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The Riplining Ancients Really Need To Stop.


Spobbles
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Countering riplines has long been something the community has wanted, but now it's becoming more necessary. 

 

 

Around the time the Corrupted Ancients got their damage immunity buff (I whined about that here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/481427-the-corrupted-ancients-need-to-stop/ ) all ancients also got an AI change that makes them use their riplines more. 

 

And by more, I mean every single time they see you. In the void and infested levels it's constant and extremely annoying. If they're going to do this so much then there needs to be a way to counter it. Rolling works to some degree, but there is simply no way you're going to see every single one coming, especially considering they can fire their riplines sideways on occasion. 

 

My suggestion is to reduce the impact of a ripline hitting a player from a guaranteed knockdown to a stagger, and give a momentary delay between the ripline hitting and the ancient starting to pull the player.

During this delay the player can counter the ripline by dodging (shift). The delay should be long enough that it's not impossible to perform the action, but short enough that good reflexes are required to make the dodge.

 

A counter-pull against the ancient can also by implemented this way. 

 

This can also be applied to Grineer Scorpions. 

 

 

That's all.

 

 

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Around the time the Corrupted Ancients got their damage immunity buff (I whined about that here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/481427-the-corrupted-ancients-need-to-stop/ 

buff? what buff ?! as i remember it has been nerfed - it no longer stack

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/490942-hotfix-16115/?p=5482127

 

 

UWva8ag.png

 
Edited by Cracken
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A very big problem indeed, but its not just this its also the frequency of the Ancients as well. For a heavy unit I'm surprised how many you can find in one spot after a mere 8 waves in Sechura or otherwise. Oh and guess what, they ALL use the ripline ON SIGHT.

Imo its absurd, one could be dodged if the stars aligned. But 3+ at once isn't fair at all

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I'm sorry but I have to say this:

 

I'm totally against changes of this sort for a few reasons. First, we need to have some sort of CC-ing enemies so that we have a challenge and that applies to Ancients a lot since they're HEAVY units aka units who have to be tough and scare you. Of course there's no sure-thing method of blocking them, that doesn't benefit at all to their image as opponents that make you cautious and intimidate you.

I don't think we need to make it easier for ourselves to dodge them, what's more, they're infested and are made to hinder you and your position to compensate in some way their lack of range units. It's a matter of tact and strategy, play your cards right and like me you'll get used to avoiding them and taking them out at a distance as the priority targets they are meant to be.

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Making ancients the 'do everything' unit was a bad idea.

 

They have heavy melee. They're tanks. They stack heals, disrupt shields, become sponges. Taking the rip cord off the scorpion and copy/pasting it onto the ancient and giving it more range and low travel time was an awful, awful idea, and in an enemy faction that specializes in crowding the screen with crap, it just simply does not work, especially not when ancients spawn in the DOZENS.

 

Infested could do with a CC frame, but this is NOT the way to do it.

 

Giving it to a new unit that spawns less and it actually noticeable would have been a better move.

Something like Lickers from Resident Evil. As it stands now, ancients are priority units, but so are MOAs. Both spawn in the dozens. And when everything is a priority, you can't prioritize anything.

Edited by AdunSaveMe
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I'm sorry but I have to say this:

 

I'm totally against changes of this sort for a few reasons. First, we need to have some sort of CC-ing enemies so that we have a challenge and that applies to Ancients a lot since they're HEAVY units aka units who have to be tough and scare you. Of course there's no sure-thing method of blocking them, that doesn't benefit at all to their image as opponents that make you cautious and intimidate you.

I don't think we need to make it easier for ourselves to dodge them, what's more, they're infested and are made to hinder you and your position to compensate in some way their lack of range units. It's a matter of tact and strategy, play your cards right and like me you'll get used to avoiding them and taking them out at a distance as the priority targets they are meant to be.

 

That'd be fine if these "Heavy units" didn't spawn as much as the trash mobs. 

 

With my solution properly implemented they'd still be a significant threat, and only good reflexes would stop us suffering the same fate we do now. There would still be no "sure-thing" method of blocking them.

 

I'm not suggesting we should be able to render their disabling attack useless all of the time, just that we have some way of resisting it if we have the skill required.

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Their Riplines should at least make sense. I've literally seen an Ancient fire one BACKWARDS at me.

They should be directional. Right now they lock on to players, so they can be fired sideways and backwards, even more so if you're not the host of the game. There's also no windup, the travel time is miniscule, the range is ludicrous and the line is practically invisible in groups, so before you can say "which one of these ancients do I have to kill before it hooks me", you've been torn down, thrown around and pinballed to oblivion.

 

You can barely roll out of the way or block even if you do see it.

 

 

Another change it needs is an on-player cooldown. If you've been hooked in the last, say, five seconds, you can't be hit by it again. Easy way to stop pinballing.

Edited by AdunSaveMe
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Ancient's Grapple Hooks are certainly ridiculous.

the Ancient starts using it literally the same frame you come into sight of it. so by the time the Player sees the Ancient, the Grapple Hook is already 3/4 of the way to the Player.

!)*%!#$)*^%$#*!#$^

Ancients should be choosing to use the Grapple Hooks to get an Enemy closer. not automatically doing it the Microsecond they see a Tenno.

i.e. if a Tenno is too far away, use the Grapple Hook. doesn't apply to when the Ancient is just starting to engage an Enemy. atleast enforce a minimum amount of time for the Ancient to use it when it spots a distant Enemy. like 1 second.

i'd be very much okay with a small window to be able to Roll off of it as well. (and if Rolling off of it made Valkyr use Ripline on them and yank them down, that would be hilarious)

as for pinballing - From Software has a nice solution to this in their games. if a Player is knocked down by something, they are literally invulnerable until they stand back up. the only further Damage they can take is the Enemy that knocked them down finishing it's Attack Sequence.

all other Enemies are 100% incapable of Damaging you or affecting you in any way until you stand back up.

now, Warframe doesn't necessarily need to do that, but being unable to be Grapple Hooked for 2 seconds after you've been Grapple Hooked, would certainly keep you from being dragged around in circles for 10 seconds. this is important, because unlike Dark Souls, you're not invulnerable while being dragged around. if you die while being dragged around in a circle, you had no Player Agency to stop it happening (especially since Ancients Grapple you the Microsecond you come into view currently).

That'd be fine if these "Heavy units" didn't spawn as much as the trash mobs.

as far as the Infested is concerned, Ancients are Medium Units. Edited by taiiat
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Dont know about everyone else, but i reliably evade Ancient riplines by not standing still.

oh, you can, sometimes.

but either way, the next Frame from when you come into view of them, the Grapple Hook is in flight to you.

strafing a lot can reduce the likelyness to get hit, but you haven't even seen the Ancient yet (the time it takes for your eyes to send signals and your brain to process should be considered atleast 100ms to account for varying reaction times between people).

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oh, you can, sometimes.

but either way, the next Frame from when you come into view of them, the Grapple Hook is in flight to you.

strafing a lot can reduce the likelyness to get hit, but you haven't even seen the Ancient yet (the time it takes for your eyes to send signals and your brain to process should be considered atleast 100ms to account for varying reaction times between people).

No... more often than not ive already shot the Ancient when it comes into view.

 

The one or two out of 10 that manage to get a hook airborne have it deflected by good ol Link, and are often knocked down for it themselves.

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It really just needs about 0.5 seconds more reaction time. Tapping shift to roll has a significant delay, since you have to press the key and then release before it registers as a roll command. Even then I'm able to roll-dodge most ancient hooks in the void, and I have Constitution for the times I don't. A little variance on when ancients use their hook would be nice, too. Right now it's a given that an ancient will use its hook once it gets in range and has a clear line of sight. It's so predictable you can start your roll before it begins its hooking animation.

 

Opening a door to find an ancient has already shot its hook and it's 90% of the way to my face is BS, though. That should change.

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Ugh the "Handspring" suggestion again... "Take away something you really need and put Handspring there... just for the Grapple Hook Ancioents' Is this the same person who suggested the same thing in a similar complaint thread about Scorpions?

 

We shouldn't have to waste a mod spot just for one enemy - that enemy should be treated (programmed) as a special unit and not spawning in numbers like common foes. Handspring is not the fix, re-programming is the real fix.

 

Some posts say they don't think it needs to be changed, well don't you know that THIS is a change? They weren't doing that until recently. THAT change needs to be adjusted. I had ancients pull me from across the level. They are looking to pull me from very high spots, where they used to just walk around like they didn't now I was there, they now look straight at me, waiting for me to slip up. They mob in and yes, pinball you. Its like the first thing they do is throw that hook - and now they can throw it from ridiculous distances (seems like that distance buff only started about a week or so ago). Here's an example:

 

dL9cujE.jpg

 

You see where the stairs meet the walkway? Had an Ancient pull me from THERE. Actually I was a little further back. That's an unacceptable distance to grapple hook a player - and I think very cheap. They don't just pull you to an open space either - there are usually a big mob of nasties that you don't want to get close to that they drag you into. Now if they are outside camera view - how you gonna handspring / dodge that?

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Those moments when you are coptering at a high speed with the Tipedo and get riplined mid-air.

 

Another one of my favorites is the dual ripline ride of fun where a second ripline hooked just as the first one is finishing. Oh, while at the same time pulling you through the sticky ground spit from the Moa's for extra slip and slide excitement.

 

 

buff? what buff ?! as i remember it has been nerfed - it no longer stack

 

The effects don't stack but what others may mean is that the aura should not apply to other Ancient Healers. If 2 Ancient Healers are near each other, they shouldn't buff each other.

 

 

 

 

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