Parkour 2.0 (U17 Megathread Topic)

[aerosoul1337]

1. Wall climb and wall run is really awkward now, and doesn't make controller easier :/ (old version is way a lot better to be honest).

2. Bullet jump, a bit weird that it jumps very "vertical" and high while I am looking down / gliding.

Why not let it have easier horizontal bounce? We already lost coptering...

 

I like double jump though...

Edited August 1, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[Acidulant]

New camera movement that has been implemented with new parkour can be only described with one word: terrible

Edited August 1, 2015 by Acidulant

[I-JUST-EAT-YOU]

Rather than a new thread, I thought this probably fit here...

 

Please make all the camera movement added with Parkour 2.0 optional.

Camera zooming in and out when you slide is just jarring, rolling and melee also has this.

Frankly it makes it unpleasant to play the game, which presumably isn't the feeling you are going for, right?

 

For everyone else ^ keyword is optional, underlined for your viewing pleasure, please take note.

Well sir exactly my opinion, we even have the same pics. I like you! :3

[Hysuma666]

I want parkour 1.0 back. NOW

 

This new system is way too easy and "un-realistic" and ruins the skill effort it required to reach some places ... Looks like they wanted to add new mechanics but lacked the imagination to build new systems, picking up "old stuff" we can see in so many other games (aka "double jump", "bullet time jump", etc) to keep kids happy and not needing to spend so many time to get used to the mobililty sistem.

 

All of which in my honest opinion, is a turnback and a lose to the original concept of warframe to just make it more confortable to "softcore" gamers.

[Deruser]

Am i the only one who experienced this? The side rolls to left and right is a lot shorter when you're using melee. All in all though, I like the new system, bullet jump can be a little further though and dodging in the air is a little weird too, can we make new animations for those?

[aerosoul1337]

Got some problem, sometime during the mission, I was unable to roll completely.

Not sure what move triggered it.

[Domaik]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/500149-bullet-jumpdouble-jump-mechanics-are-cranky/#entry5598095

 

I can't double jump in mid air if I did a bullet jump first.

 

I can't bullet jump in mid air after double jump...

 

 

in the end combining the parkour movements is quite a pain and I dont understand the logic...But it might be my 3 years warframe muscle memory I guess....

 

I just end sliding most of the time rather than bullet jumping because I can't combo it into anything and yes i'm pressing the keys properly.

 

Why does it have to be so complicated? I can't even do it comfortably from the ground so I get the double jump after bullet jump...

 

Somehow I was deceived into thinking this would be much more easy to execute...who didn't hear steve say this would be easier to execute physically as in pressing keys...it's quite tricky if you ask me. 

 

some guys in my clan were also pissed with this and commenting warframe is now more skill-requiring than before.

 

I like this parkour, I really do but it needs to be a bit easier... and a bit more fluid when you try to put 2 actions together and maybe just maybe faster but this is no problem for me

 

I want to be able to combo double jump and bullet jump one after another in any order instead of having to think what I want to do beforehand and getting stuck trying to do it and failing at it...

[Mak_Gohae]

Here is a video of me doing dojo obstacle course

 

 

Look at the amount of keys I used. How is it less carpal syndrome?

 

You dont need to be pressing sprint while doing all the jumping.

All the buttons you need are ctrl, space bar and w.

The eliminated 1 button.

It's still repeatedly button pressing but it requires one less button. 

The whole less carpal T syndrome was just a line to sell the product.

Every time DE sells something on a stream its AWESOME.

[HurpadurpusRex]

I really dislike it. Asthetically an functionally to me it is a total downgrade. I want a roll back on the parkor portion of the patch.

Edited August 1, 2015 by HurpadurpusRex

[Thaumatos]

Sprinting

 

By default, there is no limit to sprinting.  Stamina has been removed.  Why am I required to continuously hold down the shift key now?  And don't talk to me about toggle, it still requires a re-toggle after some maneuvers.  Make the old "sprint" control reversed into a "walk" control.  We should always be sprinting unless we need to sneak around.

 

The only things that should stop me from sprinting are aiming, crouching, and walking.

 

This will also help the 'feel' of stealth attacks.  Like you're doing more instead of doing less to get that precision strike on an unsuspecting target.

 

Stamina

 

The removal of Stamina is a good thing.  The removal of the bar was unnecessary.  There is now a duration for which you can glide and wall latch.  Let that be represented by the same bar that once made the oh-so-hated Stamina measurable.  Allow people to see just how long they have to perform those actions.

 

Jumping

 

Bullet Jump - "Crouch" + "Jump"; Default [Ctrl]+[spacebar]

Double Jump - "Jump", "Jump"; Default [spacebar], [spacebar]

 

Combine them.  They're needlessly separated and somewhat backward.  First jump would be a regular jump, second jump is a bullet jump based on reticle position.  Keep the switched slide jump as a bullet jump first so that players can gain momentum before maintaining it with a second jump.  Then just make regular jump that awesome 'flip' animation you've created.

 

With the new system, there's almost no reason to use a normal jump unless you're going to double jump or bullet jump.  And you only get two jumps anyway, so there isn't any point to it.  You'd either be replacing the normal jump with a bullet jump or the double jump with a bullet jump.

 

 

Gliding

 

Aim Glide - While in mid-air, "Aim"; Default While in mid-air, |Mouse2)

 

This is an excellent addition with one major flaw.  Just because I want to glide doesn't mean I want to zoom in on the topmost pixel of the enemy's head to examine what resolution I'm playing at.  In other words, separate them.

 

What better way to introduce the new "Walk" effect?  Hold [shift] and walk, or while in the air, hold [shift] and Glide.

 

Wall Navigation

 

Wall Hop - "Jump" Near wall; Default [spacebar] Near wall

Wall Latch - "Aim" On wall; Default [Mouse2] On wall

 

Recreate the wall run by using these mechanics and my proposed Aim Glide mechanics.  As you jump at a wall, holding "Shift" will "latch" you...but not stop your forward progress.  Instead, as you're holding [W], it will create a wall run situation.

 

The duration of your wall run will be directly dependent on how long you can wall latch.  After time has been spent, you will require another jump.

 

Allow players to stop mid-run and continue a normal latch.

 

New Controls

 

All in all, the new default controls would be as follows:

 

[spacebar] - Jump, Bullet Jump

[Ctrl] - Crouch, Slide, Air kick

[shift] - Walk, Glide (In Air), Wall Latch/Run

[Ctrl]+[spacebar] - Bullet Jump

|Mouse2) - Aim

 

I believe this would be more intuitive and would keep people from constantly having to crouch just to get a better version of jump.

 

Oh and Coptering...

 

Edited August 1, 2015 by Thaumatos

[aerosoul1337]

Big issue with Bullet jump:

Aiming down while performing bullet jump on the ground-> you jump UP, top ahead straightly... vertically.

Aiming down while performing bullet jump in the air-> you dive DOWN straightly.

Completely confusing...

 

This makes horizontal bullet jump a bit painful if you are trying to perform it when gliding.

You have to aim real far and exact horizontal, otherwise you will not perform a horizontal bullet jump from the ground.

 

I suggest:

Aiming lower than horizontal while bullet jump on the ground should always perform a horizontal bullet jump.

This makes sense since you can't "jump" into the ground.

And this can compensate the removed coptering a little.

[Faulcun]

Before anybody assumes Im commenting on this too early, or I havent had enough practice yet, I want to point out that under the old Parkour system, my obstacle course run was a low 28s area. After some time spent yesterday in there with the new system, I managed to beat my old time by a full second at low 27s using the same frame. I think we can all agree that the 27-28 second area is nothing to sneeze at under either parkour system.

 

With that being said, the obstacle course obviously is designed for the old system where legit runs were accomplished running the full course. The new parkour system trivializes the course... as expected. Each section in the course can be skipped completely by simply jumping over it. This was the only way I managed to beat my previous time record. However, when trying to run it legit, its slower, and sluggish. Navigating the same path as the original system seems to actually require more work than before in order to maintain the same speed, which it does not. I suggest this comparison in the dojo because you are limited to only your basic parkour moves.... so coptering isnt even a factor here.

 

I also want to point out what could actually be done with the old parkour system by showing a challenge I issued to my clan:

 

 

When compared to actual missions, the lateral and horizontal movement of coptering is superior. (before anybody comes back and says coptering was broken, a bug, or doesnt make sense, I want to point out that double jumping, or bullet dodging isnt any less ridiculous). The majority of the tile sets are inclosed tunnels or hallways. Using the new parkour system results in much more vertical movement and hinders speedy progress through the mission, especially through doorways.

 

I do like the options of vertical movement with the new parkour system. However, wall jumping/hopping is super slow. Progressing quickly through a mission by using walls is not efficient. Unless DE has a team of people who are preparing to go back through every single tile set to optimize it for the new movement system, I cant fathom why they would create something that is so far out of place. Even the brand new underwater tileset falls massively short of showcasing the new system.

 

As for melee-only combat, I feel limited. I use two frames for Melee only combat: Ash and Excalibur. Now melee combat hasnt been hurt as much as I was expecting it to be. However, without coptering, im finding myself having to rely on slash dash or teleport more to chase enemies down, especially ones that teleport like manics. Bullet jumping is fine if they are farther away, but if they are two close, you end up jumping over them or past them. I am not a fan of spamming powers. I am a strong believer that with good footwork, you dont need to spam powers to win. Therefore, I like to reserve my energy and powers for situations where it serves a purpose. I now feel myself having to use some of these powers now to compensate for a lack of mobility in certain situations that probably will only arise when playing melee only. At this point in time, I would be apprehensive to bring a melee only build to a high level mission (enemies lvl 80+). Having the ability to move between enemies at short to mid range is essential to surviving with melee only. Right now I feel that even though still manageable, the new system has hurt this style of gameplay more than it has helped.

 

All in all, I think the system needs more polish. I dont hate it and can compensate just fine, but as far as maintaining the speed of the game (as a suggested concern from the stream), I feel this is a failure in that regard.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Faulcun

[Thaumatos]

(before anybody comes back and says coptering was broken, a bug, or doesnt make sense, I want to point out that double jumping, or bullet dodging isnt any less ridiculous). T

It was a broken system, a bug, and it looked terrible.

 

Double Jumping isn't a bug, is built into the system, and doesn't look terrible.

 

Your logic is extremely flawed.

 

Edit:

 

Real life has no bearing on Space Ninja Lizardmen who fight Human Degenerate Clone Armies.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Thaumatos

[Faulcun]

It was a broken system, a bug, and it looked terrible.

 

Double Jumping isn't a bug, is built into the system, and doesn't look terrible.

 

Your logic is extremely flawed.

 

Edit:

 

Real life has no bearing on Space Ninja Lizardmen who fight Human Degenerate Clone Armies.

 

"it looked terrible"

 

This is an opinion, not a valid argument.

 

Your edit, sums up your comment on my logic being flawed. You cannot argue anything in the realm of "space magic". For example, why does spinning in the air make me go faster..... space magic. How is it that I can jump again in mid air? Space magic. Every argument of coptering, or wall launching, or whatever.... is just plain stupid.

[StahlEngel]

Now that we have 9 pages of *@##$ing let us change pace and start to give DE well thought out ideas to fix the problems with parkour 2.0 as this will be much better than just *@##$ing at them.

 

from what I see the last 9 pages bunny hop animation and speed is a problem .

 

and yes a "wall run" should be a run and not a hop.

[Deus_X_Machina]

I finally found how I can sum up the feedback about Parcour 2.0 best.

 

Sadly I couldn't find exactly what I searched, but this is good enough:

 

This is what I wanted, cause it looked awesome.:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/435031-cant-stop-watching-this-trailer

 

This is what we got:

 

Seems like you had the right movements, some time ago.

Why didn't you use them?

 

 

[P.S:

And just to add a detail: The wall hopping in the tutorial has a description that doens't seem to work for some, it reacts slow and is overly frustrating.

It worked the first time around more or less, but when I try to do it again it is the one part of the parcour that doesn't run fluent.]

Edited August 1, 2015 by Deus_X_Machina

[Thaumatos]

"it looked terrible"

 

This is an opinion, not a valid argument.

 

Your edit, sums up your comment on my logic being flawed. You cannot argue anything in the realm of "space magic". For example, why does spinning in the air make me go faster..... space magic. How is it that I can jump again in mid air? Space magic. Every argument of coptering, or wall launching, or whatever.... is just plain stupid.

1. If you don't think that repeating the run animation extremely quickly to cover the distance coptering provides looks terrible, you're an artistic lunatic (Edit: but believe me, those people still turn sh!t into gold).  Even most coptor-abusers agreed with that point.

 

2. My edit sums up your backward logic for explaining anything with realism.  Looks or not, realism has very little place in videogames.  You can't say something is just as bad because its just as unrealistic.  That's asinine.

 

Edit:

 

The only opinion that matters in the way of art, regardless of mine or anyone else's, is the Development Team.  Specifically the Art/Animation Development Team.  If they think it looks bad...then it looks bad.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Thaumatos

[AnnoyingBanana]

In my opinion only bad thing in parkour 2.0 is wallrun as hoping, everything else is brilliant.

[Terumitsu]

I think the main fly in the ointment for me in this new system is that the bullet jump does not appear to carry through your momentum at all, instead having set speeds. This is jarring when trying to make a 'long jump' and it is  bothersome trait when it is then followed up by a second jump that semi-inherits your previous momentum. Now, I would be perfectly fine if the bullet jump was a sudden burst of acceleration as then it would feel like a proper, powerful jump that makes you into a bullet of some kind but at the very least I would hope that the 'speed limit' of a bullet jump is looked at again.

 

I also feel as if it was said on some Dev-stream that it would inherit your momentum but I don't recall which one other than it being a recent one.

[-InV-igo95862]

You dont need to be pressing sprint while doing all the jumping.

All the buttons you need are ctrl, space bar and w.

The eliminated 1 button.

It's still repeatedly button pressing but it requires one less button. 

The whole less carpal T syndrome was just a line to sell the product.

Every time DE sells something on a stream its AWESOME.

 

I tried using only crouch button and it indeed turn out to be better

 

Here is another video from the dojo. My shift key is now crouch as it is easier for me to press.

 

[Faulcun]

1. If you don't think that repeating the run animation extremely quickly to cover the distance coptering provides looks terrible, you're an artistic lunatic (Edit: but believe me, those people still turn sh!t into gold).  Even most coptor-abusers agreed with that point.

 

2. My edit sums up your backward logic for explaining anything with realism.  Looks or not, realism has very little place in videogames.  You can't say something is just as bad because its just as unrealistic.  That's asinine.

 

Edit:

 

The only opinion that matters in the way of art, regardless of mine or anyone else's, is the Development Team.  Specifically the Art/Animation Development Team.  If they think it looks bad...then it looks bad.

 

Perhaps the way it looks to me isnt as important as its effectiveness in combat or mobility. There are lots of things in this game that dont appeal to me visually. Personally I think the glaive prime is ugly by far compared to the original. I still use it though because it is more effective. I think the way that dark colors apply to ash prime are TERRIBLE. But I still use him without a second thought.

 

Art can be perceived in many different ways by one person to the next. Therefore I choose to not focus on how something looks. Time is much better focused on how something functions.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

At the current time, I have only a few problems with new iteration of movement introduced in U17.

 

a) AimGlide™ and WallLatch™ should not decrease fov or sensitivity when used.

I'm a low sensitivity player, I haven't been given option to change any other sensitivity than a single global one (and I really would love something akin to system introduced in BF4 after CTE, seriously, you can configure a lot).

 

There are many bulky frames, there are even more cosmetics that make frames even bulkier and occupy even more space on screen, this coupled with very low fov and lowered sensitivity when aiming seriously hampers one's spatial awareness and makes AimGlide™ much less desirable to use in actual combat.

 

b) BulletJump™ vectors, it might be caused by it being a new systems and old habits dying hard, but like pretty much everyone else out there, I always aim slightly lower than parallel to the ground. Just a habit, and I cannot do much with it. However, newly introduced BulletJump™ coupled with this habit and maps that are mostly tight, enclosed hallways seriously hamper manoeuvrability.

 

 

tl;dr

No zoom-in while using WallLatch™ and BulletJump™

Tweaks to vector-inversion when utilizing BulletJump™

 

I'm pretty much fine with everything else, as long as you keep tweaking how tiles are built to accommodate for such mechanics.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Mofixil

[Lord_of_Lords]

Let me start off by saying that I play on a controller and I consistently have high accuracy (+90%) with my soma or paris prime.  This is relevant a little further down.

 

Complaint 1.

Wall running (now wall hopping) is even LESS useful.

 

You used to be able to do a short run for a burst of speed off of some very small objects (corpus boxes grineer ship supports) but now wall hopping is only useful for verticality, which isn't a prevalent part of this game (see the removal of Excal's super jump).  I'm not saying that I want the old wall running back but I would like to hear any argument how the new system is more useful.  Yes it's more 'free' but controller users can't use it to its fullest ability.

 

Complaint 2.

Also, by requiring multiple inputs to maintain a wall hop, you are SEVERELY gimping controller users.  They can't aim and wall hop at the same time.  When they can't aim while hopping, they can't shoot and they can't aim their bullet jump.

 

Lets move on to my bullet jump complaints.

 

Complaint 3

Bullet jump needs to have it's own keybinding.  Even with the default controller profile, pressing (X+O) is terrible and contorts your hand (if you have fingers as normal sized as mine).  I made a suggestion thread days before release (which you guys were obviously busy with so you couldn't read it) that outlined it pitfalls of bullet jump on controller.  I'd link it but it's in DERebecca's inbox so she'll have a chance at it eventually (hopefully...).

 

Complaint 4 -- I miss this the most

Why does bullet jump have to replace the slide+jump that did the aerial roll?  The roll was so useful (even without coptering) and it provided a ground version of the bullet jump speeds and gave a version of wall vault that didn't interrupt your aiming/charge shots.  I honestly don't know if bullet jump interrupts charge shots

 

EDIT Complaint (I forgot about this until I logged in right after the servers just came back up).

Bullet jump needs an option like the "Attacks align to camera" that I can turn off.  If it's going to replace the slide+jump (roll) animation then I need to be able to aim it the same.

 

Developer lecture to other developers.

DE, you are creating a multiplatform game.  You need to consider multiplatform (and non-default) control schemes.  Obviously you can't make every movement system work for every control scheme but you should at least consider one of the most common options (crouch on R3 which is so popular that CoD calls it Tactical and it's a button click to enable on CS:GO).  If you don't have anyone that exclusively plays on a controller (PS3/4 emulated or XBox360/One wired and wireless) then I highly suggest you find someone (or do what we did and have a friendly competition using only controllers -- the loser has to be the controller playtester but the odds are the winner will use one occasionally too).

Edited August 1, 2015 by Lord_of_Lords

[c.BOLTSON]

I like 70-80% of the new system. I really like the super aiming jumps and the double jump is comical but quite handy.
That being said I don't like the wall hopping, its ok but its clunky and just looks and feels really weird to do. I also miss coptering a lot.

Not only that, the Galatine with the tempo royale stance mod had a move - Mountain's Chisel (E while in the air) that would burst the character forwards in the direction you were aiming to hit. That movement burst is now gone and that move feels quite lacklustre now.

[Matovelhos]

For what i have experiance with parkour 2.0 is:

 

-Double jump its ok only the animation its wrong or too much basic for a ninja.

-Bullet jump its the best thing in parkour 2.0 its stylish and usefull.

-Roll its longer and slower making us roll over some small spaces in conclave maps and also in platforms in some tilesets bring back the old one.

-Aim Glide its wrong it should be only Glide why not the option to glide without zoom should be like holding space mid air and u glide then u can shoot use skills aim do wtv without the zoom from aiming.

-Wall latch nothing to say about it its ok

-Block doesnt make sense reducing damage if we defend the bullets with the sword why we take damage??? old block was better

-Zipline run amazing option sly couper feeling also very ninja.

-Alt fire is something that we must get used to also u can respeck ur keybind for what key u want so its ok also.

-Enemy jumping very very hard to land and when u land it its not satisfying i would like better if u remove it and make a air execution or something.

-Wall Hop worst thing ever soo much useless and a bad decision from DE, i cant wall run shoot enemies must always controll my aim its stupid, put the old wallrun remove the slingshot boost Please.

-Chopter removal i like the chopter removal but pls put the stealth kills stronger with small weapons coz right now big weapons are better in everything, multi hitting, big damage, big crits coz big damage, big executions coz big damage i hate going with ether daggers full modded and dont kill a level 50 grineer with 1 stealth finish