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[DE]Danielle

Shotgun Buffs (U17 Megathread Topic)

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Shotguns are usable at range now, but not effective. And there are 3 reasons for that:

 

- Spread

- 50% damage falloff

- unable to land headstots

 

At range they are still usable now yet their DPS can not remotely compare with Soma P and similar weapons. Which by the way can still double their effective DPS by landing headstots which shotguns at long range have no hope of doing. It's balanced now. I mean it not like Boltor or Soma P suffer any penalty at close range to balance their long range capabilities.

 

Okay, I like that logic. I also feel that this is how shotguns should be balanced at a range. But the fact is for some shotguns, spread isn't actually a huge issue. Headshots are doable from close-midrange. That, in tandem with how much damage shotguns have now, I fear that we'll get slammed with the nerf bat. Here are some pictures.

 

My Hek:

19653628823_410d90a2d0_o.jpg

 

My Hek's spread at 50m

20248352726_30ec799f7f_o.jpg

20274579085_10319fb9e4_o.jpg

19651938684_62bd485a65_o.jpg

 

My Hek's spread at 70m

19651937024_6358956723_o.jpg

19651935394_846f2c4773_o.jpg

20266275522_1e50ee88ab_o.jpg

 

The spread isn't that bad. And if you look at the stats on the Hek, even if you slice it in half and then take some more off for spread, it still hits VERY hard. Maybe not as hard as the Soma P, but should we really be using that as our benchmark?

 

According to this: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/498821-full-list-of-shotgun-change/

The Hek now hits 3x harder. Even if post-patch Hek is shooting with falloff, it will still hit harder than pre-patch Hek without falloff. That's quite substantial. What I do have to say in the defense of some of our shotties though-- is that it has poor sustained DPS due to low mag cap.

 

Here's my main worry-- We had a weapon like this before. The Synoid Gammacor was notorious for having insanely high DPS, even though it had a severe drop off at 25m. Even though the Boltor P existed, DE still went ahead and nerfed the Synoid even though it was constrained to 25m only. Shotguns now hit harder and further than the Synoid used to. What does that mean for us?

 

Anyways, this is decent thought flow-- keep it coming!

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Boar p fell off long b4 Tigris  ever did it was gimpy to begin with 

did no1 see my comment? boar prime was too overpowered thats why it was nerfed. in fact, boar prime needed that nerf in order to be in line with the other shottys. also, in my eyes boar prime is still great, its just not as overpowered as it was...

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Boar p fell off long b4 Tigris  ever did it was gimpy to begin with 

 

well from wut ive seen it is a CQC monster and will demolish anything in that range. its not a hek, its not for anything medium/long range. so if u want anything for those ranges get a hek. or from my experience, a sobek (my favorite shotty)

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well from wut ive seen it is a CQC monster and will demolish anything in that range. its not a hek, its not for anything medium/long range.

You've seen badly. It's simply uselss comparing to toher shotguns now. Aswell as StrunWraith and Kohm.

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Before U17:

Kohm used to have longer effective range, it started damage falloff at 25m, its minimum damage still dealt 47.5% of base damage beyond 40m.

 

After U17:

Now its effective range (the range without falloff) is REDUCED by 10m.

 

Kohm has been changed for a lot of time, with compensations.

But this update is hyped for shotgun buff, and Kohm is not "tweaked", it's direct downgrade without any other compensation for no reason.

To be honest Kohm is my main primary, now this is very depressing.

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Before U17:

Kohm used to have longer effective range, it started damage falloff at 25m, its minimum damage still dealt 47.5% of base damage beyond 40m.

 

After U17:

Now its effective range (the range without falloff) is REDUCED by 5~10m.

 

Kohm has been changed for a lot of time, with compensations.

But this update is hyped for shotgun buff, and Kohm is not "tweaked", it's direct downgrade without any other compensation for no reason.

To be honest Kohm is my main primary, now this is very depressing.

Kohm is my favorite weapon and i dont see why it had to get nerfed.Buffing it was not really necesarry but why nerf it either?I knew something is wrong with it thank you for the information.

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Wait, wait, wait. People are saying the Tigris needs a nerf? Did anyone stop to think that the damn thing spends almost 2 seconds reloading every two shots? It needs that damn damage, it needs to one or two shot people. Otherwise it goes back to being the trash gun it was before.

 

Gawd dammit.

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Kohm is my favorite weapon and i dont see why it had to get nerfed.Buffing it was not really necesarry but why nerf it either?I knew something is wrong with it thank you for the information.

 

I have a theory, they blow it unintentionally... since last kohm change is very long time ago.

It was not op, and no more performance issue.

But look at tons of unfixed bugs that lasts for ages... and keep being ignored forever.

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I feel like shotguns suffer in potential because instead of buffing damage like the Soma or tonklr, there is a lot of effort solely on fixing the reload speed or fixing the charge time.

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I wouldn't  mind the Strun Wraith's reload mechanic if it had the DMG to justify it. Also you need to be able to fire cancel it. 

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So when can we expect Shotgun Buff Pass 2, where Kohm, Phage, and Boar Prime get boosts, Struns get proper damage boosts, and Strun Wraith properly does more damage than the regular Strun again?

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How would people rank shotguns now? Kohm used to be the king of the heap, right? Where does it fall now?

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The Hek is way too overpowered. Its stats are fine, but scattered justice is not. I don't think anyone at DE really conceptualized what 200% multishot looks like. 200% multishot is an instant 70% damage increase, along with a huge status increase. Justice is also extremely useful, arguably the most useful syndicate explosion in the game.

 

The Strun Wraith, now that it's been properly fixed, falls in the middle as a fluid, mid-tier shotgun. I'm disappointed that it's still at the bottom of the food chain in terms of high level viability, but still pretty interesting to use. Yes, the 8-shell 250 damage/shell Strun Wraith has the same 4.1 second reload as the 20-shell 350 damage/shell Sobek, but since reload can be interrupted, reloading can be contained exclusively to downtime. As far as the damage goes, it just doesn't scale up very well since impact is subpar and pales in comparison to other shotguns.

 

The Sobek's new damage feels pretty smooth; light for a shotgun, but great for an automatic, large magazine shotgun. The only downside is that the fire rate is pretty abysmal. One would expect to be able to unleash a large payload on a heavy unit, but even with shotgun spazz the shells seem so staggered. Furthermore, that 4 second reload is a huge buzzkill in the action. You might run in trying to kill a bunch of enemies, and then immediately have to high tail it out and hide behind cover to reload. I'd say a 3 second reload would be more appropriate.

 

My final point is that all of these shotguns suffer from "optimal fire rate" problems. Spam clicking results in a fire rate much lower than the actual fire rate of the weapon. To achieve the real fire rate, one has to meticulously time clicks on when the next shell is supposed to come out. This is quite annoying because players panic when want to dish out a large payload in a high pressure situation causing the shotgun to underperform.

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 200% multishot is an instant 70% damage increase, along with a huge status increase.

 

90% Elemental mods give more damage and status is not that useful because of the way status chance got distributed across the pellets and the comparatively low fire rates of shotguns.

 

The only good status shotguns are those that can reach 100% (which the Hek can not no matter what you do) because there is a bug/game design oversight with shotguns that gives each single pellet a 100% status chance when you reach 100% status with a shotgun.

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So when can we expect Shotgun Buff Pass 2, where Kohm, Phage, and Boar Prime get boosts, Struns get proper damage boosts, and Strun Wraith properly does more damage than the regular Strun again?

 

What?

Kohm is nerfed, its falloff start at shorter range (effective range is reduced by 10m) without any compensation.

Phage is not buffed.

Boar Prime got a little damage buff with huge sacrifice.

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What?

Kohm is nerfed, its falloff start at shorter range (effective range is reduced by 10m) without any compensation.

Phage is not buffed.

Boar Prime got a little damage buff with huge sacrifice.

Exactly my point. Time for a second pass to buff those shotguns too.

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Why did you decrease the status chance of Boar P so much.

Status was THE thing of the Boar Prime, not the actual damage.

So revert the status at least so high that you can reach 100 percent again!

I want my viral fire Boar back. :(

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Exactly my point. Time for a second pass to buff those shotguns too.

 

Sorry for misunderstood.

Yes, they must take a look at these seriously.

Shotgun buff WAS the most excited think of U17 for me.

 

Now melee is crippled even worse.

And they hammered my favorite guns.

Back to spam 4? This is not what I have been waiting for...

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You've seen badly. It's simply uselss comparing to toher shotguns now. Aswell as StrunWraith and Kohm.

 

1. its still viable

2. it was a well deserved nerf

3. u mad cuz it was nerfed

4. every once op gun is s​​​​till viable but every1 says they suck

5. ​every1 who gets comfy with a gun use it only 1 way and, by logic, if it gets nerfed where they hav 2 use it another way say it sucks now when its still viable

6. its for CQC not sniping people across the map​

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Its not low clip size, its not long reloads its not fall off. its ......

Corrupted Ancients in the void, it seems like the damage reduction aura applies to all of its pellets, on other weapons the damage reduction only applies to one (sometimes) more powerful shot therefore it doesnt affect damage as much as shotguns. This was probably real before the shotgun buff but ive never used shotguns before now so i wanted to point this out. This gives shotgun users a different playstyle in the void because you have to prioritize killing the ancients otherwise you do peanut damage. 

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Pretty sure it's a percentage reduction, which means it doesn't matter whether you're hitting them with 50 pellets that each do 10 damage or one pellet that does 500 damage. 

 

50*10*0.1=50

500*0.1=50

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I actually like the Strun Wraith's new reload mechanic however it just doesn't do enough DMG per shot to validate it. The answer is simple. More raw damage.

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2ptqa8l.jpg

Damage wise from least to greatest between Boar Prime, Strun Wraith and Regular Strun (Not MK1)

Boar Prime< Strun Wraith < Strun

Something isn't right here. If this is truely the case then that mean the boar prime (which took 10 orokin cells to build) and the strun wraith (a prize for an event and tactical alert) aren't so great...at least not anymore. Anyone would be better off getting a regular strun. But pretty sure strun wraith was more devastating damage wise compared to the strun (regular).

Edit: And also, Something like the boar prime which takes 10 orokin cells to build shouldn't be worse than a shotgun you can buy with credits. Its horrible to see a prime weapon you gotta earn from completing multiple void mission and build with 10 orokin cells be overshadowed by a Non prime weapon that can be purchased with credits completely built.

Strun Wraith damage is second to regular Strun as far back as the re-release of it in Den of Kubrow man. Or I should say in the pvp patch that followed like a week after. Even on PS4 Strun is still currently 168 base and S.Wraith is 150. We're at version 16.6 or something since we are now in cert for the Excalibur rework. Reported it in the bugs but whatever; these people don't seem like they want to pay attention anymore. It's like the Strun Wraith specifically pissed them off.

EDIT: which doesn't surprise me. So many changes they do in general, not just this update are plain stupid. Id even include some actual new content as well as "balance changes" to existing content they put out seems like some twisted, halfbaked session of how can we troll half the players while still putting out something the other half would want?

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