Shotgun Buffs Pre-U17

[DrBorris]

I actually agree with the OP.

 

I don't want another generic gun, I actually would have left the huge reload and the projectile speed as they were. Why? Because character. You can go on and on about how it is "not good" if it does not have boltor level projectile speed, but maybe that is because Boltor fits your playstyle better. The only reason I ever took out Supra was to have some fun making a wave of bullets. Despite sucking in most content, I had a quack ton of fun with it. 

 

Use the hilariously low projectile speed as justification for hilariously high DPS. Even if they gave Supra the highest DPS in game it would still be "balanced" because of the low projectile speed. 

 

And you know what? I am completely okay with what I just wrote being completely faulty because it is MY opinion about a weapon. It is the exact same for you all, don't run around saying "Supra sucks without faster projectiles" because that is not a hard fact, it is a personal preference. Due to this, I a going to just try to be content with whatever DE does, because no matter what they do (as far as Supra's projectile speed goes) some people will be happy and some people will not. 

Edited July 26, 2015 by DrBorris

[RealPandemonium]

Well how are we supposed to find that out

When people ask for the primary characteristic of the weapon to be removed instead of adjusting it in a way that preserves its character.  That's a dead giveaway.

Edited July 26, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[taiiat]

i'm not that thrilled that Supra will be made more homogonized, closer to the same thing as other Weapons in it's Class.

solving usefulness issues by also removing unique facets of a Weapon doesn't really end up solving much of anything.

because, if a Weapon peforms okay, but is bland and the same thing as the next Weapon, people are going to just use the one that's best for that purpose, which ever one Kills faster.

if a Weapon isn't unique, it's just in a DPS race with it's competition.

Kunai and Hikou are this exact problem. Hikou is the same thing as Kunai. the same thing. the only difference is it burns more Ammunition per second, and therefore has a higher DPS.

this means one Weapons is completely ignored because the other is basically identical.

Weapons must be unique from each other in order to be used. otherwise, they still won't be used, because there's another choice with way better stats for the same purpose, being better than it at every possible task.

and for Supra, the 'issues' it has with Accuracy, Projectile Speed, and Recoiling Forces is what's unique about Supra.

'fix' all of those, and you have 'just another Machine gun'.

By that logic we should name the Jat Kittag "Fragor reskin but with more damage" or rename the soma "Grakata with gold but with more dps"

Jat Kittag is just generally a direct upgrade to Fragor.

Jat Kittag doesn't have quite the Crit Chance, but it's way faster to start with anyways.

so yes, Jat Kittag is literally just a direct upgrade to Fragor. Fragor is viable, but Jat Kittag is just better.

Jat Kittag even comes with 2 Polarities, while Fragor comes with none.

Grakata is often referred to as the "poor man's Soma". and that's pretty much accurate. Soma Series blows Grakata Series out of the water for Damage. Grakata Series has great Status, and that's certainly quite nice.

i like Grakata Series. but Soma Series does objectively deal more Damage.

so in the majority of situations, yes, Soma Series is a direct upgrade to Grakata Series. Prisma Grakata is quite viable despite, but Soma Series is still superior Damage, more Damage per Ammunition to boot.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

You sure about that? 

If the lato was buffed to 9001 damage a shot, would you use it?

yes

 

 

Honestly this was all the supra needed

-Bigger clip

-A little more damage

-Less or even no reload, maybe an overheat function

 

Edited OP

Lato buff, yes please

Weapon this good looking deserves some affection(read forma investement)

My damage reference testing post with some comparisons: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/494459-supra-is-not-the-only-old-weapon-that-needed-a-buff/page-2#entry5551110

Supra Builds used for above test:

[DelialFallen]

Adjusting the Supra as DE has set out to do seems to be on par with adjusting things to be in line and balanced with other weapons of its category.

 

I am no fan of balance exactly because uniqueness must be compromised in favor of broader homogeneity.

[LikeABawsh]

I've never actually seen this many players against a buff for arguably the worst weapon in the game.

What planet is this?

[(PSN)Mahkulaan]

I've never actually seen this many players against a buff for arguably the worst weapon in the game.

What planet is this?

 

I don't know, but apparently those of us who want a better Supra have only leveled the weapon for mastery fodder and then threw it into the trash. /s

 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I've never actually seen this many players against a buff for arguably the worst weapon in the game.

What planet is this?

Only really against the FLAT projectile speed buff....

I stand by having the projectile speed increase with spool/rate-of-fire

That way it can retain being and not just a higher tier-clone.

Technically if done that way DPS fanatics can still have faster projectile speed with Fire-rate mods boosting DPS

Others that want the retained floating wall of death can burst fire like what is done currently and have slower moving projectiles.

I'm all for Magazine and Reserve ammo buffs on the 'pew pew hose'....8-formas in on the Supra in prep for Primed Elemental mods some time in the future....

As for worst weapon in the game....eh only if you count the horrible disappointment considering the perquisites. Vastly outperforms several of my 6-7Forma Shotguns and Pistols (Lato/Kohmak/Kunai/etc...)

I don't know, but apparently those of us who want a better Supra have only leveled the weapon for mastery fodder and then threw it into the trash. /s

Yay another multi-forma Supra fan

Edited July 26, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[(PSN)Mahkulaan]

@(PS4)MrNishi

 

I even bought the Shock camo skin :^)

 

[LikeABawsh]

Only really against the FLAT projectile speed buff....

I stand by having the projectile speed increase with spool/rate-of-fire

That way it can retain being and not just a higher tier-clone.

Technically if done that way DPS fanatics can still have faster projectile speed with Fire-rate mods boosting DPS

Others that want the retained floating wall of death can burst fire like what is done currently and have slower moving projectiles.

I'm all for Magazine and Reserve ammo buffs on the 'pew pew hose'....8-formas in on the Supra in prep for Primed Elemental mods some time in the future....

As for worst weapon in the game....eh only if you count the horrible disappointment considering the perquisites. Vastly outperforms several of my 6-7Forma Shotguns and Pistols (Lato/Kohmak/Kunai/etc...)

It isn't a clone of anything though. Even if the projectile speed buff goes through, there are no other spool up laser firing high puncture damage based weapons in the game. This weapon is extremely unique WITHOUT the low projectile speed. Its just a quality of life change that will make leading targets easier.

 

Also why are you comparing the Supra to the starter pistol and other bad weapons? Shotguns are so bad that they're getting an entirely new rework, so that comparison is moot. Saying that the Supra outdoes the Lato isn't really saying much, either, considering its the the first sidearm you get in the game (if you choose it) so obviously the Supra does more damage than it. The Lato is supposed to be low tier because its what you start off with, but the Supra is bad for no goddamn reason and doesn't stack up to any of the other mid tier rifle primaries in the game. It's pitiful, really.

[-N7-Leonhart]

It isn't a clone of anything though. Even if the projectile speed buff goes through, there are no other spool up laser firing high puncture damage based weapons in the game. This weapon is extremely unique WITHOUT the low projectile speed. Its just a quality of life change that will make leading targets easier.

 

Also why are you comparing the Supra to the starter pistol and other bad weapons? Shotguns are so bad that they're getting an entirely new rework, so that comparison is moot. Saying that the Supra outdoes the Lato isn't really saying much, either, considering its the the first sidearm you get in the game (if you choose it) so obviously the Supra does more damage than it. The Lato is supposed to be low tier because its what you start off with, but the Supra is bad for no goddamn reason and doesn't stack up to any of the other mid tier rifle primaries in the game. It's pitiful, really.

 

This.

 

While they are at it, why not nerf it to keep it's current personality of weak weapon, right? Because a projectile speed increase makes it too strong, therefore destroying it's personality, so it should not be changed, right?

 

Naive. The projectile speed increase is a great buff to Supra. Mabye like that a Heavy gunner won't fire half of the mag of a Gorgon in me, before my projectiles even reach it....

[Acidulant]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/495356-devstream-57-overview/

Supra Buffs

• Ammo: 1080 rounds

• Clip size: 180 rounds

• Reload: 3 seconds

• Damage is increased by unspecified amount

• Projectile speed increased : almost doubled, not quite as fast as Boltor Prime

-Yes to the ammo increase

-Yes to the clip size increase

-yes to the reload speed increase

-yes to the damage increase

-Yes to the-wait...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

NO TO THE PROJECTILE SPEED INCREASE!!!!! NONONONONONON!!!!!!!!!!!

Hear me out for a second.

Its all fine and dandy that the supra is FINALLY getting its buff after more than 2 years or so.

However the the horrible accuracy, crazy recoil, fast fire rate, and slow projectile speed is what i feel made the supra so unique and fun to use. You hold down the trigger and create a "death zone" with your colored jelly beans. If you wanted real DPS, you had to fight the recoil and keep your projectiles on target. If projectile speed is buffed, it will become yet another generic and boring weapon to toss into the trash can.

Hmm looks like you guys took this a little too seriously:

If projectile speed is buffed, you might as well rename the supra to "tetra with more dps."

Here's what I meant to say:

The supra will lose its character if projectile speed is increased, EVEN THOUGH it can be considered a buff.

You might as well increase accuracy, lower recoil, and make it hitscan.

If you need help seeing what i am talking about, equip your supra on mirage and go to kiste ceres.

TLDR: Scrap the projectile speed increase. keep everything else.

No

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I agree Mr.''Name I'm too disgusted to type'', the slow travel time makes the Supra feel pretty unique.

 

I agree. The slow travel time did indeed make the supra feel pretty unique.

 

Uniquely terrible, that is. Seriously, when I use supra I get out killed by everyone simply because by the time my shots reach the enemy, they're already dead. I've had enemies actually *outrun* supra shots.

 

This buff is the best thing to happen to supra since its release in U8.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

@(PS4)MrNishi

 

I even bought the Shock camo skin :^)

 

 

Purchased

Full Shock camo pack

It isn't a clone of anything though. Even if the projectile speed buff goes through, there are no other spool up laser firing high puncture damage based weapons in the game. This weapon is extremely unique WITHOUT the low projectile speed. Its just a quality of life change that will make leading targets easier.

 

Also why are you comparing the Supra to the starter pistol and other bad weapons? Shotguns are so bad that they're getting an entirely new rework, so that comparison is moot. Saying that the Supra outdoes the Lato isn't really saying much, either, considering its the the first sidearm you get in the game (if you choose it) so obviously the Supra does more damage than it. The Lato is supposed to be low tier because its what you start off with, but the Supra is bad for no goddamn reason and doesn't stack up to any of the other mid tier rifle primaries in the game. It's pitiful, really.

Fair enough that no other Gun is a laser variant of Gorgon/Supra.

Supra is on Par against a level 95 Corrupted Heavy Gunner Eximus...as Prisma Gorgon, Dera Vandal, Brakk, Opticor, Daikyu, Braton Prime, Latron Wraith, Paris Prime, Glaxion, Rakta Ballistica, Spectra

....when measuing time to kill with no Corrosive Projection (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/496367-comparing-some-unliked-weapons-timeammo-to-kill-high-armored-targets/#entry5551733)

Maybe it does not match-up with slow projectiles in actual combat, but in DPS comparison against a High armored target the damage and rate-of fire were not holding the weapon back. Weapon had terrible economy and handling....sounds like both the economy and handling are being made better....to the point it totally power creeps the Tetra..but [DE] scott did say there was a lot of prerequisites for the weapon: it should be powerful....

As for the Shotgun buff..raw damage won't help in the comparison against High level armor scaling....perhaps status chance per pellet buff so thay Shotties can decimate at all armor levels.

[Volume]

I would prefer more damage and crit and status before changing projectile speed

[420degreequicksopeswag]

I've never actually seen this many players against a buff for arguably the worst weapon in the game.

What planet is this?

I am against turning the supra into a green boltor prime/<insert generic weapon used by everyone here>.

 

Everyone has become so desensitized by the boltor prime/soma prime/etc. that as soon as they see any weapon that isn't as good as it, they need to make it more like the boltor prime.

 

With the path the community is headed on, you might as well beg for an accuracy buff, recoil decrease, oh, and a change to hitscan.

[420degreequicksopeswag]

Hmm i think i might have found something yall might be interested in

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Terminal_Velocity

[(PSN)Mahkulaan]

Hmm i think i might have found something yall might be interested in

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Terminal_Velocity

Why would we have to sacrifice a mod slot that would be put to far better use with a damage mod in favour of a mod that slightly alleviates one of the worst aspects of a weapon due to YOUR unwillingness of change?

 

Any more terrible suggestions?

Edited July 27, 2015 by (PS4)Mahkulaan

[bubbabenali]

I am against turning the supra into a green boltor prime/<insert generic weapon used by everyone here>.

 

Everyone has become so desensitized by the boltor prime/soma prime/etc. that as soon as they see any weapon that isn't as good as it, they need to make it more like the boltor prime.

 

With the path the community is headed on, you might as well beg for an accuracy buff, recoil decrease, oh, and a change to hitscan.

What now Boltor Prime or hitscan?

And the slow traveltime of the Supra is not a feature one should cherish. If you want a low damage high field of effect weapon that eats ammo as nothing go with the Ignis and stop spout your powercreep nonsense.

[-N7-Leonhart]

What now Boltor Prime or hitscan?

And the slow traveltime of the Supra is not a feature one should cherish. If you want a low damage high field of effect weapon that eats ammo as nothing go with the Ignis and stop spout your powercreep nonsense.

 

The faster the better. I hate the slowness of Boltor p, a very small movement from the enemy will cause me to miss its head entirely. However, Supra how it is now is 2x worse than even that. So even if 2x faster is not perfect, it's still a hell of a lot better.

[WereFowl]

What now Boltor Prime or hitscan?

And the slow traveltime of the Supra is not a feature one should cherish. If you want a low damage high field of effect weapon that eats ammo as nothing go with the Ignis and stop spout your powercreep nonsense.

Hey don't insult the ignis by comparing it to the current supra!

 

Ignis is a great weapon for inflicting status and it's not actually that ammo ineffecient. Also it doesn't take an entire rendition of wagners ring cylcle to reload. (it does have pathetic DPS though...but I still love it as a fun weapon)

Edited July 27, 2015 by WereFowl