Creating A Reason To Rank Up

[Wolfssenger]

I have no problem with games that some grind and RNG, it is necessary in all games to make them good, what is open to debate if how much RNG and how much GRIND is necessary.

How ever telling people to "go play another game" because they don't agree with your opinion or shoot your down your idea for just being poorly conceived is just childish. I offered a differing opinion, bringing up real concerns of players have expressed over the years on the forms when threads like this appear in the past. However your option of not address any of them in context of your idea is to toss out platitude like "Life is not fair" are cop-out answer. How about this before you cook up a idea use the forum search tool and read what other people have purposed on the subject and how the community has reacted.

I like your self am a "veteran player", there literally are only 5-10 "exclusive items" outside of the founder pack that I do not have. On a personal level I don't have a problem with exclusive items as long as it is done correctly, Warframe has failed spectacularly in this department. This is mainly do to their efforts of keeping a small but extremely vocal minority appeased, as long as this behavior is happing the game is going to suffer.

You keep posting these long messages which I wouldn't mind responding to if you brought up any actual problem besides the fact that people would actually have to gain mastery to get some of the strong weapons.

I'm telling you to go elsewhere because of what i stated above and the fact that you seem to hate grinding with a passion in which case it truly is best for you not to be here.

And for the LAST TIME

NOTHING HERE HAS TO DO WITH EXCLUSIVES STOP BRINGING THEM UP.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I dont think Forma alone fixes it though because the only real challenge atm is going hours in a survival.

It won't fix everything, but it fixes a lot of it.

[Raven_Face]

I seriously don't want Mastery Rank to have additional reasons. If anything, I want the reasons to be reduced. The whole act of 'weapon tiering' via Mastery Rank has stained the principle of weapon and build diversity. And it's totally a misnomer too; Why would using weapons without fulfilling criterias of skills, be a form of Mastery? If anything, it's only Familiarity, and there's no effort behind it other than getting different things and USE them.

 

All I see of higher Mastery Ranks is a label tag for ego. It's better for Mastery Points to be distributed amongst planets rather than Frames and Weapons.

[Miish.]

What would make mastery worth it, would be to make it so forma-ing weapons sets that weapon to your mastery rank level instead of zero.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Miish.

[AlphaHorseman]

To any veteran player, it's no secret that warframe has littleto to no motivationfor to offer players who have already poured a substantial amount of hours into the game. The majority of the high mastery weapons are mediocre, and past mastery 8 there is literally nothing to look forward to but trades and extra sstanding/extractors.

I can't speak for everyone else, but as a MR14, I would love to be made to WANT that next mastery rank, something that makes leveling these crappy venka or sicarus because the reward is worth it, because at the moment I have no reason whatsoever to rank up.

How do we fix it? We all know that the sentients are coming. Make them mind numbingly, gut-wrenchingly, rage inducing hard. If not be limited by mastery rank(via quest), make it NEED four(or more, raid material?) players with weapons and possibly frames with several forma, something you cant carry a dead weight through. Many of us would finally like a challenge that isn't staying in a survival for 7 millennia, and this is the perfect window to do that.

What would the reward be? Something along the lines of umbra weapons( or whatever you want to call/make it), a new set of new or revamped(akin to prime, in this case, ones who don't fit the prime theme) god tier(in line or slightly above current god tier) weapons. Weapons that require a special sentient resource, blueprint, or method to make that would require a high mastery or power level to craft and acquire( say mastery 8-10 to start with some Weapons requiring mastery up to 16 or 17).

Even this wouldn't be the whole solution to the problem but it would open up a world of possibilities and solutions.

This is radical I know, and i know it doesn't do much for new players, but it already has so much to offer new players, it can afford to reward its veterans a bit for sticking so long, and motivate players to ascend.

Thanks for reading this far, tell me what you guys think.

I would think that the better solution would be to Tier our weapons through the Mastery Rank system. In that sense, players have an understanding of what weapons are for what level of missions. Higher weapons that require higher Mastery Rank do so because they can go into higher level content easier than gear that require a lower Mastery Rank. It also gives players a goal to work towards if they want to use certain types of gear, and it gives them an understanding of why it is so hard to obtain certain weapons.

 

Thus, DE can easily balance weapons around what Mastery Rank is required to use them, and its far more clear to see what weapons belong in what Tiers. To ensure that all play styles of guns are represented throughout content, DE would also have to secure a cluster of weapons of each category into each Tier of Mastery. Thus, players who love rifles in the beginning can continue to use rifles throughout all of WarFrame. Players who love using grenade launchers would have grenade launchers at their disposal all throughout their ventures up the Mastery ladder.

 

Calls for nerfs/buffs could be more accurate as we now have a stable system to measure what should be nerfed, and what should be buffed, and what is good as is. Forma is the avenue players can take to push weapons past their intended Mastery Levels, however, forma can only take you so far, and thus the need for ensuring all levels of the Tiered system have weapon variations of each weapon type.

 

It is important to note, however, that Tiering the WarFrames isn't an avenue to take, as DE hopes to ensure that all Frames are End-Game capable. Tiering the Primes, I would imagine, be just ensuring that a player has access to all Primes once they reach a certain Mastery Level.

[Raven_Face]

Make Frames easier to create, or I have more reasons to reject this Mastery Rank BS

 

EDIT: But this should be taken with a grain of sweetener. What I meant is that blueprints are hard to come by and are locked away in other planets. This isn't good for moving out of starting Frames.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Raven_Face

[AlphaHorseman]

Make Frames easier to create, or I have more reasons to reject this Mastery Rank BS

 

EDIT: But this should be taken with a grain of sweetener. What I meant is that blueprints are hard to come by and are locked away in other planets. This isn't good for moving out of starting Frames.

Depending on how they handle Star Chart 3.0, we'll see how this goes.

[Onisa]

If you come up with a system that goes to mastery rank 17 then people who are mastery rank 18+ will want something as well. Other wise you will see one of them on the forums saying that "MR18+ should have rewards to", this means your only moving the "Mastery Rank is worthless" from MR 8 to MR 17. What good is a half baked idea that is not addressing the problem only delaying it, are you tired as the rest of us of DE giving us half implemented ideas?

I'm not sure if you've noticed this, but the Mastery Rank system is designed to go up to 30. Currently the last rank you get anything at is 15.

Either DE should update the rewards to cover the full span of the system, or Mastery Rank in it's entirety should be gutted. And yes, that means letting all the newbletts buy end game prime gear the moment they figure out how to open trade chat.

 

Everyone seems to hate the idea of MR gates, yet what we have was put in place for a reason. Just because we're past the point the DEvs planned for doesn't mean there shouldn't be additions to it.

[Loswaith]

Generally speaking mastery rank is actually good for the game as it is, because it leaves players with an actual choice (and not the illusion of one).  They can choose to try out all the weapons and frames and gain some small benefits from doing so or they can choose to only rank up and use those weapons they like at the cost of not gaining that small benefit.  

Players just have to let go of the notion that mastery rank actually means anything at all other than some representation of potential diversity or gear gate.  It has about as much meaning to the game as how many grineer you have killed.

 

Any change to this that emphasises the need to get ranks, will simply cause the grind and farming to be seen as even more required, even if players don't really require the higher ranks.  

You just have to look at the effects of Primed mods to see this in action.  They don't need to be maxed out (or even needed at all), but the general belief is that they do and many complaints about the grind to rank them has occurred.

 

The incentive to play a game should be primarily the enjoyment of playing it (ie the fun of it), and anything else ancillary to that goal.

 

 

...

If the game wants to be taken seriously it needs to accomplish 2 major landmarks, competitive PvE and Fair PvP.

...

Actually many games are often taken very seriously that have neither of these things.  If these are essentials for you to take the game seriously then maybe Warframe just isn't your kind of game.  

That is OK.

Not all games have to cater to everyone, and it is exactly because games don't have to cater to everyone is why there is a plethora of game choices out there.

 

Like any other players founders sit on all sides of the discussions as well.   As a whole they neither make nor break the game and are a small minority of the current player base.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Loswaith

[Wolfssenger]

What would make mastery worth it, would be to make it so forma-ing weapons sets that weapon to your mastery rank level instead of zero.

The reason this is just a nice addition and not really a solution is this: so you can forma weapons faster, for what? To shoot the same brainless enemies for hours on end? Maybe you don't make more mr locked weapons, at the very least make the sentients damn hard, I( along with many others) want a real challenge for once, not 120 waves of a defense.

[saintsspider]

MR =&>15 can go into the ninja beast mod, which upon activation grants you 600% weapon output damage, 400% melee weapon damage , 900% armor shields & health upgrade for the warframe itself, random offensive ability discharges from your warframe after regular intervals (abilities from all the different warframe you have maxed out)

Ninja beast mode can only be activated on High Tier i.e above 30 min mark in t3/t4 survivals

[Ninja-Kid]

Daily trades.

All the reason I need.

[(PSN)rengence]

I'm officially MR6 but with about 700k mastery and over 51 days logged. I got prime access awhile back before so relays are no problem. I haven't had a real reason to rank up and until then may stay MR6 to mess with those mr15 and higher when I keep reviving them.

[-JohnnyChimpo-]

^^^ LOL

[Cosmedian]

I seriously don't want Mastery Rank to have additional reasons. If anything, I want the reasons to be reduced. The whole act of 'weapon tiering' via Mastery Rank has stained the principle of weapon and build diversity. And it's totally a misnomer too; Why would using weapons without fulfilling criterias of skills, be a form of Mastery? If anything, it's only Familiarity, and there's no effort behind it other than getting different things and USE them.

 

All I see of higher Mastery Ranks is a label tag for ego. It's better for Mastery Points to be distributed amongst planets rather than Frames and Weapons.

This.

[Wolfssenger]

This.

What you are asking is for DE to overhaul levelling, which is overhauling a core mechanic of the game, which is not anything new to DE but would mean a reset of those who got high mastery since this new system would discredit their work. You see the problem with this? We're too far into this flawed system to take such drastic measures without serious repercussions.

[Wolfssenger]

I would think that the better solution would be to Tier our weapons through the Mastery Rank system. In that sense, players have an understanding of what weapons are for what level of missions. Higher weapons that require higher Mastery Rank do so because they can go into higher level content easier than gear that require a lower Mastery Rank. It also gives players a goal to work towards if they want to use certain types of gear, and it gives them an understanding of why it is so hard to obtain certain weapons.

Thus, DE can easily balance weapons around what Mastery Rank is required to use them, and its far more clear to see what weapons belong in what Tiers. To ensure that all play styles of guns are represented throughout content, DE would also have to secure a cluster of weapons of each category into each Tier of Mastery. Thus, players who love rifles in the beginning can continue to use rifles throughout all of WarFrame. Players who love using grenade launchers would have grenade launchers at their disposal all throughout their ventures up the Mastery ladder.

Calls for nerfs/buffs could be more accurate as we now have a stable system to measure what should be nerfed, and what should be buffed, and what is good as is. Forma is the avenue players can take to push weapons past their intended Mastery Levels, however, forma can only take you so far, and thus the need for ensuring all levels of the Tiered system have weapon variations of each weapon type.

It is important to note, however, that Tiering the WarFrames isn't an avenue to take, as DE hopes to ensure that all Frames are End-Game capable. Tiering the Primes, I would imagine, be just ensuring that a player has access to all Primes once they reach a certain Mastery Level.

This wouldn't be a bad system, but I'm pretty sure DE will not be touching the primes.

[Wolfssenger]

I think some people are missing the point with there being two parts to this idea. The sentients being difficult is an answer to another huge problem in the game.

[DreManX23]

Well I am only mastery rank 8 but I think for those higher mastery ranked people there should be special things you get after mastery rank 10.

Such as an extra revive or special gear and enhancements. Idk if that would break the game but it would be nice for all the founders and what not.

Thanks I hope I am not speeking where i dont belong.

[Wolfssenger]

Well I am only mastery rank 8 but I think for those higher mastery ranked people there should be special things you get after mastery rank 10.

Such as an extra revive or special gear and enhancements. Idk if that would break the game but it would be nice for all the founders and what not.

Thanks I hope I am not speeking where i dont belong.

As long as you're reasonable, could care less what rank you are. My main purpose here is creating a reason for people to want higher MR. Am I wrong inn saying you would like a motive or reason to keep ranking up?

[MumblesMcphatty]

Make them mind numbingly, gut-wrenchingly, rage inducing hard. If not be limited by mastery rank(via quest), make it NEED four(or more, raid material?) players with weapons and possibly frames with several forma, something you cant carry a dead weight through. .

 

Yeah - lets lock the new, much hyped enemy faction away from all solo players!

 

Great idea OP!

[TenshuYuusha]

Yeah - lets lock the new, much hyped enemy faction away from all solo players!

 

Great idea OP!

The difficulty would be nice, but making it need 4 or more... kinda dumb. I'd suggest making them scale depending on how many players there are, but at the very least make them smarter than the other factions... I think there's only one Infested enemy that's smart in the sense that sometimes it rolls to the side when you try to shoot it. :v

[Wolfssenger]

Yeah - lets lock the new, much hyped enemy faction away from all solo players!

Great idea OP!

The majority of people are not solo players, and god forbid you have to join a squad for 25% of the potential enemies/missions. Even more so god forbid you have to play a co-op game with other people. The fact that you can even solo what is supposed to be co op means it's far too easy.

But if you insist on it being soloable I'm sure there could be a way to scale difficulty with the number of players.

[Wolfssenger]

The difficulty would be nice, but making it need 4 or more... kinda dumb. I'd suggest making them scale depending on how many players there are, but at the very least make them smarter than the other factions... I think there's only one Infested enemy that's smart in the sense that sometimes it rolls to the side when you try to shoot it. :v

Yeah, I just posted that. It would be nice to have an enemy that would require real coordination for Once though

[Brosephelon]

That's the thing, unless they make some really hard enemy, the game is literally over at MR8, you have nothing meaningful left to achieve. Aesthetics are worth about as much as the number next to your name. There needs to be a reason to play, and isn't it only right that the highest level players should have access to the highest level weapons?

Also one thing that i should have mentioned earlier, this is a grinding game, if you don't like grinding( which you obviously stated), then leave.

 

How does a stronger gun help anyone?  The issue isn't the guns, we can already do 40+min T4 survivals and frankly you can probably manage that without hitting MR8.  There will always be new guns, but just having arbitrarily strong guns at high MR is just silly.  The big important thing here to is that weapons keep a degree of parity.  An MR6 gun shouldn't directly and always outclass an MR0 or 2 gun, they generally do but they don't have to.  Guns like the original Latron even if MR0 and antique is still a decent all around gun.  All of these various prime weapons, many with low MR's are still viable and the concept of all of those weapons just being invalidated because "oh yeah he got the MR10 SuperSoma" is just for lack of a better word stupid.  

 

I don't mind grinding, I have hundreds of Paragon levels in D3.  I've played Warframe for hundreds of hours and will continue to do so.  But you know what?  I've never really played Witch Doctor in D3 it just never appealed to me, yet I've still played the game for countless hours and enjoy the game.  By having people able to specialize there characters, people will do so.  I really like a few warframes but frankly just flat out dislike others, I can't stand the play style of Frost and the concept of having to build and level it to 30 just so I can get that extra bit of MR to do something relevant is just repulsive.  I also don't care much for Dual Wielded melee, its just not to my tastes, I've tried a few like the Dual Ichor but it still just wasn't my cup of tea.  

 

Just because I don't want to play literally EVERYTHING doesn't mean I don't play the grind, or am not beyond the grind.  There is a difference between grinding and collecting.  I'll grind all damn day if I have the free time, but i will not buy the machete wraith no matter how many ducates it is just to level that piece of trash as mastery fodder, because I am not a collector.  

 

What Warframe needs in that regard for "bittervets" is better, harder, content thats ACTUALLY REWARDING.  Sure we can go to 40+ in surivals, but why?  Why not just leave at 15 or 20 based off the rotation rewards you need.  They need to put more incentives into staying on Sechura/similar for more than just 5 waves.

A great example with D3 was they added greater rifts, these were INFINITELY scaling random dungeons that had decent rewards dropped on clearing it.  Once you cleared the dungeon you either upgraded it to a higher difficulty key or cashed in the completed key for another reward (which scaled based on how many difficulty levels you took the key up).  Another aspect of note is that these greater rifts were timed meaning you couldn't just "out sustain them" you had to be efficiently and effectively killing everything.  Adding into this timed aspect they used it as there ladder system so people could "compete" for faster and higher clear times giving them a leader board.  

 

Something like an endless tower + leaderboard is what you should be looking at, not a bigger gun because you hit MR29.  Oh and telling people to leave, just because they disagree with you is pretty S#&$ty and bad for the game... just sayin.  

Edited July 28, 2015 by Brosephelon