An Open Letter/discussion About The New Movement...

[EChondo]

I just love how everyone is bashing coptering because it looks "weird" and "buggy", you think Bullet Time and that spin in the air doesn't look weird and buggy? I think that 100% looks like it shouldn't be a thing. It doesn't make as much sense as coptering does.

 

All this new Parkour system says to me is don't bother equipping a melee weapon now since they're worthless.

[Vargras]

For the people saying Parkour 2.0 is too slow now: You used coptering for how long? You've used Parkour 2.0 for how long?

 

Chill. Get used to the new system. You'll be just as fast, if not faster.

[SuperWeedy-EGT-]

I was a big copter fan so I was kinda resistant to the change at first, but after playing for a few hours I absolutely love it. Its a little slower but doesnt degrade the feeling of speed like I was expecting. Ctrl+Space+Space is my new copter =D

Im dont find myself using bullet glide much, probablly because I have seen a way better implementation of this, Max Payne 2 to be precise. They need to make it so you will glide and lay on the floor firing as long as you hold RMB or your magazine is empty, then its perfect.

Wall hopping is pretty nice but seems to have a limited possibilities of application, similiar to wall running. Its somewhat useable with the new moves in combos, so we will have to wait and see how it turns out as players' skill increases.

[SirSmite]

For the people saying Parkour 2.0 is too slow now: You used coptering for how long? You've used Parkour 2.0 for how long?

 

Chill. Get used to the new system. You'll be just as fast, if not faster.

Exactly.

 

The moment I got my hands on it, I simply fell in love with it. Give it a chance and get familiar with the controls.

[F-Minus]

Well at least I can explore different melee weapons now which are actually good. I liked to fly around like a super man on steroids, but in order to do that most efficiently, you had to have Ceramic Dagger as your melee, which we all know is kind of crap when it comes to melee weapons. 

 

So far I like the new system, it's clearly slower as exploiting the copter bug, but that doesn't matter to me now, if I hit a limit in speed, I hit the limit on speed, only now I don't have to sacrifice weapon slots for inferior weapons. The only thing I really dislike is the wall-run animations, which is bunny hopping instead of actually running - I guess that could be easily fixed with a new animation set - smooth running looked more like ninjas, this what we have now doesn't - but it's really a minor problem in my book. 

 

Of course there's still some bugs with the new system, but they will eventually get ironed out or we will learn to live with them like with did with the old system, and even find new ways to move faster. 

[F-Minus]

I was a big copter fan so I was kinda resistant to the change at first, but after playing for a few hours I absolutely love it. Its a little slower but doesnt degrade the feeling of speed like I was expecting. Ctrl+Space+Space is my new copter =D

Im dont find myself using bullet glide much, probablly because I have seen a way better implementation of this, Max Payne 2 to be precise. They need to make it so you will glide and lay on the floor firing as long as you hold RMB or your magazine is empty, then its perfect.

Wall hopping is pretty nice but seems to have a limited possibilities of application, similiar to wall running. Its somewhat useable with the new moves in combos, so we will have to wait and see how it turns out as players' skill increases.

 

Max Payne slowed down the game when you entered "bullet-time", this can't really be done in an online-shooter because each time you would bullet-jump the game would have to slow down for every player (something Rockstar did with the newest Max Payne, but was utterly annoying), which would make the game feel as if someone else is controlling your avatar. 

 

As it is right now it seem to only slow you down as in, removing speed, making you glide slower, whilst the world is still moving at it's normal speed. You can find some good uses for it, most of all, gliding over long distances, gliding over chasms and such and you can still combo into something else after it, that propels you even further - quite useful as a movement mechanic.

[Omnimorph]

Parkour 2.0 shows one thing atm: the big gap between people that used to copter and people that did not.

For the people that used to copter its like being forced to drive 50kph while they were driving 100kph so far.

And for those that didn't copter its an increasment from 30 kph to 50 kph.

For the coptering community this is a slow down that throws them totaly off balance. For them it is sluggish as hell.

For those who never used coptering it seems "fast paced" while it is not.

 

Not actually true.  I used coptering just like everyone else, but because I was forced to - because everyone else used it. 

 

And wrt whether it was "fun" or not, I was always ambivalent.  In one sense it was "fun" in the sense that fast movement leaps are fun.  In another sense it wasn't "fun", in that it always felt dorky and sort of unrealistic (why should melee weapon affect travel speed)?

 

DE's mistake was twofold:-

 

1) Not immediately nerfing coptering when it first became a thing, and

 

2) Not immediately realizing that its popularity meant people like and want a fast "leap" type movement in the game, and replacing coptering with something more like Bullet Jump from the get-go.

 

As it is, they've left 1) so late that it's bound to cause unhappiness for lots of people who are used to coptering.

 

On the plus side, better late than never, and now they have a game where the differential in movement between new players and experienced players isn't so great, and doesn't depend on a special maneouvre that's not given in the tutorial, and doesn't depend on particular weapons to get the best out of it.

 

Seems to me so far that the movement system isn't as fast as coptering at its fastest, but is faster now on average than it was before, and for beginning and average players.  That's a net win for DE in the long run, even if it's a bit of an annoyance to more experienced players.

 

But more experienced players should know to adapt and overcome.

 

I take OP's point about muscle-memory, but as has been said numerous times, the game is still in beta, IOW, what DE are doing is precisely what they need to be doing, tweaking and fiddling with core systems until they're happy.

 

If this sort of thing happened in an officially released game with an established playerbase, then I think yeah, it would be a problem.

 

But Warframe is still a baby game.  It's popular as a beta, but with a big marketing push, as a finished game, it could be extremely popular.  But it has to be ready for that big marketing push.  These sorts of problems have to be ironed out by then.

[SuperWeedy-EGT-]

Max Payne slowed down the game when you entered "bullet-time", this can't really be done in an online-shooter because each time you would bullet-jump the game would have to slow down for every player (something Rockstar did with the newest Max Payne, but was utterly annoying), which would make the game feel as if someone else is controlling your avatar. 

 

As it is right now it seem to only slow you down as in, removing speed, making you glide slower, whilst the world is still moving at it's normal speed. You can find some good uses for it, most of all, gliding over long distances, gliding over chasms and such and you can still combo into something else after it, that propels you even further - quite useful as a movement mechanic.

Not so much the speed, but that the animation ends lying/sliding on the ground while firing instead of standing up. It would make it alot more smooth.

[Ninjamander]

honestly. they should revert the change on jump + melee = dash. This mobility was important for melee only user/build because it give you the ability to strike camera and airborne enemy.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Ninjamander

[Tsunero]

I like the new Air Glide, Double Jump and Wall Run but Bullet Jump is very slow and looks pretty weird. Good thing that we can still go fast (somewhat) with Shift + Space otherwise the slowness would be unbearable.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Momo93

[Askell91]

Okay... the coptering was not a part of ANY PLANED SYSTEM what you speak of. It was a BUG what users well....used... The stated that they will get rid of it a long time ago, and it was a good change. 

 

1. I do not belive you have 700 hours in this game

2. I do not think you made any effort in trying out the new movement system...

3. These posts are getting old already.. srsly stop...

4. Either way you stay or leave it's up to you i don't think a lot of people will care about it... 

[Tsunero]

Okay... the coptering was not a part of ANY PLANED SYSTEM what you speak of. It was a BUG what users well....used... The stated that they will get rid of it a long time ago, and it was a good change. 

 

1. I do not belive you have 700 hours in this game

2. I do not think you made any effort in trying out the new movement system...

3. These posts are getting old already.. srsly stop...

4. Either way you stay or leave it's up to you i don't think a lot of people will care about it... 

 

Sure but the majority liked it, including me. It could have peacefully existed along with the new system, being toggleable from the options....

[FruntlineXtreme]

I'll admit that coptering with the Tipedo/Orthos is faster than BulletJump, but I think a lot of people forget the fact that enemies basically aim like strom troopers when using aimglide.

[Ninjamander]

Okay... the coptering was not a part of ANY PLANED SYSTEM what you speak of. It was a BUG what users well....used... The stated that they will get rid of it a long time ago, and it was a good change. 

 

1. I do not belive you have 700 hours in this game

 

Just no...look at my own hour

 

 

2. I do not think you made any effort in trying out the new movement system...

 

It was just release recently, and it already feel a bit sluggish, but I am happy that coptering is gone but not the jump + e melee sash

 

3. These posts are getting old already.. srsly stop...

 

your asking people to stop posting feedback...in a forum that are designed to give feedback, opinion, get information. Your <stop> is meaningless.

 

4. Either way you stay or leave it's up to you i don't think a lot of people will care about it... 

 

and yet you care enough to post something like this and you don't believe that people can get over 700 hour. Some people will care and some wont. We all provide feedback because we share the same love about warframe.

 

[Invalid_Infinity]

For the people saying Parkour 2.0 is too slow now: You used coptering for how long? You've used Parkour 2.0 for how long?

 

Chill. Get used to the new system. You'll be just as fast, if not faster.

Believe me I tried out an absolute crapton of ways to move faster and none of them worked. All of them were at least five times slower.

 

Yes we are now more maneuverable but the cost in speed is just not worth it.

[10thdivine]

Then I must be a special case :x! I brought my precious tipedo everywhere (aside from when I was lvlin) and naturally it is my most used melee. At 1st 2.0 did seem slow and stupid and frustrating. Took me all of a few minutes to get use to it and it seems fast enough. While it will not be faster then our sound barrier breaking copter lords it makes me wonder how are people adjusting so slow or not adjusting at all.

More than half the playerbase was a special case all using tipedo

Edited August 1, 2015 by 10thdivine

[Jaruis]

It's still fast-paced

 

There's a thing called TOO fast-paced. Tenno aren't copters going at 50 mph

[robertgk2017]

Why are people saying it's faster when it isnt. I guarantee you coptering was way faster

[Ninjamander]

Why are people saying it's faster when it isnt. I guarantee you coptering was way faster

 

it was, now the control feel floaty XD

[Rakosta_Kai]

 

TL;DR:  1) Muscle memory is important.

2) Shift+CTRL+E (copter) and turned in to Shift+CTRL+Space (bullet jump) and how is that any more ergonomic?

3) Goodbye fast paced gameplay 4) Tenno be slowwww.

 

 

1) Muscle memory is definitely important... It's also trained. Practice creates muscle memory

2) Bullet Jump done as you described is actually doing two separate actions (sprint and bullet jump)... I haven't seen a reason to use both as it seems to do very little.  You don't need the momentum/speed to get the extra distance anymore.  Where all those key presses were a requirement to copter at all in the old system.

3) My gameplay hasn't gotten a bit slower since parkour 2.0... It's actually sped up a bit in open environs.

           If anything, I am able to:

                      explore more

                      melee tons more without the stamina concerns.

                      use any melee weapon that tickles my fancy at that moment

4) Not sure what to tell ya boss.. I have more speed, distance, height, and control now along with having the ability to strip armor with piercing step.

 

Takes 21 days to make/break a habit, so give it that much time and see what you think then.

[Diablol]

i have to press 3x or more times ctrl + space now instead of one time space + crtl + shift +e 

 

pls kill me my hand is hurting from all the button mashing

[Afebrile]

i have to press 3x or more times ctrl + space now instead of one time space + crtl + shift +e

pls kill me my hand is hurting from all the button mashing

I have a similar problem with the new system.

In the old version of movement I could briefly hold Alt (keybound to crouch while held) to slide for a momentum boost or E in the air for the melee attack that launched you. Pressing Alt so often and always holding down shift was somewhat annoying, but bearable.

With these changes I get less movement for something that is less comfortable and requires more effort. To get something similar to the aerial melee launch I need to hold Right click, Alt, then without releasing Alt, press space (2 keys with the same finger). I could rebind Alt to a toggle so I don't have to press both keys at once, but this makes crouching bulky by requiring me to press it a second time to stop the slide. A second option is using ctrl for a toggle slide, but that's still an extra (uncomfortable) key I need to press.

I actually like many of the changes made, but the additional and less comfortable key inputs is highly annoying and possibly game breaking for me.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Afebrile

[-InV-igo95862]

Parkour 2.0 shows one thing atm: the big gap between people that used to copter and people that did not.

For the people that used to copter its like being forced to drive 50kph while they were driving 100kph so far.

And for those that didn't copter its an increasment from 30 kph to 50 kph.

For the coptering community this is a slow down that throws them totaly off balance. For them it is sluggish as hell.

For those who never used coptering it seems "fast paced" while it is not.

 

Except that new parkour has a CTRL-SPACE-SPACE-CTRL combination that goes as fast as coptering. People who could not execute coptering won't be able to execute this new combo. We were promised a system that would require less button strokes but what we got even more buttons plus completely unaccurate wall runs.

[Ninjamander]

Except that new parkour has a CTRL-SPACE-SPACE-CTRL combination that goes as fast as coptering. People who could not execute coptering won't be able to execute this new combo. We were promised a system that would require less button strokes but what we got even more buttons plus completely unaccurate wall runs.

 

with coptering..I use crouch toggle...meaning I press c (crouch toggle) jump and E. I was also able to just jump and press E for a quick jump (also a very good melee attack against airborne enemy..and probably the only one =/) to reach somewhere.

 

I love this some of the element from this new movement..why not combining both =/?

[Nlim]

Parkour 2.0 shows one thing atm: the big gap between people that used to copter and people that did not.

For the people that used to copter its like being forced to drive 50kph while they were driving 100kph so far.

And for those that didn't copter its an increasment from 30 kph to 50 kph.

For the coptering community this is a slow down that throws them totaly off balance. For them it is sluggish as hell.

For those who never used coptering it seems "fast paced" while it is not.

 

Eh, don´t just generalize. I love coptering (tipedo with furry and berserk ftw <3) but still enjoy the new system since it has a bunch of interesting quirks.

First off I find it weird that you would call the new system sluggish compared to the old one - the way coptering worked was a very set in motion, it could cover a lot of distance fast (depending on the weapon) but it wasn´t very flexible with dealing with obstacles at all - you had to keep chaining straight fairly fixed in lenght lines after each other to not lose a lot of speed. Directional melee adressed a bunch of those issues (espescially the lack of ways to tackle vertical obstacales) since one could start off with a directional melee and than change velocit&direction with a follow up copter and/or air slide at the right time - it gave a lot of control (espescially since it made wall jumps way easier to incorperate into the move set) but if you wanted to go for the faster weapons you also needed a lot of room for this to work properly (best example of the issue is the bock standard corpus corridor with two doors in a line and some sort of lengthy pillar in the middle - since you can´t connect both doors in a line & the ceiling is very low the movemment falls apart since most directions would just land in a wall - there were some ways to get around it but in the end they were usually a major pain which broke the flow of movement),

Now with the new system you can actually bullet jump even through a room with low ceiling and even use the wall for a combo to circumvent a obstacle while keeping speed up (bulllet jump into wall -> jump -> bullet jump gets around a lot of things once on gets the hang of it while keeping the speed up).

This kind of ties into the speed issues - in a open field coptering is definitly faster no question but in enclosed spaces the jury is kind of still out for me. With the right mod bullet jumps have a decent speed and while a skilled player could adress the difficulties with coptering in those spaces it often involved slowing down for some corners to be faster for the next lines - I would need to master the new system first to be sure what is faster in a typical level but in the end the thing which may tip the scale for me in favour of the new system is that despite the top speed the new system is just more flexible - with coptering in many situations your mobility got severly hampered be it by the room layout or just because one got in a bad corner during a fight while it looks like Parkour 2.0 is useable in almost any situation as long as one is skilled enough.

 

So even if coptering has the top speed or is somewhat faster overall I would still prefer a system which can be fast in all situations rather than one with highs&lows since I hate being a slow poke more than I like going at the fasted speed possible (otherwise I would be running range nova with wormhole since its top speed surpasses coptering easily).