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[DE]Danielle

Shotgun Buffs (U17 Megathread Topic)

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Have an actual crit line of shotguns. Strun Wraith was that, once. Maybe the Struns could be the crit shotties again? Also potentially a bit more crit chance on Phage.

 

That would be great. Especially considering there are currently no crit-viable shotguns.

 

Soo yeah... sidearm shotguns? :P Still think Detron could do with either an extra 5% base status chance (bringing it up to 15), or say, increasing its base damage from 105 to 120.

 

While we're at it, Kohmak could use a bit of a larger magazine.

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To all that. I'm sorry bore P got a status nerf. I formated  mine for punch throuth so the damage buff and falloff reduction are where its at. Props. Would have liked a small critical buff to compensate for -10 %tho. Like a 5%+ would be ruckus. But it seems like an enhancement to a punchthru build.  They should make Accelerated blast puncture compatible with the phage. N FINALLY my  most used and favorite Tenno weapon becomes the Flavor. Tigris  now has the juice. ragdoll halved bodies confirmed ?/  

It  only has TWO shots bud! Haha.

The DPS is waaaay lower when compared to a shottie with 4+ shots in its magazine.

Besides true bad asses always use a double barrel. Hence, 'bad ! damage'!

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Tried Hek and Tigris so far. I love the ragdolling effect on them; it gives them that feeling of power (especially paired with Tigris' slash based meat grinder).

 

The damage seems good too.

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i would prefer if the boar p have

 

- magazine size reverted back to 15 from 20

- status chance improved back to 40

- reload speed buff to 2.1 - 2.3

- Fire rate back to original, not a nerf

 

Or buff the crit chance or dmg. I have not seen a fully viable crit shotgun in this game yet.

 

The boar p to me is not really supposed to be a dmg boomstick but a flak auto-cannon. I use 2 status mods, tainted shell and shotgun spazz just for the status utility. The old boar p can continuously shower an enemy in status, be in stagger, corrosive, radiation, blast or the like. These new stats killed this concept not only in time to kill but also status procs dealt.

 

In an effort to curb the ammo economy, you increased the mag, decreased the fire rate and increased the reload time. Guess what? All can be mitigated with an ammo mutation mod or just good fire control at 15 shots per mag.

 

This is a change the boar p does not need. Please revise your stats of this weapon.

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That would be great. Especially considering there are currently no crit-viable shotguns.

 

Soo yeah... sidearm shotguns? :P Still think Detron could do with either an extra 5% base status chance (bringing it up to 15), or say, increasing its base damage from 105 to 120.

 

While we're at it, Kohmak could use a bit of a larger magazine.

Ah, dead Cthulhu dreaming, I forgot about my own favorites, the secondary shotguns! Was in a bit of a hurry.

 

Kohmak magsize? Yes. Buff the Detrons? Absolutely yes, give some of my absolute favorite weapons another day in the limelight. I haven't gotten Brakk so I can't say anything about that. Ak/Broncos are just awful; the Primes are solid, but honestly could use a fair bit of work. I just don't know what those weapons especially need, other than the Kohmak (which would already be amazing if it didn't spend all its time reloading) and the Detron (I would honestly like it to have tighter spread and almost no recoil on both variants; I don't think it would need much - or any - stat buffing if it could actually place its entire blast on target at mid-range, making it the shotgun suited for longer range engagements and fitting with most energy weapons that aren't Supra).

 

Now, the Pyrana... honestly, I like the Pyrana, it's monstrous with enough mods and forma. But I don't know, it does seem to be kind of missing something. Probably partly related to how utterly, utterly awful it is without its rank 30 potatoed build. That is, after all, the issue with crit weapons, but more than that, it needs a mag buff even more than the Kohmak does. An auto shotgun with that magazine... and the recoil of the Kraken? It's deadly, but it's also absolutely insane.

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Wanna know why it got buffed so much?

 

Because it has 2 shots in the magazine. So you're going to spend a lot of time reloading instead of doing damage regardless. The goal is to make those two shots count. So no, it's not unfair. Other shotguns have more continuous damage options, therefore having reduced damage compared to the Tigris that does bursts of damage followed by periods of 0 damage.

The Tigris needed some love.

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I really like the new reload style of the strun wraith. loading shell by shell, and can fire before full reload if necessary is super cool, and practical. ***My only issue is that i cant continue to reload while running. Any other weapon can reload during a sprint(i tested a couple random primary and secondaries to be sure that its only shotguns). I often run out of shells because i forget that i stopped reloading when i sprint into the next room. it makes my Nova sad.

 

***Edit: This function has been fixed. I can now reload and run! yay!

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I really like the new reload style of the strun wraith. loading shell by shell, and can fire before full reload if necessary is super cool, and practical. My only issue is that i cant continue to reload while running. Any other weapon can reload during a sprint(i tested a couple random primary and secondaries to be sure that its only shotguns). I often run out of shells because i forget that i stopped reloading when i sprint into the next room. it makes my Nova sad.

I can confirm the strun/strun wraith can not reload while running.

 

It's really flow breaking, and aside from that issue the new reload type is actually pretty fun to use.

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I really like the new reload style of the strun wraith. loading shell by shell, and can fire before full reload if necessary is super cool, and practical.

 

Yes, it's great! To reload just 3 shells now takes the same amount of time as reloading the whole clip (8 shells) did before! Such an epic buff! DE how about you "buff" Mesa next?

 

 

^^

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Were the shotgun-pistols buffed too? I don't see any difference in my Bronco Prime.

No, secondary shotguns were not buffed.

 

 

Yes, it's great! To reload just 3 shells now takes the same amount of time as reloading the whole clip (8 shells) did before! Such an epic buff! DE how about you "buff" Mesa next?

 

 

^^

True buff as it is!

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It is a complete disappointment.

 

 

I had only 3 shotguns (Phage, Boar Prime and Strun Wraith, all polarized many times) and they're all of it a great failure now.

 

The Phage have been broken since like 7 months maybe.

 

And now the Boar Prime and Strun Wraith are both awfully slow to reload. It's meaningless to have many munitions in the magazine if you have to reload any times.

 

To me, DEVs, it is a failure. Shotguns are dead, not like i was really using them anyway (They're strong yeah... But not fun to play with anymore).

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Why not buff the Phage too?

 

More ammo, clip size, status chance perhaps? More damage would be nice too ofc.

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did no1 see my comment? boar prime was too overpowered thats why it was nerfed. in fact, boar prime needed that nerf in order to be in line with the other shottys. also, in my eyes boar prime is still great, its just not as overpowered as it was...

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After a lot of testing, I think the shotgun buff missed the mark a lot.

 

Shotguns used at 50+ meters now outdo rifles in performance and feel a lot more like heavy sniper rifles then close range shotguns now. Status shotguns, that had her place compared to other weapons before the changes are now a lot less viable at high levels when it comes to corrosive/magnetic procs(her niche) then before the changes. The 4.1s reload doesn't make any sense if you use strun wraith at high levels as status weapon(I was running away from stuff to reload after 50 minutes t2S solo, it is that bad), well at least I can now outperform any kind of rifle with it at long range(also a bad change what doesn't make any sense for a shotgun, even less a status shotgun). The boar prime is even worse, the status nerf, rof nerf and reload speed nerf made the boar prime just plain bad(the 5 rounds, falloff change and minimal higher damage are useless on it and it is a plain nerf). It also doesn't work on my Ember any more with 30% status, so in the end I just retired the poor thing. 

 

It is actually funny that a buff that makes shotguns outperform rifles for damage at range also made a rifle outperform status shotguns at the same time. I do expect a falloff nerf for shotguns again once enough people figured out how broken they are now, however the sad thing is I do also expect that we will not have working status shotguns in the game again any time soon, if ever.

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Shotguns absolutely melt in close range now. As they should. But IMO they bleed too much into rifle territory because even 50% falloff doesn't do enough to taper the insane damage some shotguns do (Hek).

Tigris / Hek / Drakgoon all dominate CQC, as they should... But they're also doing keeping too much of their effectiveness past their falloff range. My proposal? Past 40 meters (just an example) Increase spread, get rid of certain mod benefits (punch through), etc.

Shotties should absolutely wreck close range / close-mid range with very little contest. Like they are right now. But if you're going to change them (as I feel is inevitable) change their effectiveness outside their dominant zone.

This is coming from someone who has pretty much rocked the Hek since Nyx release days. I love shotguns, but I'm afraid of what will become of them as they are extremely effective. So here are my thoughts.

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Yeah, god forbid they actually make shotguns reasonable at anything other than short range.

 

If you wanna get down to the real issues with shotguns, just look to mods like multishot which allow some shotguns to have absolutely asinine amounts of pellets (Strun with 22, Kohm with 24-36, Hek with 29-30). It's no surprise spread doesn't work well as a balancing tool when you can just fill that spread with an absolute net of pellets.

 

The weapon classes in this game have always had identity issues. It's not hard for them to bleed into each other when they all do the same exact thing to begin with. The launchers are pretty much the only weapon class that truly stands out in this game. Everything else is just a slight variant of a rifle, which inevitably makes the rifles the best at the job. Shotguns have always just felt like rifles with crap usability, so now that the usability is great people may start flocking to them (which, to be honest, I still rarely see them in public games).

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Shotguns absolutely melt in close range now. As they should. But IMO they bleed too much into rifle territory because even 50% falloff doesn't do enough to taper the insane damage some shotguns do (Hek).

Tigris / Hek / Drakgoon all dominate CQC, as they should... But they're also doing keeping too much of their effectiveness past their falloff range. My proposal? Past 40 meters (just an example) Increase spread, get rid of certain mod benefits (punch through), etc.

Shotties should absolutely wreck close range / close-mid range with very little contest. Like they are right now. But if you're going to change them (as I feel is inevitable) change their effectiveness outside their dominant zone.

This is coming from someone who has pretty much rocked the Hek since Nyx release days. I love shotguns, but I'm afraid of what will become of them as they are extremely effective. So here are my thoughts.

 

No, simply because Boltor and Soma Prime shred everything at close range as well as medium and long range. So why should Shotguns only be useful at short range? Because then we would be back at where we were before the buff, with shotguns (apart from status shutguns exploiting the 100% bug) being redundant.

 

Because the thing is that in-game you don't always have the choice at what range you engage enemies. You enter a door and what room you find beyond it is usually up to random chance.

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No, simply because Boltor and Soma Prime shred everything at close range as well as medium and long range. So why should Shotguns only be useful at short range? Because then we would be back at where we were before the buff, with shotguns (apart from status shutguns exploiting the 100% bug) being redundant.

 

Because the thing is that in-game you don't always have the choice at what range you engage enemies. You enter a door and what room you find beyond it is usually up to random chance.

Not entirely true. We wouldn't be back where we were before the patch because shotguns were completely outclassed at ALL ranges, including short range pre patch. DE's decision to keep falloff is indicative of their will to make shotguns supremely effective in that range, and subpar outside of that range. Not useless, just not optimal.

You don't have a choice at what range you engage enemies. But you have a choice with your arsenal. You can't expect to go sword alone and then complain that it's difficult to take on high level, spread out ballistae. If every weapon was truly meant to be equally effective at every range, and DE wanted it to be that way, then falloff wouldn't exist. What is the point of it being there if it's not even functioning as it's intended? To limit a shotgun's long range effectiveness?

This all being said, I'm hugely in favor of keeping shotguns where they are now. I'm only bringing these points up and praying for people to tear them apart so we can get all of these arguments out of the way before the huge wave of nerf pleas come in. So please, tear apart these arguments and give DE good reasons to keep shotties the way they are.

PS if it's not clear, I'm mainly talking about the Hek.

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Shotguns are usable at range now, but not effective. And there are 3 reasons for that:

 

- Spread

- 50% damage falloff

- unable to land headstots

 

At range they are still usable now yet their DPS can not remotely compare with Soma P and similar weapons. Which by the way can still double their effective DPS by landing headstots which shotguns at long range have no hope of doing. It's balanced now. I mean it not like Boltor or Soma P suffer any penalty at close range to balance their long range capabilities.

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