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Ash's Rising Storm Augment - A Study


Sci_Ant
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So I like to play Ash every once in a while when I just want to kill stuff and for it to look cool. XD

 

With the recent release of Ash Prime I went back to re-evaluate my Bladestorm build and thought I could use Rising Storm since I have never used it before. So I tried to do some research on how it worked, on the forums and online, but could not get conclusive answers and wanted to see for myself how it would work in practice so I did couple of tests that I would like to share here.

 

Basic info about the combo multiplier from the wiki is here >

Combo Counter

Each successful consecutive melee hit against enemies with a Melee weapon equipped within a short period of time will start a Combo Counter that appears above the weapon UI, which tracks how many hits have been performed. Once a certain number of consecutive hits have been made, a Damage Multiplier will be given to the Melee weapon, increasing the weapon's overall damage. The Damage Multiplier increases as larger consecutive hit counts are achieved, allowing for greater damage against larger numbers of tougher enemies. The Combo Counter resets if no enemies are hit after 3 seconds.

The Damage Multiplier starts at 1.5X the weapon's base damage after five consecutive hits. The multiplier is increased by +.5X after achieving three times the number of hits of the previous multiplier, i.e. 15 consecutive hits yield a 2X Damage Multiplier, 45 consecutive hits yield 2.5X Damage, 135 hits yield 3X Damage, 405 hits yield 3.5x etc.

 

Currently there no known limit to the Damage Multiplier, thus it's theoretically possible to attain massive damage multiplier numbers of 5X or more. In practice, the number of possible consecutive hits is limited by the number of enemies, their durability, and the player's skill at connecting combos to other enemies.

 

Ash's Blade Storm contributes to the Combo Counter, allowing it to start and chain Combo hits.

 

Valkyr's Hysteria and Excalibur's Exalted Blade also utilize the Combo Counter, allowing their damage output to increase with consecutive attacks.

 

Despite its name, the Combo Counter should not be confused with the Combos performed using Stance Mods. The Combo Counter will count all melee attacks performed while equipping Melee weapons, including stealth attacks.

 

The Combo Counter appears to count attacks performed while having Primary or Secondary weapons equipped.

 

Immediately switching to a melee weapon within 4 seconds will show the amount of hits performed before the switch.

 

Melee hits against objects, like Mining Equipment, do not count towards the Combo Counter.

 

The Combo Counter does not increase the damage of prompted stealth attacks or prompted finisher attacks.

 

 

RISING STORM ONLY WITH BLADESTORM

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FIRST TEST

 

This was to determine whether the melee combo multiplier affected Bladestorm when a melee weapon was not equipped. So I did 2 tests, one without a melee and one with a melee equipped.

 

In both tests I get the same damage numbers :

2216 = 1 x damage at first strike

3324 = 1.5 x damage after a few strikes

4432 = 2 x damage after even more strikes

 

The damage in both the videos correspond meaning that the combo counter works for Bladestorm regardless of whether a melee weapon is equipped or not.

 

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SECOND TEST

 

This was to test the duration of the combo counter when I had Rising Storm equipped. The build used was 67 % power duration and 200 % power strength.

 

The last damage after reaching 45 strikes is 9983 or almost 10k which is in line with the expected value. The combo multiplier lasts around 4 seconds, the expected value of 3 x 2 x 0.67 = 4 seconds.

 

This means that Rising Storm is affected by Duration mods and will give 6 seconds only with 100 % base power duration.

 

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THIRD TEST

 

This was to see if Bladestorm is affected by stealth multipliers or not. I spawned a few Butchers, let them go into non alert state, then attacked them while invisible. The build used was 185 % power strength to give 3700 damage per strike. I also went ingame to make sure and luckily got a Stealth kills mini objective to prove it was not affected by stealth without a doubt.

 

The damage observed on the first few strikes in both videos is 3694 or almost 3700, the expected value.

 

This means that invisibility or stealth multipliers do not affect Bladestorm.

 

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FINAL BUILD

 

So I made a build for Rising Storm as follows >

h9K8doQ.jpg

 

Tested this build in the Sim and in game to get the following results >

5G7yHkH.jpg

32pJjB6.jpg

 

Managed to easily reach 139 x combo with 3 x damage multiplier after around 3 Bladestorm's in a Grineer defense and 182 x combo with many chained Bladestorms when there were many enemies in T3 defense.

 

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CONCULSIONS (TL;DR) :

 

1. Rising Storm and combo multiplier works regardless of whether a melee weapon is equipped or not.

2. Rising Storm augment is affected by duration mods after applying the 100 % increase (only for negative or base duration).

 

Therefore, Rising Storm Duration for negative or base power duration = 6 x (Power duration/100)

 

3. Invisibility or stealth multipliers do not affect Bladestorm damage.

 

Advantages of using Rising Storm with Bladestorm:

 

1. To keep the Bladestorm damage at a high multiplier like 2.5 x or 3 x at all times for Bladestorm spammers. This means that after increasing the combo multiplier from a first Bladestorm, it will apply the increased damage directly on the first enemy in the next Bladestorm initiated within 6 seconds in a 100% base duration build.

2. To make it easier to reach a high combo multiplier of 2.5 x or 3 x while chaining Bladestorms.

3. To increase the damage of Bladestorm in Duration specific builds for more invisibility, without having to use power strength mods.

4. To gain more duration for invisibility while sacrificing power strength mods and not losing overall damage output.

 

As an example of the last point, I was previously using a 230 % power strength build so that would give me 9200 damage per strike after gaining a 2 x damage multiplier from 15 strikes. The overall damage per strike including bleedout would be 31740. Without Rising Storm I would lose that damage after 3 seconds of not using another Bladestorm after the first one ends.

 

With my Rising Storm build with 185 % power strength I could reach a damage multiplier of 2.5 with 45 strikes on a large group of enemies or by chaining BS on smaller groups within 6 seconds of each other to get 9250 damage per strike that I can maintain between Bladestorms. The total damage including bleedout would be 31912.5 per strike, but the difference here is that I will maintain that damage and gain more damage between Bladestorms.

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RISING STORM WITH BLADESTORM AND THEN MELEE

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These tests were done to determine the effect of duration mods on Rising Storm augment when used along with melee. For this 4 tests were done to determine the Rising Storm and melee combo counter duration with different power durations from mods.

Youtube taking too long to process videos so I've uploaded them in a compressed file to Google Docs > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Iv0IAMwbTERVA2U0xGVmlPdXM/view?usp=sharing

 

In the first test 169 % power Duration was used giving around 8 seconds on both the Rising Storm combo and Melee combo counters, whereas it should give around 10.

 

In the second test 232 % power duration was used and it showed around 9 to 10 seconds on both the Rising Storm combo and Melee combo counters, whereas it should give around 14 seconds.

 

In the third test 282 % power duration (max) was used and it showed around 11 seconds on both the Rising Storm combo and Melee combo counters, whereas it should give around 17 seconds.

 

It has been discussed online and on the wiki that the cap on the duration is 8 seconds but this is not the case. The effective cap on power duration mods may be 8 seconds after which there is a drastic reduction for any power duration above 133 % which should give 8 seconds. To confirm this the last test was done with 141 % power duration.

 

The result is that the combo multiplier lasts for around 7 seconds instead of 8. This leads to the conclusion that any power duration over 100 % has a much smaller effect on the Rising Storm augment than expected.

 

The final conclusion is that the calculation for power duration for the augment is as follows:

 

Rising Storm Duration for positive power duration = 3 + (3 * Power Duration/100)

 

To verify:

 

1. In the first test the duration is 8 seconds and according to the equation duration = 3 + 3 * 1.69 = 3 + 5.07 = 8.07 seconds

 

2. In the second test the duration is around 9 to 10 seconds and according to the equation duration = 3 + 3 * 2.32 = 9.96 seconds

 

3. In the third test the duration is around 11 seconds and according to the equation duration = 3 + 3 * 2.82 = 11.46 seconds

 

4. In the fourth test the duration is around 7 seconds and according to the equation duration = 3 + 3 * 1.41 = 7.23 seconds

 

Since all four of the values correspond closely we can safely assume that the calculation for positive power duration works according to the above formula.

 

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FINAL BUILD

 

Bladestorm with melee build >

zGrTplU.jpg

 

141 % power duration is used to get around 11 seconds on Smoke Screen and around 7 seconds on Rising Storm melee combo counter. Overextended is used to reach more enemies with each cast of Bladestorm so as to get a higher combo counter initially. It can be replaced with Stretch if playing in a smaller tileset like a defense since enemies will be closer together anyway.

 

More duration can be used as per your preference.

 

Melee centric build > 

 

This involves a lot more duration while keeping Bladestorm only as a combo counter initiator.

G7Qc2vV.jpg

 

In game result of the above build, while using a low ranked weapon with a few mods on high level Grineer map (Kiste, Ceres), I easily managed to reach the 3 x multiplier with using 1 Bladestorm and then just meleeing while invisible. This shows how potent this mod is for a melee Ash  >

 

72b09SA.jpg

 

Even better results with infested, use Bladestorm once and managed to reach 500 + combo in a short time on a Dark Sector Survival.

 

Ycrj3ET.jpg

 

 

 

> In game results from user LazerSkink, using a melee centric combo builder build > https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/489835-ashs-rising-storm-augment-a-study/page-2#entry5515084

 

xMHeD0t.jpg

nQLr7VR.jpg

 

Build used >

 

8kdfIi1.jpg

 

 

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CONCULSIONS (TL;DR) :

 

1. Melee attacks after use of a Rising Storm Bladestorm treats each melee strike as a part of the Rising Storm duration resetting it to its initial duration with each strike. (For example: 141% Power duration gives 7.46 seconds on the combo counter, which resets to 7.46 seconds for any melee strike done after the Bladestorm.)

 

2. The melee combo counter is not reset to 0 when it is started and then you melee strike in the air, miss strikes, hit objects or by using other powers. Therefore, one can hit anything or copter without risk of losing the combo counter.

 

Advantages of using Rising Storm with Bladestorm and then Meleeing:

 

1. To quickly gain high multipliers on the melee combo counter and then having an extended duration in which to melee to continue to gain combo counts.

 

2. To gain higher period on invisibility and use Bladestorm not as a spam ability but to gain high melee damage and increase the melee damage through more melee strikes.

 

3. To gain more melee damage much faster in melee centric situations such as Infested maps or playing with a Disarm Loki.

 

Thanks for reading and I hope it helps!

 

 

My other guides >

Sci_Ant's Comprehensive Chroma Armor Build Guide [in-Depth With Calculations And Results]

[Guide] Parkour 2.0 Tips And Tricks / Tutorial Videos Collection

Edited by Sci_Ant
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The biggest problem I have with this augment is it's most useful with a particular enemy concentration - enough enemies to keep the counter going, but not so many that you could keep it active without the augment regardless. Plus, it somewhat encourages the pure spam of Bladestorm, since melee counter gained from melee strikes after Bladestorm don't get the bonus (obviously). 

 

It doesn't fit my personal playstyle because I refuse to mash 4, but that's besides the point. I've tried to make it work into a melee build; BS then attack stuff, BS and teleport-execute but the downtime is long enough between groups of enemies on most maps that it doesn't work out. You essentially *have* to kill the last enemy in a particular pack with a Bladestorm, or that counter's going away and you've lost the benefit.

 

Finally, micro-managing the combo counter can be rather disruptive to the gameplay experience. I don't want to see an enemy and think 'oh I have to kill him using a particular attack or I lose my buff', I just want to do whatever feels fun at that moment. But again, that's a playstyle issue, I suppose.

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^ Thanks everyone for the appreciation, I'm glad it helped!

 

 

The biggest problem I have with this augment is it's most useful with a particular enemy concentration - enough enemies to keep the counter going, but not so many that you could keep it active without the augment regardless. Plus, it somewhat encourages the pure spam of Bladestorm, since melee counter gained from melee strikes after Bladestorm don't get the bonus (obviously). 

 

It doesn't fit my personal playstyle because I refuse to mash 4, but that's besides the point. I've tried to make it work into a melee build; BS then attack stuff, BS and teleport-execute but the downtime is long enough between groups of enemies on most maps that it doesn't work out. You essentially *have* to kill the last enemy in a particular pack with a Bladestorm, or that counter's going away and you've lost the benefit.

 

Finally, micro-managing the combo counter can be rather disruptive to the gameplay experience. I don't want to see an enemy and think 'oh I have to kill him using a particular attack or I lose my buff', I just want to do whatever feels fun at that moment. But again, that's a playstyle issue, I suppose.

 

I found that to be the case myself, but since I always use Bladestorm when I'm using Ash it's slightly more useful for me and I know that I will have enough time to chain the combo without looking at the combo multiplier since I mostly wont have a melee equipped with Ash, to be able to aim at enemies more easily.

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I like to incorporate teleport rather than just bladestorm constantly, opening up the big guy out of the enemy to a nice finisher, then kill the remaining small stuff with the bladestorm, is quite nice to perform and watch imo.

 

The animations are awesome & real fun to play, might not be the best build on paper, but is downright fun.

 

But I'm with Darzk on this, in that I refuse to play the press4win type of style, it's just not fun at all.

 

Smoke shadow augment too I feel is worth the slot when running with squads that are not very well progressed in the game,

as this opens their eyes to the different abilities that are on offer.

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I like to incorporate teleport rather than just bladestorm constantly, opening up the big guy out of the enemy to a nice finisher, then kill the remaining small stuff with the bladestorm, is quite nice to perform and watch imo.

 

The animations are awesome & real fun to play, might not be the best build on paper, but is downright fun.

 

But I'm with Darzk on this, in that I refuse to play the press4win type of style, it's just not fun at all.

 

Smoke shadow augment too I feel is worth the slot when running with squads that are not very well progressed in the game,

as this opens their eyes to the different abilities that are on offer.

 

Thanks for your input but this thread is not about whether Bladestorm spam is right or wrong, or about the other augments or powers. It's about how Rising Storm helps if you choose to Bladestorm spam, which is up to the player.

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I primarily use Blade Storm for combos with melee and only begin the run with one or two Blade Storms. I go to Dark Sector Survival and at the point where spawns become more active I Blade Storm once and let it begin. I use a high duration build with base power strength, but that's just me.

 

I have not bothered placing Rising Storm in a Blade Storm build of mine just yet.

 

This is something that happened a while ago:

xMHeD0t.jpg

Edited by LazerSkink
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I primarily use Blade Storm for combos with melee and only begin the run with one or two Blade Storms. I go to Dark Sector Survival and at the point where spawns become more active I Blade Storm once and let it begin. I use a high duration build with base power strength, but that's just me.

 

I have not bothered placing Rising Storm in a Blade Storm build of mine just yet.

 

This is something that happened a while ago:

xMHeD0t.jpg

 

 

Holy crap lol. Is that from just BS or melee? Or were you spamming BS at that point?

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With this build;

- aura is Steel Charge

- Transient Fortitude R10

- Primed Continuity R10

- Intensify

- Constitution

- Streamline

- Primed Flow R10

- Rising Storm

I can keep up the counter for a long time. If you use Rising Storm you have to go melee only. At late game get that 2.5x multiplier with a few strikes with a fast melee weapon while invisible and activate Blade Storm. I find this balanced build really fun to play with. If you don't like using melee, don't even bother with the augment.

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Seeing some weird posts here about Blade Storm spamming which is confusing me a bit.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but Rising Storm's combo multiplier duration applies to melee attacks too so Rising Storm does not necessarily mean Blade Storm spamming for damage but rather to maintain combo multiplier for melee damage.

And Rising Storm increases the duration no matter how many enemies are targeted by Blade Storm as long as you hit at least one enemy. It's pretty much why I always use Narrow Minded with Rising Storm. Kinda sucks that I can't use Teleport for mobility but at least I can go invisible and keep my combo multiplier up.

It makes more sense to me to use regular melee for damage at high combo multipliers since it can take advantage of the stealth melee damage bonus as well rather than just spamming Blade Storm.

 

 

Only situation where I would spam Blade Storm is if I have a low rank Arcane Trickery and need to fight a tough nullifier posse. But then that doesn't really have anything to do with Rising Storm anymore so I'm gonna stop here.

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Holy crap lol. Is that from just BS or melee? Or were you spamming BS at that point?

 

 

I only used Blade Storm very few times at the beginning. Like I said, I only use Blade Storm when spawns begin to increase, so I used it and began to melee only from there. The use of Teleport helped when spawns paused. Thirty-four minutes into Cameria is not as bad as you think. I did end up extracting after 1077 because I only went there to exceed 1000. At that point, the enemies were still not difficult enough.

 

I plan on going higher soon because I still have yet to take Ash Prime on a combo run.

Edited by LazerSkink
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Seeing some weird posts here about Blade Storm spamming which is confusing me a bit.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but Rising Storm's combo multiplier duration applies to melee attacks too so Rising Storm does not necessarily mean Blade Storm spamming for damage but rather to maintain combo multiplier for melee damage.

 

Doesn't the extra duration affect attacks made by Bladestorm only? I mean if you use BS then use melee attacks won't the counter duration reset to 3 seconds with every melee attack? This is what I gathered from the wiki, I may be wrong so I will test it tomorrow.

 

Maybe this will work well in an infested map where the enemies are constantly within melee range.

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Doesn't the extra duration affect attacks made by Bladestorm only? I mean if you use BS then use melee attacks won't the counter duration reset to 3 seconds with every melee attack? This is what I gathered from the wiki, I may be wrong so I will test it tomorrow.

Nope, it works for all melee attacks. Wiki mentions this too.

 

Ok so it's like this. Let's say you have duration modded so your Rising Storm makes the multiplier last for 10 seconds.

You use Blade Storm and get the 10 second multiplier.

Your melee attacks within the first seven seconds afterwards will raise the combo multiplier and their multiplier duration will be longer than the usual three seconds without Rising Storm.

 

That's why I love using Narrow Minded to minimize the number of targets/shorten the number of animations on Blade Storm while boosting my combo multiplier duration.

And then Smoke Screen gets a nice duration boost too if I ever need another melee damage buff.

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I only used Blade Storm very few times at the beginning. Like I said, I only use Blade Storm when spawns begin to increase, so I used it and began to melee only from there. The use of Teleport helped when spawns paused. Thirty-four minutes into Cameria is not as bad as you think. I did end up extracting after 1077 because I only went there to exceed 1000. At that point, the enemies were still not difficult enough.

 

I plan on going higher soon because I still have yet to take Ash Prime on a combo run.

 

I have used your image as an example of how well the Rising Storm augment works with melee after Bladestorm, hope you don't mind!  Realised you didn't use the augment, sorry about that. Removed the image.

 

Nope, it works for all melee attacks. Wiki mentions this too.

 

Ok so it's like this. Let's say you have duration modded so your Rising Storm makes the multiplier last for 10 seconds.

You use Blade Storm and get the 10 second multiplier.

Your melee attacks within the first seven seconds afterwards will raise the combo multiplier and their multiplier duration will be longer than the usual three seconds without Rising Storm.

 

That's why I love using Narrow Minded to minimize the number of targets/shorten the number of animations on Blade Storm while boosting my combo multiplier duration.

And then Smoke Screen gets a nice duration boost too if I ever need another melee damage buff.

 

Thanks for this info! I went back and tested it all out and found out how positive duration affects Rising Storm and have updated the guide with a full new section on using melee with Rising Storm. :)

 

I prefer a rank 2 FE instead of a higher one, gives you 125% duration for a 7.5 sec melee multiplier and a 10 sec SS, and it's not too hard to keep going constantly at 40 energy per BS.

 

From my tests I found that the formula for Rising Storm duration while using positive power duration is = 3 + (3 * Power Dur/100) and not 6 x Power Dur/100 as previously found. The latter is only used to calculate duration when using negative or base 100 % power duration.

 

Your duration will be 6.75 seconds with Rising Storm and 125 % power duration.

Edited by Sci_Ant
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I have used your image as an example of how well the Rising Storm augment works with melee after Bladestorm, hope you don't mind!

That... doesn't even make any sense. He didn't equip the augment to get that kind of combo counter. If anything, it's a good example of how pointless the augment is when enemies are populous enough to keep the combo multiplier going without the augment.

 

Edit: Also, jesus it's getting longer! Another book of content, courtesy of Sci_Ant.

Edited by Darzk
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That... doesn't even make any sense. He didn't equip the augment to get that kind of combo counter. If anything, it's a good example of how pointless the augment is when enemies are populous enough to keep the combo multiplier going without the augment.

 

Edit: Also, jesus it's getting longer! Another book of content, courtesy of Sci_Ant.

lol well just pretend he did equip the augment

 

Rising Storm is still important even when there are plenty of enemies on the map if you solo things like survival or interception where you need to stop melee/BS to activate life support or take an interception point.

 

Even with Rising Storm and max duration, I still have trouble reaching 500+ combos unless I cheese out and wail away on ancient healer mobs.

 

 

 

Thanks for this info! I went back and tested it all out and found out how positive duration affects Rising Storm and have updated the guide with a full new section on using melee with Rising Storm. :)

 

 

From my tests I found that the formula for Rising Storm duration while using positive power duration is = 3 + (3 * Power Dur/100) and not 6 x Power Dur/100 as previously found. The latter is only used to calculate duration when using negative or base 100 % power duration.

 

Your duration will be 6.75 seconds with Rising Storm and 125 % power duration.

Well dang, I'm still wrong with how the duration worked for melee after BS. Thanks for clearing that up.

Edited by Yopee
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That... doesn't even make any sense. He didn't equip the augment to get that kind of combo counter. If anything, it's a good example of how pointless the augment is when enemies are populous enough to keep the combo multiplier going without the augment.

 

Edit: Also, jesus it's getting longer! Another book of content, courtesy of Sci_Ant.

 

Thanks for pointing that out, I must have missed it while reading LazerSkink's post since I was thinking they used it. And don't worry, it won't get any longer, I've pretty much tested everything related to it. :P

 

lol well just pretend he did equip the augment

 

Rising Storm is still important even when there are plenty of enemies on the map if you solo things like survival or interception where you need to stop melee/BS to activate life support or take an interception point.

 

Even with Rising Storm and max duration, I still have trouble reaching 500+ combos unless I cheese out and wail away on ancient healer mobs.

Well dang, I'm still wrong with how the duration worked for melee after BS. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I'm glad I could help!

 

And yes it seems to work best on melee enemies like infested, since I can never get it to work until I reach 30 + waves on a void defense, even with 7.5 seconds on the augment.

Edited by Sci_Ant
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I have used your image as an example of how well the Rising Storm augment works with melee after Bladestorm, hope you don't mind!  Realised you didn't use the augment, sorry about that. Removed the image.

 

 

Thanks for this info! I went back and tested it all out and found out how positive duration affects Rising Storm and have updated the guide with a full new section on using melee with Rising Storm. :)

 

 

From my tests I found that the formula for Rising Storm duration while using positive power duration is = 3 + (3 * Power Dur/100) and not 6 x Power Dur/100 as previously found. The latter is only used to calculate duration when using negative or base 100 % power duration.

 

Your duration will be 6.75 seconds with Rising Storm and 125 % power duration.

 

 

That... doesn't even make any sense. He didn't equip the augment to get that kind of combo counter. If anything, it's a good example of how pointless the augment is when enemies are populous enough to keep the combo multiplier going without the augment.

 

Edit: Also, jesus it's getting longer! Another book of content, courtesy of Sci_Ant.

 

 

That is false, I did equip the augment to get that kind of combo counter. No enemy spawns in game support a 4 second timer.

 

lol well just pretend he did equip the augment

 

Rising Storm is still important even when there are plenty of enemies on the map if you solo things like survival or interception where you need to stop melee/BS to activate life support or take an interception point.

 

Even with Rising Storm and max duration, I still have trouble reaching 500+ combos unless I cheese out and wail away on ancient healer mobs.

 

 

 

Well dang, I'm still wrong with how the duration worked for melee after BS. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

 

I did use the augment, I have no idea what you're talking about.

j3YDipo.jpg

 

 

You may use my original image as reference if you please, but note that I only used Blade Storm about 2-3 times and then melee only from there.

 

The sole purpose of this build is to gain a high combo. This is purely for fun and my only goal when I uset his build for combos is nothing but combos.

Edited by LazerSkink
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