Buying Warframe & Weapon Slots

[ETank]

First off, let me congratulate the devs on their choice of the reactor/catalyst mechanism for upgrading warframes and weapons. It's a nice way to allow both F2P and P2P gamers to enjoy the system, and, logically, there is an immediate advantage to those willing to pony up for it rather than grind away. So, kudos.

However, I am curious if the "slots" concept is going to see a similar avenue of thought - currently, there is a surprisingly stunted experience for players not willing to pony up real cash, with no alternative mechanism for that same experience (except, supposedly, multiple account farming, which is probably something undesirable). Is there an intent to expand the size of our slot inventory through either a pure credit purchase or a creatively rare blueprint? I'm aware that there has to be some exclusive incentive for using real money, and I have already put my money where my mouth is with the expanded colour palette (and indeed, it appears as if you have a future intent for custom skins, probably seasonally and whatnot, that will most certainly be cash-only).

Additionally, on a more practical level, it does seem rather counter-intuitive to have a beta, where the purpose is to stress-test the bugs away by as large an audience as possible, and then design a system wherein a subsection of your members will never be able to test more than 2 warframes or a fraction of the available weapons.

[Ryme]

Also, as demonstrated by the Afuris and Bolto blueprints, inventory space will become necessary to hold crafting components for certain crafting items. It's one thing to want to limit storage space to prevent excessive hoarding of duplicate items, but the current limit on storage impacts how much of the game a player can explore.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Ryme

[Foxbyte]

We're not only beta testing the game, we're also beta testing the pay model. Personally, I think that the pay structure for extra frames and weapons is pretty darned generous considering one platinum is about 7 cents at the most and weapon slots only cost 6 each. The things that are pay-only are basically being given away, and the expensive options are less pay limited than patience limited.

[Zakalwe]

F2Pers get a hell of a lot already. There had to be some store only incentive, and slots are perfect for that.

It's inconvenient for you? Then give something back to the devs and unlock some more room. Some people will be unfortunate to not be able to afford to, but thenthey've been given a very good game for free so I don't feel too sorry for them. The rest who can... I really see no excuse, pay what you'd expect to pay for a game of similar quality and access the good stuff!

And yes, this is closed Beta, but it's already better than the majority of modern pc games that charge 50/60 dollars at release. Imagine how good it'll get if more of you support it?

[ETank]

Actually, I never said that it was inconvenient. I actually said that people that don't purchase slots literally play less of a game than those that purchase arbitrary "slots". Additionally, as Ryme pointed out as well, multi-stage blueprints may very well be offlimits to those that don't purchase additional slots. If this is a design choice, that's fine, but you can't just say "DON'T BE ENTITLED YOU MOOCH THIS IS A BETA" as a smokescreen when I already acknowledged the value and incentive of exclusive purchasable rights vis-à-vis aesthetic customization.

[Zakalwe]

Yes, people who play for free literally play less of a game.

That's absolutely fair.

It's not like F2Pers are having a horrible time, instead of looking at what they don't get focus on what they do get. For nothing.

The store needs to remain viable so the game can survive. Customization is not the only thing that they can sell as not everyone cares for it, they need to somehow limit the free content so as many people pay as they can convince to. They're trying to make a living from this.

I think the best thing the devs can do is make sure that the paid for content is priced well enough that buying the "full" game seems worth it. I understand not everyone can afford to pay a lot, but I'm sure the majority can pony up at least $10. That'll let you buy a decent amount of slots and even some orokin boosters. Hell, even $5 and you get access to a bunch more slots.

I know I repeated myself a little there, but I'm trying to give perspective to my point as best I can.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Tykero]

The basic slots allowed a new account are absolutely too few in my opinion. If you don't allow people more space to hold stuff, the free players will simply quit when they hit that limit and can't try anything else without throwing away what they've got, especially since a large impetus for play in this game is the acquisition and improvement of new warframes and weapons. These people may not be paying into the game anyways, but free-to-play games still rely somewhat on their non-paying players to pad out the playerbase, which leads to an overall healthier, more profitable game. It is not obvious at first, but a low playing population is a large dis-incentive to supporting a game financially, as players will feel their investment may not be returned very well.

The current warframe and weapon slot system is absolutely insufficient. As a mechanic, it is arbitrary and limiting. As an incentive to pay into the system, it feels negative (pay for this or you can't hold much stuff) as opposed to more positive purchases such as new skins and the like.

It is my opinion that a significant portion of the money gained by selling warframe/weapon slots will be lost indirectly through player dissatisfaction.

I'm perfectly aware that the game needs some form of revenue to operate. I do not feel that this is it.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Tykero

[Zakalwe]

Well, all I can do is point at the many satisfied F2Pers on this forum and say i think it'll do just fine. Only time will tell, though...

I'd just like to say that whenever I see a F2P game that interests me, I decide to play it only if I can spend the amount of money I would have done if it were retail and get an experience I don't feel is limited. Warframe does that, and even offers me very reasonable grind in place of spending more in the future.

I think this will entice more than enough players to float development.

[Tykero]

Well, all I can do is point at the many satisfied F2Pers on this forum and say i think it'll do just fine. Only time will tell, though...

I'd just like to say that whenever I see a F2P game that interests me, I decide to play it only if I can spend the amount of money I would have done if it were retail and get an experience I don't feel is limited. Warframe does that, and even offers me very reasonable grind in place of spending more in the future.

I think this will entice more than enough players to float development.

I agree that the free-to-play aspect is pretty well-handled for the most part. Warframe and Weapon slots are a glaring flaw in the current design, in my opinion. If a player feels like he can't advance in the game without paying (and they will feel that way if they can't try out a Warframe/Weapon they're interested in without paying or trashing one they've spent time on) they'll just quit. You do not want your free players to quit.

[GzHertz]

First off, let me congratulate the devs on their choice of the reactor/catalyst mechanism for upgrading warframes and weapons. It's a nice way to allow both F2P and P2P gamers to enjoy the system, and, logically, there is an immediate advantage to those willing to pony up for it rather than grind away. So, kudos.

However, I am curious if the "slots" concept is going to see a similar avenue of thought - currently, there is a surprisingly stunted experience for players not willing to pony up real cash, with no alternative mechanism for that same experience (except, supposedly, multiple account farming, which is probably something undesirable). Is there an intent to expand the size of our slot inventory through either a pure credit purchase or a creatively rare blueprint? I'm aware that there has to be some exclusive incentive for using real money, and I have already put my money where my mouth is with the expanded colour palette (and indeed, it appears as if you have a future intent for custom skins, probably seasonally and whatnot, that will most certainly be cash-only).

Additionally, on a more practical level, it does seem rather counter-intuitive to have a beta, where the purpose is to stress-test the bugs away by as large an audience as possible, and then design a system wherein a subsection of your members will never be able to test more than 2 warframes or a fraction of the available weapons.

I hope there maybe some seasonal warframe design other default colour skin, I'm sure there will be more in the future or so. Well I think adding different warframe design will stand out for some players.

[Konnstruct]

I think they should do it like Vindictus, and give you more an extra inventory 'page' when you rank up along with whatever you unlock in the market (with a limit of course, maybe once at rank 2 and once more at rank 5?), with the option to purchase even more with platinum.

I hope there maybe some seasonal warframe design other default colour skin, I'm sure there will be more in the future or so. Well I think adding different warframe design will stand out for some players.

SANTACALIBUR!

Edited January 18, 2013 by FrydHamstr

[beeftime]

I agree that the free-to-play aspect is pretty well-handled for the most part. Warframe and Weapon slots are a glaring flaw in the current design, in my opinion. If a player feels like he can't advance in the game without paying (and they will feel that way if they can't try out a Warframe/Weapon they're interested in without paying or trashing one they've spent time on) they'll just quit. You do not want your free players to quit.

I think you've nailed it here, and this is something the devs should really think about. The slot limitations make it feel like a pay-to-unlock feature incomplete demo mode, not a game following a F2P model. Players who would pay for customization options/sidegrades/boosters down the road (or, at the *very least* make the game a richer experience for paying players) will absolutely get turned off when they find themselves face-to-face with a pay wall.

[Castron]

Weapon and warframe slots should be available for purchase with credits.

The ''F2P players get a lot already'' arguments only comes from people with a badge underneath their forum name if anything that would make your opinion on this subject biased. Limiting free players to only 2 warframes will if anything only hurt Digital Exremes' income because Warframe is designed as a free 2 play game so it's majority will be free to play players. The highest income source will be from people who buy some platinum now and then when they are really into the game. Limiting the progression will cause a ''screw this I'm going to play LoL'' reaction. Which, lets face it. has a FAR superior f2p buisness model at the moment. It is possible to unlock and play every champion in that game without paying a cent given you put enouge time into it.

In my opinion the platinum costing items should be limited to low and mid tier weaponry (skipping the progression curve), Experience and credit boosters (same as before), Revives (same as before) and cosmetic items such as the excalibur prime warframe. Blocking off a part of your free to play game to free to play players is insanely stupid and will cause more harm then good.

[Feindfeuer]

Why limit inventory slots at all? If anything having to buy additional slots makes me less likely to buy additional warframes/weapons as i either have to invest a further amount of money (real or ingame) or kick out one of my old space ninjas or murder tools. That's why i don't spend 'that much' on Blacklight, as i have to also invest into quick-select slots if i realy want to take advantage of my newly bought toys and that's why i heavily invested in War Thunder, as i never have to buy any slots to keep expanding my hangar, and can actually fit all available (non-premium) warmachines in my hangar without ever paying a dime.

[Castron]

Why limit inventory slots at all? If anything having to buy additional slots makes me less likely to buy additional warframes/weapons as i either have to invest a further amount of money (real or ingame) or kick out one of my old space ninjas or murder tools. That's why i don't spend 'that much' on Blacklight, as i have to also invest into quick-select slots if i realy want to take advantage of my newly bought toys and that's why i heavily invested in War Thunder, as i never have to buy any slots to keep expanding my hangar, and can actually fit all available (non-premium) warmachines in my hangar without ever paying a dime.

Exactly this.

Digital Extremes should change this quickly because it might even cost them money in the long run.

[Mak_Gohae]

I think this only becomes a problem when you get to the "end" of the game and your frames are max as well as your weapons.

I dont play the game a lot so i am not that deep in that i need to worry about this, and by the time i get a second frame to max i think if i put away one dollar a week i would have enough to pay the 5 bucks needed for the cheapest plat package which will give me enough to expand this stuff.

The first thing you folks NEED to remember and have on the top of your heads when discussing stuff like this is to remember that these folks have to make money. The argument of "you should give people more cause it would probably make them spend more cash," doesnt even stand on it's own because in that argument a player got to the point where the limitations became a factor by not paying for anything, so why would they suddently end up paying for something if stuff becomes less limited?

[Castron]

I think this only becomes a problem when you get to the "end" of the game and your frames are max as well as your weapons.

I dont play the game a lot so i am not that deep in that i need to worry about this, and by the time i get a second frame to max i think if i put away one dollar a week i would have enough to pay the 5 bucks needed for the cheapest plat package which will give me enough to expand this stuff.

The first thing you folks NEED to remember and have on the top of your heads when discussing stuff like this is to remember that these folks have to make money. The argument of "you should give people more cause it would probably make them spend more cash," doesnt even stand on it's own because in that argument a player got to the point where the limitations became a factor by not paying for anything, so why would they suddently end up paying for something if stuff becomes less limited?

There are a ton of free to play games with similar buisness models then this. Generally the ones with the least limitations are the ones who become the most popular and will bring in the most money. League of Legends being propably the ultimate example. The developers need to make money true but making a good and popular game with a huge playerbase is a FAR better way of doing that then making a awesome limited game with a small player base

[Feindfeuer]

Don't get me wrong, i have enough plat to buy all the slots i could currently need... i actually did that. But for ppl who come later, or if i had arrived later and wouldn't have gotten one of the founder packs to support the early development of the game, i'd probably would spend less on the game. Not because it's bad... but because i have to pay twice for a warframe and a gun... once for the item i want, and a second time for a slot to put it in. Even if it's a minimalistic price, it's something that makes me stop and think about if i realy want to spend money on something as trivial as a inventory expansion.

Withoug the limited inventory, i just impulse buy stuff, cause that's how i spend my gaming money.

[beeftime]

I think this only becomes a problem when you get to the "end" of the game and your frames are max as well as your weapons.

I dont play the game a lot so i am not that deep in that i need to worry about this, and by the time i get a second frame to max i think if i put away one dollar a week i would have enough to pay the 5 bucks needed for the cheapest plat package which will give me enough to expand this stuff.

The first thing you folks NEED to remember and have on the top of your heads when discussing stuff like this is to remember that these folks have to make money. The argument of "you should give people more cause it would probably make them spend more cash," doesnt even stand on it's own because in that argument a player got to the point where the limitations became a factor by not paying for anything, so why would they suddently end up paying for something if stuff becomes less limited?

It might be counter-intuitive, but if you look at other F2P business models (specifically the ones that do *very* well) are the ones that allow access to everything - or very nearly everything - by putting enough time in for free players. Usually, the only stuff locked behind pay walls are cosmetic upgrades (new skins, etc) and shortcuts (boosters, direct-buying weapons, etc)

Players are more apt to buy boosters and cosmetic stuff as they put more and more time into the game, and having an extremely robust F2P system is how to get players to spend more time on the game.

So, yes, there absolutely has to be a way for the devs to make money, but the argument of the OP (and one that I am in complete agreement with) is that locking more slots to free players is the wrong way to go about it, and will ultimately cost Warframe users and money. The way to make money in the F2P business is to give free players more game, not less.

[Mak_Gohae]

It might be counter-intuitive, but if you look at other F2P business models (specifically the ones that do *very* well) are the ones that allow access to everything - or very nearly everything - by putting enough time in for free players. Usually, the only stuff locked behind pay walls are cosmetic upgrades (new skins, etc) and shortcuts (boosters, direct-buying weapons, etc)

Players are more apt to buy boosters and cosmetic stuff as they put more and more time into the game, and having an extremely robust F2P system is how to get players to spend more time on the game.

So, yes, there absolutely has to be a way for the devs to make money, but the argument of the OP (and one that I am in complete agreement with) is that locking more slots to free players is the wrong way to go about it, and will ultimately cost Warframe users and money. The way to make money in the F2P business is to give free players more game, not less.

People complain about character slots in World of Warcraft and that's pay to play. This has nothing to do with the model and everything to do with poeple just always wanting more. People need to accepts limits, like i said, i dont play the game a lot so the "slot problem" has not hit me and by the time it does i think i can squeeze out 5 bucks to get them.

[Nulak]

I wonder if ads inside the game the way QuakeLive do it, can grant them some money income.

[Castron]

People complain about character slots in World of Warcraft and that's pay to play. This has nothing to do with the model and everything to do with poeple just always wanting more. People need to accepts limits, like i said, i dont play the game a lot so the "slot problem" has not hit me and by the time it does i think i can squeeze out 5 bucks to get them.

I haven't played WoW in ages but i HIGHLY doubt you are limited to 2 characters at a time.

[Feindfeuer]

People complain about character slots in World of Warcraft and that's pay to play. This has nothing to do with the model and everything to do with poeple just always wanting more. People need to accepts limits, like i said, i dont play the game a lot so the "slot problem" has not hit me and by the time it does i think i can squeeze out 5 bucks to get them.

I already spend quiet a bit of money on the game, so it's certainly not that i want everything for free. I just see inventory limits as a hurdle to spend money and not as a good way to make money as they cost almost nothing to begin with. It's a psycholocigal thing... i wouldn't even notice an increase of 20 platinum in the prices of warframes and weapons, but having to spend those 20 plat before buying said weapons and warframes makes me stop and think... do i realy want to do that, even though 20 plat are only like $1.33.

Atm i spend my plat freely, even on inventory slots, as i just got so much from the Founders Pack and there is not much you can spend it on anyway. But in the near future i might think twice about buying something, cause of having to expand my inventory first.

[Castron]

I already spend quiet a bit of money on the game, so it's certainly not that i want everything for free. I just see inventory limits as a hurdle to spend money and not as a good way to make money as they cost almost nothing to begin with. It's a psycholocigal thing... i wouldn't even notice an increase of 20 platinum in the prices of warframes and weapons, but having to spend those 20 plat before buying said weapons and warframes makes me stop and think... do i realy want to do that, even though 20 plat are only like $1.33.

Atm i spend my plat freely, even on inventory slots, as i just got so much from the Founders Pack and there is not much you can spend it on anyway. But in the near future i might think twice about buying something, cause of having to expand my inventory first.

Also this very much. Thanks Feindfeuer

[Ced23Ric]

US$5 + starter Platinum buys you 5 frame sots, 18 weapon slots. I'd say that is generous, given the circumstances.