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[DE]Danielle

Shotgun Buffs (U17 Megathread Topic)

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* Strun Wraith. No no no no.  Huge fail. You killed the Strun Wraith. It is dead.. The defining feature of the Wraith was the fact that it had a reasonable magazine size with a good reload speed. It was quick and flexible and fluid. Now it's slow, painful, and clumsy!  Now it has the handling of a pump action shotgun and modern "shoot one, load one" tactical doctrine, but it doesn't have the actual damage to back up such a play style so it is totally outclassed by everything else. It still has strong status performance, but status is irrelevant when the enemy is dead, which other shotguns doing 2 to 5 times more damage with better handling will accomplish faster. No.  Either restore it previous fast-reloading magazine and leave it near the bottom of the barrel for damage, or, increase its damage to the level of the Drakgoon and Hek because its practical rate of fire with current mechanics is about 1 shot per second.

 

This sums up how I feel about the Strun Wraith right now. I cannot fathom who thought that this, of all weapons, needed to be made into a pump action. RoF mods are far less effective than before, and RoF of the weapon in general is just abysmal; the full reload is painful, and the pump action/reload feels janky. Thankfully, it retained its status chance.

 

The Boar Prime would have honestly been better off in its original state, with no changes to damage falloff even. The new Boar Prime not only got a random status nerf, but its RoF makes the gun feel bad. The old RoF felt better, and made it a better status weapon.

 

Please revert the changes of these two guns. If that means they receive lesser buffs than the rest of the pack, so be it. The Hek is the king of shotguns right now, with the Tigris in contention with the most insane damage buff I have ever seen in my gaming career. Why use anything else?

 

Edit: It seems that the "pump action" is gone, but it still loads shells individually.

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Kohm is direct downgrade from U17 whit reduced effective range (-10m).

Boar P and Strun wraith got little damage buff with huge sacrifice.

 

I really want Kohm, Boar P and Strun wraith can be reverted.

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I like the concept of the new reload mechanic, but why would you put it on a weapon that would nerf a weapon's original reload speed? Wouldn't it have been better to have been used on weapons like Tigris and Hek which have low mag sizes and would actually help their reload speed? Also, you can't even reload while you sprint while using the new reload!

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yeah they got a little over zealous with the buffs to shotguns  a deduction of 25% in dps should be just right

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What!? -10m range on KohM!? Come on it's the only viable in late-game shotgun and know it received a debuff after a buff update (how ironic it sounds).

 

No wonder I have to put my Kohm up next to Hek's butt in 5m to actually deal some damage with it now....

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What!? -10m range on KohM!? Come on it's the only viable in late-game shotgun and know it received a debuff after a buff update (how ironic it sounds).

 

No wonder I have to put my Kohm up next to Hek's butt in 5m to actually deal some damage with it now....

 

It used to start falloff at 25m.

Now it is 15m.

There is no shotgun that starts falloff longer than 15 now. (Boar P seems at 10m)

Except Phage and Drakgoon which has no falloff.

I wonder if it's unintentional nerf to Kohm... could be a bug or some mistake while tweaking.

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status 30 % (used to be 40%) ,magazine20, fire rate 4.67 ,reload 2.8(Was 2.3), and a 67 dmg increase.....Yea u guys NERFED the boar prime not buffed it...

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Is it me or does Drakgoon is broken? Just did T3D, and my 5 forma Drakgoon was killing lvl 35 Bombards in one charged hit, while at optimal range. But when the same level Bombard was 20-25 meters away, I had to use 5-6 shots to kill him. Shouldn't falloff be max 50%? And if by any chance I was doing just right amount of damage to achieve one shot kill, I still should be able to kill him with two shots, not six.

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AFAIK the charged shot on the Drakgoon has no falloff, so something else is up. I've heard reports from various people of unusually low damage numbers randomly popping up, so maybe you've hit that bug.

 

edit: unusually, not usually. Someday I'll make a post without immediately editing it :P

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Is it me or does Drakgoon is broken? Just did T3D, and my 5 forma Drakgoon was killing lvl 35 Bombards in one charged hit, while at optimal range. But when the same level Bombard was 20-25 meters away, I had to use 5-6 shots to kill him. Shouldn't falloff be max 50%? And if by any chance I was doing just right amount of damage to achieve one shot kill, I still should be able to kill him with two shots, not six.

 

I tested in the simulacrum and did not see any damage falloff whatsoever with the Drakgoon.  Same damage on target regardless of range. Variation in time to kill from one target to the next was random based on how many projectiles hit and if any of them were crits or head shots (or especially both).

 

Can you share your weapon build, and whether you were using any frame powers that might have affected the enemy's survivability?

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jesus... those numbers are insane...

They might look huge, but at 30 waves the eximus will start needing around three clips. My viral proc braton actually takes them down faster once you get to lvl60 enemies.

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I tested in the simulacrum and did not see any damage falloff whatsoever with the Drakgoon.  Same damage on target regardless of range. Variation in time to kill from one target to the next was random based on how many projectiles hit and if any of them were crits or head shots (or especially both).

 

Can you share your weapon build, and whether you were using any frame powers that might have affected the enemy's survivability?

http://goo.gl/PpMOcE

I didn't used any powers, and there was no CP on any of my teammates.

I know corrosive isn't good on Bombards, but as I said, in optimal range I was oneshoting them, and 20-25 meters away, I was getting ~250dmg per pellet.

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http://goo.gl/PpMOcE

I didn't used any powers, and there was no CP on any of my teammates.

I know corrosive isn't good on Bombards, but as I said, in optimal range I was oneshoting them, and 20-25 meters away, I was getting ~250dmg per pellet.

 

I don't have a zillion forma on my Drak, but the only thing that's weird in your build is Fatal Acceleration.  I tried putting that on and I'm still just not seeing any variation in damage here.  If there's an issue then I don't think it's with the weapon in particular. Sorry to be Captian Obvious here but....you're sure there were no ancient healers buffing the guy that was taking a bunch of shots, right?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR_awWMLp0s

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I put the Tigris a little bit out today to relevel it after changing polarity on it and gave the defence on Uranus another try for Firewalker, it was used with 4 damage mods(primed point blank, hells chamber, blaze, scattering inferno) and 2 utility mods(seeking fury and Tactical pump).

 

LS6UNHX.jpg

 

Overall I am not really satisfied, the 1.2s reload I archived should be baseline, even with 70k damage single shot on my Ember, against groups of smaller units it doesn't matter much and the reload speed becomes to much of a bottleneck against multiple targets, a long time before the damage becomes a problem. End level was 75 at what point you did need multiple reloads per heavy unit what makes it a lot slower then the Hek, because it got nearly the same damage, twice the rounds and nearly the same reload speed.  At 1.2s relaod it is feasable, at 1s with seeking fury and 1.2s baseline it would be a lot more practical and fun to use in normal missions. Even with a slightly reduced damage, while I think it is not needed on the Tigris given how strong the Hek is, a quicker reload would go a long way to make the weapon more a well balanced shotgun then a insane burst dps single target weapon that performs rather poorly in a game where you have like 10-20 targets at once nearly all the time.

 

I also would like a update on the boar prime and strun wraith. The changes had some time, nearly everybody doesn't like the changes on this 2 shotguns and I just see them falling off in usefullness(at the 40 minute mark with the boar prime, 50 minute mark with strun wraith) quicker then the dps shotguns after the changes in 1h solo survial. Status shotguns where good at high levels before U17, now they are worse then the damage shotguns and there is little reason to use them currently, what I think is a bad thing, not only because they where my most used and most favoured weapons for high level before U17, but because this violates the hole concept of status weapons, that does trade dps for better scaling and utility at higher levels.

 

The strun wraith needs 4-5 rounds to soften the armor on a target up to kill it with the amount of damage you have with the full 8 round magazine, however that means it takes like 4 seconds to unload all the rounds and another 3.6s to reload it while haveing nothing left for the small units in the meantime. At L80+ you are just a lot better off with a prisma grakata or braton prime currently, because they do the kill quicker, they reload quicker and also have spare rounds for small stuff around it. It did work fine before U17 with the 1.5s reload, it was not the better choice then the boar prime for solo but had it's place in a group at very high levels where the better ammo economy was very useful. Currently it is just to limited at high levels where you need a lot of rounds for heavy targets compared to pre U17 or the buffed dps shotguns.

 

Boar prime is even worse, the status nerf made it not viable on Ember anymore, it does status still quicker then the strun wraith(what mostly shines by the better ammo economy and better results when you not standing 1m away from the target), but blast knocks targets down(once you fix the proc again, since currently it doesn't even CC properly) what kills your multi target dps and without the ability to use magnetic/toxin or corrosive/fire in a 100% status build it is a lot worse for dps or CC(both on Ember). It just burns far to much ammo beyond the 40 minute mark now, the kill speed is not there to justify it and other advantages like fire CC or being useable with accelerant are also gone. It is currently just a bad shotgun, what is sad, because it was my most used weapon and a very good shotgun before U17.

 

Edit: Btw the defence on Uranus should give T3 keys instead of T2 because it is starting level 20+, what is the turnover point of T2 vs T3 key as far as I am aware.

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I don't have a zillion forma on my Drak, but the only thing that's weird in your build is Fatal Acceleration.  I tried putting that on and I'm still just not seeing any variation in damage here.  If there's an issue then I don't think it's with the weapon in particular. Sorry to be Captian Obvious here but....you're sure there were no ancient healers buffing the guy that was taking a bunch of shots, right?

It's not that weird. It boosts flight speed of pellets, so I don't have to target too far from moving enemy, and it straightens the arc of their travel. It's quality of life mod.

And yes, I'm sure. He was alone on wide stairs to the left of the white tree (void def map).

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It's not that weird. It boosts flight speed of pellets, so I don't have to target too far from moving enemy, and it straightens the arc of their travel. It's quality of life mod.

 

Sorry I didn't mean weird like "doesn't make any sense", rather, weird like it changes the actual mechanics of the weapon as opposed to just being damage.

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Sorry I didn't mean weird like "doesn't make any sense", rather, weird like it changes the actual mechanics of the weapon as opposed to just being damage.

Sometimes pure damage isn't the answer. Sometimes you have to step back, look at it from the distance, and ask yourself "what will make it more enjoyable to use?". In this case, Fatal Acceleration.

 

Edit.

 

Few thing.

First. Sorry, my mistake. It was more likely lvl30 Bombard, not 35.

Second. Indeed, there appears to be no falloff, but it's weird, cos I have mixed results. One time shooting form ~40 meters I oneshoted him, the other time, it only took half of his hp.

d2v6P4m.jpg

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Is it me or does Drakgoon is broken? Just did T3D, and my 5 forma Drakgoon was killing lvl 35 Bombards in one charged hit, while at optimal range. But when the same level Bombard was 20-25 meters away, I had to use 5-6 shots to kill him. Shouldn't falloff be max 50%? And if by any chance I was doing just right amount of damage to achieve one shot kill, I still should be able to kill him with two shots, not six.

 

Drakgoon has no falloff as it meant to be, I can confirm this too.

Otherwise there is no point to use this weapon.

You had probably one shot a bombard with head shot (or critical), and another bombard eximus took more shot at longer range.

That's my guess.

And I suggest you trying again in the simulacrum.

 

But there is one thing really weird with drakgoon vs nullifier's bubble:

It takes 2 uncharged shot to destroy nullifier's bubble.

It takes 6 full charged shot to destroy nullifier's bubble.

Adding punch-through and damage results in worse performance...  :/

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I absolutely love the Tigris. I mean, I loved it since it came out, but now it's just amazing! That 12k slash damage just keeps reminding me of the old gore!

But the Strun Wraith...

Come on guys. The Strun Wraith has been a great weapon for two years. It was born as a fast crit shotgun that quickly reloads and deals decent damage, and now you have a 4.1 seconds reload speed? It was fun to use, but now it's just painful! Give me a reason to use these Maxed Primed Ravage and Primed Point Blank! I bought them both just for the Strun Wraith!

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Just finished my 6th forma on the Tigris.

It's an absolute pleasure to use. Huge numbers, but pretty unwieldy. Doesn't matter though. Two barrels full of swag. Most fun gun to use right now.

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My Tigris is absolutely maxed (with punchtrhough), and I gotta say, it could really use a more severe falloff. I'm one shotting wave four Eximus on Draco across the entire map, when only like 2-3 pellets land.

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RIP strun wraith. I finally got around to taking this guy out to a high level mission with strong enemies. Yeah the manual 1 by 1 reload killed it. I'd empty a clip to clear some really strong enemies, and need my full clip to take on the next set of enemies. Hold on guys, I need to reload 8 rounds. I find myself reload 1 - fire 1, reload 1 - fire 1. That's completely ineffective and I just end up lettting my team down. Nice mechanic, but terrible on the strun wraith. PLUS I was running tactical pump and seeking fury, still too slow.

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My Tigris is absolutely maxed (with punchtrhough), and I gotta say, it could really use a more severe falloff. I'm one shotting wave four Eximus on Draco across the entire map, when only like 2-3 pellets land.

Fall off is the dumbest thing you can do to a weapon. This has been proven by the fact that it was changed with the buff update.

Your idea will only cause shotguns, and the tigris to be unplayable. You are not asking for balance here.

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Fall off is the dumbest thing you can do to a weapon. This has been proven by the fact that it was changed with the buff update.

Your idea will only cause shotguns, and the tigris to be unplayable. You are not asking for balance here.

 

I don't think the reduction of falloff proves as much as you think. The fact that it's still there is proof that DE still wants there to be a limit to a shotgun's effectiveness outside of its dominant range. Perhaps the person you're quoting is simply stating that it's not serving its intended purpose?

 

Limiting falloff past 70m (that's approx. across the Draco, as he stated) wouldn't render shotguns "unplayable." That's not even the range we should be using them in...?

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My Tigris is absolutely maxed (with punchtrhough), and I gotta say, it could really use a more severe falloff. I'm one shotting wave four Eximus on Draco across the entire map, when only like 2-3 pellets land.

The Hek can do the same thing. The damage the two guns have is very similar. They also have the same accuracy rating. I think the lower magazine, slower RoF shotguns need the range to round them out.

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