Excalibur skill 1 gives far too much for 25 energy

[AreWeHuman]

*SNIP*

Again, Making the ability harder to use does not nerf it. Once people get good/better at using it, it is overpowered again.

I don't get how this is difficult. I hit easily upwards of 70% of the things I go for with slashdash with my unitframe anyway. When I don't it's because they are around a corner a bit. Which is something I like to do out of utility and fun. And if I really tried I could still hit things taking cover just around a corner with my unitframe anyway.

The move has way too much potential for dealing huge damage to huge amounts of enemies, and reducing the width wouldn't slow me down much at all. I already am usually sitting at max energy most of the time. So guess what if I miss a few dudes because its not as wide? I either just turn around and kill them, because most of whatever group I was going for is probably dead, I just slashdash again, or I just move on.

If you feel like decreasing the width down the the unitframe would severly hinder your ability to use slashdash effectively, then congrats, you have some improving you can do.

Edited January 20, 2013 by AreWeHuman

[Mak_Gohae]

don't flatter yourself, the gamers with braincells are out there playing simulators. lets not get ahead of ourselves, this is an arcade hack and slash, play it accordingly.

I wasnt flattering myself at all and i dont know how the conclusion was reached that smart gamer play simulators but..... i have been playing Microsoft Flight Sumalor for a long time now.

I'm pretty sure the average gamer has enough experience to know how to control a loki style off the bat. It's much more about preference than intelligence.

To make a point: all of us here are average gamers.

Dont be so sure, there was a dude here calling for the Loki decoy to taunt enemies ...... which it does.

And i am not saying you need to be a genious, i was really joking when i said LEET i mean... come on, but the play style requires a bit more work compared to the others.

[Zakalwe]

Dont be so sure, there was a dude here calling for the Loki decoy to taunt enemies ...... which it does.

And i am not saying you need to be a genious, i was really joking when i said LEET i mean... come on, but the play style requires a bit more work compared to the others.

Yes, "a" guy. The rest of us here, the majority, are your average gamer.

And sure, I guess it does take a little more thinking to use Loki effecitvely if you're thinking about how often you can use your powers at maximum efficiency. You can spam Slash often, ofr instance, and energy refills are abundtant enough for it not ot matter and you're still getting benefit even if you use it on a single target (distance covered fast, enemy insta kill).

However, all it really is is knowing what the optimaal situation is for each skill and exploting that. Intelligent use of Exclaibur isn't far off intelligent use of Loki at all, it's more about knowing when to use it than the difficulty of the actual operation of the frame.

And for most of us, your average gamer, we're more than experienced enough for Loki to not be anywhere near difficult to use.

[Ronyn]

Again, Making the ability harder to use does not nerf it. Once people get good/better at using it, it is overpowered again.

If you feel like decreasing the width down the the unitframe would severly hinder your ability to use slashdash effectively, then congrats, you have some improving you can do.

Youre missing my point.

Its not just about difficulty to use its about damage potential.

My statent wasnt even about whether or not it would still be too strong or not..

its about a drop in damage potential.

1: A 10 meter wide, 100 meter long laser has more damage potential than a 2 meter wise,100 meter long laser.

Its not debatable its simple math of how many targets are possible to fit within the damage area.

2: If you can consistantly hit every enemies in the area with the thin version then perhaps it is too strong of an ability.

If droping the aoe doesnt bring it down ENOUGH to make it right that is ok.

But it has still been factually nerfed by shortening its width.

Simply put- It is a nerf. undeniably.

is it enough of one? that we can still discuss.

[warpkon]

Hey, Super jump is good when you want to show off while waiting at extraction.

^

[Zakalwe]

^

if you guys really believe this is all its good for, you haven't tried it enough. It's very useful to move around in many of the rooms, and is no way limited to the massive open areas.

I'll make a video at some point to demonstrate, but I'm a little amazed I'd have to...

[CrystalRibbon]

Just make it a 2nd or 3rd skill that consumes 50-75 energy to justify its usefulness x.x

[johncage]

"It's my favourite skill, and my least"

*facepalm*

[antimab-EGT-]

I assume most people in this thread complaining about it being too good haven't played on Pluto much.

Try it out first.

+1

nothing to add

btw: I dont have an Excalibur

Edited January 21, 2013 by antimab

[CrystalRibbon]

so are the other frames when it comes to pluto :3

but compare to pre- Pluto... :3

Edited January 21, 2013 by CrystalRibbon

[Zakalwe]

+1

nothing to add

btw: I dont have an Excalibur

I play Pluto a lot. It's still OP in Pluto, imo.

Regardless, as someone has already rightly said, game balance shouldn't be reserved to Pluto.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Zakalwe

[GzHertz]

Even rhinos charge is weaker compare to excalibur first skill

[kkphilip]

I agree that excalibur has a strong skill 1 comparing to other warframes but fair in comparing all 4 skills. I guess you guys complaining exca's skill 1 is overpowered are seldom to play with other frames with all 4 skills.

Even rhinos charge is weaker compare to excalibur first skill

So it should tune up other unbalaced weak frames and abilities rather than tune down a specific frame.

Edited January 21, 2013 by kkphilip

[CrystalRibbon]

But the problem is, as the title said, "Excaliburs skill 1 gives far too much just for 25 energy" am i right? x.x

[Ronyn]

I agree that excalibur has a strong skill 1 comparing to other warframes but fair in comparing all 4 skills. I guess you guys complaining exca's skill 1 is overpowered are seldom to play with other frames with all 4 skills.

It does see that way..

[Disthe]

...

Also, the power of the Slash Dash compensates for the useless Super Jump. I mean, honestly, when have you ever seen a Super Jump be applied in the heat of battle?

HKP89 had given very good reasons for that.

Skill is fixed dmg, the advantage of Slah Dash is obviously in the beginning but it fades as the difficultly increase.

We are now playing beta test not even encourter any " REAL BOSS" yet, you can imagine a boss is stronger than the foes you met on Pluto. Pluto is a valuable balance testing location for fully upgraded warframes.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Disthe

[Zakalwe]

I agree that excalibur has a strong skill 1 comparing to other warframes but fair in comparing all 4 skills. I guess you guys complaining exca's skill 1 is overpowered are seldom to play with other frames with all 4 skills.

You've missed the point. Please read the title of the thread again.

Pluto is a valuable balance testing location for fully upgraded warframes.

It's still OP in Pluto.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Zakalwe

[AreWeHuman]

Youre missing my point.

Its not just about difficulty to use its about damage potential.

My statent wasnt even about whether or not it would still be too strong or not..

its about a drop in damage potential.

1: A 10 meter wide, 100 meter long laser has more damage potential than a 2 meter wise,100 meter long laser.

Its not debatable its simple math of how many targets are possible to fit within the damage area.

They actually have exactly the same damage potential. It is entirely possible, with your example to hit an entire level worth of enemies.

(Your example is actually pretty funny as both 10m and 2m (it might be pretty close to 2m now) are larger width than slashdash even is, which is funny because nerfing the width to 1/5th as in your example would actually nerf it down to less than unitframe, which would frankly look $&*&*#(%&)

There is nothing stopping you from fitting the same amount of enemies in the 2x100 as the 10x100. Not to mention you aren't accounting for the enemy unitframe. It is not hard to make your unitframe touch their unitframe. The unitframe width of whatever enemy you are trying to hit is effectively increasing your AoE, and the smaller your AoE width is, the more drastic that effect becomes.

The hallways in this game are not that wide. If slashdashes width was reduced to just unitframe It would still be easy to hit every single enemy in a hallway when taking their unitframes into account. Enemies are not points on a plane, they are geometric objects with area.

And again, Lets say with reduced AoE slashdash I miss a few targets I normally would've hit. Guess what? I turn around and slashdash again (or more likely, I don't. I probably just killed 7 of 10 guys anyway). I have now spent 50 (not a big deal.) energy to potentially hit more enemies and deal more damage (not to mention being invincible) than I could've with radial jav. for 1/2 the energy cost.

Slashdash does too much damage for 25 energy. If you nerf the width, the abilities potential for damage IS NOT NERFED.

2: If you can consistantly hit every enemies in the area with the thin version then perhaps it is too strong of an ability.

If droping the aoe doesnt bring it down ENOUGH to make it right that is ok.

But it has still been factually nerfed by shortening its width.

Yes I can and do. More importantly, I think most players who have put in maybe half the time I have/have actually played video games also can.

Simply put- It is a nerf. undeniably.

is it enough of one? that we can still discuss.

I'm not saying it isn't a nerf. It just isn't an effective one (and when it comes to damage potential, it isn't one at all). It does not lower the abilities potential to deal insane amounts of damage at all. You, for whatever reason, think it would. And feel the need to repeat yourself on this point pretty excessively, but it actually does not. The raw amount of damage the move does to an area is what needs to be changed. This could come in addition to the width being reduced (if you really have such a hard-on for the change), which i have already said. I guess I should REPEAT MYSELF EVERY SINGLE POST and then carry on as if you still aren't getting it (sounds oddly familiar).

And I'm done with this line of discussion. You may as well be trolling at this point and I'm simply not willing to read another one of your posts where you say exactly the same thing again and act as if I don't get the incredibly simple concept you are presenting, despite my ability to discuss it, in detail, since my first reply.

+1

nothing to add

btw: I dont have an Excalibur

I'm astounded by the value of your opinion.

Edited January 21, 2013 by AreWeHuman

[Kokurai]

Hey, Super jump is good when you want to show off while waiting at extraction.

this. tho i usually spam blind lol

[aheed]

I think Excalibur's skill one is in a good place. The rest of the mags abilites need upgrades to not be so useless.

[Ronyn]

Ok. Stop pretending that I am repeting myself to some large degree.

We are both reiterating our points in different words hoping to get through to the other person.

Its worth noting I came into this after youd been over it with someone else so Ive only stated my case twice before this current post.

I hardly think twice is excessive, worthy of being heckled or called a troll.

They actually have exactly the same damage potential.

There is nothing stopping you from fitting the same amount of enemies in the 2x100 as the 10x100.

I'm not saying it isn't a nerf. It just isn't an effective one

If you nerf the width, the abilities potential for damage IS NOT NERFED.

Lets not get caught up in the numbers of my example it was just a generalized mathematic illistration not measured to be directly overlayed onto the game.

I define damage potential as the total amount of hitpoints you can possibly take away.

If you have an ability that does a flat amount of damage to every enemy it hits, the more enemies you can hit the higher the damage you can put out overall. The wider area you can hit the more enemies you can fit inside of it.

So the greater the width the higher the damage potential as defined above.

If the rooms and enemies in warframe dont create a situation where that potential could ever be reached or they present no need for it...

then it isnt an effective enough nerf. And I dont have a problem with that point of view.

You have to understand that I am not saying the ability isnt too strong or that lowering the width fixes it.