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After Update 17 Archwing Needs More Fine-Tuning Before Being Saddled With More Content.


Sasquatchias
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Now I love Archwing, even with all it's flaws - I like flying through space firing off missiles or using flares to dodge enemy missiles, I love the fact that every melee weapon is just this gigantic chunk of metal that feels like it'd slice through ships directly, etc...

 

However even I can admit that Archwing has far too many flaws, many concerning combat mechanics or general stuff, that just ruin the fun of the mode for longer periods of play for both the people who love and hate Archwing. 

 

And these flaws have been present ever since Archwing's inception.

 

Basically I feel that Archwing needs many issues addressed before we get more content on it, content that people will play only long enough to get what they want before never playing it again because they hate the current state of Archwing gameplay.

 

General Gameplay - 

 

1. Mini-map is entirely unsuited for Archwing - 

This is arguably one of the biggest flaws of Archwing, as right now the mini-map just does not work with Archwing - you've got instances where you're looking for an enemy in Exterminate and follow the mini-map icon only to have it glitch out and make the icon spazz out all the way on the other side of the room/area, when in actuality the enemy was somewhere just above you with the mini-map not telling you it was.

 

That issue is not just limited to enemy icons, it also happens with the objective icon too when concerning paths/doorways at different elevations than you.

 

2. Enemy Variety is incredibly limited - 

This is one big complaint, and that is how both the current factions (Grineer and Corpus) have little to no enemy variety in Archwing, especially the Corpus who only use @(*()$ Osprey/Raptor remodels and an enlarged crewmen using Opticors to fly around.

 

Literally the only unique enemy for the Corpus is the Gox, which is essentially a big mechanical box with weapons sticking off it.

 

Osprey/Raptor recolors - Attack Drone, Corvette, Frigate, Carrier.

 

 

Grineer enemy variety is a little better, but still suffers a bit from them re-using the models of existing units and changing nothing other than coloring and name to differentiate them model-wise, with exceptions being the Ogma and Shield Dargyn Variants (which add a little shield to the front of the enemy, but otherwise doesn't have any model changes outside of coloring.)

 

Recolor Enemies - 

 

(Dreg, Lancer Dreg, Temporal Dreg.)

(Dargyn, Hellion Dargyn), 

 

3.  All Archwing Weapon Parts are spread out over all the missions, and are overlapping eachother even now.

 

Basically near every Archwing mission is filled with at least one or two Archwing weapon parts, making it a huge pain in the &#! to even just get the regular version of a weapon since you'll constantly be getting the part you don't want, or you'll be getting nothing and have to run the mission again since you get one part per run or get nothing at all.

 

It would honestly not surprise me if on the new Underwater Tilesets we'd have to get the three or so components of Tyl Regor's Piston Fists for some unknown reason instead of being able to get the blueprint from the market and using resources to build it.

 

4. It is stupidly easy to get trapped in terrain - 

This is another major complaint, and that is how easy it is to get trapped in terrain.

Approaching one of the asteroids/wreckage pieces at high speed? Good for you you're now stuck in it.

Spamming melee key and flying around every which way? Now you're stuck in that bit of terrain behind the enemy.

Knocked back from colliding/knockback attack? Stuck in the terrain you bumped into.

 

Direct Combat Mechanics - 

 

1. Homing attacks can come from any direction, have very little visual/audio warning, and sometimes glitch out and becomes invisible - 

I basically said all I wanted about this in the above sentence, but one thing I'd like to point out to everyone - these homing attacks can also kill near any player in about two-three hits with how high atrociously high the damage is, and we get no warning whatsoever that the enemy all the way behind us hiding behind a platoon of his buddies decided to launch missiles at us while we're mowing down the army in front of us.

 

2. Melee Combat is too easy - 

Basically I feel the melee combat of Archwing needs to be pretty much worked on from the ground up - at the very least the auto-homing attacks need to go.

 

Archwing melee can be fun, but right now we have little direct control over it - instead we look vaguely in the direction of the enemy we want to hit, spam our melee button, and watch as our character just homes in directly on him with no other prompting. 

 

And then in the middle of a crowd of enemies we can do the exact same thing and continue homing in on any enemy even somewhat near our character, even without looking at them.

 

However the homing lock-on is not perfect, as enemies who are moving fast can effectively "dodge" you, which means you're character decided not to attack and instead goes flying forward off in whatever direction his/her attack was in instead.

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While i agree Archwing is in need of a lot of tweaks and changes, the melee combat is by far one of the best parts of Archwing with its auto targeting and dashing animation to cover distance, exactly the kind of movement we need added to normal melee combat in order to gain distance on the enemy.

 

Archwing needs the auto targeting exactly because of how free the movement is, different from ground melee.

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the worked a lot on archwing for up17

 

guys  yu have to stop thinking about sharkwing and arckwing as two diferent system

 

they are the same , only tile set change

Edited by Tsoe
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For minimap, I recommend a 2D slice of a 3D minimap, one that rotates as you turn your camera around so it orients where you are facing the camera at all times. This will help people get most of their bearings straight when heading to enemy/marker/objectives.

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1. Aye, that was something they said they were working on. Don't think it'll be coming in U17 but we'll get something in the future for sure.

 

2. More content, i.e. Uranus maps, is the PERFECT way to help fix that.

 

3. I agree here. But, again, I think this comes best with the addition of more content - while I don't think they should be spread out across more and more missions, I do think that if we can get more weapons and the like we'll be able to start putting them out of drops and into the Market and Special Alerts - like the Heat and Dark weapons.

 

Hell, I'd be okay with Archwing bosses dropping Archwing parts for Elytron and whatever more would be to come.

 

4. I... haven't had this problem... Have you tried NOT flying straight into the obsticals? It's like not walking into walls, should be a no-brainer. Sounds like this is user error to me.

 

---

 

1. While I would chalk this up to map awareness in some cases - like making sure a Bombard doesn't sneak up on you - the invisibility glitches and the like ARE a problem that should be addressed. But that's bug fixes, not really something that content should be paused for - certainly isn't the case with the Foundation game updates.

 

2. Ehhhhh, not really sure I can agree with this... I mean, on some levels I DO agree, but on others it feels like it would REALLY damage Arch melee, given the massive change in map and movement from regular gameplay... You may have a good point here, perhaps a little review for it IS in order...

Edited by Morec0
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the worked a lot on archwing for up17

 

guys  yu have to stop thinking about sharkwing and arckwing as two diferent system

 

they are the same , only tile set change

 

Did they say they made improvements to the Archwing system? 

 

From my understanding they only talked about the new tileset for it and the ability to go Archwing mid-mission (which could go and possibly be added to future/later missions involving space.)

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Don't complain until after you see the changes. For all you know, they could have fixed some of these issues.

 

 

the worked a lot on archwing for up17

 

guys  yu have to stop thinking about sharkwing and arckwing as two diferent system

 

they are the same , only tile set change

Well, there's a few differences, but those are largely probably just going to be things like "If Underwater, Change Momentum -5" or something to make it feel like you're actually in water. But yeah, overall, they're going to be identical systems.

 

 

Did they say they made improvements to the Archwing system? 

 

From my understanding they only talked about the new tileset for it and the ability to go Archwing mid-mission (which could go and possibly be added to future/later missions involving space.)

It's all one system, the underwater part just has some extra conditions attached to it that only activate upon being underwater. They said very early on that the addition of underwater would benefit the whole system because of they changes they were having to make to get it to work and work well.

Edited by Ceryk
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4. I... haven't had this problem... Have you tried NOT flying straight into the obsticals? It's like not walking into walls, should be a no-brainer. Sounds like this is user error to me.

 

This wasn't from me just ramming myself into terrain, I've had multiple instances where I've gotten stuck in terrain from doing high-speed stuff like melee combat or running along a trench, where my character face-plants into a wall (either because the lock-on failed me and sent me careening into the wall or I turned too late/too fast into a corner) and I got stuck right in the outer edges of some kind of terrain.

 

This mainly happens in the Asteroid Interception maps with areas with a lot of wreckage, and sometimes in the Corpus Sabotage where you can get stuck under an "invisible floor" in the "hallways" of the map if you go to fast and clip the edges of the archs.

Edited by Sasquatch180
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This wasn't from me just ramming myself into terrain, I've had multiple instances where I've gotten stuck in terrain from doing high-speed stuff like melee combat or running along a trench, where my character face-plants into a wall (either because the lock-on failed me and sent me careening into the wall or I turned too late/too fast into a corner) and I got stuck right in the outer edges of some kind of terrain.

 

This mainly happens in the Asteroid Interception maps with areas with a lot of wreckage, and sometimes in the Corpus Sabotage where you can get stuck under an "invisible floor" in the "hallways" of the map if you go to fast and clip the edges of the archs.

 

Well, I don't really know what to say. I haven't encountered this since the initial fixes toward this a while back.

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I think the new AW raid will be the real driving force for changes and tweaks. Some of the mods have just downright awful scaling, like System Reroute and Hyperion Thrusters...Lots of mods needed for little gain.

That was entirely intentional. They said they didn't want to make the same mistake they did with the rest of the game and give us Too Much, Too Soon because they saw problems with the difficulty of the game by giving us insanely powerful mods like Serration right off the bat. So I'm sure we'll get some special mods that are more powerful version, but probably going to be more difficult to get.

Edited by Ceryk
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That was entirely intentional. They said they didn't want to make the same mistake they did with the rest of the game and give us Too Much, Too Soon because they saw problems with the difficulty of the game by giving us insanely powerful mods like Serration right off the bat. So I'm sure we'll get some special mods that are more powerful version, but probably going to be more difficult to get.

 

I do hope so. I remember farming for Hyperion for hours and only those Locust Drone dropped them at that time. Only to my dismay, soon after they were later added to the Earth Interception missions, fml. New mods are great as per, but they shouldn't have to become that tedious to farm.

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The main reason i personally almost completely stopped playing archwing was how annoyed i was at getting oneshotted by homing attacks with no warning and no way to defend myself. Even using the flares would sometimes to absolutely nothing, instead i'd see three quick flashes of red and go into a bleedout, on a fully forma'ed and modded Odonata Prime with a Shield+Health Total of over 3500. Infuriating to say the least, downright hateable if you're trying to defend a point and you have no idea what to do against these instakill attacks.

 

And dont even get the started on the ****ing blast procs. I don't know which grineer is doing them, but they seem completely unavoidable and always leave me dead before i can make a flailing recovery.

 

Also personally one of my biggest grudges with Archwing is how the first Ability of Odonata is STILL broken and actually deletes my own projectiles if the enemy is outside of an arbitrary range, while my Imperator Vandal normally has pin-point hitscan with definitely no range limitation while the shield is not active.

 

Blocking my own shots to activate a shield that doesn't even save me from randomly getting onehitted, can you guess why almost noone plays the mode? XD

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General Gameplay

4) Yes getting trapped in terrain is terrible but there are a few ways to help yourself and DE.

You can type /unstuck in a chat tab. It will remove you from that spot and send a bug report to DE.

You can take a screenshot or clip of the location, if possible and post it in the Maps and Levels(bugs), section of the appropriate feedback section. PC, PS4 or XboxOne.

 

Combat Mechnics

1) Homing Attacks in Archwing are easier to avoid than any Bombard. There are several ways to avoid them.

Search Players Helping Players, topics for:

General Archwing Tactics, A How to Archwing Guide, with Videos.

Q: What level was youre Archwing and Arch Mods?  

 

2) I agree, ArchMelee combat is too easy. Archguns need an excellent sticky aim like Armored Core. This would pull focus away from melee but still allow melee player to shine.

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The main reason i personally almost completely stopped playing archwing was how annoyed i was at getting oneshotted by homing attacks with no warning and no way to defend myself. Even using the flares would sometimes to absolutely nothing, instead i'd see three quick flashes of red and go into a bleedout, on a fully forma'ed and modded Odonata Prime with a Shield+Health Total of over 3500. Infuriating to say the least, downright hateable if you're trying to defend a point and you have no idea what to do against these instakill attacks.

 

And dont even get the started on the ****ing blast procs. I don't know which grineer is doing them, but they seem completely unavoidable and always leave me dead before i can make a flailing recovery.

 

Also personally one of my biggest grudges with Archwing is how the first Ability of Odonata is STILL broken and actually deletes my own projectiles if the enemy is outside of an arbitrary range, while my Imperator Vandal normally has pin-point hitscan with definitely no range limitation while the shield is not active.

 

Blocking my own shots to activate a shield that doesn't even save me from randomly getting onehitted, can you guess why almost noone plays the mode? XD

Hellions with Blast procs still seeem unblanced both in Archwing and Normal Grinner foot missions.

-Awaiting the rage when Corruped Hellions enter the void.

Stamina removal will be a huge buff for Archwing and I'm hoping we have innate channeled reflection with Archmelee blocking.

-If these changes to stamina and blocking are being implemented into archwing....it should be more enjoyable. (From a melee standpoint)

Active Damage reduction while blocking should also help protect from Blast CC in archwing.

Some of the guns : Dual Decurions need larger projectile hit box...slight adjustment....but it is something the Miter also needs.....if they had Seer like projectile hitboxes they would be easier to hit targets. Seer seems to hit two or 3 times the small dot reticle. Miter and Dual-decurions seem to be exactly the small dot reticle.

The mods feel more balnced than non-archwing mods, but I would like to see some Corrupted or Nightmare mods at some point. (Even if they all are 20 capacity cost at max rank...)

I wish there was a Warframe with Itzal's ability set: Rush forward teleport not dependent on a target; stationary cloak or disc/bubble cloaking field, Enemy gather can be changed as Vortex, Dive Bomb Vortex, and Prolonged Parlaysis do just that, so possibly a new ability, and lastly, multi drone summon that have melee range attack radius. (No real Aoe Nuking, just useful utility attacks and passive DoT)

Looking forward to some new Arch/Shark gear to obtain and possibly new mods.

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