Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

This Is Not The Type Of Feedback You Are Looking For After All Your Work With U8 - Welcome To Warfarmers

Aerensiniac

By Aerensiniac,
in General

 Share

Recommended Posts

Aerensiniac

Aerensiniac

Posted
Posted (edited)

warfarmer.png

 

 

I honestly hate to be the guy to do this, but there is literally no way of sugar coating this.

I was looking forward to U8 as the reason to continue playing, as something that breaks the endless farming cycle of doing repetitive no effort **** over and over again, and presents some form of action or challenge that will allow me to re-experience the game and put my maxed out frames to use.

Instead i log in and literally the only thing i can do is start producing a guild key for 12 hours just so im able to visit the grounds of my own guild. Really?

 

So im browsing over the patch notes what "the largest update yet" has brought for us in terms of gaming.

 

 

GRINEER GALLEON (NEW LOCATION SET!)
-At last we can reveal the Grineer ships!
-Explore vast, rusted chambers evocative of an amazing space-submarine vibe that exudes the gritty bulk of the Grineer Army!
-The Grineer ships come with new vicious enemies, hell-bent on dismembering any Tenno intruders.
-Lieutenant Lech Kril has been training and this already formidable Grineer boss has new tricks up his sleeve.

Farm in rusty ships.

 

OROKIN VOID (NEW SECRET LOCATION SET!)
-An exciting new tile-set hidden within a dimensional fold!
-Players can buy or loot Void Keys to open up exciting loot runs in the Ancient Orokin Towers.
-Explore the hidden fortresses of the Ancient Orokin race!
-But beware, these are dangerous places, fraught with traps and guarded by the corrupted remains of past-raiders!

Pay or farm for keys

 

DOJO BUILDING (ALPHA)
-Brand new tile set with Tenno architecture & design
-New set of possibilities for user-created levels begins with our Dojo Building (Alpha).
-Clan members contribute resources to fund construction projects to build their Clan 'Dojo'.
-Architects have total control of the layout, selecting hallways, junctions and special rooms to build.
-Clan members 'vote with their resources', funding the construction to completion.
-Note: Expect a few bumps as this is an ambitious new feature for Warframe: player-created levels! We will be working hard to smooth out the kinks and pave the way for amazing player-built future of Warframe!
-The Dojo can be accessed by joining or creating a clan. Doing this automatically puts a Dojo Key blueprint in your inventory to craft.

Farm for materials
 

DOJO RESEARCH (ALPHA)
-Clans can build Dojo rooms that open up Technology research options...
-This gives your clan access to an array of deadly new weapons only accessible through the research system.
-Clan members collect research samples and pool resources to fund advanced new weaponry projects.
-Upon completion, members have access to Blueprints allowing them to build never-seen-before weaponry in their Foundry!

Farm for materials

 

DUELING (ALPHA)
-Clans can build special dueling rooms to challenge your Clan members to friendly duels!
-Clan members can watch the action and cry foul... our small dueling team is eager for feedback and have been careful to balance dueling in a way that only affects the Duels.

Farm for materials

 

POLARIZE WEAPON SYSTEM!
-Got your gear to level 30? Prepare to Polarize!
-With the newly discovered “Forma”, you can now add or swap a Polarity value on your gear every time you reach level 30.
-Forma can be purchased or found through Daily Login Rewards, Alerts, or possible Mission rewards for completing missions in The Void.

Pay or farm for forma

 

HUD IMPROVEMENTS!
-Viewing your party’s stats is now a Toggle option instead of Hold key!
-Want to take some fancy screenshots.. WITHOUT the HUD? Now you can!

Turn off my hud while farming.

 

WHAT IS STALKER?
-We don’t know.. but we’ve heard killing him can garner quite the reward…

Farm bosses to trigger a farmable boss which then gives me blueprints in order to farm mats.
 

NEW WEAPONS & GEAR!
-20+ new weapons added in this update!
-Tenno crafted Kunai (throwing daggers) available in the market for a silent weapon option in your pistol slot.
-New Grineer weapons added to the Market including the Machete, Dual Cleavers, and the lethal Vulkar sniper rifle.
-By popular demand the Market also now has a single-handed Ether Sword, and Dual Broncos for sale.
-As mentioned above, Clan Research brings 9 exciting new player weapons to Warframe, but you need to build your research facilities to discover them!
-Energy weapons, Biological Toxins and high-impact explosives are waiting to be uncovered.
-In addition to these weapons, there are 5 rare weapons to chase in special drops. Who will discover them first?
-New Sentinel Pet available in the Marketplace...the infamous Dethcube!
-Looking for blueprint components to build your Frost Prime? Seek out the Orokin Towers in the Void!

20 New exciting weapons to farm with.
 

BRAND NEW MODS!
-Sanctuary - Creates a shield around the player when they are reviving fallen allies.
-Reach - Extends melee reach by %
-Master Thief - % chance to unlock locked lockers.
-Insulation - Reduces effect of environment ice on shields.
-Rage - Damage done to your health is added to your energy.
-Melee Channel - Any energy you expend in casting is added to your next melee strike.
-Acrobat - Reduces stamina cost on wallruns!
-Hawk Eye - Pistol zoom
-Eagle Eye - Rifle zoom

New mods to farm for.

 

So like... Dont get me wrong. I really dont want to belittle your work and effort.

I would have to be a real ******* ****** *** to say that this was a no effort patch. Far from it. VERY far from it.

The sheer volume alone is worth praise, not mention all the elements that finally give a bit of depth to the gameplay. A guild system and base building that is one of the best i have ever seen, a point to stalker, exciting new drops, mods, weapons and what not.

 

That being said:

I have spend 2+ months with nonstop farming (cause there is LITERALLY nothing else to do in this game) just to now see more and more farming implemented into it without even looking at the larger issues such as worthless bosses, no difficulty, no loot scaling, no team play, no fix goals to work towards, rng flastered across everything, etc.

Its a good patch, and im 100% sure that those who started the game right now will enjoy the **** out of it.

As for those who are like me: We are out. See you at U9 maybe, when we have collected enough will to continue farming or some additions have been made to the game that present us with some actual playing content and/or challenge other than farming for farming's sake.

 

Edited and elaborated: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49998-this-is-not-the-type-of-feedback-you-are-looking-for-after-all-your-work-with-u8-welcome-to-warfarmers/page-4#entry521954

Edited by Aerensiniac
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mir.

Mir.

Posted
Posted

From what have been gathered, most players detest RNG; alerts, drops, etc.

 

Most of they would rather work for something or rather farm.

 

I don't mind spending a little more time to farm for the things I want, but so far farming for void keys seem to be as hard as banshee parts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jingleheimer

Jingleheimer

Posted
Posted

This is basically an RPG.  Leveling or improving your character is a core mechanic.  Essentially everything is going to be a veneer over that leveling/farming mechanic.

 

While you provided a perspective from the negative point of view, how about this:

 

Improved Aesthetics (Grineer ships)

Goof around with clan mates in the dojo

More drops from bosses (more materials), resulting in fewer no-drop boss runs, we can hope!

More variety in weapons

More variety in mods

Missions with improved rewards (the beginning of a progression mechanic!)

Finally some reward for killing that jerk (stalker)

 

 

The game is only farming if you aren't enjoying playing it.  But there's no suggestions to improve it above.  Reading into your words, perhaps more lore would help?  More of a storyline?  More of a linear adventure style?  What else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Habba

Habba

Posted
Posted

Where is farming here ???

Dude , the keys are hard to get , because they are END-GAME-CONTENT (like in Path of Exile for example with Dungeon Scrolls)

If you would get them easily , it were no end-game content ...

And paying for it is like a short-cut .

DE needs money , and verything can be achieved through playing without paying .

They made a good game , invented an own engine . They are working Day and Night if there is a Problem , and they are talking with us (the player-base/community).

Really , these are the best Devs i know . I have never seen something like this . And what is the different between other games ? Online games are all about farming . Doesnt matter if resources or experience .

GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE FOR AN ONLINE GAME WITHOUT FARMING !

CoD(nah i am not playing it) -> Experience farmin for level-up and Prestige

Guild-Wars -> Farm for good items/Drops

and so on ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aerensiniac

Aerensiniac

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Dude , the keys are hard to get , because they are END-GAME-CONTENT (like in Path of Exile for example with Dungeon Scrolls)

Yeah well... correct me if im wrong, but end game content usually is not something you can solo without even firing a shot.

The problem is not farming mate. You have read my post wrong. The problem is that there is ONLY farming.

There is no challenge, no team work, no real bosses, no raids, no tactics, no roles, no trade, barely any socializing... this game is bare bones. Its perfect for a presentation at E3, but sadly it lacks literally every and any forms of basic features that makes a game, a game on the long run.

Instead of me naming a game that does not require farming, i encourage you to name a game like warframe that has NOTHING but farming.

 

Im sure that some time in the future this issue will be fixed.

Im only stating that i hoped for U8 to present some form of reason to play for those who are bored of the constant, nonstop farming. Instead: we got more farming.

Edited by Aerensiniac
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jingleheimer

Jingleheimer

Posted
Posted

Farming games? 

 

WoW, Everquest, EVE, CoD, ME3, etc, etc, etc.

 

Every game with a strong RPG component boils down to just farming for better gear to farm for better gear ... If there's something about the veneer or facade of those games that makes you feel like they aren't just farming, then tease it out and tell us.  Maybe it can be applied to Warframe... and we'd all love you for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aerensiniac

Aerensiniac

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Farming games? 

 

WoW, Everquest, EVE, CoD, ME3, etc, etc, etc.

 

Every game with a strong RPG component boils down to just farming for better gear to farm for better gear ... If there's something about the veneer or facade of those games that makes you feel like they aren't just farming, then tease it out and tell us.  Maybe it can be applied to Warframe... and we'd all love you for it.

Refer to post #5

Most level based games have some form of farming in them, in order to extend game play. True.

However most level based games do not consist of farming exclusive. "There is no challenge, no team work, no real bosses, no raids, no tactics, no roles, no trade, barely any socializing... this game is bare bones."

 

tl;dr: The issue is not farming. The issue is that there is NOTHING except farming.

**** not even the difficulty/reward scaling works. You can run level 1 missions for the EXACT SAME chances of EVERYTHING compared to level 60.

Edited by Aerensiniac
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aerensiniac

Aerensiniac

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

I didn't realize DE promised an end to farming with U8. I don't see a current problem with farming for new things; it's that way for a lot of other games.

 

Would you care to offer a suggestion as to what an alternative endgame for Warframe should be?

End game or at least a bit of depth to the game?

Lets see...

- Levels that require you to have a bit of thinking instead of just rushing through (by whatever means, including mazes, climbing hazards, movement challenges)

- Actual boss fights that require either team work (due to difficulty) or brains (with non direct damage kills and/or shooting specific parts/combination of parts), instead of just shooting at the direction of the boss which will either one shot you, or look in your direction with a tear in its eye.

- Raids that require more than 4 players

- Loot scaling with difficulty increase so there is at least SOME merit to the fact that im killing stuff in a level 50+ mission.

- At least SOME fixed drops instead of painting rng onto EVERYTHING (primary example: wave 75 for an uncommon hellfire mod. well ****ing done)

- Maps with a difficulty that require roles and/or team tactics (instead of having 4 solo players with 0 communication on one map mowing down everything without even taking damage to health)

- Synergy and frame ability combos i.e. mag's bullet attractor and excalibur's radial javelin.

- Lore/collectibles

- Achievements and effort related skins/colors/items/whatever

- Missions that are on par with your maxed/oc gear (in clear text: Hardcore content for those who have already hit the level cap)

- Clan related missions/events

- Some form of competitive mode between clans

- etc

 

If i were to focus only on the question of "end game", then my answer can be summarized in 3 major points:

1. There is no team play nor any form of content that would require you to do so

2. Bosses are worthless and difficulty/reward scaling is completely broken and/or nonexistent

3. Lack of non RNG related items - whether its achievements, fixed drops, fixed wave loot or whatever, having only rng burns your players out

 

Its hard to compare warframe to other MMOs on the market, but there are also generic elements which hold true never the less, such as difficulty, team play, and reason/goal to work towards. Having no difficulty scaling/generally 0 challenge in the game destroys the first and second while rng destroys the third. Its also worth to mention that while RNG will keep your players busy for a lot longer than fixed or higher percentage drops, it will also burn them out a hundred times quicker since they will be doing the same thing over and over again for no form of reward or success. This problem ofc multiplies when its matched up with the fact that difficulty is nonexistent and you can run across maps without firing a single shot.

Edited by Aerensiniac
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aerensiniac

Aerensiniac

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Maybe a real challenge, not a time eating brainless farm? 

From what have been gathered, most players detest RNG; alerts, drops, etc.

Most of they would rather work for something or rather farm.

I don't mind spending a little more time to farm for the things I want, but so far farming for void keys seem to be as hard as banshee parts.

May these 2 comments serve as a tl;dr example to my wall of text.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wooben

Wooben

Posted
Posted

This is basically an RPG.  Leveling or improving your character is a core mechanic.  Essentially everything is going to be a veneer over that leveling/farming mechanic.

 

While you provided a perspective from the negative point of view, how about this:

 

Improved Aesthetics (Grineer ships)

Goof around with clan mates in the dojo

More drops from bosses (more materials), resulting in fewer no-drop boss runs, we can hope!

More variety in weapons

More variety in mods

Missions with improved rewards (the beginning of a progression mechanic!)

Finally some reward for killing that jerk (stalker)

 

 

The game is only farming if you aren't enjoying playing it.  But there's no suggestions to improve it above.  Reading into your words, perhaps more lore would help?  More of a storyline?  More of a linear adventure style?  What else?

 

 

Farming is the current endgame of Warframe. I have no troubles with this.

 

 

Farming games? 

 

WoW, Everquest, EVE, CoD, ME3, etc, etc, etc.

 

Every game with a strong RPG component boils down to just farming for better gear to farm for better gear ... If there's something about the veneer or facade of those games that makes you feel like they aren't just farming, then tease it out and tell us.  Maybe it can be applied to Warframe... and we'd all love you for it.

No. No, no, NO. RPGs do not have to be about farm. Farming is a crutch of game design that developers fall back on because its easier to get players hooked with LOOK YOU KILLED 50 GORBLESNORKS HERES YOUR SWORD WITH BIGGER NUMBERS THAN BEFORE than to actually implement fun and engaging game mechanics and level design. 

Warframe is falling into this same crutch. Combat mechanics? They are uninspired and disgustingly dependent stats, so winning is less about being skilled and more about having more health or more damage or stronger abilities. Level design? Corpus spaceships are just corridor after corridor   far too few open areas to fight in.

Warframe does not need new weapons or features. What it needs is an overhaul of the combat mechanics and a drastic increase in the quality of level design (the outside areas have actually been promising on this front; lots of cool open areas to fight in, with a decent amount of verticality... so more of this) so that there is incentive to play beyond just improving your character. The game should also be enjoying just to PLAY. Currently it's an average third person shooter hiding behind one hell of a skinners box.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jingleheimer

Jingleheimer

Posted
Posted

It seems like people are hating on farming on the one hand, and then saying "We don't mind farming, we just want this other stuff, too".

 

I think everyone agrees that the game needs more polish.  Needs more challenge.  Needs more sense of Progression.  Better story/lore.  Better UI everywhere, especially in missions.  Bosses that are interesting.  Rewards that scale with level.

 

But if that's the case you are making, there's no point in hating on farming.  It's the core underneath it all, as it is every RPG.  Just promote the things you like that make the farming pleasant, rewarding, satisfying, and fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MoonicusMaximus

MoonicusMaximus

Posted
Posted

End game or at least a bit of depth to the game?

Lets see...

- Levels that require you to have a bit of thinking instead of just rushing through (by whatever means, including mazes, climbing hazards, movement challenges)

- Actual boss fights that require either team work (due to difficulty) or brains (with non direct damage kills and/or shooting specific parts/combination of parts), instead of just shooting at the direction of the boss which will either one shot you, or look in your direction with a tear in its eye.

- Raids that require more than 4 players

- Difficulty/Level scaling so there is at least SOME merit to the fact that im killing stuff in a level 50+ mission.

- At least SOME fixed drops instead of painting rng onto EVERYTHING (primary example: wave 75 for an uncommon hellfire mod. well ****ing done)

- Maps with a difficulty that require roles and/or team tactics (instead of having 4 solo players with 0 communication on one map)

- Synergy and frame ability combos i.e. mag's bullet attractor and excalibur's radial javelin.

- Lore/collectibles

- Achievements and effort related skins/colors/items/whatever

- Missions that are on par with your maxed/oc gear (in clear text: Hardcore content for those who have already hit the level cap)

- Clan related missions/events

- Some form of competitive mode between clans

- etc

 

If i were to focus only on the question of "end game", then my answer can be summarized in 3 major points:

1. There is no team play nor any form of content that would require you to do so

2. Bosses are worthless and difficulty/reward scaling is completely broken and/or nonexistent

3. Lack of non RNG related items - whether its achievements, fixed drops, fixed wave loot or whatever, having only rng burns your players out

 

Its hard to compare warframe to other MMOs on the market, but there are also generic elements which hold true never the less, such as difficulty, team play, and reason/goal to work towards. Having no difficulty scaling/generally 0 challenge in the game destroys the first and second while rng destroys the third. Its also worth to mention that while RNG will keep your players busy for a lot longer than fixed or higher percentage drops, it will also burn them out a hundred times quicker since they will be doing the same thing over and over again for no form of reward or success. This problem ofc multiplies when its matched up with the fact that difficulty is nonexistent and you can run across maps without firing a single shot.

None of that alleviates your main problem and point to this thread, which is farming. You're asking for an increase in challenging content, which is fine, but attacking farming from this perspective doesnt help your case much. If your woes are actually the farm itself, stick with suggesting alternate ways rather than asking for new content and then being dissatisfied with it because it centers around a common MMO time-extending tactic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Madotsuki

Madotsuki

Posted
Posted

That image....pffffft.

Though back on topic, yeah there's gonna be a ton of grinding again, but that's what you would expect from mmorpgs and other massively multiplayer games similar to Warframe, especially when it's still in beta. Yeah i wish there was less grinding and more content to enjoy with minimal repetitiveness, but that's probably too hard to accomplish for DE right now. They're galaxies away from even perfecting the current content and a lot of new content is screwy, so I'd actually prefer if they spent their time fixing and tweaking current content to make it more enjoyable over focusing on making the game less grindy :/

Link to comment
Share on other sites
EchoLG

EchoLG

Posted
Posted (edited)

What I hate is how this update completely shat upon small groups of friends that joined to play a 4-player co-op game. You basically need to be in a big clan in order to access more than half of this stupid update or work your arses off to build a 3-4 man dojo to research weapons, let alone all the platinum grab stupidity with Formas being rare like Reactors/Catalysts, cause I didn't lose enough sleep already because of idiotic alerts deciding to appear with rare stuff at 5 AM in the morning and then there's those keys which reming me that attrocious ticket exchange thing in FlyFF in order to access the 'cool guys' stages in the game.

Basically, instead of making bosses and gameplay more interesting and engaging, all they did is force players to play how the devs want to and add even more farming to the already vast farming experience that is Warframe.

And you know what? I was here before this game launched Open Beta, I don't care much, I have done most of the farming, I have most of the rare mods that are necessary like multishots for all guns all maxxed and pretty much all mods in the game bar very few that were added recently, I already have many Warframes and even more weapons. I would like to see how this game is gonna attract people with this awful design choice the devs made this time, with many early weapons going Blueprints only and also even more alert farm material to which they don't even have access to.

Definately not happy with this update, I was hyped for it, a lot, and then I get this S#&$. I'm sorry for the profanity, but this is absolutely ridiculous and I can't see how people can pass it up like this.

Edited by EchoLG
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dubignou81

dubignou81

Posted
Posted

Actually, if you don't know the drop rate, it's hard to say that all of this is just for farming. I thought I would never get a void key and I got one after 30 mins of play

 

Furthermore, once we know the drop rate, some things will be harder than other, but hey, without difficulty there would be no fun right ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
EchoLG

EchoLG

Posted
Posted

Actually, if you don't know the drop rate, it's hard to say that all of this is just for farming. I thought I would never get a void key and I got one after 30 mins of play

 

Furthermore, once we know the drop rate, some things will be harder than other, but hey, without difficulty there would be no fun right ?

Difficulty =/= RNG drop rates

That's artificial difficutly, it just makes you think its hard while it actually isn't, it's just horribly luck based.

For all we know you could get 5 keys in 1 hour while someone else is busy raging cause he played a whole week without a drop, hmm, reminds me of those glorious days of the amazing Redirection mod drop rates when U7 launched, good times, good times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aerensiniac

Aerensiniac

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

None of that alleviates your main problem and point to this thread, which is farming. You're asking for an increase in challenging content, which is fine, but attacking farming from this perspective doesnt help your case much. If your woes are actually the farm itself, stick with suggesting alternate ways rather than asking for new content and then being dissatisfied with it because it centers around a common MMO time-extending tactic.

Sorry but if you think the issue is farming in this thread, then you either did not read what i wrote, or you cannot comprehend the issue even tho i spelled it out 3 times already.

How hard is it to gasp the difference between "there is farming" and "there is nothing but farming"?

Cause thats pretty much the problem this thread is about.

 

Its one thing to have farming in a game, and its a completely different thing to have a game that consists about nothing else but farming.

We are not talking about team effort, raids, tactics involved farming like for instance in wow where you raid with 20-40 people, but a completely bare bone devoid of everything crap shooter that lets you walk across even the highest difficulty missions without firing a single shot, is devoid of every form of team play, communication and socializing and puts "rng" everywhere instead of letting its players work towards fix goals.

 

So one last time:

The problem is not that there is farming.

The problem is that there is nothing but farming. Repetitive crap without difficulty, reward scaling, boss fights, team work, communication, socializing, planning, tactics, classes, frame synergy, lore, achievements and a mining truck's worth of other very small, (but at the same time essential) details that would contribute towards the warranty and longlivety of the gameplay.

 

EDIT:

I honestly dont get some people on these forums.

I have sent the OP to 2 of my friends and asked them to read and tell me what it is about. They have had no issues to understand the point of the post, so at present i cant really understand what the issue with 50% of the forum posters is.

Edited by Aerensiniac
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...