Parkour 2.0 (U17 Megathread Topic)

[Prof_Blocks_007]

I can't believe the amount of whining and complaining here.

 

With coptering, you regularly got stuck to walls and barriers, and aerial mobility was limited.

 

With Bullet Jump you can move around at speed while flying over all those obstacles while shooting.

 

Aim Glide is situational, but can be used to conserve forward momentum, especially from a high start point.

 

The wall hopping is a bit odd, but it is far, far more maneuverable than the previous wall run. It doesn't lock you into the wall and fling you off without warning.

 

The regular jump felt a lot sharper when I first used it in the tutorial, and still does.

 

Parkour 2.0 makes coptering look awful and clunky.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Prof_Blocks_007

[Feyangol]

I can't believe the amount of whining and complaining here.

 

With coptering, you regularly got stuck to walls and barriers, and aerial mobility was limited.

 

With Bullet Jump you can move around at speed while flying over all those obstacles while shooting.

 

Aim Glide is situational, but can be used to conserve forward momentum, especially from a high start point.

 

The wall hopping is a bit odd, but it is far, far more maneuverable than the previous wall run. It doesn't lock you into the wall and fling you off without warning.

 

The regular jump felt a lot sharper when I first used it in the tutorial, and still does.

 

Parkour 2.0 makes coptering look awful and clunky.

I have two things to say here:

 

1.) No, aerial mobility wasn't limited. The combination of coptering, directional melee, slides, frontflip jumps, wallruns and wallrunslingshots (fast and slow ones) made it possible to have as much aerial control as now. But it was a lot more difficult to control (I needed 1-2 months to learn it perfectly, while the tutorial, 1 video and 30 min gameplay were enough to find the limits of the new parkour) and a lot faster.

 

2.) You are right, parkour 2.0 makes coptering look awfull and clunky, but it makes it only look this way. It isn't an efficient system anymore, it just looks good and that's all. There is simply no momentum in this new parkour.

 

I already asked this in the update 17 thread:

What happened to this two ways of moving?

 

 

and

 

 

 

This new parkour is simply missing speed, that's why I want to have this 4 improvements:

- Increase the momentum gain of bullet jump ("put the bullet in bullet jump")

- The first contact to a wall should have a momentum boost similar to the old wallrunslingshot but wtih controllable direction.

- Make it easier to start a wallrun/hop.

- Increase the base movement speed of all warframes.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Feyangol

[DawnFalcon]

It's tailored to the old system and covers up all it's shortcomings.

 

But so are all the existing maps and tilesets.

 

Thaumatos - You want people to adapt, i.e. play other games; now give. People play games for fun....

 

wilc0x - Exactly. Coptering really isn't the issue. I really, really hate the Bullet Jump spin, the old flip was far better. And I personally miss air melee.

(I'm sticking dash on and just going along the ground, it's just as quick. The stuff they showed in the first teaser looked very interesting, but they scrapped that and put this system in instead...)

Edited August 2, 2015 by DawnFalcon

[LegionVIII]

Preparing for these thoughts to disappear, but here goes anyway:

There are standards by which I'm a bit of a "noob" here, I've only sunk in about 300 hours over the past year. And I must say that the old movement system was awesome. It took some getting used to, but I loved it. 

 

That said, as soon as I started experimenting with Movement 2.0, I developed a crush very quickly. I love the new options for mobility, I love the split-second decision-making that allows new combat opportunities, and I have to say that I'm experiencing a freedom with Movement 2.0 that re-invigorating the game for me. Honestly, I am now enjoying remaining in missions longer just so I can see what sorts of moves I can chain together. I feel like a superhero in ways I never felt in 1.0.

That said, here are my complaints:

 

1) This is my biggest gripe, being that while half of Move 2.0 is more liberating and intuitive now, the other half has become less so, specifically wall-running. I'm still getting used to it, but the physics of wall-running has gone out the window. Yes, the animations are pretty junky (though I love the clawing-the-wall bit), and moving vertically looks absolutely atrocious, but for me I most miss the sense of weight my frame used to have while moving along a wall. There was an intuitiveness and feel that's missing now as I just "float" along walls and am never sure of where I'm going to be. Likewise, the inability to spring off of walls has cost me dearly in Void runs, lately. I expect that shot of momentum you get from back-flipping onto another wall, or sling-shotting  between two parallel sets of walls. That sort of movement is no longer possible without a double- or bullet-jump in between, and it's become far more efficient for me to wall-run-into-bullet-jump-into-wall-cling-into-bullet-jump, which looks and feels cool but it kills the momentum and costs me time.

 

2). DE has already mentioned they're working on this, but with Movement 2.0 it becomes quickly obvious how outdated the maps are. I mean, several Void runs are arguably MORE fun now because of the brand new ways of traversing them. There's a puzzle-solving element now, and a real reward for feeling like you've discovered a way to cheat the path by being clever and experimenting, especially when you try something split-second and it actually works (which is made possible by wall-hanging and gliding). I don't want that to go away, I would love to see new tile-sets be "solveable" with multiple approaches and movement strategies. I guess I'm asking for maps that are updated to challenge the new movement system without becoming the linear hallways they currently are. 

3) Small, specific gripe compared to the above: the bit-box for a wall-hang seems very small. Several times I've jumped up to within a foot of a wall and started gliding into it, and once that happens there are really no recovery options. I'd like to see more consistency when transitioning from a glide to a wall-hang, or at least feel more confident that I'll get the result I'm doing for, because I think both of those new additions are spectacular. 

TL;DR: Movement 2.0 made me fall in love with Warframe all over again, except for:
- Wall-running is inconsistent, counter-intuitive, and weightless, and has lost some valuable movement options. Also skipping isn't bad-&#!. 

- New tile-sets need to adequately challenge and reward the new system, especially since the current tile-sets did not adequately challenge or reward the old system.  

- I hate it when I glide face-first into a wall I wanting to hang from. 

[LegionVIII]

Also, in response to a few of the gripes: 

 

I really, really hate the Bullet Jump spin, the old flip was far better. 

 

Honestly, I really like the Bullet-Jump, in so far as it stylistically makes sense along with gliding with (what appears to be, anyway) the addition of little jet systems in the Warframes. Having that momentum come out of literally nowhere wouldn't make any sense (and who knows, maybe I'm just seeing something graphically that no one else is seeing which is allowing me to ignore something else). 

 

I think this goes back to my above points about physics, though. We want the graphics and the controls to match up with what's actually happening. The moment our frame appears to go into zero-g, we want something to make sense of why that's happened and how it's possible. Currently, I feel we do get that from the Bullet-Jump (even if it still needs work) and from Gliding, but not at all from wall-running. 

[XPHAku]

Now I have only seen a few posts on this, but why in the name of the Lotus do I still have to hold down a run button? Windows will only let you hold down so many buttons at once, then you add my arthritis in and now I have to hold 5 buttons 2 more than windows will let me, and still give my hand craps from holding like 5 to 7 buttons just to make one silly jump that makes my warframe look like some $&*&*#(%& kangaroo instead of the awesome space ninja he is. At the very least give us always run, it's not like running takes stamina anyway. This has been an issue I had before not being able to at least toggle always run, but not there isn't even a point to not running making the game cost me pain in my wrists in order to play, I didn't mind before but not I have more buttons to push faster. Personally I didn't see what was wrong with the old movement, it just need some cleaning up not a total rework.

[Acidtrees]

And you didn't think that was ridiculously and exploitative? That such a bug or glitch warranted use just because it helped you cover 150 metres in 2 seconds, while the balance of the game did not matter?

 

In my almost 2000 hours of playing, I have rarely seen people use coptering exclusively, in large places like Cerberus or Void defense so it actually seems that the loss of true 100 metres per second coptering affects very few people while the majority are getting a smooth bug free system which is as good as directional meleeing and slide jumping, that actually allows you to ninja more precisely.

I thought it was mad fun being fast. I have no clue what you're talking about balance, I still died a lot, and I had fun doing it.

I'm glad the 'majority' are getting the game they want. I've been trying to enjoy the new system, and the closest I can come to tolerating it is via spamming jump+roll, but it's not even close to fun for me.

[Emeraudes]

Right, so since everyone is talking about the parkour itself, I'd like to speak about the other element that parkour 2.0's removal of stamina affected.

 

Blocking is now percentage based, the percentage is far too low for me to consider blocking normally anymore so I'd channel-block. However, as I equip life-strike on my melee, this increases my channeling consumption to a point where I cannot stand through a barrage for longer than 2 seconds sometimes without depleting all my 425 energy.

 

The mods affected by the changes to blocking are reflex guard and reflection. Reflex Guard is now a rare 10 rank, 14 mod point convenience that enables you to not hold down guard 55% of the time. It does nothing more.

 

Reflection does not reflect damage on regular guard, but I'm not sure if it's working as intended. If it isn't and this is fixed in future updates, it means that Reflection is now more useful than Reflex Guard as you can keep your guard up forever without any additional issue besides the percentage of damage that hits you through your guard. This means that a 5 rank common is now more useful than a 10 rank rare.

 

Unfortunately, this turns me away from any sort of blocking at all for survivability, mobility is the only option for any kind of substantial damage negation. This update is upsetting in that it actually took away one of my favourite playstyles(the sword wielding, parrying samurai kind) in the game, not from adding strictness to the method but by reducing the effectiveness(almost absolutely) of a feature in this game.

 

My warframe's mods have become substantially more generic in build instead of having a specialised melee oriented mod setup. As a result, there is actually less of an inclination to use melee for any purpose besides one channeled hit for lifestrike.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Emeraudes

[Alphafox]

I have two things to say here:

 

1.) No, aerial mobility wasn't limited. The combination of coptering, directional melee, slides, frontflip jumps, wallruns and wallrunslingshots (fast and slow ones) made it possible to have as much aerial control as now. But it was a lot more difficult to control (I needed 1-2 months to learn it perfectly, while the tutorial, 1 video and 30 min gameplay were enough to find the limits of the new parkour) and a lot faster.

 

2.) You are right, parkour 2.0 makes coptering look awfull and clunky, but it makes it only look this way. It isn't an efficient system anymore, it just looks good and that's all. There is simply no momentum in this new parkour.

 

I already asked this in the update 17 thread:

What happened to this two ways of moving?

 

 

and

 

 

 

This new parkour is simply missing speed, that's why I want to have this 4 improvements:

- Increase the momentum gain of bullet jump ("put the bullet in bullet jump")

- The first contact to a wall should have a momentum boost similar to the old wallrunslingshot but wtih controllable direction.

- Make it easier to start a wallrun/hop.

- Increase the base movement speed of all warframes.

This is really that kind of parkour I was waiting for, it look alot more fluid.

 

I can't believe the amount of whining and complaining here.

 

With coptering, you regularly got stuck to walls and barriers, and aerial mobility was limited.

 

With Bullet Jump you can move around at speed while flying over all those obstacles while shooting.

 

Aim Glide is situational, but can be used to conserve forward momentum, especially from a high start point.

 

The wall hopping is a bit odd, but it is far, far more maneuverable than the previous wall run. It doesn't lock you into the wall and fling you off without warning.

 

The regular jump felt a lot sharper when I first used it in the tutorial, and still does.

 

Parkour 2.0 makes coptering look awful and clunky.

Dude, this is a thread for people to give their opinion about the system.We would be a bunch of  hypocrite if we pretended that the system was perfect.

Without feedback there is no amelioration, get that in your head buddy. 

[LegionVIII]

 

Unfortunately, this turns me away from any sort of blocking at all for survivability, mobility is the only option for any kind of substantial damage negation. 

 

You were able to make that work for you? Good on you, Frankly, felt that mobility was always the only option for damage negation. 

 

Also, if I can throw in my two-cents on coptering... I also kinda thought it was silly... 

 

[ducks in cover]

 

Not that coptering was bad, but in the old system, coptering was the single method of efficient movement. I was never interested in using the terrain to my advantage under the old system because it simply wasn't viable; whether it was getting to the end of the level or just getting from one side of the room to the other to reposition, coptering was always the only viable form of efficient movement and I got really sick of that after a while. 

 

So no, I don't think there's anything in Move.2.0 that's as efficient as coptering... But damn if it isn't more varied and, imho, fun... 

[Emeraudes]

You were able to make that work for you? Good on you, Frankly, felt that mobility was always the only option for damage negation.

 

yeah I was. In fact, it was what I was using to run my t4 survivals even pre-excalibur rework.

[dorkzillaa]

Had to know the first post on this topic was gonna be copterQQ.  Go away.  All you people should be giving feedback about is pros and cons of things that will be worked on.  Coptering isn't coming back and was 100% not required for anything in Warframe ever.

 

Not quite sure why they decided to go with hopping on walls instead of running.  Could have made the hop optional or a different control.  Faster or not, wall running was working just fine.  It was the wall flinging (tapping the wall to run for just milliseconds before releasing and flying forward) that people abused the hell out of...and appears to still be around.

As a player who mainly used weapons ill-suited to coptering, objectively you're wrong on a number of levels.  The goal of parkour 2.0 should have been to find a way to preserve the feeling of speed a player has as they are moving through a level.  EVEN IF full coptering was exploiting a bug to begin with, (and that is up to debate too) many players (myself included) have played this game for this long because it's fun to go fast.  DE should have focused on creating fun alternatives to an allready accepted part of their game, methods of player movement that compliment coptering, give alternative directional movements, or even INCREASE the speed at which a player can move.  What we got instead is a crippled mobility system designed from the ground up as a bandaid fix to PERCIEVED design flaws.  Why does coptering have to be removed at all?  It doesn't affect anyone's gameplay if they chose not to use it.

 

TLDR:

+better airdashing/general air mobility

+we John Woo movie now with the bullet glide

-worse footspeed/general ground mobility (I DO NOT OWN A TIPEDO, ORTHOS, ZORENS NOR ICHORS-MY two favorite melee weapons are Gram and Galatine)

-sprint after slide requires a re press of the key

-no slingshot leap out of slide

-NO momentum out of a spin attack (find a way to nerf chaining them if its really a problem, dont make them useless as an in-transit damage tool)

-wall running was smoother for horizontal mobility than the hopping

[Wakeoflove]

So yeah, I am here, next-day to tell you that it feels like my pinkie needs to be in a splint. Even after switching shift to be crouch so I could press it more easily, having to press crouch before hitting jump and having to re press it every time (holding it down or toggling crouch on does not work) results in the need to press press press press press press press press that button and my pinkie is actually sore today. I have NEVER had that happen before. At the very least, bullet jump needs to activate from a held crouch, but again would make so much more sense if it was attached to sprint. Sprint=high mobility sprint+jump=high mobility jump, I don't see how this is not a thing except that copter=crouch got stuck in the dev's minds. Holding down sprint for all my high speed maneuver never bothered me in the past and I imagine it won't for the future, as long as it can be HELD and I don't have to keep press press pressing with my pinkie.

[CrimsonSkies00]

The bullet jump is great but remove weapon coptering and slide move attack range make the movement speed more clumsy,sometimes the tileset limit the bullet jump will hit onto the wall,sometimes you will feel the parkour is just squirm like an insect,that not a ninja anymore,pls fix it  weapon slide attack range and coptering is needed,update is make the game more improve,is not making the game more regress.

[Stormfrenzy]

Simply put: The parkour 2.0 system now finally makes the Tenno feel really super-versatile.

 

I love the way it enables us to access an area from so many different angles, speeds, and attack modes. The removal of Stamina means that you float through the levels linking your kills between fluid melee frenzies into almost zen-like moments of bullet-time floating while picking off the heavies.

 

I also REALLY appreciate that we can now use all melee weapons again without being punished with a more restricted set of movement options and/or movement speed. A very welcome change!

 

Not since the removal of the Warframe ability mods have I felt that an update so fully captured the essence and soul of what Warframe truly is and should be.

[SavageShulk]

First impressions: Time to uninstall the game.

I've enjoyed playing this game for years, but these changes make all movement feel clunky like any generic game ever. The magic of moving in a warframe is gone; the sheer joy of running and jumping is gone, and instead moving around has become a chore.

edit, to summarize the difference:

Before U17, I felt like I was playing a magical space ninja. Post U17, I feel like I'm trying to operate a rusty Transformer.

*waves goodbye*

*Throws a lei*

[Deidaku]

Another thing

 

would it be possible to make wall latch a toggleable ability.? Because I think it could work really well if used correctly

[Sci_Ant]

I'd like to see an option to turn off zooming when aimgliding and wall latching, low fov only makes it harder to aim, making both features more of a gimmick than something actually useful.

 

True for wall latching but for aim gliding? Isn't it supposed to help you aim better by zooming in? I think it'd be hard to shoot if it wasn't zoomed in on the aim glide. Either way, to make it optional would be best.

 

Thats true, but a large majority of the current tile sets are confined within hallways or have low ceilings. With the old system it didnt matter how high the ceiling was in the dojo because you couldnt launch yourself that high. So im simply making a comparison of the new system under the parameters that are given in the rest of the majority of the game. Apples to apples.

 

Its like saying "we've given you the ability to jump to the sky.... if you can figure out how to get out of the hallways"

 

So I went in game and played around for some time in low ceiling environments till I came upon a unique way to never go higher than waist height and still move ahead quite fast (@ 20 metres/second to be exact). I've made a tutorial video on how to do this and this should help alleviate the problem and give you a new way to use Parkour 2.0 in many situations.

 

 

I agree nobody used copter exclusively, and I am not sad to see it go.  However, the other aspects of the old system, most notably the slide -> jump front somersault, were not game breaking and were better for navigating the existing maps than this new "bullet jump" that has replaced it.  Everything else I wrote below in this post is in reference to the front somersault move and not coptering.  Coptering is something I never used in the original parkour system.

 

The original parkour system looked and felt more ninjalike. The new jumping feels like playing Luigi in Super Mario Bros 2--slow and floaty.  Parkour 2.0 breaks the flow of the game on any tileset that has confined ceiling spaces because the bullet jump launches you upward when you use it out of a slide, causing you to hit doorframes and ceilings and fail to clear obstacles that were clearable before with a simple slide -> jump.  Why did they remove the slide -> jump somersault?

 

You could argue that the new "Bullet Dive" makes up for this, except the bullet dive:

a) is tied to the aim button(a terrible decision because it activates aim, which causes zoom, making aiming during the manuever difficult and causing the camera to spaz out, which looks awful)

b) occurs at a fixed speed and kills player momentum

d) is part of a new movement combo that is far more awkward to use than the old slide -> jump -> slide combo, which really wasn't difficult to do

 

What I am getting at here is that Parkour 2.0 is not as good for everyone as it is for you.  The slide jump somersault maneuver was, in my estimation, far better than its clunky replacement.  There is no good substitute for the speed and trajectory of forward somersault in Parkour 2.0.  I don't understand why it was removed.  It would have fit into Parkour 2.0 just fine. 

 

I also disagree with your assertion that Parkour 2.0 is smooth and bug-free.  It feels incredibly floaty to use; causes the camera to zoom in and out awkwardly; and introduces a new, more complex, and poorly designed set of button presses to use effectively.

 

I totally agree that the slide jumping somersault and directional meleeing was the best non-copter move and I used to do that exclusively.

 

To your point about bullet jump making you hit door frames and ceiling areas, I went in game and did a lot of testing and found a new combo to move fast while staying near the floor at all times, the tutorial to which I've posted above.

 

To your third set of points, bullet dive is not at a set speed and you can actually increase the speed by immediately pressing crouch so that your foot is forward while you aim glide. I had made and posted a vid about this move a few pages back but you can find it here > https://youtu.be/XJMVTy4KWvM

 

I understand you may not like it now, but give it time, experiment with it and you will see there are many ways to move fast even with this new system. :)

 

I agree with the camera movement which is ofcourse intended but needs to be removed or made optional.

[wilc0x]

Not that coptering was bad, but in the old system, coptering was the single method of efficient movement. I was never interested in using the terrain to my advantage under the old system because it simply wasn't viable; whether it was getting to the end of the level or just getting from one side of the room to the other to reposition, coptering was always the only viable form of efficient movement and I got really sick of that after a while.

Not so.  Slide -> Jump somersault was also very effective for moving efficiently.  At least, more effective than what we have now.  I did not use coptering in the old system and I never got left behind.

Edited August 2, 2015 by wilc0x

[Ezariel]

•  

• ​Wall Dash:  Pressing the ‘Jump’ button while against any surface will allow players to hop along the surface in any direction.  This can be used to scale vertical surfaces, and can be chained indefinitely.

 

It look idiotic. It's usfeull, but wallrun was usefull also and looks very nice. Just reintroduce it. Bunny hoping is bad!

 

 

New movement hve some problems.

 

- Instant jump in attack sequence (smashing Space when you push [E] = instant jump + air slash = fast moving forward) is not posible anymore. This limitmobility potential of WF. Now when i using Exaltd Blade or just Meele attack, i must wait for end attack animation, before I can use jump. If i try use jump in attack animation, nothing happens. Its bad

 

- Climbing when you near in wall or edge is not possible anymore. When I stand near edge or wall and try jump / wall run. nothing happens. I must stand in a little range of wall, because if I stand directly beside it, WF don't rect on jump command. Before update when you stand near edge, WF grab edge and climb up. Now he dont do that. Same with Jump. It's really  annoying.

[mkah_mvet]

Not so.  Slide -> Jump somersault was also very effective for moving efficiently.  At least, more effective than what we have now.  I did not use coptering in the old system and I never got left behind.

in the old system, a combination of slide jump, jump crouch, jump attack, and spin attack could get you anywhere quickly.  Coptering was only a small part of it, especially useful in low rooms, to clear under low obstacles.  Don't know why everyone was always all about coptering when it was always jump attack that could carry you furthest fastest (especially with polearms and whips.)  Yeah, this new thing as killed the joy of high mobility.  Sure, you can more readily access harder to reach locations, but with how much grinding is in this game, ain't nobody got time for that.

[-InV-igo95862]

There is new technique: somersaults

 

 

Inb4 "nerf somersaults"

Edited August 2, 2015 by igo95862

[Greyryder]

The old system always felt clumsy, awkward, and half out of control. The new system doesn't seem to be taking me long at all to get the hang of. I've discovered that there are a lot of places on Phobos, with gaping holes in the terrain mesh.

I do prefer the wall running animation, to the new hopping animation. But, that's mostly aesthetics.

I do miss flipping out of a slide, though. I used that far too often, for no other reason than I liked the way it looked.

[Doom_Bunny]

I enjoy the new system but did you have to remove all the momentum in a regular slide attack? I enjoyed being able to get a nullifier or group of enemies with my melee before having to kiss them. You were able to get a nullifier from outside their bubble or a group of enemies from outside the group. Now though the slide attack does nothing unless I'm a few inches from the enemy. The spin attack damage is practically not viable unless I use something like the tipedo.

 

Bullet jump:

The aiming feels too sensitive when trying to go directly up. The only way to go directly up is if I move the mouse so far up or down that the camera doesn't allow me to go any further. If I don't hit that point the bullet jump will just propell me forwards or up at an angle if I'm pointing the camera up.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Postal_pat

[Sci_Ant]

Posted a thread in player's helping players with all the Parkour 2.0 tutorial / tips and tricks videos I've found till now > https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/501727-tutorial-parkour-20-tips-and-tricks-tutorial-videos-collection/

 

Hope it helps people. :)

Edited August 3, 2015 by Sci_Ant