A Change To The Manic's Invulnerability Phase

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

I'll start by saying that the Manics are my favorite unit in the game. I remember my first encounter, it was at the end of an extermination and I heard that maniacal laugh. This being a new sound, my squad mate and I went to investigate. Searching an empty area I heard a noise behind me and my mate lost half his health. We had no idea what had just happened; I felt like I had fallen into a Predator movie. The Manic came for another attack and we caught a glimpse and went into full Predator mode, unloading at nothing. The manic materialized from behind and started to attack more aggressively until we figured out his strategy and killed him.

I say all this because this is the first time in a long time that this game has done that to me. The Manic provided an enjoyable experience that I still find fun. Manics are a great addition to say the least, but I think the invulnerability phase could be changed to make for a more enjoyable experience.

TD;DR:Simply put, keep their invisibility stage, remove the invulnerability, and replace it with a debuff stripper. Meaning if the Manic is Mprimed, has a bleed proc, or any debuff, it would be removed every time he enters his invisibility/teleport phase.

Everything that makes this enemy unique is taken away if, for example, I'm watching an invisible Mprimed Manic waiting for it to materialize so I can be rid of it and move on. To reiterate, all of your abilities would still work, they would just be stripped during the invisibility stage and the manic would be vulnerable, if you can spot him.

Edited July 26, 2015 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[rapt0rman]

Super yes please.

[AdunSaveMe]

Anything that ditches the invulnerability phase is fine by me.

 

It's not a challenge. A challenge is an obstacle that can be overcome with sufficient effort and/or skill.

 

 

You can't overcome or counter this invulnerability phase. You wait it out. That's not a challenge, that's a glorified clock

[PsychedelicSnake]

The invulnerability is definitely my least favorite thing about the manic. Apart from what everyone else before me has already stated, I just feel an invulnerability phase works against the Manic's design. He's supposed to be fast and hit like a truck, to make up for fragility (as is the case with enemies similar to the Manic), but the invincibility just doesn't mesh with it.

[LeshJaeThiHah]

I'll start by saying that the Manics are my favorite unit in the game.

well i will start by saying that the manics are the most sad enemies in the game, simply because of their design. i don't even touch them - my sentinel kills them. invul phase is just sad. so is damage cap.

 

however - if you remove their invul, they will die to aoe, be it powers or weapons. i am using orthos prime with maxed primed reach. average strike for 10k. So do you really think the manics would survive for more than a second against that without invuls AND damage cap?

Edited July 26, 2015 by LeshJaeThiHah

[Ryusuta]

As a rule, invulnerability phases are almost always to the detriment of the game's enjoyability. There's some occasional exceptions, but this is definitely not one of them.

[LeshJaeThiHah]

topic starter problem is not with manics, but rather with game mechanics.

 

damage cap, invulnerability phases. these mechanics were ok when you were fighting Krill. But as it now almost any new mob have that. So i really begin to question why i need maxed out serration, heavy caliber, hornet strike etc. (all these fancy Rank 10 mods.) when a developer will simply use damage cap and/or invuls phase to cut me short.

 

 Anyway. My favorite mob in the game is the boss Jackal. Because in order to defeat this boss you should perform certain action, such as damage its legs.

Edited July 26, 2015 by LeshJaeThiHah

[SubjectL]

+1

[AdunSaveMe]

well i will start by saying that the manics are the most sad enemies in the game, simply because of their design. i don't even touch them - my sentinel kills them. invul phase is just sad. so is damage cap.

 

however - if you remove their invul, they will die to aoe, be it powers or weapons. i am using orthos prime with maxed primed reach. average strike for 10k. So do you really think the manics would survive for more than a second against that without invuls AND damage cap?

There are ways to make a unit with interesting mechanics that don't involve arbitrary 'you can't win until we say so' crap.

[Ve1indian]

I cannot list every time Manics went invisible less than a second after they popped out of invisibility already, leading to long annoying encounters where I could kill the rest of the room without him being a threat during the whole venture.

 

Constant invincibility is annoying, and when there is a dust trail showing where they are, it's just a matter of tracking it till they pop out than burst them do death (if they decide not to instantly go invisible/invulnerable again). Plus, the horrid enemy pathfinding just makes waiting for the manic to be vulnerable even more inconsistent and annoying.

 

All my +1

[BlackCoMerc]

Or we can just stop pretending this enemy is at all fun or engaging to fight and remove it from the game. 

 

Maybe it is just the invulnerability phase (it isnt) that makes it unfun. Or it could be the way he always knows where you are, even when you go invisible and leave a Decoy somewhere else. Maybe its the insane speed. Or the loss of control when tackles you because you couldnt damage him due to the above issues. 

 

This enemy is not challenging. Its not fun. Its an annoyance that needs to go.

[Volume]

That's not a challenge, that's a glorified clock

 

just like the rest of the game

[Hammahness808]

+1

 

Would like to see this.

[LeshJaeThiHah]

There are ways to make a unit with interesting mechanics that don't involve arbitrary 'you can't win until we say so' crap.

but it is DE's general idea of how to design "challenging" mobs. Manics - invuls, damage cap. Jugger - damage cap.

 

honestly - these new sentients? my money is on power immunity, cc immunity, invul phases and damage cap.

 

another thing: with the weapons that deal 50k+ of burst dps, i have no idea how to make a mob, without these ^ absurd mechanics.

Edited July 26, 2015 by LeshJaeThiHah

[AdunSaveMe]

Or we can just stop pretending this enemy is at all fun or engaging to fight and remove it from the game. 

 

Maybe it is just the invulnerability phase (it isnt) that makes it unfun. Or it could be the way he always knows where you are, even when you go invisible and leave a Decoy somewhere else. Maybe its the insane speed. Or the loss of control when tackles you because you couldnt damage him due to the above issues. 

 

This enemy is not challenging. Its not fun. Its an annoyance that needs to go.

The concept was so tasty though. Instead we get an enemy that's barely a threat and practically deletes the capacity for skill.

[Eldnacpeek]

Anything that ditches the invulnerability phase is fine by me.

 

It's not a challenge. A challenge is an obstacle that can be overcome with sufficient effort and/or skill.

 

 

You can't overcome or counter this invulnerability phase. You wait it out. That's not a challenge, that's a glorified clock

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

OH LOOK, IT'S MR.PRIMARY EXAMPLE.

Edited July 27, 2015 by LazerSkink