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[DE]Danielle

Shotgun Buffs (U17 Megathread Topic)

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I don't even think any moderator or DE staff is reading any feedback, nothing we have said in here has had any effect on the game, and no moderator has ever commented here, prove me wrong DE.

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Nevermind reading feedback, they don't even play their own game. It's painfully obvious when you see some of the issues and problems with the game, that no one important in Digital Extremes actually plays the game they're marketing.

 

Say what you will about the Epic devs, they play their own games. Gears of War multiplayer is balanced and fun. If something goes wrong, it gets fixed quickly.

 

Meanwhile, the Vipers still have a laughably pathetic ammunition pool that makes them completely worthless unless you're willing to prop them up with a backpack of ammunition restores. Meanwhile, the Strun Wraith is dead, and the Boar Prime, the only Prime shotgun in the game, is objectively the single worst shotgun in the game.

 

It's not an oversight, what they did to the Strun Wraith and the Boar Prime. It was not a glitch or a mistake. Scott actually thinks his math is solid, that he did a good job and that this is okay. The Strun should be at least upper-mid tier, and the Boar Prime should be one of the best shotguns in the game, comparable to the Hek and the Tigris.

 

But they aren't. Because DE just plays with numbers for ten minutes on a weapon's stat card, arbitrarily increases and decreases some values, and then calls it a day after testing it against level 10 Grineer.

 

Which wouldn't be a problem, if any of these updates were actually playtested or if any of them played their own game. But they don't, so it is.

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Why Scott? Why did you nerf my Boar Prime? I thought you said buff? Please hook us Boar Prime fans up and give it a real buff. You buffed both the Hek and Tigris into a destroyers along with giving the Drakgoon and Sobek really effective buffs. Why did you kill the Strun Wraith?

I was looking forward to the shotgun buffs in U17 for console but not so much now.

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Yeah now that I got the update the boar prime is still nice and the others are great. I just wanted that kohm to get a damage buff and the phage could have used a lil buff as well at least to the firerate.

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Question tinnos can you still get the Paris prime

Of all the places you could ask this question you chose the Shotgun Buff thread? Seriously?

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soooo.. are they actually going to look back at boar prime, strun wraith etc?

Since Strun Wraith already pops up 2 times as reward and Boar Prime is at vault, I doubt that they will bother changing these two as both weapons could be considered almost legacy gear now.

 

Now, I wonder why people get upset by this and didn't think in ask about the reasons why the specific changes for shotguns were made, I mean explaining in detail each change, I can't remember of any official thread about this, I would be pleased with a link to the thread if there's one.

 

Also, I wonder why DE prefer to tweak the actual system, that include an weird status chance formula, instead of making a more intrusive rework by revamping the many shotgun's mechanics.
 
Like some of those:
Showing the actual damage of a pellet instead of summing they into a big number, strun wraith would list 25x10 physical damage instead of 250.
 
Making multishot work the same as any other weapon in game, instead of chance per pellet it should be per shell to proc an extra shot (this one would make a lot of people mad, sorry for that).
 
A flat value of status chance per pellet instead of a formula for the entire shell that take in pellet amount and show the player the chance of only 1 pellet to actual proc in the shot and turning it into a confuse mess that make most shotguns bad at status and Strun W. and Boar P. gods on this, I mean by these making status chance to work on the same fashion as critical hit chance.
 
Making the shot spreading the actual delimiter of damage instead of fallof mechanic, as that mechanic is a weird and arbitrary workaround as many players know (shotguns IRL don't lose their power after a couple meters by magic).

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Well I guess they are done with shotguns, I wouldn't get my hopes up that they come back and give the nerfs to the strun wraith and boar prime a 2. balance pass.

That is, if it was not a intended heavy nerf to status shoguns, that keeps them in the game, without having to change the kind of all or nothing status mechanics on shotguns, while at the same time it makes them unreliable at the only thing they where good at(high level proc showers). Then again multi shot gets most likely the same treatment, you can still use it but it will be pointless on 90% of the weapons because of the ammo/magazine/reload stats on the weapons.

Took me a little over a hour to solo 40 waves T3D today with my Hek and Frost without even using a single ammo restore. I can't do this with bolter/soma prime and god forbid I use a status shotgun, that would have cost me like 4 times the amount of ammo restores compared to bolter/soma(read you are out of ammo after the 1. terminal of 3 in a solo T4MD with the boar prime on frost, and this is a 2 minute long defence each -.-).

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Here is my thorough feedback:

OVERALL CHANGES:

* Very mixed feelings. Some of them got good changes, some got WAY too strong, while some got nerfed.

* Generally, the damage-increases are WAY over the top. Hek, in particular, is absolutely absurd right now. That wasn't a necessary change.

* Ragdoll is fun!

* Falloff reduction seems good now. Not too weak, not too strong (well, if it weren't for the overbuffed basevalues)

Let's go to specific weapons (my suggestions are in bold):

Strun / Strun Wraith / MK-1 Strun

* Damage is really odd. Wraith is 250, Regular is 300 and MK-1 is 180. Staying at 250 seems good for Wraith, nerf it to 220 for Regular and keep it at 180 for MK-1.

* I like the idea behind the new reloadmechanic (sequential reloading), but I hate its restrictions and numbers:

*** It should be able to reload while sprinting

*** The reload should be interruptable by shooting with the weapon

*** Reloadspeed per shell should be 0,35 sec for MK-1 / Regular, while Wraith could be 0,25 sec (That would be, for base mag refills: 2,1 secs and 2,0 secs respectively)

Tigris

* 1050 damage... is just absurd (that's stronger than the OPTICOR...). 400 would be fine.

* Would be more interesting it if had really high critchance (say, 50% critchance or even more?) so we actually have a critshotgun.

* Innate punchthrough (even if just 0,5 meters PT) would really help its shortcomings against crowds.

* Likewise, reducing the reloadspeed to about 1 sec would help it more than the insane damagebuff.

Hek

* 575 damage is even MORE absurd on this weapon, due to its augment (that mod alone gives a 3x booster...). Nerf the augment to 100% multishot (down from 200%) and then lower Hek to 300 damage and I think the damage would be more balanced.

* Reloadspeed down to 1,75 sec or so, and it would be great.

Drakgoon

* The damage here is ALSO over the top. 900 charge-damage? 400 chargedamage seems more appropriate.

* Crit, but even more so, status, could also need a boost. Numbers unspecified.

Boar / Boar Prime

* 176 and 184 damage respectively seems like a reasonable boost, along with the bigger mag and slightly slower RoF on both.

* Reloadnerfs were COMPLETELY unnecessary though. 2,3 secs was good enough. 2,8 and 3,0 are too long.

* Lowered status on Boar Prime was completely unnecessary though. Back to 40% status please?

Sobek

* A bit crazy damageboost here. 350 damage? 200 damage would've been fine.

* Could've been increased to 3,5 RoF or so, to make sure it is at least slightly faster than the Strun (being automatic and all)

* Reloadspeed of 4 sec is way too slow. 2,6 sec or so seems better.

Phage and Kohm, these were already great, so I didn't see the need for any big changes (damagewise) in these weapons. (Maybe slightly better ammo-economy on Kohm would've been nice though)

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@(PS4)flymario

Funny that you quote me, I have further changes in my mind (and in my weapons thread :P), like these:

 

Someone pointed out that the Boar Prime shows like it has 15 shells in the drum. Well, why then not make it a multiple of 15, so its visual design makes sense? Thus, my reproposed stats would be:

 

Boar = 25 magsize, reload 2,7

Boar Prime = 30 magsize, also reload 2,7, status up to 40% again

 

That way, in regards to the fullauto shotguns, you have the Boars being more about widespread group chaos, and Sobek is a slightly more "disciplined" (less RoF but higher accuracy) shotgun.

 

As for the Sequential reload on the Struns, most issues are already fixed there, except for the horrendous speed. If the regular and Wraith versions (but maybe not MK-1) reloaded 2 shells per sequence (staying with a 0.5 second reload per sequence), the total reload time would be 1,5 and 2 seconds respectively. That sounds like a good compromise imo: You can reload partially, but at the cost that the TOTAL reloadspeed (for Wraith) is slightly nerfed from what it used to be (it used to be 1,5 seconds). Fair tradeoff, imo.

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