Parkour 2.0 (U17 Megathread Topic)

[Sci_Ant]

I'm lumping the melee nerf in with this terrible system. (If parkour 2.0 is smoother for you, you sucked at warframe, that's all there is to it. It more than doubles the button mashing, forcing you to focus on mashing instead of getting to your destination in the fastest most graceful way possible.)

 

With the melee nerf, there is reduced choice in effective weapons, not increased. This stated development goal is a failure. Pre-nerf, my preferred weapon was tonbo, though sometimes I'd go with amphis. Tonbo had better mobility than tipedo and better damage, but sometimes a staff would be appropriate for the particular mission and was satisfying. Whips were pretty cool to use too, though all weapon categories were *fun*. Even weapons like obex were satisfying and fun even if it wasn't as effective over the course of a whole level. I never liked any of the swords that much because they always fail at applying their damage to the targets (which the melee nerf also functions as a damage application nerf, making them even worse now.)

 

Now it's not a question of fun. Now it's a matter of Scindo Prime is best. Period. My spreadsheet says so. There's no point in picking a weapon that can only hit a limited number of targets per strike. Especially in a slide attack. It is always preferable to kill a cluster of targets with 1 slow powerful strike (+1 free strike if you have the one good stance) than it is to work through the targets one at a time. Scindo prime has the highest damage per strike, and it can apply that damage to the most targets in the least amount of time. Slide attack nerf exacerbates this even more... now there's no point in using slide attack with any weapon without the longest reach in the game.

 

Fewer criteria for choosing a weapon means fewer niches for different weapons means less diversity in weapon selection.

 

Scindo P is still slow and unwieldy. I still prefer my Tipedo over the Scindo P solely based on my past experience with it as a reliable and high reach / range melee and not as a coptering weapon.

 

There are actually a lot more criteria that a person will choose their melee weapon according to now rather than 'which one copters fastest'. So no, this is not fewer criteria, there is full freedom to choose any melee weapon you want since it is now free from the system of movement and is unbiased.

 

And stop contradicting yourself. First you say you found moving fast 'fun', then you say using Obex while moving far slower was also 'fun'. What?

 

Now you can choose any of those weapons while moving at the same speed which is only limited by your knowledge of and practice with the new system.

 

Oh, and I can still kill a large group of targets with my Tipedo faster than with the Scindo P, since it is a faster weapon with more range on it.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[mkah_mvet]

Scindo P is still slow and unwieldy. I still prefer my Tipedo over the Scindo P solely based on my past experience with it as a reliable and high reach / range melee and not as a coptering weapon.

 

There are actually a lot more criteria that a person will choose their melee weapon according to now rather than 'which one copters fastest'. So no, this is not fewer criteria, there is full freedom to choose any melee weapon you want since it is now free from the system of movement and is unbiased.

 

And stop contradicting yourself. First you say you found moving fast 'fun', then you say using Obex while moving far slower was also 'fun'. What?

 

Now you can choose any of those weapons while moving at the same speed which is only limited by your knowledge of and practice with the new system.

 

Oh, and I can still kill a large group of targets with my Tipedo faster than with the Scindo P, since it is a faster weapon with more range on it.

So there can only be 1 criteria for fun now?  Well, button mashing never was fun, which is the main focus of the new system.  Obex has (had? haven't tried it since the update) a very physical feel.  It felt like you were making a strong kinetic contact with the target.  I imagine that's been nerfed as well with the slide attack nerf.  Yeah it was a fun satisfying feeling, even if it was less effective.  But the new criteria isn't about what's fun.  That's the point.  Now it's go scindo p or go home. 

 

Scindo P can do it's slide attack and cover just as much ground as any other weapon now, except with scindo p, you know you're going to kill everything on the first strike without having to worry about mopping up.  I don't see any hard data on strike ranges, so I can't comment on range but I also have to assume your own comment on range is unreliable, though scindo p feels like it has a comparable if not wider kill radius to me.  With tempo royale's horizontal cutting strikes, even normal attacks have the cc of slide attacks with any other weapon... "unwieldy" doesn't matter when to be effective it's as simple as "stand in the general vicinity of your target."  Sure, people will continue to use less effective weapons because they confuse "looks cool" with "is cool", but that's always been the case.

"you can choose any weapon" is true, sure, but that's always been the case.  The difference is now your decisions matter less, unless you picked the single best weapon, because now there can be a single best weapon, and it can be measured by kills/second.

[HurpadurpusRex]

Scindo P is still slow and unwieldy. I still prefer my Tipedo over the Scindo P solely based on my past experience with it as a reliable and high reach / range melee and not as a coptering weapon.

 

There are actually a lot more criteria that a person will choose their melee weapon according to now rather than 'which one copters fastest'. So no, this is not fewer criteria, there is full freedom to choose any melee weapon you want since it is now free from the system of movement and is unbiased.

 

And stop contradicting yourself. First you say you found moving fast 'fun', then you say using Obex while moving far slower was also 'fun'. What?

 

Now you can choose any of those weapons while moving at the same speed which is only limited by your knowledge of and practice with the new system.

 

Oh, and I can still kill a large group of targets with my Tipedo faster than with the Scindo P, since it is a faster weapon with more range on it.

You miss read him. he said the obex was fun pre nerf.

 

A loss of mobility limits every weapon with a high spin slash output in the game, reducing the viability of every such weapon. Your Tipedo did not get better with this implement.

[Roctave]

I have to say I enjoy this new movement system. Reading a lot of the comments on this thread there seems to be a lot of people decrying it on ruining the speed, or perhaps nerfing melee and whatnot. As a melee enthusiast from before melee 2.0, and person who enjoys going fast that never exclusively used coptering to do so, I believe this new movement system answered a lot of the problems it set out to fix. I would say I'm shocked by how harsh some of these comments are, but, given this has the entitled MMO crowd, I'm not. So, for the sake of variety, I'm going to throw my two cents. 

I'm not seeing too many complaints about the new bullet and double jump mechanics too much, and if there are its mostly by comparison to coptering. I figure the reason they set out to make a system better, or atleast on par, than coptering is because it was unintentional and many people stuck with whatever copter'd the fastest. This basically ruined all that hard work that went into Melee 2.0. Bullet jump does add a lot of versatility to warframe and does make the existing, older parkour sections of tilesets much easier, but to complain about this is to complain about the less than satisfied look you give yourself in the mirror after drinking toilet water. Its expected, or at least should be expected, and future areas will be made with the movement system in mind. 

Aim glide I'm not seeing too many complaints with either, a lot of people enjoy being batman and there is a good amount of fun gliding through the air and shooting up the bad guys before you touch the ground again, it is a bit weird with snipers but, most slow motion bits usually feature one-handed weapons anyway. When most think bullet time's slow motion most will also probably think of handguns. 

 

Lastly, there's the new wall running, or hopping now. I figure there's two reasons why they changed from wallrunning into wall hopping: First, it was to address the bugged wall fling where you'd wall run for a split second to launch yourself across rooms. While it was fun, knowing DE eventually all bugs get squashed, I don't miss it one bit, cause it was weird jerking around like that. Second, I believe was to give us more control. With the older system when you wallran you couldn't change direction, you'd have to let go and latch onto another wall to do that. With the new wall hop you can change direction after each hop, giving us more control on where we want to go. It does feel a bit weird right now, but I'd put that more on that its new after having wallrun for so long.

 

I also have to say, I was the guy that did all the parkour rooms and loved them, I liked jumping all the way up that tall void room, the derelict laser test and all the others. I enjoyed going fast, but I actually had rush on my warframes rather than abuse coptering. Slide attacks are supposed to be for attacks, a means to hit multiple enemies way back when melee weapons had a fixed number of enemies they could hit, however, I do see opportunity for change with slide attacks in particular. 

Now that coptering's gone, I would like to see something done with slide attacks now as they do feel a bit sluggish Half of me would like to see more stances changing the slide attack as each stance's slide attack does have its own name, but only a few stances actually change it like Blind Justice. Or perhaps I'd like to see a combo that starts with a slide attack and continues into a more Area of effect-based combo. 

There's always room for refinement and I'm sure that DE will comply and correct, but rather than being allergic to change, experiment. That is what this game, its mods, warframes and mechanics is all about. 

[Sci_Ant]

You miss read him. he said the obex was fun pre nerf.

 

A loss of mobility limits every weapon with a high spin slash output in the game, reducing the viability of every such weapon. Your Tipedo did not get better with this implement.

 

Not using the Tipedo for mobility. :) It's still as much fun for killing stuff.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[Monolake]

AirGlide shouildn't be tied to zoom! It's unusable with snipers, like was already said, and causes sea-sickness after long usage. Please separate this functionality/effect.  I would remove zoom effect all together from gliding, or maybe just use another keybind.

 

Also you constantly get glued to corners or even stones on the ground.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Monolake

[Sci_Ant]

AirGlide shouildn't be tied to zoom! It's unusable with snipers, like was already said, and causes sea-sickness after long usage. Please separate this functionality/effect.  I would remove zoom effect all together from gliding, or maybe just use another keybind.

 

Also you constantly get glued to corners or even stones on the ground.

 

Zoom on aim glide just needs to made optional. And about the second point, yeah it is kind of difficult to aim glide near the floor if there is even a railing or small box in your way since it will most probably attach you to that instead of letting you go forward. 

[FishNipps]

SCROLL TO BOTTOM IF U HAVE THE ATTENTION SPAN OF A 4 YEAR OLD LIKE THIS GUY<----- I HATE READING TO... SHORTER VERSION BELOW

 

Some ideas and opinions (from very experienced Parkour players view):

 

wall latch- Made for new players, no real situation where u would need to shoot enemys from hanging on a wall other than it looks cool i guess.

 

wall run up - sooo basically we have infinate wall run back? i guess thats cool but thought de was moving away from that. (not much opinion)

 

Bullet jump - Good but wish it would get a little buff with the new exilus mods.. rank 9 22% is ok i guess but the more experienced players are used to going fast and are highly skilled at parkour this system seems restrictive, slow pace, and almost not worth playing. If the game cant keep par with ones skill set then the game will lose interest.

 

**wall bounce/running** -    (I am most adamant about this topic.) Definition of Parkour- The activity or sport of moving rapidly through an area, typically in an urban environment, negotiating obstacles by running, jumping, and climbing.

 

Wall bounce / wall latch / and run up / make the name "Parkour 2.0" a contradiction in itself. These significatly limit the ability to use obsticals in a quick dynamic way. *i.e in parkour 1.0 i could grab the side of a box/wall/surface jump off grab a wall spring through a tight hole jump off a pannel blah blah blah to get to say.. the void secret rooms. Parkour 2.0 options are to run... or run bullet jump... or endless wall run(hop)..

 

There seems to be no more "obstical negotiating" which is the exact deffinition of parkour and has taken a really special aspect out of the game for me. This limitation has made the machanics of parkour tiresome, dynamically challenged, and hum drum. I dont expect to mele an entire room and by all means am not saying go back to that but I would go as far as saying navagating a map now seems to be a grind in itself.  Every step or bullet jump is less fun then the last.

 

aim glide-  Not sure if this is supposed to be like a bullet time matrix slow mo thing or if the frame is just magically gliding when i look through my crosshairs.. im not sure i fully get grasp the concept here.. I dont have a problem with it really but it just seems more likely that i could catapult myself across a room with a staff then aim a gun and start to float to the ground?.. idk i get that it might be fun for newer players but who is seriously gonna use that in mission to kill enemys.. why not land and shoot them. what ever, i just cant see where or how this came about as a thing.

 

Stamina removal- i think every one loves this... but not sure that the arcane helms got a good trade off for it... if u have arcane helms chances are u know what ur doing (well some of u at least) That being said ... who the hell is going to use an arcane helm to hang on walls longer or use the magical crosshair to float slower. And how is a helmt helping u grab onto a wall/ magic float longer?

 

science: the helmet connects to a blue tooth device pre installed into every wep that wep uses fairy dust and as we all know blue tooth sound waves and fairy dust mixed make the tenno float longer then a normal tenno scrub without the arcane helm. When lining up ur optics to any wep the ionic sequences hamberger the pizza man and poof! u can float longer and hold onto walls longer.... and yes... even mele crosshairs work this way.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

IF you dont like reading then heres the short version

 

Aim glide- i just dont get it...

wall run up- We removeith the infinate wall runnings.. then givith it back... right?

wall latch- pointless really.

Bullet jump - needs a small buff but its alright really. only made pointless for parkour with the obstical dynamic ability nerf (aka actually parkouring)

Wall bounce/running- If you take out the tenno ability to use terrain dynamics from parkour (with the new wall running/climbing system).. then u just have tenno that can run jump and climb. This makes the name "Parkour 2.0" is more like Marathon 2.0 then anything.... on the bright side marathon 2.0 doesnt have stamina so we are all gonna be friggin sweet. haha jk

Stamina removal - Think every one loves this except the arcane helms with stamina + or -... magical fairy dust in every arcane helmet connects via blue tooth to all weps crosshairs. the optics to crosshairs create the neverland and there-after opens up and it hambergers a pizza and u can magically float/wall grab longer... science? rekt

Edited August 8, 2015 by FishNipps

[Sci_Ant]

More tutorial goodness and more reasons why I keep loving Parkour 2.0 more and more, it's a veritable rabbit hole of combos and movements :D >>

 

[aoguro]

movement/parcour 2.0, all what we have had with coptering is now needed with:

 

1. new modding of your frames

2. new modding of your frames and wasting time and space and fun for levelling your frames AGAIN

3. eats ressources and the mods which are offered TO HELP TO MOVE BETTER creates less possibillities then coptering ever had

 

i mean, why should i glue myself on a wall or "rule the enemy from above" in total tight hallways ?

 

where is the new environment where i "can take hands on the enemy from above" by not getting "ruled" by the spammabillities of lots of frames and weapons and even more, the spamming players =))))))))))))))))))))))))) LOL ? really ...

 

im not shure whats up with the development of warframe

 

the new tileset on uranus is ok, i appreciate that, but what did we get with U 17 ?

 

after 8 month of development and patiently waiting

 

a few changes on the missiontypes etc. ok, thx for that

 

and another ok, maybe we dont get all now and DE moves this new too short quests with no good result into pieces for the next 12 month

 

i tell you not what i will do if this all doesnt change asap, im not here to get fooled for my real money i putted in ... i dont need to be sucked off my wallet by this new mods, formas i need etc., i have given it with my choice into warframe, i dont need this "bad tricks for getting cash" which appeared very offensive with U 17, sorry, cant tell you better stuff about

 

i would like to be more happy as well as im not really touched anymore about the first rule of f2p-games: satisfaction guaranteed or you loose the playerbase =)

 

sorry, most boring update ever - except the new tileset

 

warframes development has become a "shadow of itself" ...

 

but im shure the new moves and other things spoil tons of cash "in the needed and created direction" ...

 

too bad i have a mind which i try to use usefully, i wanna be provoced to use my mind in a game ... ^^)

Edited August 9, 2015 by LEEV_

[Sci_Ant]

^ Wow, really?

 

Who has forced you to use the Exilus slots or new mods?? I don't like the current effort required to be able to use an Exilus slot either, so I just don't use it.

 

And why are you going on about wall latching / aim gliding? Where did anyone tell you that was the only way to play with Parkour 2.0? I rarely ever use wall latching or aim gliding in combat but the rest of the moves are extremely useful for mobility, just look at the video I posted right above your comment.

 

Please give some time to actually learning it instead of blindly stating that it's all for a cash grab by DE.

[Faulcun]

Ok, aside from my other posts, my new biggest gripe is that you cant bullet jump backwards. This means there is no fast movement backwards.

 

I was using one weapon, an unranked dual grakata, in a 20 min survival run on eris (infested). I cannot describe my frustration of not being able to move backwards quickly.

 

But bullet jump is dependent on the direction of aim. If you are moving backwards, and attempt to bullet jump, you will be launched in a forward motion in whatever direction you are facing.  I think this should be true for forward motion only, however if the back button is pressed, we should be able to perform the maneuver backwards as well.

 

This is a serious limitation to only move forward.

[Arkhenbarn]

Ok, aside from my other posts, my new biggest gripe is that you cant bullet jump backwards. This means there is no fast movement backwards.

 

I was using one weapon, an unranked dual grakata, in a 20 min survival run on eris (infested). I cannot describe my frustration of not being able to move backwards quickly.

 

But bullet jump is dependent on the direction of aim. If you are moving backwards, and attempt to bullet jump, you will be launched in a forward motion in whatever direction you are facing.  I think this should be true for forward motion only, however if the back button is pressed, we should be able to perform the maneuver backwards as well.

 

This is a serious limitation to only move forward.

 

In this case, they had to make a choice. If they allowed us to jump independently on where you looking, we would have got a more limited and less accurate Bullet Jump. Purely free of movement, or limited but more useable in combat ; that's the dilemma. The point of Parkour 2.0 is giving players more freedom, so they sacrificed the usability.

 

That's my theory, I may be completely wrong ^^' .

[Faulcun]

In this case, they had to make a choice. If they allowed us to jump independently on where you looking, we would have got a more limited and less accurate Bullet Jump. Purely free of movement, or limited but more useable in combat ; that's the dilemma. The point of Parkour 2.0 is giving players more freedom, so they sacrificed the usability.

 

That's my theory, I may be completely wrong ^^' .

 

I think its as simple as a parameter check of what directional button(s) are being pressed at the time. The angle of aim can still apply to the jump height, but if you are asking to jump in a direction that is anything but the way you are facing, then it will always be, and should be expected to be,  less accurate.

[Skeks]

So after struggling for a week to get a hang of this new movement system, I was finally able to do so by turning up the intensity of the combat. For anyone else having difficulties adjusting their playstyle I suggest trying conclave with the new system. Makes you learn to use it very quickly.

[Sci_Ant]

I think its as simple as a parameter check of what directional button(s) are being pressed at the time. The angle of aim can still apply to the jump height, but if you are asking to jump in a direction that is anything but the way you are facing, then it will always be, and should be expected to be,  less accurate.

 

Maybe this will help? Quick dodge move in any direction, almost like a Bullet jump but better.

 

[Skeks]

Hey sci is that also how one changes the direction of glide mid air? I've noticed I'm able to completely shift directions while glide blocking but find myself unable to do it consistently.

[Sci_Ant]

Hey sci is that also how one changes the direction of glide mid air? I've noticed I'm able to completely shift directions while glide blocking but find myself unable to do it consistently.

 

Hi there. Well for dodging in mid air you need to press roll while holding a direction and aiming during aim glide.

 

If you press crouch and hold a direction in mid air then it will put your frame's leg forward and slowly turn you in the direction of your selected WASD key.

 

To change direction instantly do a single jump / bullet jump etc., do an Aim Glide and then release Aim when you want and do a Crouch + Jump in the direction you want to go in Aiming with mouse. You can initiate another Aim glide then in the new direction.

 

Hope that helps. :)

Edited August 9, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[Faulcun]

Maybe this will help? Quick dodge move in any direction, almost like a Bullet jump but better.

 

 

Not quite what i was looking for. In the old parkour system, you could roll jump backwards. Not only that, but a roll jump would elevate you  enough to jump over enemies or move past them when they are blocking you. Bullet jump will do this as well, just only in the direction you are facing.

 

The move in the video is a good move, but I would imagine only has the most benefit in pvp.

[Sci_Ant]

Not quite what i was looking for. In the old parkour system, you could roll jump backwards. Not only that, but a roll jump would elevate you  enough to jump over enemies or move past them when they are blocking you. Bullet jump will do this as well, just only in the direction you are facing.

 

The move in the video is a good move, but I would imagine only has the most benefit in pvp.

 

Well you could always do the following:

 

1. Hold aim, hold the back button and press roll and it will backflip you like it always did.

 

2. Jump, then hold aim, press back and roll, it will backflip you but in the air.

 

3. Do a Jump, then hold back and double jump backwards.

 

See the following video for the 2nd and 3rd moves, hope it helps >

 

Edited August 10, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[mkah_mvet]

Well you could always do the following:

 

1. Hold aim, hold the back button and press roll and it will backflip you like it always did.

 

2. Jump, then hold aim, press back and roll, it will backflip you but in the air.

 

3. Do a Jump, then hold back and double jump backwards.

 

See the following video for the 2nd and 3rd moves, hope it helps >

 

 

 

Because that's a much more natural flowing system to accomplish something that used to be simle that's not at all clunky, awkward, or weird.

[Wakeoflove]

As it turns out, I have yet another item to add to the compelling list of "High mobility bullet jump should be attached to high mobility sprint key, not crouch." reasons, so on top of:

 

Logical.

Flow.

Ease of execution.

Intuitive.

Generally: "Duh."

 

We also have:

 

I just went into archwing and was like "wtf? why can't a sprint?" It turns out that by swapping my crouch and sprint keys to compensate for the terribad decision of tying bullet jump to crouch because the crouch from copter just HAD to stick in the system somewhere, my archwing is all kinds of fracked, and in fact wouldn't even sprint from the ctrl key I had rebound to sprint... so yeah, for the sake of keeping the controls the same between archwing and ground, lets attach bullet jump to sprint, regular jump is the jump you do without sprint, and tada, fixed.

 

I mean, archwing was bad enough, if you're going to force me to switch my control scheme every time I switch between the two, especially now that archwing/ground hybrid missions are a thing... yeah, that's just not gonna work.

[Sci_Ant]

As it turns out, I have yet another item to add to the compelling list of "High mobility bullet jump should be attached to high mobility sprint key, not crouch." reasons, so on top of:

 

Logical.

Flow.

Ease of execution.

Intuitive.

Generally: "Duh."

 

We also have:

 

I just went into archwing and was like "wtf? why can't a sprint?" It turns out that by swapping my crouch and sprint keys to compensate for the terribad decision of tying bullet jump to crouch because the crouch from copter just HAD to stick in the system somewhere, my archwing is all kinds of fracked, and in fact wouldn't even sprint from the ctrl key I had rebound to sprint... so yeah, for the sake of keeping the controls the same between archwing and ground, lets attach bullet jump to sprint, regular jump is the jump you do without sprint, and tada, fixed.

 

I mean, archwing was bad enough, if you're going to force me to switch my control scheme every time I switch between the two, especially now that archwing/ground hybrid missions are a thing... yeah, that's just not gonna work.

 

Or we could just ask for different keybinding sets for Land and Archwing? Or just use 'C' for Crouch instead of Ctrl so you can hit Crouch + Jump more easily?

Edited August 10, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[Sci_Ant]

Because that's a much more natural flowing system to accomplish something that used to be simle that's not at all clunky, awkward, or weird.

 

The person who I replied to had a problem moving backwards while jumping which took 3 Button Presses (holding back, pressing crouch + jump). If those moves I stated are such a problem for you then it's even simpler to just do the following:

 

1. Have your frame facing backwards and tap roll, it will roll towards the camera, backwards. 1 Button Press.

 

2. Hold back and tap Jump, does a back jump. 2 Button Presses.

 

3. Hold back and tap jump twice, does a back double jump. 3 Button Presses.

 

4. Hold back, tap jump and tap roll, does a jump roll backwards. 3 Button Presses.

 

So what I have just stated takes less or equal button presses compared to the old backwards slide jump, which was the intended action. So please don't say it's a lot more complex than the 'simple' move of old.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[Suthurn]

parkour 2.0 feedback:

 

i like the new zipline thing where you run on top of it. much better than the old version. i also like the double jump ability. the glide ability is also pretty neat. 

 

i really dislike the new wallrun animations of just hopping along. i much preferred the old smooth run. this new animation is just not eye pleasing at all and makes it seem like the screen is jerking around. it also seems much more difficult to switch between two walls when wall running which is annoying.

 

also not really a fan of the added 'bullet-jump' thing at all. at a certain point it just becomes too many things to try doing. that is what this feels like. its as if you just wanted to add more and had nothing else to do.

 

 

edit- after playing a couple games i have to say the removal of coptering is really killing it for me. it was such a fun feature once you knew how to use it and now the game just feels really bland. i know some people will say whatever they like, but strapping on a rush mod in the new slot and trying to use parkour 2.0 just isnt the same thing. it is not as fun for me. meh, whatevs. maybe im just done with this game. i cant remember the last time i was excited to play. 

Edited August 10, 2015 by Suthurn