An Open Letter/discussion About The New Movement...

[illumi]

SO.. A vent about the new movement system. It was bound to happen at some point, right?

 

Preface: I'm a software engineer for a large international company who sells software to other large international companies. I'm a product owner so the software I work on is my responsibility (and I regularly get feedback from my customers).

 

Anyway, I'm trying to decide: what is going on? Why is bullet jump a thing? And why the hell is aim glide a thing?!!?! For a player with a mere 700 hours in the game this is an odd thing to happen. Actually, this has happened to me in another game once before and I'll tell that story shortly. 

 

For me this new movement system is a bit odd. It was marketed to us (the players) as something to be more accessible for new players. Something that would stop players having issues with mashing multiple buttons to move around the environment. Something that would be more ergonomic or stop cramp or carpel tunnel (I've never had any physical issues playing this game, maybe others have. I don't know) but what has really changed? I want to sprint so I'm still holding shift all the time. I'm probably holding shift even more now stamina has been removed. I also want to use the new bullet jump thing so I'm mashing CTRL+space. Before u17 I was sprinting holding shift and mashing CTRL+E so the only thing that has changed is that I'm retraining 700 hours of muscle memory to try to forget the E key and now mash space instead. Not only that but I'm moving through the environment much, much slower. How is this fun? Why has this changed? Retraining muscle memory from the E key to Space bar for slower and less rewarding movement isn't exactly what I had in mind for an 'improvement'.

 

Thinking about it from a user (and a software dev) point of view, what is the reason that the old and new movement systems couldn't operate side by side? Copter and wall hang? Copter and bullet jump? Maybe no coptering at all if you didn't choose to? I would love to see fast paced rewarding gameplay with the new movement dynamics. It would be genuinely interesting to have a CHOICE as a player for moving around the environment. Instead we have what I and many other players have grown accustomed to being ripped out and being forced to use a replacement which is awkward and slow. This isn't an improvement, this is a change in user workflow which for a user base with multiple hundreds of hours using the software is a dangerous thing to do. People, users, are now faced with retraining their actions which isn't natural.

 

I said this happened to me in another game once, this game was GunZ: The Duel. An emergent style of play evolved in this game where players could use melee weapons to cancel animations and gain an advantage. It was a similar movement to coptering where you could dash with a mele weapon but also pull out a weapon(shotgun/rifle/pistol) mid-air to damage opponents. This style of play was removed by the game's developers until the community revolted because it was so incredibly rewarding to play in this way. To be able to move around quickly and damage enemies while flying past them (fast twitch muscle movements) was rewarding and it's something we as players have just lost from Warframe. For example, fast twitch gameplay is a play style prominent in Tribes Ascend and Counterstrike. There have been some other instances of software change in the past which has broken user workflow and had positive developments come of it (for example: Windows 7 -> Windows 8 -> Windows 8.1 and now Windows 10 is an example of "where'd my start menu go?!"). 

 

Since I started playing Warframe anyone asking me about the game would get the response: "it's fun to move around in." Maybe it's early days still but I really don't feel this is the case any more. I just hope this isn't the end of fast paced Warframe gameplay..

 

TL;DR:  1) Muscle memory is important. 2) Shift+CTRL+E (copter) and turned in to Shift+CTRL+Space (bullet jump) and how is that any more ergonomic? 3) Goodbye fast paced gameplay 4) Tenno be slowwww.

[OniDax]

 

SO.. A vent about the new movement system. It was bound to happen at some point, right?

 

Preface: I'm a software engineer for a large international company who sells software to other large international companies. I'm a product owner so the software I work on is my responsibility (and I regularly get feedback from my customers).

 

Anyway, I'm trying to decide: what is going on? Why is bullet jump a thing? And why the hell is aim glide a thing?!!?! For a player with a mere 700 hours in the game this is an odd thing to happen. Actually, this has happened to me in another game once before and I'll tell that story shortly. 

 

For me this new movement system is a bit odd. It was marketed to us (the players) as something to be more accessible for new players. Something that would stop players having issues with mashing multiple buttons to move around the environment. Something that would be more ergonomic or stop cramp or carpel tunnel (I've never had any physical issues playing this game, maybe others have. I don't know) but what has really changed? I want to sprint so I'm still holding shift all the time. I'm probably holding shift even more now stamina has been removed. I also want to use the new bullet jump thing so I'm mashing CTRL+space. Before u17 I was sprinting holding shift and mashing CTRL+E so the only thing that has changed is that I'm retraining 700 hours of muscle memory to try to forget the E key and now mash space instead. Not only that but I'm moving through the environment much, much slower. How is this fun? Why has this changed? Retraining muscle memory from the E key to Space bar for slower and less rewarding movement isn't exactly what I had in mind for an 'improvement'.

 

Thinking about it from a user (and a software dev) point of view, what is the reason that the old and new movement systems couldn't operate side by side? Copter and wall hang? Copter and bullet jump? Maybe no coptering at all if you didn't choose to? I would love to see fast paced rewarding gameplay with the new movement dynamics. It would be genuinely interesting to have a CHOICE as a player for moving around the environment. Instead we have what I and many other players have grown accustomed to being ripped out and being forced to use a replacement which is awkward and slow. This isn't an improvement, this is a change in user workflow which for a user base with multiple hundreds of hours using the software is a dangerous thing to do. People, users, are now faced with retraining their actions which isn't natural.

 

I said this happened to me in another game once, this game was GunZ: The Duel. An emergent style of play evolved in this game where players could use melee weapons to cancel animations and gain an advantage. It was a similar movement to coptering where you could dash with a mele weapon but also pull out a weapon(shotgun/rifle/pistol) mid-air to damage opponents. This style of play was removed by the game's developers until the community revolted because it was so incredibly rewarding to play in this way. To be able to move around quickly and damage enemies while flying past them (fast twitch muscle movements) was rewarding and it's something we as players have just lost from Warframe. For example, fast twitch gameplay is a play style prominent in Tribes Ascend and Counterstrike. There have been some other instances of software change in the past which has broken user workflow and had positive developments come of it (for example: Windows 7 -> Windows 8 -> Windows 8.1 and now Windows 10 is an example of "where'd my start menu go?!"). 

 

Since I started playing Warframe anyone asking me about the game would get the response: "it's fun to move around in." Maybe it's early days still but I really don't feel this is the case any more. I just hope this isn't the end of fast paced Warframe gameplay..

 

TL;DR:  1) Muscle memory is important. 2) Shift+CTRL+E (copter) and turned in to Shift+CTRL+Space (bullet jump) and how is that any more ergonomic? 3) Goodbye fast paced gameplay 4) Tenno be slowwww.

 

 

Whatever. The game is definitely faster-paced now...

[Ninjamander]

Whatever. The game is definitely faster-paced now...

 

faster-paced? the movement feel sluggish and slow ._.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Ninjamander

[--MZez--]

I think 2.0 improves alot its cool we get used to it

[Brasten]

I rebound my movement keys to

 

Sprint: Space

Crouch: C

Jump: Shift

Quick Melee: F or Mouse 4

 

Try moving some of the keybinds around and you may find far better setups for your hand placement than DE has by default.

 

I picked up one of the new mods Mobilize for +20% Bullet Jump, and even on a Prime Frost with Sprint (1.23 Sprint Speed) or Maglev (+30% Slide) I'm moving about as fast as decent coptering. So fast in fact I'm having Physics interactions issues and getting stuck on walls.

 

So, ya, you can go fairly darn fast, and it doesn't even take a specific weapon or Warframe to do it.

[Thalahssalyst]

The game its still fast paced.

Im still moving really really too fast with this movement (use the enviroment lol, use walls etc ) dont make exagerations.


 

[AnimalDamage]

If it's fast twitch muscle movements you are lacking, try dashing across a room full of enemies while blocking with your melee weapon, landing in the middle of a cluster and just mashing all of them.

[vaugahn]

Bullet jump, aim glide and double jump are all good. I've been getting a lot of use out of bullet jump especially, and aim glide has managed to actually be useful now and then. Wall movement still needs work. It's finicky and seems to stop working on occasion same as before, and fine control is still very difficult. The new animation is kind of weird as well. I think that's partially a level design issue, but it definitely needs work either way.

 

In the end, I think we now have a much better base to work off than what we have before. Overall it's a massive step up, though it's going to need continued improvement to really deliver on some of its promises. 

[Alice-Proxy]

At least you won't get instagibbed with coptering in PvP now.

[Gullim92]

I think one of the important selling points DE intended for the new system was to remove the bias towards melee that could copter well, so players would start using other melee weapons.

Personally I don't hate the new system. It doesn't make much difference in the small, cramped corridors of some tilesets and its MUCH more manageable than the old parkour system we had, special mention goes to wall running which used to fling us into the air.

However, I don't see a reason to completely disable the mobility of melee weapons. We could've had this same system and still retain coptering.

If DE thought that it simply didn't look natural, or it was too cumbersome for most players to execute, they could have changed the directional melee (which, by the way, has also had all its momentum taken away) so that it inherited the speed of coptering

 

While this new system is an upgrade from what we had, it didn't need the removal of coptering to exist. Despite how responsive and polished the system might be, it'll still be slow when it comes to traveling the larger tiles.

 

tl:dr = The new system is good, but coptering shouldn't have been sacrificed for it

Edited August 1, 2015 by Gullim92

[Scr4mp]

Parkour 2.0 shows one thing atm: the big gap between people that used to copter and people that did not.

For the people that used to copter its like being forced to drive 50kph while they were driving 100kph so far.

And for those that didn't copter its an increasment from 30 kph to 50 kph.

For the coptering community this is a slow down that throws them totaly off balance. For them it is sluggish as hell.

For those who never used coptering it seems "fast paced" while it is not.

[khazlol]

Jumping across whole rooms with a single jump was silly

Edited August 1, 2015 by khazlol

[SJunior]

Jumping across whole rooms with a single jump was silly

 

This.

 

And right now we don't have to equip a certain melee weapon just to be fast. This is way better.

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

Parkour 2.0 shows one thing atm: the big gap between people that used to copter and people that did not.

For the people that used to copter its like being forced to drive 50kph while they were driving 100kph so far.

And for those that didn't copter its an increasment from 30 kph to 50 kph.

For the coptering community this is a slow down that throws them totaly off balance. For them it is sluggish as hell.

For those who never used coptering it seems "fast paced" while it is not.

 

Then I must be a special case :x! I brought my precious tipedo everywhere (aside from when I was lvlin) and naturally it is my most used melee. At 1st 2.0 did seem slow and stupid and frustrating. Took me all of a few minutes to get use to it and it seems fast enough. While it will not be faster then our sound barrier breaking copter lords it makes me wonder how are people adjusting so slow or not adjusting at all. 

[ROSING]

Another argument against coptering was that it looked glitchy and weird, both to devs and some players. In addition, adding coptering as a choice would force players to use it as the only choice because there is no alternative faster in the current system. By adding more choice, you effectively provide only one viable choice.

[QuiQuQa]

So thats like your opinion man

I like the new system, it feels more fluid and now you are not forced to use just 1 or 2 melee weapons

[Heatnix.]

As a player that never used coptering (didn't even knew what it meant before U17's complainers flooded here) I feel this new parkour to be fun and less rigid. It let us be faster and move around the stage more freely. I just miss running on the walls.

 

I'm sorry but those holding on to coptering do it out of their comfort zone being tiny which is quite natural. People overall will fight change with all their might without noticing. It's a very interesting thing that happens naturally! You'll be all right soon. Or end up leaving the game. Either way you'll get a solution soon!

[Rexlars]

Well, this post is a bit uninformed. 

 

Reasons for removal of coptering:

1.) It began as an exploit. So, it wasn't intentional. 

2.) It doesn't look good. You're flying through the air with your feet dangling like your on Six Flag's Superman ride. Error 404: Proper animations not found.

Main Issue —3.) If you wanted to go fast at all, you had to have a specific melee weapon. If you used a weapon that wasn't copterfriendly (most of them)....well, I hope you enjoy not playing the game because the rest of your team will fly a thousand rooms ahead of you & kill everything. 

4.) The momentum garnered from it would have you smashing into walls, getting stuck on them. That & even breaking the maps, going THROUGH the walls into the outside of the map.

5.) It's a MELEE attack, intended for combat. Not world traversal. 

 

Not only that, but...

Fastest coptering: Space + Ctrl + Shift + E 

Bullet Jump: Ctrl + Space 

How is that more button pressing? 

 

You're issue doesn't seem to even be with the new "movement system," but rather Bullet Jump in itself. There's no arguing about Aim Gliding, Wall Clinging, etc. because we didn't have that previously anyway (they are new features that can't be compared to anything) & the new Wall Dash allows greater control than the Wall Run we had while letting you climb indefinitely.

 

However, I do agree that the speed could be upped some & that some tweaks certainly need to happen, but for what it is...I think it's good. 

[Lost_Cartographer]

This change improved game play and movement big time.  I used coptering to move through areas ASAP.  While the slow down is kind of a pain, at the same time, the movement is much more fluid, offers far greater control, and just looks much cooler.  I can still cross rooms fairly quickly.  I can also reach points that were once a pain to get to with little effort now.

 

Really, if a newb were to happen upon some random Warframe video on Youtube, I doubt they'd be very impressed with seeing someone zoom across 50m in half a second because of an attack - that just looks glitchy as hell.  This new system though?  Cool stuff.  Something that really hasn't been done in other games.  Sure, wall running isn't new, but it is on the scale we see in Warframe.  

 

Mostly, the complaints about losing coptering stem from the fact that some people just couldn't be bothered to stop and actually shoot the guys in their way.  Frankly, the game can do without feeling like a race to the finish line with these things called Grineer and Corpus being more background decoration to ignore.

[pauli133]

I'm trying to figure out how and why the OP has gone 700 hours into this game without turning on sprint toggle.

[Endothermia]

Alright, I hate looking at these forums, but Im forced to when I want find update info on the game, and curiosity gets the better of me. Im going to ignore the obvious problems people have with coptering and take a minute to go over what you said.

 

One thing Id just like to point out that what you are talking about in GunZ required skill. You had to have the timings down and you had to be able to out-maneuver your opponent. It sounds like a very high paced battle involving a lot of techniques and practice. Coptering doest have a skill factor, so it also doesnt have the rewarding "Wow! I am so cool!" factor. Equip the right weapon, mod it to attack as fast as you can, press two buttons to go flying across the map. There is no skill, just a "Wow, lol! That was dumb!". If you want to argue for a more rewarding parkour system, copterng is not the example you want to be throwing around.

 

 

Edit: Spelling and grammar.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Legoblob

[Zerdfer]

Parkour 2.0 shows one thing atm: the big gap between people that used to copter and people that did not.

For the people that used to copter its like being forced to drive 50kph while they were driving 100kph so far.

And for those that didn't copter its an increasment from 30 kph to 50 kph.

For the coptering community this is a slow down that throws them totaly off balance. For them it is sluggish as hell.

For those who never used coptering it seems "fast paced" while it is not.

SO true 

 

I would add, at least coptering was kinda fun. Now we just have to press "crtl+space space" continuously to have the feeling to go faster.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Zerdfer

[ComfyOlivia]

Good post, OP. No bashing, just straight feedback in the form of an actual analysis and not just "Where is my coptering?!?!?" as others have been.

I have not personally played with the new parkour system, but from what I have seen and heard, it's a good system that allows for great vertical movememt, and horizontal movement that now makes sense.

Coptering had a lot of issues. It made something that should depend on speed and physical strength and made it about your weapons. Now, people don't have to get the battle paddle to compete with the speed of a speed runner.

This is the way it should be. Mobility based on personal knowledge of the Parkour and movement system. Not whoever has the Tipedo.

As far as your other points go OP, I can't really answer to them, as I cannot play atm.

[Aimop95]

I find it a lot less rigid than the old system, also there is a lot more control. I never enjoyed coptering, and while it was fun to fly across a tileset in a single fling, it forced me to focus less on the gameplay and more on the rewards at the end of the mission, also, it highly discouraged new players from exploring and staying around to kill mobs in order to get mods. 

[Vunie]

the new system is way better than the old one coptering forced you to use only a few weapons flying across the whole map while it was fun at times got old with time also you should try the new mods some make you faster