New Warframe: Equinox (U17 Megathread Topic)

[BlueOwlRest]

rest/rage got double range... mend can restore shields.... Equinox just got BEEFED!!!!

 

Le Super Happy

Edited October 2, 2015 by AkemiStar

[ashrah]

selecting energy color u can start with side u like...black night wite day

[Laoshottie_X]

rest/rage got double range... mend can restore shields.... Equinox just got BEEFED!!!!

 

Le Super Happy

Not really, balancing your mods for Maim now suck.

[BlueOwlRest]

Not really, balancing your mods for Maim now suck.

....how do these changes effect Maim when they have no direct involvement in Maim? there hasn't been any real changes in Maim that I have seen. Only it's sister, Mend, has been given the benefit of restoring shields. Also, the energy consumption of Maim/ Mend has been reduced.

 

You sir do not make sense to me.

[tnccs215]

....how do these changes effect Maim when they have no direct involvement in Maim? there hasn't been any real changes in Maim that I have seen. Only it's sister, Mend, has been given the benefit of restoring shields. Also, the energy consumption of Maim/ Mend has been reduced.

You sir do not make sense to me.

Well, I kinda agree with Budha. With the new changes for energy drain, the only way to keep at maximum efficiency and negative duration with mend/main is with a max fleeting and streamline, and with duration over 40%. Since that her damage is kinda small (and for an extra buff in her 3), str mods are mandatory, and that means blind rage. And it screws so much, because now you loose wfficiency due to blind rage AND due to negative duration.

Keeping an efficient build, with decent range and strenght, is almost impossible.

I still think mend needs some buffs. Making it like mesa's 1, or simply speed up the casting (of mend, main would be too op) would be really really Good, because walking around with mend active "just in case" is simply not viable, which means that it must be activated when the situation requires, and, with that casting speed, either you or the teammate you planned to heal are alreasy dead, amd natural talent is simply not an option: I need those mods slots.

[Rhaenxys]

Mend giving shields is a good change but it should give overshields too because maim can accumulate whatever amount of points and never get wasted, mend, even restoring shields get wasted.

[BlueOwlRest]

Well, I kinda agree with Budha. With the new changes for energy drain, the only way to keep at maximum efficiency and negative duration with mend/main is with a max fleeting and streamline, and with duration over 40%. Since that her damage is kinda small (and for an extra buff in her 3), str mods are mandatory, and that means blind rage. And it screws so much, because now you loose wfficiency due to blind rage AND due to negative duration.

Keeping an efficient build, with decent range and strenght, is almost impossible.

 

.... before changes: Mend only healed health. Miam/Mend cost 25 energy to cast with 5 energy draining per second. Rest/Rage had the effective distance of 3 meters. Metamorphosis took a duration of like 2- 3 secs to switch

.... after changes: Mend restores shields and health. Miam/Mend cost 25 energy to cast with 3 energy draining per second. Rest/Rage has the effective distance of 5 meters. Metamorphosis takes 1 sec to switch.

The changes are small, but effective if used and modded correctly.

 

From what i'm getting is that you think the energy changes have hindered your mod build... which doesn't make sense since the energy consumption was reduced. You're saying the changes are not good and have not improved equinox but hinder her. The way of building her with mods hasn't changed from before changes. Also, have you tried Transient Fortitude? It's not as great as blind rage, but hey, its there.

 

 

Equinox may need a few more changes, but as good and effective as she currently is, I have soloed missions like Void survival T4 past 60 min.

[tnccs215]

.... before changes: Mend only healed health. Miam/Mend cost 25 energy to cast with 5 energy draining per second. Rest/Rage had the effective distance of 3 meters. Metamorphosis took a duration of like 2- 3 secs to switch

.... after changes: Mend restores shields and health. Miam/Mend cost 25 energy to cast with 3 energy draining per second. Rest/Rage has the effective distance of 5 meters. Metamorphosis takes 1 sec to switch.

The changes are small, but effective if used and modded correctly.

 

From what i'm getting is that you think the energy changes have hindered your mod build... which doesn't make sense since the energy consumption was reduced. You're saying the changes are not good and have not improved equinox but hinder her. The way of building her with mods hasn't changed from before changes. Also, have you tried Transient Fortitude? It's not as great as blind rage, but hey, its there.

 

 

Equinox may need a few more changes, but as good and effective as she currently is, I have soloed missions like Void survival T4 past 60 min.

 

Im gonna come here later and give you a better answer, but what is your build? (so I can try it)

[BlueOwlRest]

Im gonna come here later and give you a better answer, but what is your build? (so I can try it)

 

 

been doing standard...

 

Energy siphon or CP [] Enemy sense

redirect [] vitality [] fleeting expertise [] streamline

trans fort [] prime continuity [] stretch [] intensify

 

around 30ish min i switch to night form. I make good use of rest since rest can CC and increase damage done, so that's the reason why I put prime contin on. I also make use of pacify and mend. It may not be as great as you may have thought, but I have soloed this way for a while now.

[tnccs215]

Ill try that build. Thank you :)
I must admit, after some more playing, I did got less insistent about the efficiency problems and etc that I complained earlier. After all, main can be a rather op ability when used in a certain way.
However, I can't shake the feeling that the night form is extremely disappointing, because it had a lot of potential, but doesn't really live up to it.

Let me explain myself better:
While her rest ability is, well, downright great, her pacify has enormous flaws that diminish its usefulness in both solo and in a support role. While it's strange scaling prevents it from being too overpowered (you need 200% str to get to a 75%damage reduction), it has a characteristic that makes it almost useless:
Its distance scaling.
The distance scaling means that you need absurd amounts of both power strength and range to make it tolerable to use: Both in order to prevent a big "reduction" over distance: Modding for pacify us more of a struggle to make it usable than a struggle to improve it. Couple that with the fact that the only corrupted mod that improves range reduces power strength, and you have a terrible paradox to deal with.
In the end, pacify only really serves for melee mobs, and even then, only when they are attacking you. In the end, it fails spetacularly in a support role.
And in regard of mend... It's just hard to use. This is a mostly "reactionary" ability, that you use when the situation requires (because keeping such an ability running is just unviable), and, for an ability to be good when reactionary it needs to be fast, and the casting time of mend is just... Enormous, for a buff that, honestly, blessing does much better.
And I don't expect this to be another blessing. I just expect it to be effective in its own way. But unfortunately, it seems that mend was build as secondary to main, having to deal with its problems, but without giving equally worth benefits.
And its a shame, because I love equinox, I love the concept she represents, and I love the concept of the abilities:they are complex and intricate, and very dinamic to personal taste. On paper. Because, and this is what frustrates me, most of her abilities have small, but fundamental flaws that either force us into using only that power, ignoring the rest, or just make it barely usable at all.

My proposition into improving equinox would be to:
Make pacify damage debuff constant through space(that is, independent of the distance to equinox)
MAYBE improve pacify and provoke's range
Improve casting speed and range of Mend

Alternatively, pacify could work by improving allies (and self) armor. Would make it more in line with provoke, no?

P.s: I noticed that I can no longer use rest and change form: Now, the enemys wake up as soon as I change to day form. The same didn't happen before update 17.5 . Was this on purpose? Or should I make a formal bug report?

Edited October 9, 2015 by tnccs215

[BlueOwlRest]

P.s: I noticed that I can no longer use rest and change form: Now, the enemys wake up as soon as I change to day form. The same didn't happen before update 17.5 . Was this on purpose? Or should I make a formal bug report?

 

It's a bug.

And the debuff depending on distance does need to change to a constant through space, won't argue there.

[DarthVerna]

After more and more builds testing i like equinox even more now. Loved her before, love her now. 
Like some Tenno before me said Pacify still needs something, the skill IS good, and pairs really well with close quarters guns (shotguns, any melee) and a fast gameplay (if you keep jumping, sliding and climbing enemies that are far from you have a really hard time to hit you, so the real threats are the closest ones), but still is hard to balance dmg reduction AND range without losing too much in all the other abilities...A constant through space damage reduction would be just too powerful, i think that a bit more range, or a bit more basic damage reduction (or both) are enough...

Mend is still my biggest issue...Maim has stun, dmg over time and dmg bomb, mend...a heal/shield bomb...if i'm not mistaken NIGHT should be the "control" form, and i see a lack of control in mend, is still too hard to -activate -kill -deactivate when running low on health (in hig end content), some sort of cc is missing...why not an explosion proc when enemies enter the radius? JUST the proc, no damage, so enemies will be knocked down, or even an impact proc wich stagger like maim, that wold make the ability whole (IMO).
Just one more thing, rest/rage status aren't kept while changing form anymore, is that intended or just a bug? I REALLY hope that the user above me is right and it IS a bug, that would be one more reason NOT to switch form (and that's a shame).

Edited October 9, 2015 by Verna17

[tnccs215]

yeeeyyy we agree! (so rare on a bloody forum)

 

Yes, an impact poc, or slowing down enemies or... just something! mend is simply not "beneficial" enough and too long to use to be a "4". More often than not, I found myself dead because Im trying to activate it to heal myself or an ally. And most of the times I try to go and find cover, activate, kill enemy's, deactivate, said ally is already dead.

 

Well Verna, I don't know. I think either solution is better, but Im inclined to think simply taking of the "distance scaling" would be a simpler, cleaner, easier to mod solution. But if the range became much larger (like the double: yes, I said it), it would be a good solution too. yes, it was still dependend on distance, but it would be aplied to a much larger one (so, less "scaling-per-meter" so to say), and to many more enemys.

 

Well, gonna get fraps installed. got a bug to report

[00zau]

Here's my feedback:

 

Metamorphosis: I don't like the decaying buffs. It means that if you stay in one form for any length of time (which you have to do to make effective use of either version of 4, as well as either version of 2 so long as they're cancelled by switching forms), you essentially have no 1 skill and poor stats. Suggestion: Stat buffs are permanent while in a form, then decay over time once you switch to the other one. So Night!Equinox permanently has bonus shields and armor, which slowly decay when she switches to Day form, and Day!Equinox has permanent speed and damage, which slowly decay when he switches to Night form.

 

Rest & Rage: More of less fine as a 2. I'd like to be able to ground target the ability instead of unit targeting, making it easier to activate in a jam.

 

Pacify & Provoke: Provoke is basically perfect. Pacify's DR scaling down over distance makes it near useless except against melee enemies. I'd suggest doubling the range (giving Provoke the same range, which won't be OP), and the DR only starts to reduce in the outer 50% of the circle and/or only reduces to half the starting value. So with base stats, any enemy within 16m will deal 50% damage, then reducing down to 25% DR by 32m.

 

Mend & Maim: Maim is fine. Mend is crap. A burst heal that you have to charge up is virtually useless. If someone's in danger of dying, they're likely to die before you can charge Mend up enough to heal them. It also has no effect on enemies entering the range, unlike Maim. I'd suggest that Mend's damage pool act as a Quick-Thinking like buffer, where if an ally inside the aura who would be reduced to 0 HP, the damage is removed from the Mend pool first, meaning as long as you keep it charged you and your allies can't die. Power strength would effect the exchange rate for damage removed from the pool; if you have 200% power strength, negating 100 damage will only remove 50 from the pool, and if you have 50% power strength, negating 100 damage will remove 200 damage from the pool. It should also have some effect on enemies entering the area, perhaps a puncture proc.