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In Light Of Gmag Nerf


FissionStorm
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I just want to give my opinion on the recent GP nerf and an apparent, underlying issue that I've noticed.

 

I honestly think, with no offense intended, that DE is actively trying to implement gameplay rules and slowly removing the in-game freedom of the player base. Most of the time, the changes are made under DE's dictation that a situation is either too easy or not fun.

 

As most of you know, Greedy Pull used to allow to copious amounts of loot to a single collection point, but now only does so for herself. Far less recently was the nerf to Trinity's Blessing, removing the invulnerability and replacing it with scaling damage reduction. Pre-nerf however it was possible to turn any ally into a tank by building power duration. I do understand why these changes were made, to quicken up the pace of the game however i feel that they were no necessary, purely because they were the result of a players choice. Nothing and no one forced any player to play either of these ways, they only did so because they were efficient use of the systems in place. The most common Mag combo that I saw was GMag and Mesa, and again this was only because it was an efficient method for farming.

 

I discussed this with friends last night and one point that was made was that these 'exploits' could cause players to underrate the game and I disagree, because nowhere does the game itself tell you to do this or how to. These ideas were player crafted, tested and approved.Also, the Trinity strategy was around for months whereas the GMag strategy was observed and used for how long? A few weeks maybe?

 

 

DE I love you guys and I love your game, but please don't keep removing these concepts and game systems because players use them to your advantage. Yes, you want to make the game enjoyable, but if a player chooses to play boringly, that should be their prerogative, not yours. 

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DE is actively trying to implement gameplay rules and slowly removing the in-game freedom of the player base. Most of the time, the changes are made under DE's dictation that a situation is either too easy or not fun.

 

Isn't that the job of a game dev? I don't mean to rain on the player choice parade here, but making rules to create the desired level of difficulty or gameplay interaction the devs want is pretty much how development works. Nobody would complain if they removed something that allowed players to run and gun and mow down enemies in a stealth game, because that's just what kind of game it is. 

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i dont like the nerf myself. could have been done a few better ways in my opinion.

 

1. reduce her range on pull so she cant pull an entire map

2. change messa so she cant pick up orbs while she is in her shooting mode. ( same with all other frames with powers that constantly deplete energy. you want energy come out of it and get it.

Edited by Lord_Impaler
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the problem with gpull wasn't the players having fun with a good team composition but that it was simply soo good that players didn't wanted to play anything else. It was dividing the playerbase in 2 groups: The ones that farm and the ones that don't.

 

These 2 groups often came into conflict with each other. 1 group wanted to have fun in a PUG ad the other wanted to farm in the most optimal way. It became hard to find people in void missions that didn't wanted to gmag/mesa and therefore it was nerfed, to make the community better again. Not to mention all the flaming that those players give when something did go wrong in a farm.

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I don't have a problem if some players want to play a certain way that I find boring but when it becomes the norm and even sometimes gets forced on me then I take issue.

 

Recruiting was full of people only asking for GMag and Mesa and Survivals were camps most of the time and even when I was hosting people told me to camp because it was "efficient".

 

I don't mind people who abuse Hysteria's godmode because I can choose not to use it myself but when it was expected and sometimes even obligatory to use Greedy Pull if I wanted to play Mag then that's a problem.

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2. change messa so she cant pick up orbs while she is in her shooting mode. ( same with all other frames with powers that constantly deplete energy. you want energy come out of it and get it.

 

Pretty sure she can't. 

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Isn't that the job of a game dev? I don't mean to rain on the player choice parade here, but making rules to create the desired level of difficulty or gameplay interaction the devs want is pretty much how development works. Nobody would complain if they removed something that allowed players to run and gun and mow down enemies in a stealth game, because that's just what kind of game it is. 

No, it is not the dev's job to remove fun.

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In my opinion, Greedy Pull nerf was simply too strong. I think, preventing Greedy Pull from pulling in energy and health orbs would be far more beneficial. Fixes "broken" metas like Mesa with Gmag and yet remains useful by simply making collecting loot far easier. Now, it is another almost-useless power augmentation.

And I think, DE cannot understand one thing: players values their time. AKA, if there is any path you can level up your gear faster, many will take that path. And DE is simply destroying those paths without giving any other opportunities. Example? There you go, farming reputation for syndicates. I went for about 50 minutes T3 survival as Trinity, with Penta. I teamed up with Vauban, Loki and somebody else who I cannot remember. Point is, for doing almost one hour of wrecking endless waves of enemies, I gained 10k, roughly. This is simply hilarious. I spare my time to play this game for fun which works good and to gain some syndicate standing, but I start to see this is simply not efficient in measures of time I have to spare to get such amount of reputation and effort. If I went to Draco and played four rounds with three capped points and teamed up with "Draco XP/REP farm squad", I would simply get more. And that is reason people likes such metas and get butt-hurt if DE removes it. Because without such metas, we simply screwed. Farming almost one hour in T3 Surv to get roughly 10K? No thanks, I will go to Draco to have chill time and earn more standing. Give us reasonable reputation-gain system along with affinity and players will be satisfied. Because this is not fun how slow weapon progress is in normal mission for players who tries to play game normally.

Edited by Ayaz2010
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While i don't particulary like the nerf greedy pull got, i do agree it was nessicarry, however i do feel the nerf was misplaced because it was more mesa causing the problems than mag... Personally i would have made it to where mesa could not pick up anything while using peace maker (too busy shooting) and at the same time reducing the range greedy pull could reach, because after all being able to get stuff from across the map was a bit lazy.

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Edit: As for the augment itself, it would have been better to implement a change that prevented it for pulling energy and health orbs for everyone in the squad who isn't the Mag who pulled (let's face it, Gpull is still an excellent panic button) and maybe have it treated kind of like a nightmare mod, so it makes Pull cost more.

 

If a player is heavily rewarded for playing boringly, then it is DE's prerogative.

 

If a player is heavily rewarded for playing boringly, it's a problem with the core game mechanics and deserves to be fixed with more than just another band-aid fix on top of 100 others. This game is constantly becoming more and more of a burden on the players due to artificial difficulty, terrible enemy scaling, horrible RNG, and broken mechanics. DE should reward players for playing the way they want their game to be played, not break legitimate strategies because they're too lazy to fix their game.

 

Pretty sure she can't. 

 

Yes she can. And for some reason, she's also not affected the AFK timer while she's in Peacemaker if the Mesa is a client. Interesting bug, and I don't think it's been mentioned anywhere (I left it alone because I don't like wasting time and Mesa was the most efficient path to what I wanted).

 

 

I bet a solid 60% of this game's problems would be fixed pretty quickly if anyone in the DE offices except for Rebecca or Megan actually played the game without Dev Mode on.

Edited by timerwin63
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No, it is not the dev's job to remove fun.

 

It's their job to develop the game according to their vision or the direction they've been given. And if the players have a different idea, then it's also their job to reconcile those things. 

 

artificial difficulty, terrible enemy scaling, horrible RNG, and broken mechanics

 

Since we're talking about greedy pull, imagine if all of these things were fixed and we were playing a perfected version of Warframe. Would people just take the augment off their builds and stop camping? Whether greedy pull has anything to do with core problems in the game is irrelevant to the problems the augment itself has. 

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All this PJSalt cuz you gotta move around and pick up items.

 

Boo hoo hoo. What a horrible world we live in.

 

EDIT Oh hey perfect my 911th post. Better call the waaaaaaahhmbulance. 

Edited by DiosGX
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Since we're talking about greedy pull, imagine if all of these things were fixed and we were playing a perfected version of Warframe. Would people just take the augment off their builds and stop camping? Whether greedy pull has anything to do with core problems in the game is irrelevant to the problems the augment itself has. 

 

Edited in my input on the augment itself and the nerf. The point I was trying to get across with that post was that the nerf to the augment was a band-aid fix to a larger problem and it should be acknowledged as such.

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Pretty sure she can't. 

pretty sure your wrong. that is the whole problem DE are trying to fix. people rolling mesa and gmag on draco. mesa just stays in here peacemaker for the entire round while mag feeds her orbs.

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I just want to give my opinion on the recent GP nerf and an apparent, underlying issue that I've noticed.

 

I honestly think, with no offense intended, that DE is actively trying to implement gameplay rules and slowly removing the in-game freedom of the player base. Most of the time, the changes are made under DE's dictation that a situation is either too easy or not fun.

 

Balance

 

[bal-uh ns]

 

1. a state of equilibrium or equipoise; equal distribution of weight, amount, etc.
2. something used to produce equilibrium; counterpoise.
3. mental steadiness or emotional stability; habit of calm behavior, judgment, etc.
4. a state of bodily equilibrium:
He lost his balance and fell down the stairs.
5. an instrument for determining weight, typically by the equilibrium of a bar with a fulcrum at the center, from each end of which is suspended a scale or pan, one holding an object of known weight, and the other holding the object to be weighed.
6. the remainder or rest:
He carried what he could and left the balance for his brother to bring.
7. the power or ability to decide an outcome by throwing one's strength, influence, support, or the like, to one side or the other.
 
 
Just thought you needed to have that cleared up for you.
Edited by 4G3NT_0R4NG3
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No, it is not the dev's job to remove fun.

Its indeed their job and in pure smugness ill point out hypocrisy

Who are you to decide what devs find fun.

 

But indeed any limitation is removing player choice.

What if i wanted to play melee warlock at wow?? i cant, i dont have such choice, i can choose another class but it wont be warlock.

If i would want to solo new raid bosses i cant, i have no such option. 

Devs at blizzard decided that it would be more entertaining to raid with 10-30 other ppl and to have warlocks as range casters.

 

Its not devs job to give players everything they want, but to create entertaining product.

 

 

You want a game about clicking and numbers i have great proposition for you, barebones, barely any mechanics but you can click and see big numbers https://www.clickerheroes.com/

 

But here we have third person shooter, fast paced one with quite a bit of mechanics now, maybe its not a good idea to break it down to be button masher, eh??

Edited by Davoodoo
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*snip*

I've been asking for it to be just an orb nerf since the thread went up. Still no word. I liked using it as a mobile supply conduit, and wouldn't mind increased cost.

 

Also, a lot of it probably isn't laziness, but the fact that this community is so toxic. Buff? Salt. Nerf? Salt. Rework? Salt. How can they change anything if everyone will just complain? So they just go with the easiest/most vocal suggestions because they're forced to go for that or nothing at all. I just wish they'd bite the bullet and do what really needs to be done, though.

 

Incidentally, Glen plays without dev cheats on his other account. And apparently ends up on the leaderboards on occasion. Man knows his stuff. Some others, though, I can't say the same for.

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Are you seriously comparing old  trins abusable godmode to the Gmag nerf?

Wow.

How anyone couldn't see problems with that is beyond me.

 

At any rate, that is infact DE's job: To regulate the game in some way, like any dev.

Gpull was a bad idea from the start and how DE thought it was a good idea and that it wouldn't be exploited is beyond me.

The fact  people feel it even has a reason to exist highlights a well known underling problem with WF. One that I would rather see worked on rather then QQ'd about when DE actually forces them to play the game.

 

For a bit of clarity, I have no issue if people want to play that way, what I do have an issue with however, is when pugs becomes even more of a nightmare then it is because people will try to force you into roles that don't suit you or that you cannot fill.

Its hard enough for new players without people refusing to let them into voids because they don't have a mag with G pull, or whatever the go-to, meta wombo combo is the flavor of the month.

Lets not make it worse.

One of issues is the divide it creates when it gets this bad.

Edited by StinkyPygmy
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If a player is heavily rewarded for playing boringly, it's a problem with the core game mechanics and deserves to be fixed with more than just another band-aid fix on top of 100 others.

You can argue that all day, and I'll most likely agree with you. My point was directed at the statement I quoted

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mag actually just doing her job, supporting the team giving free blue orbs...

 

 

teacher: any questions?

 

mirage: whats the last planet in the solar system?

 

teacher: we already talk about it... its pluto

 

excalibur: what is pluto?

 

teacher: sigh.. a dwarf planet... do you even listen?

 

mesa: so pluto is a planet?

 

teacher: gawd damn!t

 

mag: sir.. i ne...

 

teacher: shut it...

 

mag: but...

 

teacher: Stop! NO MORE PLUTO!

 

mag: ....

 

 

story of mag.. the end

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mag actually just doing her job, supporting the team giving free blue orbs...

 

 

teacher: any questions?

 

mirage: whats the last planet in the solar system?

 

teacher: we already talk about it... its pluto

 

excalibur: what is pluto?

 

teacher: sigh.. a dwarf planet... do you even listen?

 

mesa: so pluto is a planet?

 

teacher: gawd damn!t

 

mag: sir.. i ne...

 

teacher: shut it...

 

mag: but...

 

teacher: Stop! NO MORE PLUTO!

 

mag: ....

 

 

story of mag.. the end

^Very much so.

 

thanks for the info about Pluto at the same time.. you have done this community a valuable service.  :)

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