Corrupted Ancients Have Really Killed The Low Level Defense Fun Factor

[Clowee]

This is especially noticable in T1-2 defense missions where there are 10 or so of them out at once.

 

It's not like it has made the missions a whole lot more difficult or anything - just kill the ancients and then everything else.  Still dps drops off soo much now after wave 10 that it's kinda boring proceeding onward.

 

It has made the maps a lot more tedious now though, especially if you run a melee centric build and have to deal with getting facewalled by endless butchers with 90% damage resistance.  I'm finding the void missions a lot more boring now without them becoming any more difficult.  You can no longer slam to CC, certain abilities now such as dive bomb, which were hurting to begin with, are now almost 100% useless because they only effect 1 monster.  It also should not take 10-15 minutes for a crappy 4 frame pug group of any makeup to knock out 5 waves sub 20 in a T1 or 2 defense. 

 

If I wanted something tedious and annoying i'de run T4 D for like 40 waves while jamming lit tiki torches up my nostrils.  If i want to just log in for 20 waves to mass murder stuff, i'de like to be able to run T1-2D.  Anymore its like meh why bother its so drawn out and boring now i'de rather just play something else.

 

If anything, i'de like to see the resistance buff scale with the ancient's level, such as a lvl 15 ancient will have 15% to his buff, and a level 80 ancient will have 80%.

 

That will be all.  Carry on.

[GDSK-NXS]

So, when they add difficulty to the game other than just massive amounts of health/armor/shields you... complain?

 

I wouldn't put T1-2 Defense as anything but the easyest type of void mission regarding difficulty and reward, since you have multiple times to get something useful (even tho most of the time is trash).

 

It's as simple as running around and killing every ancient you see, with a decent team (no extreme farming group including mesa)  you can easily do around 30 waves without a single drop of sweat. You, of course, need to know that ancient healers give this resistance and are the priority. While any of the players (most arguably the fastest) kills the ancients around the map, the other 3 just have to defend in the most normal way, spam and shoot until there's nothing left to kill.

 

You do need of someone with the mind set to do it (like me) and missions of this kind are easily beaten. In T3-4 the only other problem are nullifiers, but they require the same tactic, running and killing healers and nullifiers so the main team can deal damage in the simplest way. Using Nova can help a lot (everybody knows that) to hold the running waves of mobs, specially butchers and moas that run towards the pod, which are the first objective for the main team, just before the heavy gunners and bombards, ending with lancers and crewmen.
 

I would just say it takes knowledge to make it easier, but can still think it's hard anyways if your guns are not very strong and your team knows nothing about healers, and keep healing them damaging the protected units.

[AdunSaveMe]

Straight-up stat boosts are never very fun. It's not really engaging when the only deciding factor in a fight is whether or not you have enough ammo, not whether or not your aim is good or your positioning is good or you're smart or mobile.

 

It's just kinda "dps or lose, because we say so".

Edited July 8, 2015 by AdunSaveMe

[Revel72]

Game has become slightly harder and I don't see you taking up on arms and one shotting stuff like you are supposed to in warframe.

 

Heck those Corrupted ancient healers are just nothing man. Just shoot them after Corrupted rocketeers and Heavy gunners and you will be A OK.

[Clowee]

Game has become slightly harder and I don't see you taking up on arms and one shotting stuff like you are supposed to in warframe.

 

Heck those Corrupted ancient healers are just nothing man. Just shoot them after Corrupted rocketeers and Heavy gunners and you will be A OK.

 

Like most of the others you appear to be dramatically missing the point which is the game isn't actually any harder in low tier missions because of this addition.  I'm going to single you out though because there are no rockets in T2D or lower, which is what this post is regarding.

 

Massivly boosting the health of non-lethal monsters does not make them any more difficult or dangerous.  It simply makes them take longer to kill or requires you to kill them in a certain order.  A level 20 heavy gunner isnt going to kill me whether it has 100 health, or 10000000 health. 

 

Tedious != Difficult.  Increasing the level of Tedious will never ever make the encounters more Difficult.

 

Adding environmental traps or more dangerous mobs such as Bombards to T1-2 would make it more difficult.

 

Massively increasing the health of the existing mobs simply makes it more tedious because these mobs are seldomly dangerous, but it doesnt make it any more difficult to progress through.  It simply takes longer.

 

Furthermore, the rewards for T1D and even T2D are not very good unless you consider Orkin Cells, Fusion cores, and Formas to be your holy grail.

 

Difficulty and Challenge = good.

 

Tediousness = Bad.

 

It's as simple as that.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

So, when they add difficulty to the game other than just massive amounts of health/armor/shields you... complain?

 

I wouldn't put T1-2 Defense as anything but the easyest type of void mission regarding difficulty and reward, since you have multiple times to get something useful (even tho most of the time is trash).

 

It's as simple as running around and killing every ancient you see, with a decent team (no extreme farming group including mesa)  you can easily do around 30 waves without a single drop of sweat. You, of course, need to know that ancient healers give this resistance and are the priority. While any of the players (most arguably the fastest) kills the ancients around the map, the other 3 just have to defend in the most normal way, spam and shoot until there's nothing left to kill.

 

You do need of someone with the mind set to do it (like me) and missions of this kind are easily beaten. In T3-4 the only other problem are nullifiers, but they require the same tactic, running and killing healers and nullifiers so the main team can deal damage in the simplest way. Using Nova can help a lot (everybody knows that) to hold the running waves of mobs, specially butchers and moas that run towards the pod, which are the first objective for the main team, just before the heavy gunners and bombards, ending with lancers and crewmen.

 

I would just say it takes knowledge to make it easier, but can still think it's hard anyways if your guns are not very strong and your team knows nothing about healers, and keep healing them damaging the protected units.

 

You're confusing fake difficulty with actual difficulty. Why not instead make enemies that are fun to kill, instead of making an enemy that simply decreases the time you can spend in a mission? For a solo player, the following always happens to me in the void now, these things start showing up and their buffs make it impossible to kill enough enemies. Then I start facing a wall of flesh I can't get past, then I have to leave the mission as to not get overwhelmed. That's not difficulty, that's a no-win scenario. When they start spawning like candy later on, they are in fact a permament stat boost since you can't kill them all once they get too numerous. What DE did here was simply prolong the grind since they put in a hard limit to these missions now.

[GDSK-NXS]

You're confusing fake difficulty with actual difficulty. Why not instead make enemies that are fun to kill, instead of making an enemy that simply decreases the time you can spend in a mission? For a solo player, the following always happens to me in the void now, these things start showing up and their buffs make it impossible to kill enough enemies. Then I start facing a wall of flesh I can't get past, then I have to leave the mission as to not get overwhelmed. That's not difficulty, that's a no-win scenario. When they start spawning like candy later on, they are in fact a permament stat boost since you can't kill them all once they get too numerous. What DE did here was simply prolong the grind since they put in a hard limit to these missions now.

 

Maybe, I'm not going to say I haven't experienced the "fleshy wall of doom" before, warframes with no mobility power are usually overwhelmed easily, and those with not high enough health or a reliable source of HP will die too because of the Eximus Healers that have a poison aura. but it's a faction made of the worst of them all, combined, it should be hard, it's the top content of the game (not talking about raids). The only thing that makes it easier is the projectile time in the shotguns and rifles of the 2 of the lower range corrupted units (crewman and lancer). Nullifier's projectile has an immense flight speed (I think since it's a lanka it does have flight speed) so it doesn't count as "easier".

Should they reduce the spawns of healers? absolutely. Will they? never.

[Marthrym]

So, when they add difficulty to the game other than just massive amounts of health/armor/shields you... complain?

 

I'm sorry, you lost all credibility in my eyes when I read this sentence.

Hey at least you made me laugh, that's a good thing, right?

Edited July 9, 2015 by Marthrym

[GDSK-NXS]

I'm sorry, you lost all credibility in my eyes when I read this sentence.

Hey at least you made me laugh, that's a good thing, right?

 

wash them when you wake up m8, that way you will not loose credibility en your eyes.

Edited July 9, 2015 by GDSK-NXS

[Marthrym]

wash them when you wake up m8, that way you will not loose credibility en your eyes.

That... didn't make any sense. Why am I not surprised? Oh right... Because those words come from someone who seems to believe piling up numbers and cheap mechanics are what challenge and difficulty mean... Yeah sorry, I really, really can't take you seriously, no matter how much I try.

 

But once more, thanks for the lulz, Much appreciated!

[GDSK-NXS]

That... didn't make any sense. Why am I not surprised? Oh right... Because those words come from someone who seems to believe piling up numbers and cheap mechanics are what challenge and difficulty mean... Yeah sorry, I really, really can't take you seriously, no matter how much I try.

 

But once more, thanks for the lulz, Much appreciated!

 

That's what I stand for, making people laugh! you should try it some times, it's waaay better that whatever you are being the those last two posts tbh, but btw, would you care make at least one constructive post instead of mocking? What kind of difficulty you want in this game, shed some light in my poor damned soul that dwells in the not-founder society, oh almighty master.

[Marthrym]

That's what I stand for, making people laugh! you should try it some times, it's waaay better that whatever you are being the those last two posts tbh, but btw, would you care make at least one constructive post instead of mocking? What kind of difficulty you want in this game, shed some light in my poor damned soul that dwells in the not-founder society, oh almighty master.

Oh, so now it's because I'm a founder? It's funny how how some people always try to bring up meaningless things like this and conclude completely crazy and unrelated things of it... What does the founder status have to do with anything here? And it once again proves my point. Thank you very much, fellow Tenno, for doing all the work for me!

I'm not mocking as much I am saddened to see that you think difficulty necessarily means numbers. And you really shouldn't talk about "constructive" posts, considering your first post (and all the subsequent ones in this thread) were far from bringing anything other than a condescending. Doesn't help you much in the credibility department either... But if it helps, I formally apologize!

And don't worry, I have my fill of laugh every day. Especially when I read that kind of post.^^

Edited July 10, 2015 by Marthrym

[KirukaChan]

I don't mind the Ancients as they are now. Before, they were just fodder enemies. Now there's actually a reason to go after them specifically.

 

Throwing Nullifiers into the mix is when it gets a bit BS, though, if you don't have a decent fire rate weapon. If an Ancient's in the shield, you have to take down the shield first, then the Ancient, then the Nullifier. Getting in close is an option, but now the Nullifier has more time to shoot at you since the Ancient has to be taken out first.

[GDSK-NXS]

Oh, so now it's because I'm a founder? It's funny how how some people always try to bring up meaningless things like this and conclude completely crazy and unrelated things of it... What does the founder status have to do with anything here? And it once again proves my point. Thank you very much, fellow Tenno, for doing all the work for me!

I'm not mocking as much I am saddened to see that you think difficulty necessarily means numbers. And you really shouldn't talk about "constructive" posts, considering your first post (and all the subsequent ones in this thread) were far from bringing anything other than a condescending. Doesn't help you much in the credibility department either... But if it helps, I formally apologize!

And don't worry, I have my fill of laugh every day. Especially when I read that kind of post.^^

 

Well, you didn't said what's difficulty for you so I'm gonna guess you don't have a clue. Also the founder thing was just to empathize the immense gap between us, oh you royal highblood with manners of golds and words of ivory. I suppose you got lost when you saw the word "founder" and stopped reading just like you did when I wrote the first post, or that's at least what you make me think without any further explanation (which you obviously don't need to give because you are pinnacle of the community and I'm just a peasant).

Counting 2 posts (3 including this one) I have wasted words on replying as you surely feel the same (why did you even came here if you had nothing to say? who knows!), but don't worry, no apologize is needed, your highness.

 

I don't mind the Ancients as they are now. Before, they were just fodder enemies. Now there's actually a reason to go after them specifically.

 

Throwing Nullifiers into the mix is when it gets a bit BS, though, if you don't have a decent fire rate weapon. If an Ancient's in the shield, you have to take down the shield first, then the Ancient, then the Nullifier. Getting in close is an option, but now the Nullifier has more time to shoot at you since the Ancient has to be taken out first.

 

Mah men, run inside the bubble and one-shot the nullifier (they are generally pretty weak at all the decent levels and have very bad accuracy if you run towards them), then make some distances and shoot the healer. Don't go inside very populated bubbles or walls of flesh around healers, because that's not a good idea at all.

If you have a fast warframe or anyone with a mobility ability it's an easy job (you need some accuracy too), otherwise you will need to take some good distance above the ground to spot the healers, which could open you to nullifier precise shots, which usually one-shots players above level 50.

[Marthrym]

Well, you didn't said what's difficulty for you so I'm gonna guess you don't have a clue. Also the founder thing was just to empathize the immense gap between us, oh you royal highblood with manners of golds and words of ivory. I suppose you got lost when you saw the word "founder" and stopped reading just like you did when I wrote the first post, or that's at least what you make me think without any further explanation (which you obviously don't need to give because you are pinnacle of the community and I'm just a peasant).

Counting 2 posts (3 including this one) I have wasted words on replying as you surely feel the same (why did you even came here if you had nothing to say? who knows!), but don't worry, no apologize is needed, your highness.

 

So basically I should apologize for supporting the game 2 years ago? Seems legit... What the Hek does that have to do with anything in this thread? Why are you raving about a token status like that? YOU started this whole Founder BS on your own, out of nowhere, like it had some sort of relation with difficulty? You should slow down with the coffee, it got you real paranoid and nonsensical...

 

YOU mentioned the Founder thing. Not me. YOU went on about it like it was a big thing, which it really isn't. YOU said "your highness" and all that BS that has nothing to do with ANYTHING here. You really have nothing to say to back you up to use something completely irrelevant like that, do you? I never mentioned, or even THOUGHT about this, while YOU went on a rant about it on your own, and apparently you still are, for a reason I can't quite comprehend.

You want me to tell you what I consider challenge? Let me tell you whatchallenge  isn't instead. Challenge isn't numbers stacking up and up. Challenge isn't cheap and unfair mechanics. Challenge isn't spending more time fighting RNG and scaling than actually enjoy playing the game itself because it forces you go beyond what you usually would to beat it. How's that for a start?

 

If you think you're wasting your time answering me with nonsencial, out of topic posts, you're actually right. You're wasting both our time...

[XenosInfinity]

I agree with OP on this. Ancients healing their allies was fine, it encouraged you to take out the ancient first but meant you could still deal with things normally if you had the damage. Ancients giving damage reduction, in every void mission, has led to about twenty separate instances of me shooting something in the head with Lex Prime and wondering why it only took ten damage before the Ancient wanders in behind me and smacks me. The fact that Ancients apparently get the benefit of another Ancient's damage reduction is just plain ridiculous.

 

Making us prioritise targets is good. Making it ten times harder to deal with a priority target if there's two of them up at once, when we have no control of enemy spawn logic, is bad. Making those targets grant near-invulnerability to every non-priority target around them and to each other is ugly. I honestly would have preferred it if they'd jacked up the healing pulses and made Ancients immune to healing. At least we'd still have the ability to vaporise something instantly if we had to before dealing with the slow, lumbering, effectively unarmed melee unit that was trying to heal the rest of them.

[Lord_Xenon]

Corrupted Ancients are a very lazy enemydesign. After doing now multiple instances of survival, those targets are just no-brain blockers. They don't requiere skill, nor special tactics, they just need to stand around making fighting nonsense.

 

They even give those DR to shields(as far as I can tell about how slow I wrecked a Crewmen's ones). Even nullifier can be encountered by abilities(sometimes) or selfhardcountered(not many enemies inside of the bubble). But those? You are really forced to kill them. Why don't implement a no-brainer every 2 minutes hackingchallenge - if you fail your team is instant dead - ?!

 

So please change them as suggested(to % based DR from their current level) or just give enemies around them improved armorvalues(which can be hardcountered, isn't so drastic reducing or don't limit abilites too).

Edited July 13, 2015 by Lord_Xenon