics!

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While I still disagree with the greedy pull change, here are some mag changes. She needs a rework, period:

1) Shield Polarize and the Augment

100% of depleted enemy shields becomes an over shield that is divided amongst the team

Changes to shield transference:

100% of depleted enemy shields becomes an over shield that is divided amongst the team AND

50% (or some other number) of depleted (yes depleted) enemy armor is divided amongst team members and added to the armor rating of each player

There you go, an infinentely scaling ability that turns everyone into Rhinos or the babies of Valkyr and rhino!

2) Bullet Attractor

Mag creates a miniature black hole that attracts ALL (including teammates) projectiles and rendering them useless/detonating them (eg. bombard missles will explode on contact). Since mag creates this, it can be thrown anywhere, which is a huge buff.

3) Greedy Pull

PsiWarp had a good idea in that a single player should be able to pick up mods, ammo, credits, and resources for the entire team. In case you don't like that, allow greedy pull to affect mods, credits, resources, and ammo but not energy and health.

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Greedy pull

if Devs dont want ppl to farm dont make RPG with farm fest and terible RNG which push u to farm, just give them all after while playing, in other way ppl start farming, specialy new ones which dont have money, mods, xx forma stuff, now when GP gone there will be different way to farm, and propably soon we see other characters changed becouse Devs dont want their game as farm fest which they design on start (terible RNG in RPG), not everyone got $$ for plats so they can buy items, not everyone got all chars maxed after long playtime, im courios which character will be nerv next when farmer find way to farm in game desing for farm, 

on the world there are many players, everyone play like they like, so i dont get why few always cry about farmers ? if they like it let them do (game was design like that), if dont like play game difrently and dont push other ppl to play like u LOL, specialy when game is design for farm to get some succes here, u got all ur stuff let other get it too simple 

Devs if u want ppl play game different, promote game difrently than now - RPG game with tons of farm so u can get some items if GOD of RNG will be like u, if no, got farm, and we will be sure to make ur lfe harder removing ways to farm...

Frost and rest, i dont know, didnt play game to much like all pross with pro gear complain about new ppl farming to get to their point, let them speak about that :D

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Greedy pull: i think the change was needed, but DE still need to address the affinity gain and loot gain problem that causes players to use greedy pull.

 

Frost rework:

 

Freeze: i think this ability should be hit-scan like oberon's smite. as for now freeze cant hit enemies that are too close because of the absurd flight path that it and the bows use.

 

Ice wave:the changes are fine but it needs just a bit more utility for it to be used outside of low level gameplay.

 

Snowglobe: the changes are fine, although i feel that it is neccessary that explosions and grenades should not penetrate the globe. it is very frustrating to cast a snowglobe just to be kicked out of it by a bombard outside the globe and then getting shot to death by everything around you.

 

Avalanche:the changes proposed are fine but they dont address one big issue with avalanche: enemies can shoot you with good accuracy IMMEDIATELY after the animation ends. this causes avalanche to be very risky to use.

Solution: make enemies hit by avalanche frozen for a few seconds/cold proc. this would add the CC that avalanche needs and give it utility. nothing screams crowd control like mass freeze.

 

PVP and Parkour 2.0:

 

As a conclave tempest I can say that speed is one of the defining features of the conclave. it gives the game pace, it makes you feel like a damn space ninja. I believe that the game or at least the conclave part of it needs to be fast. close range warframes need to have a gap closure that is consistent and not too predictable while long ranged weaponry users need to be able to hit if they aim well. the movement needs to be fast but consistent, not like the current speed bursts.

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Frost changes just don't feel like they'll make him good enough to be accepted in non-defence content; I'm not saying that I'm the kind of player who asks only for specific, meta frames, but other people are like that.

 

As for PvP: I have no interest. No amount of updating PvP will ever change this. If more rewards are added exclusively to it, they are rewards I will never get - if anything, putting me off the game more than incentivising PvP. I don't like killing other players. Some people can enjoy a well played PvP match in games, regardless of who wins; but they are far and few between. I don't enjoy causing other people that grief, or fuelling their kitten-iness should they win. There are plenty of nice PvPers for sure, but PvP communities as a whole are just something I avoid like the plague. That's one of the main reasons I was drawn to Warframe in the first place - it was a purely PvE game with no intent on going towards PvP; then it got more and more popular with different crowds and the demands began. DE weren't wrong to listen to what their players wanted, but I just don't want the non-PvP crowd to be forgotten when new incentives are being thought of.

 

Then there's Greedy Pull. I'm glad it was nerfed, it was destroying the game. Anyone who wants it restored just wants to grind Draco all day because they *_have_* to max things quickly and then complain there's nothing to do. It's not about the end point - the journey is part of the game! And, until we get Focus (if it's not been completely scrapped at this point), there's barely any end point to begin with. While I think Greedy Pull's nerf was sufficient, I'd still like DE to look at augments as a whole. They fall into two categories: a) No brainer, absolutely must be equipped and b) Not worth the mod slot compared to other stat-related mods Besides, augments aren't even augments - they're outright buffs. Vectis Prime - that was an augment. It took a weapon that had a very specific build and purpose... and completely flipped it upside down! The option to change a frame/power/weapon in such a way - that's an augment. I don't agree with Vectis and Vectis Prime being two completely different weapons, the Prime variant should just be a straight buff of its regular counterpart; with the doubled clip becoming an augment. Then, of course, is the issue that such a change wouldn't warrant using a mod slot; and now we come back to augment slots. Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

And finally, corrupted mods are either useless or more unwanted power creep. No. Thank. You. Frames and weapons that can ignore the penalties of useful corrupted mods gain way too much, while those that don't fall behind.

 

Edit: Paragraphing got ignored when I posted. O_o

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Greedy Pull:

 

The thing about Greedy Pull is that it's a symptom to the problem, not the core of it. The reason why people resort to that kind of farming is because of the Grind Walls put in place against us. It isn't just the grind, as games that have grind sometimes can manage it well. It's the Grind Walls, Time Walls, RNG Walls, and all the other walls that you put in place for us to try and vault over. When players see all the walls placed before them to try and get through/over, they're not going to be happy and play the game throughout various missions, they're going to find the quickest route to overcome the immeasurable walls placed before them.

 

You want players to play the game and be interactive, actually incentivize them by making playing the game not an endless grind, but an enjoyable experience that is rewarding to them. Don't hide the rewards behind obtrusive and oppressive walls (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, MESA GRIND WALL!), make the acquisition process of obtaining something in the game actually enjoyable and fun! Quests were a great start, they added tidbits of lore, even if the missions were the exact same that we experience throughout the game (this needs to be addressed as well), all until you threw everything behind a wait wall.

 

Then came the introduction of more mods to grind and get cores for. How do you think players are going to respond to the even more so massive grind you threw in their faces? They're going to do everything in their power to try and overcome that grind wall and make the acquisition process easier for them to overcome. Nerfing the availability of the cores wasn't the solution either, as now players are more so pushed into these tactics to try and gain sufficient supplies to level up the new mods that come in.

 

Do you really think players enjoy having to level something up after they polarize a slot with a forma? No. Having to go through all that grinding not just once, but multiple times will grate on a players' nerves. So when something like Greedy Pull comes along that can alleviate their frustrations, some players are going to resort to it. They're going to do all they can to try and get out of the rut you've placed them in, and that includes methods that you may not approve of.

 

If these problems were addressed in a more systematic way, then we wouldn't have to be talking about this. Now the problems I am referring to are the endless Grind and absurdly weighted RNG that WarFrame has, that's what needs to be fixed to be more fair to the players. To be more rewarding to those who continue to play the game, to those who stay in a mission nearly for an hour trying to get that one part only to have the weighted RNG not give them a good chance of getting it. The weighted RNG is a massive issue that infuriates players, it does not help with the experience. (I'M LOOKING AT YOU! SHELDON!)

 

Don't nerf the tools the players use, actually make the experience of playing the game more enjoyable so that the players are more exploring in their gameplays, rather than just finding the fastest way to overcome the massive grind walls you place before them.

 

Treat the core of the problem, not the symptoms of it, nor the ways players try to cure that core issue. That core is the insane amount of Walls placed before the players, it doesn't incentivize them to buy plat to overcome it, it tells them to find another game for them to enjoy. It's a simply psychological obstacle, and overlooking it will just create more problems in the future.

 

Edit: People will just resort to other tactics to get the rewards, and whatever DE does to the toolsit won't change that mentality. But, if they actually treat the core issue, which is the insurmountable grind, then things can actually improve.

 

Edit: Dang it it cut my response. Retyping it now!

 

Do you think the Greedy Pull change is sufficient?

 

Like he said GP is not the really issue, it's just a symptom of a deeper problem. Nerfing GP won't solve anything, people will just stop playing with mag and find another way.

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Corrupted Mods is the only thing I will say about. The amount of corrupted mods in warframe now makes it difficult to get the one you desire. I think they should split the tables into the derelect game modes excluding defense and survival. 

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Greedy Pull:

 

"Except they haven't changed anything for the better health for the game, they've done everything but.  If they wanted the game to have better health they'd cut off the cancer that is RNG and make things skill based rather than rolling a die for what you want, this just promotes tedious unending grinding for things that we want and getting frustrated and annoyed when we spend weeks days and hours farming for keys standing and cores to get to even attempt it.  Gmag isn't the problem, it was a shortcut to get around the problem, because the problem is nearly insurmountable otherwise.  If DE wants to fix the problem tell them to stop ripping off the band-aids we put on and get some antibiotics because expecting a festering wound to heal in the open air is the worst thing you can do.

 

------

 


You know what?  I came up with a very nice euphemism for this game and for Gmag.  Would you like to hear a story?  Good, gather round children it's story time.

 

Imagine the Hoover Dam. (Grind wall)  Now imagine the warframes have a bucket (Missions) and a Forest Fire (Progression) to put out.  The only way to put that forest fire out is to climb the dam and scoop out a bucket of water.  For some Frames this is tedious (Banshee, Saryn, etc)  For some it's easy. (Nova, Loki Hydroid etc.)  but they all only have one bucket and they can only take one bucket at a time to the fire.  Now imagine Gmag being able to pull those buckets of water straight from the top and launch it towards the forest fire with great force.  Oh, it's still a massive 10 mile wide fire but slowly but surely she accomplishes her goal. She scales the mountain, she flys higher, farther, faster than any before her.  She's the little Hek-humping tug-boat that could!  And she finally and GLEEFULLY put's out the fire. She's made it. She's done it.  But now she's exhausted, now her arms hurt, her legs are sore, her fingers are cramping, she spent four score and seven days fighting the unending blaze.  And guess what?  GUESSSSSS HWAT!?  *Raises arms up high, a gleeful smile on my face as a rapturous noise of pleasure escapes my throat.*

 

DE SET ANOTHER FEKING FIRE ACROSS THE STREET (Prime access, major updates, VOID TRADER PRIMED MODS)

 

Ugh, I need an asprin."

 

 

I posted these in the 16.11.1 patch notes and while I was a tad annoyed in the first and was being deliberately condescending/silly in the second, they about sum up my thoughts on the matter.    DE, from all of us who have to climb the metaphorical dam to grab our paltry bucket of water to fight the inferno that is progression in this game, I ask you, honestly.  Why?  Why is it necessary to have RNG?  Why do we have to have a dozen tiers of grind for end game content?  We have to grind to level weapons, then grind again to get the gold cores to upgrade the mods these weapons use, then grind yet again multiple times to forma the weapon to make room for the mods that make it an endgame usable form so that we can grind for void keys to grind for prime parts, then grind for the unnecessary resources to build all of these things only to grind levels again  And then we grind to forma them again, then, once all this grind is through we grind an abnormal number of gold cores to rank a bunch of primed mods that sometimes do only marginally better than their base mods.  The only ones I can think of that are at all useful were the warframe primed mods, primed reach and one or two of the weapon primed mods.   

 

And then this doesn't even take into account that some of the primed gear we're struggling to get is barely better than the base gear and it feels like we're only farming these things because of the bling they provide rather than the end game content this should be.  You have it right to have Primed stuff available in void only, nobody should buy their way to power.  But there is a level of expectation that what we struggle to get should be worth the effort...   Prime access is a different story and it is a direct way to support the game while giving back to the player for shelling out as much as they do.  It's sort of a bug bear for me but I understand the reasoning and can respect that, money needs to be made somewhere and having dedicated players testing and supporting this game is perfectly reasonable.

 

Warframe is an Olympic racer that stands to be at the top of most every game I've played, it's just that fun for me... and yet we have a broken, infected leg that's keeping us from reaching our full potential.  We players have bandaged and set the bones of these problems with our own ingenuity and perseverance, utilizing the tools given us to make the best of a bad situation.  It's just disheartening to think that your main response is to rip these bandages off and continue on as if our efforts are meaningless.  We love this game, and we love you the developers for making this game and this community.  Now that my irritation is cooled I can only feel tired and sad that this is the direction you're wanting to take the game, that this is your so called "vision" I know you want us to use the powers the way you want us to use them, but that's not how a game is to be played.  You give us tools and we find new ways to use them, that's meta, that's ingenuity, that gives a game it's charm. 

 

The tools are there but they aren't always for a specific purpose, they can be a source of great power for those who figure out how to best use them.   It seems a shame you would punish people for doing so, I mean look at it this way.  Gaming is just another means of being productive when we have time to kill. Progression is in our blood, it's what drives us forward, some games become like a second job for us, something to pass the time to give us our psychological 'pay' at the end of every day.  And everyone knows that working efficiently at your job normally gets you praise, it gets you promotions and good words from the people above you.  Sure there are the haters, the complainers that don't want to put in the effort because they're lazy, think your methods are cheap and lord forbid "cheating"  when these tools were given to you to fulfill a purpose which you take to the xth degree and exceeds every expectation.

 

Exceeds every expectation.  Now there's a title for employee of the month, right?

 

Apparently not.  instead of praising our ingenuity for taking what we've been givin and making it our own, we're being punished because you don't like how we're using it, despite the outright better methods we come up with when compared to your own.  We understand the meta, sometimes far better than you yourselves do if the latest updates are to be believed.  We understand the numbers, how best they work together and despite you coding them in you all seem to be looking at a big picture, all the gears working together as a whole while the small gears slip by and end up turning an even larger set of gears that you never realized were even there.  That is what we accomplish when we find loot caves, or a great frame combination.  It's unexpected, yes but it's still a part of the same whole, that you seem to constantly rip pieces off your machine, mangle them and then throw them back in and expect things to turn smoothly speaks of poor planning and design. 

 

I'm not trying to be confrontational but sometimes there has to be a whistle blower, sometimes there has to be someone who points out the obvious that no one else seems to see.  We love your work and we love you for making your work.  We hate when you decide to harm your work in some misguided attempt at balancing.  We don't like grind, but its necessary to get the things we want, we don't like climbing the dam to get our buckets of water even though were all but forced to or we'll never in a reasonable amount of time get what we want.  If anything we should be fighting up stream to get waters from a nice crystal clear pond rather than the mucky and grimy river we're wading through.   We should be sopping in water but only want for the best there is, to be the best is to fight upstream through our own merits rather then climb a concrete wall of your own design.   Give us skill based rewards rather than RNG~ad infinitum. 

 

Reward us for doing well for being a great manager of our own little resource business.  Praise our work ethic as we mow down hundreds of grinner for our well deserved reward.  We all want to be employee of the month but when our work ethic is questioned, when all we want is to get paid at the end of the day... Why should we even bother working here?  Why bother even trying for excellence?  Why not just be content with mediocrity and simply use MK-1 weapons all day long?   Because we don't like mediocrity, that's why.  We don't like working a bad job with bad hours and bad benefits.  That's why we try to move up in the world, why be the fry guy, when you can be district manager?  Why stock shelves when you can be ordering the stuff that fills the shelves for every store in your city?  Why content yourself with a plain old bolter when you can have a solid gold 6 forma weapon of mass destruction?  That's progression, it's normal, its fair.  Only it isn't fair when your weapon of mass destruction is behind 6 nuclear blast doors, an army of mooks, five dragons, an ocean of lava and a dozen tax forms you have to spend all day reading over before signing every line on it to even get ahold of one.

 

And you wonder why we choose to take a helicopter over to where it's stored and simply steal it rather than having to deal with the hassle of something that's absurdly disproportionate for the reward given.  We give you excellence and you give us peanuts.  No one wants to work for peanuts, even the elephants.

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the polling for the greedy pull debate should be posted as ' do u think the changes to greedy pull should stand or be changed'.

the issue with greedy pull has never been mag it has always been mesa. There should never have been a damage dealing ability that locks u down mesas ability should make u force walk and or spin( similar to a demon hunter from diablo if you have played that game at all) mesa doesnt encourage coop play but greedy pull does so to me its silly to destroy the only usefull thing about mag when u should be looking at balancing mesa

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They should of just nerfed greedy pull to not pull energy it would of fixed the issue straight away

They already fixed the afk before with having to move after 2 min

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Greedy pull should be reverted to it`s previous state. Nerfing coop is very, very bad. And mesa...  there are other ways to fix that combo

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LOL !

 

So why discuss Greedy Pull, when DE went ahead an did what they wanted anyways.

Sounds like a consultation period to me - "Here is what is proposed"; "Your concerns are duly noted", however hard luck !

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Greedy pull's nerf is hurting a lot of players in farms and in high level defenses too,
And for frost's rework, DONT FORGET about his GLOBE, WE DONT NEED that ability based on DURATION ! 

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First time sorry about my bad english.We are spending a lot of time with warframe and spended a lot of money,everything you fixed was necessary,but to Change the greedy pull was a bad idea,our group of gaming grandpas is very very disappointed inclusive me. The greedy pull Augment was one of the best augment´s in the game to make the mag more interesting to support a Group,so why did you fix it?because it works?yes it works,a mesa gets her energy to take the enemy´s down,a frost get´s his Energie to protect his Group and the third one is happy to get his rare mod he farmed a while for.....without leaving the snowball and alive.A reach nerf had been enough,but you took mag´s teamplay-ability.......please fix it

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LOL !

 

So why discuss Greedy Pull, when DE went ahead an did what they wanted anyways.

Sounds like a consultation period to me - "Here is what is proposed"; "Your concerns are duly noted", however hard luck !

 

To show that they care even though they just went ahead and nerfed gp mag.. lol

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I was never into PVP,but I couldn't not try it out in its current state in Warframe and I must note that there is one major problem with it-the rewards aren't worth the effort.The reputation gain is catastrophically low.I tried my best to get used to it,but I just couldn't.And nothing will make me play PVP again before the pay will equal the work and I'm not alone on this.Considering PVP is much harder than PVE,the rewards must be even greater than those of other Syndicates.

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-Snip-

 

Quoting this guy for truth. There are a huge amount of underlying problems with the game's progression that need to be solved before anything else happens. New players have difficulty with starting the game and sticking with it because it's too difficult to progress, and those that actually stick with it are rewarded with mediocrity and a lack of fulfillment once they're at a point where they can continue on their own. Draco, Viver, E Gate, and Xini were all methods used to make sure that we can quickly level up new gear to get it to a point where we can actually use it and see whether it's practical or not, but by removing the ability to access missions that allow us to do that there's no point in building and using new gear anymore.

 

Beyond that, the Frost rework looks promising if the Excal rework was anything to go by. New corrupted mods are a possibility for interesting new builds to be discovered, hopefully bringing certain frames back into the fold in team compositions. And I don't really play PVP to have any real opinions about it, but I don't think changes to the game's movement system are really going to interest players in the game mode. Why would I play a game mode when there's no reason to do it beyond playing against other players? If I wanted to do that I'd find a shooter that's solely balanced for competitive PVP, like Counter Strike.

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Anyone that thinks the change to greedy pull renders Mag useless has no idea how to mod or play this game. Doesn't matter what your level is.

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Greedy pull:

ok, good change. But energy is still a problem, mag was just the big top of the iceberg

Frost :

Seems good. But i hope he get a speed buff because of the upcoming parkour change.

Corrupted mods :

ok if all frames get a real penalty from corrupted mod. (saryn/nova/mesa)

I still find overextended and fleeting expertise too op.

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It would be nice if these hot topics were on the right hand side notice boards in our ship, would get more player interaction then.

+1

 

Along with some useful links for the newer guys, you know basic game info, link to wiki.

 

A large majority of the playerbase on my preferred system, are not even aware such things as warframe wiki exist, or these very forums.

 

Missing out on a lot of untapped feedback IMO, but that's just my 2p...

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Greedy pull:

 

The change is as so many have said not fixing the problem.

greedy pull fixed the problem with loosing loot in games where som frames have to stay more stationary to keep the team from failing. So with greedy pull all would get the mods and resources.

So the nerf is in that matter is sort of  bad, but Instead of just nerfing this mod I hope this thread will get DE thinking about the problem of getting loot, and like suggested earlier in this thread make all resources and mod pickups the same as credits. so nobody is left out. This is after all a team game.

 

And since people talked some about the mesa and how the mesa ultimate ruins gameplay. Maybee we also should se a cone effekt on the mesa ultimate to sort that out?

 

Corrupted mods:

 

MOAR!

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