Parkour 2.0 (U17 Megathread Topic)

[Thaumatos]

Perhaps the way it looks to me isnt as important as its effectiveness in combat or mobility. There are lots of things in this game that dont appeal to me visually. 

^ Conceding my point, we come to the crux of the issue.

 

You're QQing over coptering being gone.  Which comes full circle to my original point:

 

Coptering is gone, adapt.  Like all of the other good players around.

[Darkshifter98]

I think what Parkour 2.0 could use is an even more advanced tutorial on the mechanics it brings forth, to show just how much the player can do when they chain all the mechanics together instead of just using them one at a time via the current tutorial.

[Nightfallen]

Well you have now slowed the game to such an extent you might as welll JUST be a third person shooter. The speed and intensity of Warframe with Parkour 1.0 was what kept me coming back it what made warframe unique among all the other TPS shoots out there. This new system is slow and clunky and remains almost useless unless you have to wall climb or such to contiue through the level. I feel no urgency with this system no excitement. Bullet jump the first time i did it I actually though it meant  "bullet time" jump it was so slow. The rest is meh bunny wall hopping zip line stuff even the jumping from enemies, its all MEH cause its ALL SO SLOW!

 I have lost my reason to keep playing this game as far as just being a shooter warframe is pretty average. I am no longer a space ninja I am a a mechnized laura croft stuck in molassas. Good luck DE butI don't think I will be playing much anymore.

[StonedMakak]

At the current time, I have only a few problems with new iteration of movement introduced in U17.

 

a) AimGlide™ and WallLatch™ should not decrease fov or sensitivity when used.

I'm a low sensitivity player, I haven't been given option to change any other sensitivity than a single global one (and I really would love something akin to system introduced in BF4 after CTE, seriously, you can configure a lot).

 

There are many bulky frames, there are even more cosmetics that make frames even bulkier and occupy even more space on screen, this coupled with very low fov and lowered sensitivity when aiming seriously hampers one's spatial awareness and makes AimGlide™ much less desirable to use in actual combat.

 

b) BulletJump™ vectors, it might be caused by it being a new systems and old habits dying hard, but like pretty much everyone else out there, I always aim slightly lower than parallel to the ground. Just a habit, and I cannot do much with it. However, newly introduced BulletJump™ coupled with this habit and maps that are mostly tight, enclosed hallways seriously hamper manoeuvrability.

 

 

tl;dr

No zoom-in while using WallLatch™ and BulletJump™

Tweaks to vector-inversion when utilizing BulletJump™

 

I'm pretty much fine with everything else, as long as you keep tweaking how tiles are built to accommodate for such mechanics.

 

I was about to write a lengthy post, but this sums it up nicely. Whether we want zoom should be an option in the menus at the very least.

 

Apart from that, I'm having a blast, thanks DE. 

Edited August 1, 2015 by tisdfogg

[Deidaku]

Love Parkour 2.0

 

Moving around is actually useful now.

Tired of seeing campers or copter freaks everywhere.

 

Bullet jump give a great sense of verticality.

 

 

Main gripes with the system

>directional Air melee is even more usless. I hope air combos appear sometime in the future  https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/499315-melee-30/#entry5600961

 

> wall hopping animation.  It's kind of to "hoppy". it should be more like a wall dash instead liek what you showed us in the first interations of parkpur 2.0

 

>Ziplines 

-->we need more of them , they need to be easier to see , or highlighter or something, 

--->Movement on ziplines should be faster  I want to grind on ziplines more it was so cool.

 

 

 

> Wall latching zoom  and aimglide zoom are way too strong 

And also , is backflipping on enemies gone?

[7grims]

Bullet jump is extremely strange.

 

It either gives us good propulsion as much as it sometimes doesn't.

High jumps:

When trying to reach high platforms and etc, sometimes it makes very average low jumps, idk why it doesn't always jump as high as it can jump.

Forward jumps:

In the same way, making forward bullet jumps is sometimes very annoying, when it decides it goes too much high instead of forward, making the frames get stuck above doors and in other map details.

[wilc0x]

Anyone else notice the new slide jump attack is no good?  It launches your frame upward in an anti-gravity sort of way, giving no distance and no speed.

Before it was a front flip that retained your momentum and obeyed gravity.  Now it makes every frame feel like a super floaty Zephyr.

 

Old attack combo was:

Sprint -> Slide -> Jump(front flip forward) -> Melee

Old movement combo was:
Sprint -> Slide -> Jump(front flip forward) -> Slide(in midair) -> Hit the Ground Sliding -> Sprint

Was a great little combo for jumping over things and retaining your momentum into an attack.  Now, the so-called "Bullet Jump" launches you upward and turns you into a floating balloon, robbing all your momentum and leaving you floating short.

Why did they get rid of regular slide jump?  I can see replacing directional melee with the new Bullet Jump to decouple it from specific melee weapons, but bullet jumping for every slide jump is crazy and I can honestly say I hate this change.

 

I don't mind the other changes in this new Parkour 2.0 update, though I don't really agree with all of them I could live with them.  This new slide jump is driving me crazy, however.  I have been moving this way in Warframe for years; it was at the core of the game's movement paradigm, and this is the single most significant change to the game in the whole Update 17 patch.

Why is nobody discussing this?!

[LythronaxPrime]

Bullet jump launches you in the direction you're looking, unless you're looking straight up or down, it won't be launching you straight up in the air.

[Gelkor]

You gotta aim it. It also builds momentum the more you do in a row.

[Arenzo4]

Because people have accepted the fact that we lost speed for more control, and some people hate it, others love it

[Faulcun]

^ Conceding my point, we come to the crux of the issue.

 

You're QQing over coptering being gone.  Which comes full circle to my original point:

 

Coptering is gone, adapt.  Like all of the other good players around.

 

No, Im not. You want it to be about coptering. Its not. Thats why I explained the difference in the obstacle course where you CANNOT use weapons (coptering) or powers, and the new system is hands down slower in every way unless you cheese the terrain. This is a great example because the current course represents the old style and similar terrain found in existing mission and tile sets still in the game.

 

When you add coptering in to all that as a combat move (forget about mobility), then the old system blows the new system straight out of the water. Go "aim-glide" in a vey hek trial and tell me how you feel about it. The problem is all these new mechanics are nothing but fluff and cheese to casual players to say "wwoooooooowwww, coooooooooool" and start doing silly things that will ultimately get them killed.

 

I have ZERO issue with coptering being removed. But if you are going to change up movement mechanics, then you need to match the effectiveness of the old system at the very least in combat situations. In that aspect, this is a failure. That is MY point.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

The problem is all these new mechanics are nothing but fluff and cheese to casual players to say "wwoooooooowwww, coooooooooool" and start doing silly things that will ultimately get them killed.

Well, when actually utilizing newly introduced mechanics and just dancing in the air, I've managed to dodge like 95% of fire from lv40 enemies for like a minute or two.

[Ailith]

My thoughts on Parkour/Movement 2.0: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/500422-some-small-movement-20-complaints/

 

I didn't realize there was a Megathread before posting my thread, sorry about that.

[Bouldershoulder]

Sprinting

 

By default, there is no limit to sprinting.  Stamina has been removed.  Why am I required to continuously hold down the shift key now?  And don't talk to me about toggle, it still requires a re-toggle after some maneuvers.  Make the old "sprint" control reversed into a "walk" control.  We should always be sprinting unless we need to sneak around.

 

The only things that should stop me from sprinting are aiming, crouching, and walking.

 

This will also help the 'feel' of stealth attacks.  Like you're doing more instead of doing less to get that precision strike on an unsuspecting target.

 

Stamina

 

The removal of Stamina is a good thing.  The removal of the bar was unnecessary.  There is now a duration for which you can glide and wall latch.  Let that be represented by the same bar that once made the oh-so-hated Stamina measurable.  Allow people to see just how long they have to perform those actions.

 

Jumping

 

Bullet Jump - "Crouch" + "Jump"; Default [Ctrl]+[spacebar]

Double Jump - "Jump", "Jump"; Default [spacebar], [spacebar]

 

Combine them.  They're needlessly separated and somewhat backward.  First jump would be a regular jump, second jump is a bullet jump based on reticle position.  Keep the switched slide jump as a bullet jump first so that players can gain momentum before maintaining it with a second jump.  Then just make regular jump that awesome 'flip' animation you've created.

 

With the new system, there's almost no reason to use a normal jump unless you're going to double jump or bullet jump.  And you only get two jumps anyway, so there isn't any point to it.  You'd either be replacing the normal jump with a bullet jump or the double jump with a bullet jump.

 

 

Gliding

 

Aim Glide - While in mid-air, "Aim"; Default While in mid-air, |Mouse2)

 

This is an excellent addition with one major flaw.  Just because I want to glide doesn't mean I want to zoom in on the topmost pixel of the enemy's head to examine what resolution I'm playing at.  In other words, separate them.

 

What better way to introduce the new "Walk" effect?  Hold [shift] and walk, or while in the air, hold [shift] and Glide.

 

Wall Navigation

 

Wall Hop - "Jump" Near wall; Default [spacebar] Near wall

Wall Latch - "Aim" On wall; Default [Mouse2] On wall

 

Recreate the wall run by using these mechanics and my proposed Aim Glide mechanics.  As you jump at a wall, holding "Shift" will "latch" you...but not stop your forward progress.  Instead, as you're holding [W], it will create a wall run situation.

 

The duration of your wall run will be directly dependent on how long you can wall latch.  After time has been spent, you will require another jump.

 

Allow players to stop mid-run and continue a normal latch.

 

New Controls

 

All in all, the new default controls would be as follows:

 

[spacebar] - Jump, Bullet Jump

[Ctrl] - Crouch, Slide, Air kick

[shift] - Walk, Glide (In Air), Wall Latch/Run

[Ctrl]+[spacebar] - Bullet Jump

|Mouse2) - Aim

 

I believe this would be more intuitive and would keep people from constantly having to crouch just to get a better version of jump.

 

Oh and Coptering...

 

I really like everything you said

Edited August 1, 2015 by Bouldershoulder

[Faulcun]

Well, when actually utilizing newly introduced mechanics and just dancing in the air, I've managed to dodge like 95% of fire from lv40 enemies for like a minute or two.

 

Dodging is one thing. So in that regard, yes, you can avoid damage moving through a level. However there has to be a time where you stop dodging and start attacking. If the answer to that is "aim-glide", then i refuse to do that all the time. You cant just "aim-glide" your way to victory all the time.

 

FYI level 40 enemies dont deal enough damage to be concerned with dodging, to be honest.

[Thaumatos]

I have ZERO issue with coptering being removed. But if you are going to change up movement mechanics, then you need to match the effectiveness of the old system at the very least in combat situations. In that aspect, this is a failure. That is MY point.

 

Translation:

 

I have ZERO issue with coptering being removed...but I take offense to coptering being removed.

 

 

C'mon man...just admit it...the old system was bugged and they've taken a massive stab at making a new one with regard to how they wanted people to be able to move in their game.  It isn't hard to understand.  Coptering and wall flinging made you move way too fast.

 

Get used to the proper speed.

[StonedMakak]

When you add coptering in to all that as a combat move (forget about mobility), then the old system blows the new system straight out of the water. Go "aim-glide" in a vey hek trial and tell me how you feel about it. The problem is all these new mechanics are nothing but fluff and cheese to casual players to say "wwoooooooowwww, coooooooooool" and start doing silly things that will ultimately get them killed.

 

 

Isn't it true for every feature, though? If I had ten plat every time I witnessed someone rofl-copter/wallfling/parkour 1.0 to their doom, I'd be richer that Steve. You make some valid points, but this is not one of them.

 

The way I see it, aim-glide is a distance extender, the Woo-factor is just fluff, like you say. Obviously, DE is trying here to create some unique signature moves in their parkour that are there by design, not accident. 

 

I will say that I have no idea why they did not preserve the wallfling, in form of charged jump, if only to easy the transition.  

Edited August 1, 2015 by tisdfogg

[Youre_Waifu]

It's not fast enough, it's kinda floaty, and all of the animations with the exception of bullet jump look very silly.

[Faulcun]

Translation:

 

I have ZERO issue with coptering being removed...but I take offense to coptering being removed.

 

 

C'mon man...just admit it...the old system was bugged and they've taken a massive stab at making a new one with regard to how they wanted people to be able to move in their game.  It isn't hard to understand.  Coptering and wall flinging made you move way too fast.

 

Get used to the proper speed.

 

And your translation would be wrong.

[Wakeoflove]

I love parkour 2.0, except for two things:

 

1.Bullet jump needs to be sprint+jump. (some how making this optional would be fine, different strokes for different folks)

 

2.Wall latch/aim glide should be infinite.

 

Point 1: In most video games all high velocity/high mobility is tied to the sprint button, it makes more sense for bullet jump to simply be how you jump with sprint active. If you want a normal jump, let off the gas for a sec. Switching between sprint and crouch for keeping the speed up is killing my pinky. Also, I'm pretty sure the only reason bullet jump is attached to crouch is because the old idea of using crouch in coptering got stuck in the mix somewhere, please oh please take that out entirely. I actually find the copter motion less hand issue inducing than the back and forth on my pinky between sprint and bullet jump. Coptering was a bit of a contortion, but my pinky stayed on shift and I used my thumb to hit ctrl as I pressed E for melee. This might perhaps be less of an issue if toggling sprint actually worked or if there was an option for sprint to always be on, but when I toggle sprint on, my frame randomly decides to stop sprinting without me going anywhere near a button that would turn it off.

 

Point 2: Whatever magical energy force we use to hold us to the wall as we bound along it is apparently limitless, so why prey tell does this energy putter out when we are taxing it far less by simply clinging to the wall? When we are bounding along, that cling force is taking a whole heap more stress as we push off against it, this makes no sense. Also, aim gliding is epic but it randomly lets me down and I don't like it. I know you want to put mods in the game for this new stuff, but I would appreciate if those mods were not tied to this new mystery form of stamina that lacks a UI representation and switch it to something that gives bonuses while aim gliding/latching. Could be defense bonus (on top of what we already get) could be offensive bonus, could make aim glide more crouching tiger hidden dragon than it already is with mobility bonus, could actually reduce that mobility to give you more control, but yeah, lets not keep stamina clinging to life by this one last thread.

[Cerebrum123]

I like parkour 2.0 overall. It could use some polishing though. IMO the hopping horizontally along walls doesn't look right. Up walls looks decent enough though. Take the direction we aim out of the equation though. I would like to be able to shoot while running. Maybe you could do it like W and towards the wall equals forward movement, changing only towards wall means vertical movement, and away from wall equal jump away from wall. A way to slide down walls might be a nice addition too. Not sure how to do that though. 

[Faulcun]

Isn't it true for every feature, though? If I had ten plat every time I witnessed someone rofl-copter/wallfling/parkour 1.0 to their doom, I'd be richer that Steve. You make some valid points, but this is not one of them.

 

The way I see it, aim-glide is a distance extender, the Woo-factor is just fluff, like you say. Obviously, DE is trying here to create some unique signature moves in their parkour that are there by design, not accident. 

 

I will say that I have no idea why they did not preserve the wallfling, in form of charged jump, if only to easy the transition.  

 

Yes, it is true for most features because DE wants 10 plat from every person who says  "wow cool". I agree that the attempt was made, however it has been proven enough times that their playerbase have a greater understanding of their own game than they do. I would suggest that Glen might be the most adept on their development team, and managed to identify the need for the speed of gameplay to remain, and i think they got close... but i dont think they got it right.

[Thaumatos]

And your translation would be wrong.

No matter how many contradictions you want to throw at me, people who have skill disagree.

 

It isn't that players can't move as fast, its about players being able to exploit the old system.  It can't be done now so people who did it constantly are upset.

 

Sorry.  I guess its time to move on to another game you can exploit.

[Cerebrum123]

Sprinting

 

By default, there is no limit to sprinting.  Stamina has been removed.  Why am I required to continuously hold down the shift key now?  And don't talk to me about toggle, it still requires a re-toggle after some maneuvers.  Make the old "sprint" control reversed into a "walk" control.  We should always be sprinting unless we need to sneak around.

 

The only things that should stop me from sprinting are aiming, crouching, and walking.

 

This will also help the 'feel' of stealth attacks.  Like you're doing more instead of doing less to get that precision strike on an unsuspecting target.

 

Stamina

 

The removal of Stamina is a good thing.  The removal of the bar was unnecessary.  There is now a duration for which you can glide and wall latch.  Let that be represented by the same bar that once made the oh-so-hated Stamina measurable.  Allow people to see just how long they have to perform those actions.

 

Jumping

 

Bullet Jump - "Crouch" + "Jump"; Default [Ctrl]+[spacebar]

Double Jump - "Jump", "Jump"; Default [spacebar], [spacebar]

 

Combine them.  They're needlessly separated and somewhat backward.  First jump would be a regular jump, second jump is a bullet jump based on reticle position.  Keep the switched slide jump as a bullet jump first so that players can gain momentum before maintaining it with a second jump.  Then just make regular jump that awesome 'flip' animation you've created.

 

With the new system, there's almost no reason to use a normal jump unless you're going to double jump or bullet jump.  And you only get two jumps anyway, so there isn't any point to it.  You'd either be replacing the normal jump with a bullet jump or the double jump with a bullet jump.

 

 

Gliding

 

Aim Glide - While in mid-air, "Aim"; Default While in mid-air, |Mouse2)

 

This is an excellent addition with one major flaw.  Just because I want to glide doesn't mean I want to zoom in on the topmost pixel of the enemy's head to examine what resolution I'm playing at.  In other words, separate them.

 

What better way to introduce the new "Walk" effect?  Hold [shift] and walk, or while in the air, hold [shift] and Glide.

 

Wall Navigation

 

Wall Hop - "Jump" Near wall; Default [spacebar] Near wall

Wall Latch - "Aim" On wall; Default [Mouse2] On wall

 

Recreate the wall run by using these mechanics and my proposed Aim Glide mechanics.  As you jump at a wall, holding "Shift" will "latch" you...but not stop your forward progress.  Instead, as you're holding [W], it will create a wall run situation.

 

The duration of your wall run will be directly dependent on how long you can wall latch.  After time has been spent, you will require another jump.

 

Allow players to stop mid-run and continue a normal latch.

 

New Controls

 

All in all, the new default controls would be as follows:

 

[spacebar] - Jump, Bullet Jump

[Ctrl] - Crouch, Slide, Air kick

[shift] - Walk, Glide (In Air), Wall Latch/Run

[Ctrl]+[spacebar] - Bullet Jump

|Mouse2) - Aim

 

I believe this would be more intuitive and would keep people from constantly having to crouch just to get a better version of jump.

 

Oh and Coptering...

 

No, please don't tie aim gliding to sprinting. It would be an absolute nightmare on controllers. Alternate fire perhaps(even that's a stretch with where it's at by default), but not sprint.

[Athanaric]

These changes are complete garbage and have broken the game completely. You've broken all of your promises regarding speed and control. I can do far more with the older system.

 

You can't even wall run and shoot simultaneously because you, for some reason, decided it would be wise to tie the the direction you wall run in to direction your cursor is pointing which means I drop the moment I aim my weapon. And when I can get it working the camera breaks and decides it wants to get a close up of my character's back.

 

Once again, you have decided that instead of giving the player power, you weakened them to the point it breaks immersion. I should NOT be trying to force a Tenno to move fluidly and rapidly. The Tenno are the master of movement aren't they? This isn't mastery. I can sprint faster than the Tenno now. That's pathetic.

 

The bullet jump is completely worthless. This isn't a replacement for the old system by any stretch of the imagination. As slow as your sprint speed is, you can still outrun bullet jump. Where's my wall flings? Where's my coptering? Didn't you promise that the new sytem would be built ENTIRELY around the speed those gave? You said in a livestream I wouldn't be caught on walls anymore, but now I can't reach the walls at all.