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Supra Is Not The Only Old Weapon That Needed A Buff.


Cerenax
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By no means am I criticizing the buff to the Supra. On the contrary, I think it needs it really bad. But I did like to remember that there are many other old weapons that need buffs just as bad if not more than the Supra.

 

Hind, Ignis, Embolist, Paracyst, Panthera, Mitter, Burston (Prime), Sicarus (Prime), Grinlok, Vulkar, Tetra, Non-rakta Ballistica, Viper, Spectra are all in need of buffs. Please don't be forget about those weapons.

 

Edit: Dera, Buzzlok, Kraken, Twin Gremlins and Flux Rifle too.

Edited by lvl999ArchNecromancerIRL
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Don't forget about the Dera, Buzzlok, all the machete type weapons, all scythes, Dark Sword, Dark Dagger and many more. Alot of these weapons are real unique and very eye candy but it's annoying that they underperform and it's sad since all weapons should be good anywhere since all of them are unique.

 

EDIT: forgot to mention the Seer... the first and truest hand cannon.

Edited by CTanGod
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Grinlok can handle itself in most content (As can Burston P), but that's really just because of Augments..
 

We're running into a problem - DE obviously wants us to be able to have weapons that we enjoy using and are capable of using because of their stats - but they shouldn't be so easy to get if they're strong, because of newer players(trying to get access to them that is). They build hype for weapons, partially for sales, but they won't really get any sales if it's a low-tier weapon - most of the community is veterans or at least high leveled players. So most of the new weapons are catered towards these players.

So we have a vague correlation: 

Old weapons ---> new players

New weapons ---> old players

 

So when we bring up these topics like new weapons overcasting old ones... this is a problem. New players shouldn't have weapons that make the newbie missions easy, and give them access to high leveled content, but at the same time, they should be able to enjoy newer content, and older players should be able to enjoy older content.

 

I see no easy solution.

Edited by CruelCrow
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Grinlok can handle itself in most content (As can Burston P), but that's really just because of Augments..

 

We're running into a problem - DE obviously wants us to be able to have weapons that we enjoy using and are capable of using because of their stats - but they shouldn't be so easy to get if they're strong, because of newer players. They build hype for weapons, partially for sales, but they won't really get any sales if it's a low-tier weapon - most of the community is veterans or at least high leveled players. So most of the new weapons are catered towards these players.

So we have a vague correlation: 

Old weapons ---> new players

New weapons ---> old players

 

So when we bring up these topics like new weapons overcasting old ones... this is a problem. New players shouldn't have weapons that make the newbie missions easy, and give them access to high leveled content, but at the same time, they should be able to enjoy newer content, and older players should be able to enjoy older content.

 

I see no easy solution.

The Supra one was a pretty easy answer, though, since it was one of the most difficult to acquire guns in the game. Panthera needs a melee buff, since you have to sacrifice a weapon to get it, as does the Miter, which drops only from Vor/Kril on Phobos - all hard to earn weapons.
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The Supra one was a pretty easy answer, though, since it was one of the most difficult to acquire guns in the game. Panthera needs a melee buff, since you have to sacrifice a weapon to get it, as does the Miter, which drops only from Vor/Kril on Phobos - all hard to earn weapons.

 

Don't forget about Embolist which requires MR8, 5 mutagen mass and a forma.

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Embolist, Spectra, Grinlok, Burston Prime....these are fine with Augments.

Vulkar is okay....maybe some slight tweaks.

Paracyst and Miter need small tweaks....If Miter had triple damage returned on fully charged shots that would be great...especially since Heavycaliber makes Blades exit barrel at Nintey degrees.

Paracyst could use a Ballistica mechanic:

Changed to Burst & Charged shot....charged harpoon does 3 times damage to be equivalent of all 3 bullets from a burst fire.

Zoom can now allow for aiming.

I run the Embolist frequently and Spectra was my most used weapon (pre-buff)

I used Spectra when it had 8 base damage, the buff to 30 was huge. It is my preferred weapon for Ruk Orokin cell farming.

Hind, Ignis, and Panthera need some attention.

Don't forget about Embolist which requires MR8, 5 mutagen mass and a forma.

Embolist suffers mostly from wonky Continous Beam mechanics....such as status/sec and delayed damage clumps rather than tiny number fountains.

I have a rather weak Embolist build:

11782464_10205142468861353_6199596168288

But it performs fine with the dual-DoT from heat + innate toxin DoT.....as long as I'm using the weapon on a group of enemies.

Most people equip Lethal Torrent, but Embolist already has a pretty fast fire-rate and that would decimate ammo economy.

Plus max Multi-shot with 180% or 120% is still 3 projectiles....

Ruinous Extension is a Must on Embolist to take advantage of innate infinite enemy Punch-through

Used on mobs....Embolist is fine.

Edited by (PS4)MrNishi
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Embolist, Spectra, Grinlok, Burston Prime....these are fine with Augments.

 

Embolist can't reload a full mag if you are using the augment. And it takes just a few seconds to empty a full mag. It needs a massive buff to it's ammo reserves, it should have a 1500 ammo reserve just like the glaxion. There is also the fact that the range for it is so low it forces you to use the range mod.

 

With the augment, Spectra has about the same range as Synoid Gammacor. It's ammo efficiency is about the same too, but the sheer dps is a fourth of the Synoid.

 

Grinlok does about 60% the dps of it's pistol variant, the marelok (not even the vaykor one).

 

And the augment for Burston Prime hardly changes anything. Since it is a burst weapon rate-of-fire mods don't affect it's actual rate-of-fire, but just the delay between bursts.

Edited by lvl999ArchNecromancerIRL
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Embolist can't reload a full mag if you are using the augment. And it takes just a few seconds to empty a full mag. It needs a massive buff to it's ammo reserves, it should have a 1500 ammo reserve just like the glaxion. There is also the fact that the range for it is so low it forces you to use the range mod.

With the augment, Spectra has about the same range as Synoid Gammacor. It's ammo efficiency is about the same too, but the sheer dps is a fourth of the Synoid.

Grinlok does about 60% the dps of it's pistol variant, the marelok (not even the vaykor one).

And the augment for Burston Prime hardly changes anything. Since it is a burst weapon rate-of-fire mods don't affect it's actual rate-of-fire, but just the delay between bursts.

Burston Prime...augment allows the Burst spread to be tighter from my experinece. Allowing for increased accuracy.

Fire Rate is already at Semi-auto cap of 10.0....are you wanting the the augment to affect the fire-rate above the 10.0 semi-auto cap so it still does not affect fire-rate?

Embolist- I manually reload after expending 150-ish rounds and run ammo mutation because that living organism is hungry.

If we ever get Primed Ruinos Extension....two sidearms will become Monsters: Atomos- since increased continous reach extends the chain range

&

Embolist-infinite punch-through more range the better

Spectra with Augment has Range of 35m (15?+20m)...Synoid has range of 25m +8 if using Ruinous Extension for 33m.

Synoid DPS base is 420 and Spectra DPS base is 150....150 times 4 would be 600.

420 divided by 4 is 110.

Closer to 3 times the DPS but not 4 times.

Also the ammo consumption between Synoid and Spectra is not similar.

150 mag base at 15 fire-rate is 10sec to empty clip base on Synoid.

Spectra us 80mag with 5 fire-rate for 14secs to empty clip.

Both weapons have reload speed of 2secs base.... Spectra would still be on 1st magazine while Synoid emptied 1st mag, reloaded, and was 1/5 of the way through 2nd mag.

Those are not similar ammo consumption.

Adding the common Lethal Torrent has Synoid with 150 mag but 24 fire-rate: so 6.25 secs to empty magazine. Spectra has 80 magazine with 8 fire-rate with Lethal Torrent so 10secs to empty clip.

So if you are comparing Spectra w/Lethal Torrent to Synoid without Lethal Torrent...then yes ammo consumption is similar, apart from Pistol ammo drops are the equal...so Spectra needs less ammo pick-ups to reach maximum ammo.

(If running Lethal Torrent only on Spectra and not on Synoid...I'm not sure how you are getting 4 times the DPS with Synoid)

I frequently have the Spectra equipped

11070245_10205142684066733_9159877925701

Normal build

11731595_10205142692506944_7431153260462

Radiation+Viral anti Stalker/Ruk/Boss build

11055313_10205142696747050_8758626179315

Edited by (PS4)MrNishi
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Spectra, Grinlok, Burston Prime*, Lex Prime all perform well. these Weapons are balanced but effective.

yes, Grinlok sort've requires it's Augment for that. i'm okay with this. two Crit Chance Mods makes it have Sniper Rifle Crits while being a DMR. very nice.

yes, Marelok deals more Damage 99% of the time than Lex Prime. that's because Lex Prime is a balanced Weapon that wants you to be skilled, while Marelok is not a balanced Weapon.

Spectra has very good Range with Augment, Status is good. Damage is below average but has good Status and a lot of Range.

Vulkar performs average with Augment.

Embolist technically is okay, but it still feels questionable even with Augment and Ruinous Extension. it's Ammunition Efficiency is extremely low. a larger Magazine doesn't change the Ammunition Efficiency being very low.

*:

note that the Augment is questionable to use. most of the time isn't worth using infact. performs quite well without it anyways.

and Burst Weapons in general would get a big 'buff' if they applied Recoiling forces at the end of the Burst like how real Burst Weapons work. making Marksmanship a big factor for the Weapons, to get Headshots. that would be a skilled based method of making them more effective.

- - - - -

some Weapons, like Ignis, desperately need significant adjustments, yes. *sigh* Ignis is so awful. lowest Damage Output in the game, and doesn't gain anything else meaningful for it.

Paracyst, Panthera, Buzlok, Machete's, Ballistica Series (Rakta Ballistica didn't change at all with that 'buff') are all mostly just suffering from being very clunky to use.

most of the community is veterans or at least high leveled players.

(it actually isn't)

due to the nature of the game, anyone that logs in once a week (maybe every other week) is an active player, and the majority of those aren't 5 Star Generals. not that many even 3 Star Generals.

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By no means am I criticizing the buff to the Supra. On the contrary, I think it needs it really bad. But I did like to remember that there are many other old weapons that need buffs just as bad if not more than the Supra.

 

Hind, Ignis, Embolist, Paracyst, Panthera, Mitter, Burston (Prime), Sicarus (Prime), Grinlok, Vulkar, Tetra, Non-rakta Ballistica, Viper, Spectra are all in need of buffs. Please don't be forget about those weapons.

 

Edit: Dera, Buzzlok, Kraken, Twin Gremlins and Flux Rifle too.

What's wrong with burston prime, grinlok and vulkar? They perform pretty well.

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Don't forget about the Dera, Buzzlok, all the machete type weapons, all scythes, Dark Sword, Dark Dagger and many more. Alot of these weapons are real unique and very eye candy but it's annoying that they underperform and it's sad since all weapons should be good anywhere since all of them are unique.

 

EDIT: forgot to mention the Seer... the first and truest hand cannon.

The new scythe is very strong. Puncture-based and berserker-ready. With Stalking Fan, the Hate is also useable. The Dark Dagger is pretty solid with the syndicate mod.

 

@OP: The Sicarus Prime is pretty solid.

 

There is a difference between not tier-one and useless. A lot of the weapons listed are basically worthless, but quite a few just take more effort to forma and master and can be very strong in the right hands.

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Embolist

Please... T________________T

 

I love the old thing but you'd expect a MR8 weapon to be able to work better than this. Probably too much to ask for the number fountains back, but a wider cloud and an expanded ammo reserve will be nice. Yes, that's on top of the magazine capacity increase from Eroding Blight- with that mod the Embolist can't even hold a second full reload. And before anyone screams about how Embolist is already an amazing weapon when used with Vortex, no weapon should have to rely on a Warframe's ability to shine. 

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Hind: Yes, it's a useless baguette. 

Ignis: Yeah, it fixing mostly with it's damage

Embolist: Really needs fixing. It eats ammo, it requires MR8 and does 18.5 damage in a little fart cloud, the requirements for it is mind boggling.

Paracyst: One of the bad burst weapons, deals only 25 damage but has nice status, secondary fire is meh. 

Panthera: Zero critical chance, Secondary fire makes it a melee weapon and still consumes ammo, I just don't like it to be honest oh also Heavy calibre makes it fire like you are blind

Mitter: Same as Panthera except no secondary fire.

Burston (Prime): What's wrong with it? The Burston prime is a good weapon.

Sicarus (Prime) I don't like it to be honest but it's a solid weapon.

Grinlok: Marelok is better than it

Vulkar: Not sure what's wrong with it, the scope is just bleh.

Tetra: Don't really see what's wrong with it except that it is ugly. 

Non-rakta Ballistica: Not my type of weapon but it should be like a mini attica in my eyes

Viper: Eats ammo but does decent damage, I don't really see what's wrong with it because it's suppose to be a medicore starting weapon.

Spectra: It's fine except the range, also gammacor is better than it and that only needs a mastery rank of 2. 

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Although it's relatively new, the Simulor could use another pass. It's okayish in terms of damage, but the range is pitiful, the vortexes have no CC whatsoever and their Range/DoT is minimal, and enemies getting staggered by sphere collisions actually get pushed out of range of any succeeding AoEs, meaning the weapon actually works against itself.

 

It could seriously use some buffs/QoL changes, and preferably not after as much time as we had to wait for a Supra buff.

Edited by Paradoxbomb
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By no means am I criticizing the buff to the Supra. On the contrary, I think it needs it really bad. But I did like to remember that there are many other old weapons that need buffs just as bad if not more than the Supra.

 

Hind, Ignis, Embolist, Paracyst, Panthera, Mitter, Burston (Prime), Sicarus (Prime), Grinlok, Vulkar, Tetra, Non-rakta Ballistica, Viper, Spectra are all in need of buffs. Please don't be forget about those weapons.

 

Edit: Dera, Buzzlok, Kraken, Twin Gremlins and Flux Rifle too.

lmao the Ignis, burston prime, sicarus prime, grinlok, vulkar, tetra, and spectra? are you drunk? those weapons are perfectly fine. stop trying to use them against level 50 bombards and you'll be fine. 

 

The fact that you didn't ask for a buff on the braton shows your angle here, you want the starting weapon to be fine against low level, and every other weapon to be viable for T4. i am so glad people like you aren't the majority of the community, attempting to buff everything so then DE has to make harder and harder content to match every weapon being at the same level as the soma. 

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The problem with the Burston Prime is that people keep saying it's fine. I think it needs at least 45-50 damage and 20% to give it a leg up, but it won't be buffed because people say it's fine.

it is fine, i use it all the time with no problems. maybe stop trying to push it into the highest levels of the game?

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