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Nekros Fix Needed!


driftmason
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Nekros needs to be fixed already. His low survivability makes his support abilities just useless.

 

He either needs a full buff on his abilities OR a buff on his armor, shields and health.

 

For example:

 

His forth power needs to at least make him invulnerable while he is casting it. The animation takes so long that by the time you cast it, you drop dead on the floor because it leaves him so exposed for so long.

 

Yes I have gathered the idea of trying to do it around a corner or possibly using terrify to get rid of the mobs before you cast the forth ability, but still you will always find your self almost dying every time.  

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I disagree with buffing a frame because you're unable to find a suitable time to cast Shadows. Terrify is quick and easy, It's perfect for pushing mobs away whilst you cast Shadows. If you're finding yourself dying all the time, just practice casting it at suitable times, rather than giving up and asking for a buff.

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Nekros is a bit of an oddity to me. He doesn't exactly.......fit in a team. Like seeing a plain peanut butter sandwich on a restaurant menu. Add the fact that he's squishy, doesn't really have a set role, pitiful amounts of damage and merely okay CC, and the audience that SoTD provides, and you start wondering why he's even there.

Probably Desecrate.

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To those who think I just spam SOTD, well thats not the case. That was just one example of how low his survivability is, especially in defense missions when you have no time to cast anything. Of course, you cant always rely on your abilities. Sometimes you will find that using the right primary weapon is better. But I think there is a limit to when a warframe has become completely useless in a team because he is not a very good support class. I'm not asking them to pull another excaliber --> where his 4th ability is just straight away bullS#&$ rigged. I'm just asking the developers to make him a more balanced support class, like OBERON whom I believe is currenlty a well balanced support class.

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gotta admit the casting time on nekros is a bit slow and you shouldn't have to use a mod ( natural talent)  to fix it when that  is the job of the Devs.

 

 casting an ability to buy time to cast another ability now that just doesn't sound or is right.

Edited by ranks21
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To those who think I just spam SOTD, well thats not the case. That was just one example of how low his survivability is, especially in defense missions when you have no time to cast anything. Of course, you cant always rely on your abilities. Sometimes you will find that using the right primary weapon is better. But I think there is a limit to when a warframe has become completely useless in a team because he is not a very good support class. I'm not asking them to pull another excaliber --> where his 4th ability is just straight away bullS#&$ rigged. I'm just asking the developers to make him a more balanced support class, like OBERON whom I believe is currenlty a well balanced support class.

No offense man but oberon sucks balls.

Nekros definitly needs some work.

He needs

*Faster casting times

*More duration on his shadows (or no duration influence at all. Why would you even need it anyway? Stick to the max number defined by your power str and lower the cost and number of summoned shadows. Make soulpunching them a despawn tool that regains energy)

*A more agressive shadow behavior

The shadows are a shield and should stay one. Building for the shadows (narrow mindet~) should not have negative influence on terrify, what's also quite the valuable defensive tool.

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No offense man but oberon sucks balls.

Nekros definitly needs some work.

He needs

*Faster casting times

*More duration on his shadows (or no duration influence at all. Why would you even need it anyway? Stick to the max number defined by your power str and lower the cost and number of summoned shadows. Make soulpunching them a despawn tool that regains energy)

*A more agressive shadow behavior

The shadows are a shield and should stay one. Building for the shadows (narrow mindet~) should not have negative influence on terrify, what's also quite the valuable defensive tool.

 

that actually sounds much better. I think reducing casting time on all of his abilities, especially shadows, and have no duration on his shadows (rather the ability level increase the number of shadows and the mods increase the number of shadows). I think that this would make him more valuable in fights as his survivability would then depend on him hiding behind his shadows and using terrify when possible.

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that actually sounds much better. I think reducing casting time on all of his abilities, especially shadows, and have no duration on his shadows (rather the ability level increase the number of shadows and the mods increase the number of shadows). I think that this would make him more valuable in fights as his survivability would then depend on him hiding behind his shadows and using terrify when possible.

It would also create the typical choice. Better support with terrify or more shadows you can actually utilize.

His support playstyle with focus on terrify and disengrate works pretty solid. His shadows are just flawed. Damaging abilitys create the need to lower your duration (transient, max efficiency), nekros is a exceptation in that concern.

He is in fact a great supporter, he just sucks at beein a necromancer.

(Btw, for the sake of the game, the shadows should also loose some of theyr buffed damage and health. Having a reliable army at hand is solid enough rly.)

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Also I would think to stop shadows becoming over powered, so people aren't just recasting it as the shadows would have no duration on them. Maybe restrict shadows to only be allowed to be re-casted when you have only two shadows remaining alive. Obviously when you would recast shadows it would destroy the two remaining shadows as well. that way people couldn't just build army's.

 

I think this discussion would perhaps be the best way to maintain nekros current support class, but also make him more valuable to the team as well not making him bullS#&$ overpowered.

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Also I would think to stop shadows becoming over powered, so people aren't just recasting it as the shadows would have no duration on them. Maybe restrict shadows to only be allowed to be re-casted when you have only two shadows remaining alive. Obviously when you would recast shadows it would destroy the two remaining shadows as well. that way people couldn't just build army's.

I think this discussion would perhaps be the best way to maintain nekros current support class, but also make him more valuable to the team as well not making him bullS#&$ overpowered.

You could fill an entire room with shadows and it still wouldn't be OP, because the shadows just aren't that good.
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You could fill an entire room with shadows and it still wouldn't be OP, because the shadows just aren't that good.

That's the reason i put a better behavior on my personal list.

There was this guy that only asked for a new name, "summon audience", that got it spot on.

A buff in that direction wouldn't even be that hard to code. They simply need a higher aggro range, calculated from YOUR position. Something like 50m. Theyr stock behavior is basicly LoS on a couple meters whats simply not enough.

Acting shadows would be pretty badass. Some do give effects and they scale so i agree to OP. It would be allright if you give them a weaker base on a maybe higher possible quantity, creating the need to maintain them during the game. (while they do the dirty work like they're supposed to)

Edited by (PS4)CoolD2108
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I love Nekros, I do.

I think I got a decent balance between Desecrate and the rest of his kit, but I haven't done much in higher level nodes yet with him.

 

Going on the SotD thing, maybe they should make it like Nova's Null Star.

Have Strength and/or Duration boost how many shadows you can have out at once, it's not dependant on a timer, and can't be recast until you're down to 0-2 shadows. With a max of 8-10 shadows if you build for maximum power/duration.

 

In that same vein: Let's make Desecrate synergize a bit better with the rest of his skills. Have enemies that are Desecrated be stored in his SotD buffer.

Sounds logical, right? You desecrate their being the best by having them come back to kill their friends against their will.

Or maybe that's just me.

 

I think this way you can have your farming tool, and actually not have the rest of the team babysit him the whole time.

They still should if they want to reap the benefits of his Desecrating for more loot, but he won't fall over dead any time he falls behind his team.

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I dislike how augment mods are used to band-aid problems with frames.

 

 

That said. I am actually grateful there's at least a band-aid instead of a gaping wound.

 

 

What I've found to make nekros a lot more durable and viable is to use Despoil and Shadow Shield (two of his augment mods) with rage and equilibrium. You can ride the knife's edge with power and health, it's a balancing game, but it does work.

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My biggest problem with SotD is the shadow AI and for lords sake the godd**n repositioning when using extended duration builds.If a shadow goes further than 50m or so it should manifest itself at Nekros position!If you are building SotD to be atleast somewhat effective you will go bigtime negative rangewise.

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I must be a Nekros GOD because I never seem to have the issues you are talking about.

 

I max range and basically ignore power strength/duration.  I run Corrosive Projection, Despoil, and Equilibrium...  Generally my only durability mod is a single vitality, if I feel I need more durability I'll replace a range mod with a vigor.  I tried a tank build with quick thinking before and it worked well enough.  

 

Nekros's #2, Terrify, is great.  Its annoying that it causes enemies to run away but its spammable and can fear effectively "everything" on screen.  Since this is the main thing I use energy on I can cast it 2-3 times back to back without issue.  Assuming I have some orbs around I'll get most of that energy back relatively quickly and if not I can kill the feared things, desecrate them, and then have orbs to get the energy back.  Worst case scenario I can drop an energy restore.  

 

Nekros's #3, Desecrate, is great.  While some will argue "oh your just a loot bot" or "its just a crutch for a bad drop system" I look at it more for making loads of orbs which I used with Equlibrium to keep heavily stocked on energy and health.  Despoil making it so I don't use energy for desecrate is great.

 

This makes the "core" of my Nekros setup.  I kill things, if I'm overwhelmed I fear things, then kill them.  Once things are dead I desecrate to gets orbs to keep killing things and fearing things.  Its works decently well in general.

 

I don't use #4 Shadows of the Dead much.  In general because I'm modding against duration/power its not as strong as it could be.  That said sometimes I will use it to pull out a couple shadows inbetween waves if relevant or there is a super crowded room.  In general though the issue with SotD is not related to the scaling but simply to the AI which is the same problem Nyx has with Mind Control, and similar.  The AI just flatly sucks, mostly they just sorta stand there as bullet sponges there damage and CC is just non-existent seemingly.  They also clutter up the screen more than I like.  

You can build around this skill, and "make it work" but in doing so why not just play trinity instead?  Trinity can setup insane damage resistances too, can keep constant energy up sorta like equlibrium nekros, and can even support the team more.  Perhaps if the shadows did more damage it could be an interesting build for trying to solo stuff but it still just feels like a gimmick to me.  

People talk about the casting time but you could literally have INFINITE casting time and it would be fine since you can fear everyone in the game since the fear changes.  Unless you are having energy issues cast times shouldn't be an issue unless you already put yourself into a serious problem outside of your cast times.... though I'm not really sure why you are having energy issues with Nekros. 

 

For a first skill, #1 Soul Punch is pretty solid.  It does some damage and can rag doll.  Nothing that great but most first abilties are like that.  The augment makes this pretty solid as a group ability for ranged instant revives.  I personally don't really use the augment due to 8 mod slot limit but if you were prioritizing revives over other stuff it could be worth it.  This skill is mostly just overshadowed by Terrify in most cases beyond the early levels of the game.  

 

 

I think a lot of you are just wanting Nekros to be something hes not.  The OP is wanting him tankier and beefier, presumably so he can go hard in the paint with a scythe while he has SHINIGAMI!!!! power fantasies.  Other people are wanting some sort of "zoo necromancer" like in D2.   The reality is Nekros is a support frame, he has some CC, and helps keep teams going smooth with lots of orbs.  

Presumably you could even run special 3man team comps with 3x CP + "maximized terrify" that effectively mimmicks 4x CP.  Which could free up a team slot for energy siphon, steel charge/rifle amp/whatever, or even just running content as a 3man while still getting full armor shred.  

 

Nekros is a solid frame who is fine as is, unless you are talking about moral opinions on things like "desecrate shouldn't even exist, just up the drop rate!".  Play to his strengths, and not your power fantasies of a "warframe of death" and you shouldn't have many issues with him.  You could even go "god of death" melee only if you focused on a channeling life strike build using your energy almost purely for channeling.  

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So Brosephelon you run a Augmented Desecrate+Terrify?What exactly do you do when the mobs reach the lvl when you have to empty a whole clip in just one enemy?Or when a nullifier pops up with a mob under the bubble?Or you are shot at from a distance that Terrify cannot reach?Your build will only take you as far as your weapons otput, granted that goes for Sotd but atleast SotD will draw some of all that agro, give you backup that scales and when augmented gives a %dmg reduction.

 
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I think the only power that needs a look is soul punch all his other powers have some function terrify=panic button  desecrate=health/ammo (when not abused for farming) and SoTD=main damage power but the only real use ive ever found for soul punch is knock somebody down and do a ground Finnisher witch only works sometimes because every other time i use it ti launches who ever i hit with it across the floor like a hockey puck and by the time i chase them down there up and charging me again. thay need to change the damage from impact to slash and add a lot of utility by taking out the carry along and have it force prock knock down (like Oberons smite) and bleed and add a wide projectile out the enemys back (like the projectile the fluctus AW gun shoots) this will keep the power basically the same but make it way more useful (in my opinion) 

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Ehe equilibrium despoil max power max constitution and primed continuity hit desecrate gain full hp and energy terrify sotd desecrate again to refill my spent energy and any hp i might have lost during the cast then go on my merry way killing the world around me honestly is very easy very safe just positioning timeing and judgment

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I disagree with buffing a frame because you're unable to find a suitable time to cast Shadows. Terrify is quick and easy, It's perfect for pushing mobs away whilst you cast Shadows. If you're finding yourself dying all the time, just practice casting it at suitable times, rather than giving up and asking for a buff.

This.

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So Brosephelon you run a Augmented Desecrate+Terrify?What exactly do you do when the mobs reach the lvl when you have to empty a whole clip in just one enemy?Or when a nullifier pops up with a mob under the bubble?Or you are shot at from a distance that Terrify cannot reach?Your build will only take you as far as your weapons otput, granted that goes for Sotd but atleast SotD will draw some of all that agro, give you backup that scales and when augmented gives a %dmg reduction.

 

Hopefully this BB code quote tag works, since the forums seem to be getting slammed at the moment.

 

Basically Kleerr2, The build is ideally suited to groups, its specifically built with running corrosive projection in mind since it doesn't need energy expect to spam fear and Equilibirium is generally more than enough to keep that going, and there are energy packs if needed.

Damage in general isn't that bad, Terrify is an armor shred, combined with your own CP even if solo is still a decent amount of armor shred to help kill enemies.  

For the most part you are not going to be solo'ing 40+ minutes of survivals.  Could you?  I guess but its not really my cup of tea, I'd rather do it with a group regardless of frame/weapon/etc.  

 

Finally as you said yourself SotD isn't going to change this, a best case scenario is that it helps you live a bit longer.  Its not going to do anything about being able to kill enemies effectively.  

 

Basically I think you a presenting a scenario that doesn't really exist, even at wave 20+ or minute 40+ enemies will still die, sure you might need to shoot them 2-3 times but if they are feared it doesn't matter too much.  If you are having issues with bubbles I'd suggest carrying a good machine pistol secondary, they tend to chew threw bubbles decently if your primary can't.  If the bubbles are relatively isolated you can go melee, with lots of energy + life strike you should be able to channel them down and remain alive without too much issue unless they are covered in bombards/whatever.  

 

At the end of the day for high end content (infinite duration defense/survivals) its all about CC and your weapons.  Things like Mesa/Saryn are going to get outscaled to the point they don't just obliterate everything.  But your good highend weapons like Dreads and Tonkors are not, they can still crit hard and strong especially with armor shred.  Bubbles are always an issue, and they can really gimp your terrify spam if you need it..  though they are not impossible to deal with.  This same issue with bubbles is experienced by basically all CC frames like Nyx, Hydroid, Vauban, you name it.  All of these frames except maybe Hydroid would have a much harder time solo'ing than Nekros because they are so squishy but also have no real sustain mechanics (unlike Nerkos or Hydroid).  

 

I don't think Nekros is untouchable or can solo anything forever.  But you are also talking about trying to solo the literal hardest content in the game.  If you want to do that go to Loki and enjoy your OP perma stealth.  But as a utility/support frame Nekros as is brings unique CC and support and does so in a meanigful way that isn't useless.  

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