We Need Better Trading Protection.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Its still a rip off. What you say doesn't change that. it's never "reasonable" to take what doesn't belong to you, no matter how someone slips up. "Hey I found your wallet - but for a minute I thought it was mine so I spent all of the money in it... YOUR FAULT."

 

And remember folks the whole slash controversy is not applicable - because the question where the slash is located isn't asking price - it's asking if he still has the items. There are 11 million WF users. 4 or 5 don't make me wrong.  There is still the clarification of BOTH... And this is not an english class, so... ya

 

It's not a ripoff, and no matter how hard you whine that won't change. He acted honorably according to your syntax. You paying him fully up front just further supported the implication that you were paying for the one item.  He probably would have sold you the second item for a second set of 55 plat.

[ProfessorZero]

I mention this, it should be apparent, but somehow isnt. If you are buying two things (sets) for 1 price, you should divide the plat per sale. ie 25 plat for the first set, 30 for the second. Even if he does break off after the first trade, you bought one set for X out of Y, you aren't screwed. Why anyone would operate differently confounds me. 

 

Did this guy do a d-bag thing? probably.You also did not act in a way to properly protect your interests. looking at that post I also agree that there was some questionableness at first. Its totally possible that he blocked you after misinterpreting your questions for an attempt to scam him. Its not likely, I think he did rip you off, but its possible,

 

A live auction house is the only way to institute the protections you require, DE does not seem to want this (i mean, in most games it ruins everything), and to impose the protections otherwise would require a lot of man power for something that does not net a lot of cash for DE, and is a problem that is not frequent. I can understand the pain of being cheated,

 

Remember, any system that removes all need to act in a way to protect your interests will be far too controlling and ornery to operate with the efficiency and ease that we value. While I emphasize with you, 55 plat stolen amounts to less than a dollar. The good thing is that since you reported scrubs mcgee he most likely was put on a list, which if he does it again will lend itself to it being a pattern, and maybe then your plat will be returned.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

I'm amazed you wasted DE's time with this.

Then wasted our time.

[magusat999]

First a shout-out to the trolls who act like they aren't excited about being in a topic, and say things like someone is "wasting time" - but take the love, care, time and attention to leave a (rude) message. Its called trolling and inciting flames - and it's a reportable offense... stay on topic or go somewhere else - nobody needs you here. And we have no troll food here anyways...

 

In any case, my topic i about us having better trade protection. Obviously there are people who want to argue with almost any post they come into. I do want to illuminate one thing though - which is the question of "ambiguity". If you look at my post and the pic, it cannot be ambiguous because deconstructing the conversation doesn't support that confusion. We argued over "/" meaning "or", basing people's opinions on the matter heavily in the "ambiguity" camp. The reason why that is false is if you look at the sentence and deconstruct it, it clearly is not asking "How much for each?" It asks "Do you have...". Do you have WHAT? Hikou/Scindo sets. Now whether you say the "/" means "or" or "and" does not have any bearing on how much each or both sets are. So that's why the "/" debate is inapplicable to the fact that I was ripped off. That question was about HAVING the items, and nothing to do with the PRICE of the items. Just like there are parts of speech there are parts of conversations - and everything you say is not necessarily applicable to every other thing you say in a conversation. If I start a conversation with "Why do elephants fly?" And then ask you how much money is in your bank account - does the elephants fly question have any bearing on whats in your bank account? Maybe, maybe not - that's why before moving to the next subject in a conversation we clarify what we want to CHANGE the subject to. If I wanted to continue to talk about elephants flying after you gave me an answer, I would let you know verbally. But if I want to  change the subject... "Well I would like to buy both flying elephants..." Would it be logical to respond to that with "Well the reason elephants fly is..." NO, because that is not the question now, and the first question is CLOSED. Same thing here.

 

So, since I am such an idiot what did I do next? CLARIFY what I wanted, and what I wanted him to remind me the price of. I told him I wanted BOTH - did I not? So we can agree at this point that it is understood that I am interested and talking about both sets. (The seller already confirms this, but this is for the sake of OUR conversation and debate).

 

Now - I did say I am interested in both, AND THEN I asked him to remind me how much. He answered my question, in this part of the conversation, which was "How much for both items?" Which is obvious by context. Remember, the "Do you still have Scindo/Hikou?" Question was about whether he had them or not, and he said yes. That part has no bearing on the part of the conversation we are in now, which is clarifying the items I wanted and the total price.

 

After telling him I want both, and then asking him the price. He gives me ONE PRICE. He does not say "55p for the Scindo set..." he is clear I want both, it is feasible to buy two items at one time or even separately. But in any case it was made clear to him and he confirmed by giving me a total price (which, I remind you was actually the total price if you add up the two item prices he posted).

 

So, knowing what I wanted, after (my mistake) taking my 55p and not giving me the other item he abruptly leaves.  And this was all to it, to address ProfessorZero's added little diddy about what could and could not have occurred - no there was no other communication besides what you see here and your "scenarios" did not happen and have no relevance to the post I made. The buyer was a thief, and simply made off with my money - plain and simple.

[Wolfssenger]

Hey magusat, good to see you're still active(i see you on my friends list but never in game).

Take trading as dealing with the shadiest guy you've ever seen and take every precaution to make sure you don't get screwed.

Next time give the plat half and half so if he pulls that you get a good price still.

This was your lack of precaution I'm sad to say but it happens to all of us, best of luck to you bro.

[Farlander]

Look at it this way. When you hit the "accept trade" button, the final step before a trade can be completed, you are entering into a binding agreement, (or at least as binding as a trade of virtual goods can be) that you agree with the price of the trade, and agree that it is fair.

If you hit the accept button before the other person has placed any goods in his side of the trade, you are essentially agreeing to trade your platinum for NOTHING. You essentially signed a blank check, and handed it off to a stranger.

It's always painful when things like this happen, and whoever did this to you did something that is certainly wrong, morally speaking.

 

However, we don't need additional trade protection. There is already plenty of trade protection, but you chose to disregard it, and instead trusted that the other person would do the right thing. You left your pants down, and you got stung, pure and simple.

 

It's a painful learning experience, but hopefully, knowing what you do now, it won't happen again.

Best of luck to you in the future.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

4) "Granted, I slipped up and put all of the plat in the initial purchase - there I made a stupid mistake. But even so, should that be a reason to dismiss - or should we expect protection even if we make mistakes? What if someone has a key board error, or accidentally put 1000 plat when they meant to put 10 plat, and missed it? does that mean a thief gets to keep their money, because of that error? DE steps in when a purchase raises flags and makes changes - so don't tell us these transactions are not logged, or private in any way - or that the chat records are not archived and cannot be accessed if needed. We should have better protection."

Yes the "thief" gets to keep the money because the slip up was made by you/the buyer in your example. You decided not to define the price for both. The seller or "thief" likely got a good price for the hikou set and went off.

Your giant wall of text doesn't change the fact that, even through the multiple protective barriers, you messed up.

/thread

[magusat999]

Hey magusat, good to see you're still active(i see you on my friends list but never in game).

Take trading as dealing with the shadiest guy you've ever seen and take every precaution to make sure you don't get screwed.

Next time give the plat half and half so if he pulls that you get a good price still.

This was your lack of precaution I'm sad to say but it happens to all of us, best of luck to you bro.

Hey superfishy36 - yeah your right - and I have said that I accept my responsibility and stupidity a million times in this topic but people keep bringing it up as if I am not admitting to that error (not you... other people...). At this point I have only been concerned (in this topic) that people understand that there was no confusion or "ambiguity" to allow the thief to have no conscience about what he did. Hence my last post, in which I had to deconstruct and separate the sections of my chat to get people to see that! People will argue about ANYTHING, and some people won't stop no matter WHAT you say or what you prove to them. Maybe I'm just providing entertainment for some bored tenno... Ithink some of these people who have been arguing with me have realized that they were wrong about the ambiguity - because instead of addressing the new information or conceding that I was right they have moved on to talking about other things (trying to find something they can be right about - even if it's something I already admitted to or have agreed with)... big fat, sloppy egos... what drives 99% of forum arguments...

[magusat999]

4) "Granted, I slipped up and put all of the plat in the initial purchase - there I made a stupid mistake. But even so, should that be a reason to dismiss - or should we expect protection even if we make mistakes? What if someone has a key board error, or accidentally put 1000 plat when they meant to put 10 plat, and missed it? does that mean a thief gets to keep their money, because of that error? DE steps in when a purchase raises flags and makes changes - so don't tell us these transactions are not logged, or private in any way - or that the chat records are not archived and cannot be accessed if needed. We should have better protection."

Yes the "thief" gets to keep the money because the slip up was made by you/the buyer in your example. You decided not to define the price for both. The seller or "thief" likely got a good price for the hikou set and went off.

Your giant wall of text doesn't change the fact that, even through the multiple protective barriers, you messed up.

/thread

No, I asked him the price for both. He gave me the answer to the question of price after I  told him I wanted both, which ONCE AGAIN, was equal to the combined price of his posted items... My only fault here was I was stupid to put all the money in and then accept it - but the thief was fully aware of his prices and that he was ripping me off, hence his immediately ignoring me after purchase.

 

And if you feel so bothered by my giant wall of text that you need to say something about it, remember nobody MADE YOU read it. That was YOUR CHOICE - so don't get salty at me if you don't like reading - I wrote it to express MY POINTS, not to satisfy your irritation with reading. I don't even KNOW you!

[Phatose]

Preventing ignores after a trade is not acceptable.   There are possible good reasons to ignore a user after a trade.

 

For example, you make a trade.  Half an hour later, the other side of the transaction finds another trader offering a slightly better deal.  He decides to harass you to trade the item back so he can buy it from this new buyer, or for you to refund the item. 

 

In that case, an ignore is a perfectly reasonable move.   And that's just one of many reasons. 

 

 

I'd need to see longer logs to determine what actually happened here.  We don't have enough information. If, for example,  his original advertisement were to be "WTS Hikou Set/Scindo set 55p each" then all of a sudden the same evidence casts a very different light - you trying to rip him off. Not saying you were, but merely the the evidence you've presented is insufficient.

 

 

 

 

Live human instant response support is expensive.  Employees are not cheap, and a 24 hour support team sufficient to handle all support requests worldwide would be incredibly expensive.  Would you be willing to pay, say $20/month for this?

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

No, I asked him the price for both. He gave me the answer to the question of price after I  told him I wanted both, which ONCE AGAIN, was equal to the combined price of his posted items... My only fault here was I was stupid to put all the money in and then accept it - but the thief was fully aware of his prices and that he was ripping me off, hence his immediately ignoring me after purchase.

 

And if you feel so bothered by my giant wall of text that you need to say something about it, remember nobody MADE YOU read it. That was YOUR CHOICE - so don't get salty at me if you don't like reading - I wrote it to express MY POINTS, not to satisfy your irritation with reading. I don't even KNOW you!

I didn't read it because it was irrelevant.

You put down all the plat. It is your fault through and through. DE doesn't need to and shouldn't take further action. You should have defined the price for both sets individually (eg. 35 for Scindo...20 for hikou).

As for my percieved "salt," I just find it difficult for people to understand their mistake. Yeah it sucks, I know, but the fact if the matter is that whining to both the community and DE won't change the fact that you messed up. In other words, don't expect sympathy.

[Slaviar]

Isn't Scindo Prime set worth around 50p?

If so, I can't call it scam/stealing. If I'm right you received said set. Of course him ignoring you is suspicious but he could done it accidentally.

[SeaUrchins]

Isn't Scindo Prime set worth around 50p?

 

WFTrading lists Scindo set 47-79p and Hikou 40-65p.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

WFTrading lists Scindo set 47-79p and Hikou 40-65p.

Because that site is reliable...

Scindo sets are everywhere and Hikou is used only as mastery unless you enjoy using it. Those two factors instantly lower the prices.

[TheBrsrkr]

Sorry dude, that one's all on you. Learn from it.

The other dude was a ponce, though.

Edited July 27, 2015 by TheBrsrkr

[Onisa]

Preventing ignores after a trade is not acceptable.   There are possible good reasons to ignore a user after a trade.

 

For example, you make a trade.  Half an hour later, the other side of the transaction finds another trader offering a slightly better deal.  He decides to harass you to trade the item back so he can buy it from this new buyer, or for you to refund the item. 

 

In that case, an ignore is a perfectly reasonable move.   And that's just one of many reasons. 

 

 

I'd need to see longer logs to determine what actually happened here.  We don't have enough information. If, for example,  his original advertisement were to be "WTS Hikou Set/Scindo set 55p each" then all of a sudden the same evidence casts a very different light - you trying to rip him off. Not saying you were, but merely the the evidence you've presented is insufficient.

 

 

Live human instant response support is expensive.  Employees are not cheap, and a 24 hour support team sufficient to handle all support requests worldwide would be incredibly expensive.  Would you be willing to pay, say $20/month for this?

There are just as many good reasons to prevent ignores as there are to not prevent them.

 

Why not simply flag accounts that ignore their trade partners within the same session? After all DE seems to monitor nearly everything else about trades. If a trader does it too often they get a trade ban and have to explain to support why they feel the need to block so many people they trade with if they want back on the market.

 

All in all it comes down to DE cherry picking what they want to enforce among community members though, and nothing a few forum goers type is going to change that.