Please Increase Melee-Blocking Damage Reduction

[Ryusuta]

Silva and Aegis need to have a significantly increased damage reduction on block. I would have thought this would be a no-brainer, but I guess not.

[ShogunGunshow]

Reflection is a garbage mechanic anyway. Enemy EHP scales up much, much faster than enemy damage. While it's 'okay' at low levels, it does jack diddly later. I was surprised it was even added to Chanblocking, honestly.

[Lushfa]

Reflection does stack with innate channeled blocking....but it sounds like it is draining far too much energu to utilize innate reflection via Channeled Blocking

Maybe if they would add life strike to a channeling block (which would make no sense) it would become a tiny bit useful but as of now, making proper block only possible with channeling makes it pointless. Using a mod slot for Reflection or Reflex Guard becomes pointless if block is pointless. They could have entirely removed blocking mechanic to follow all people that scream dodge, that way we would have gotten at least some some cores out of our now pointlessly leveled Reflex Guard and Reflection mods.

 

If they want to keep blocking in the game (to add a bit more variety) they should make it useful again. Why not add +block% with certain weapons and certain mods (Reflection/ReflexGuard). That way you could make a build viable without buffing any other build.

[----Fenrir----]

They added inaccuracy to the enemies when on the move. If you had ever used parkour in the first place, maybe you would've noticed that while wall running, Heavy Gunners can barely ever hit you.

Or maybe you could see then when you dodge roll, enemies will shoot the floor around you, occasionally hitting you.

 

Do you only play lower level content by any chance? Because if not you should know that their accuracy scales too with increasing level. Zyphyrs "Turbulence" works the same way against hit scan weapons by reducing their accuracy. It's just that once enemies go past a certain level their accuracy becomes so broken that they will hit you anyway and at that level just 1 or 2 hits usually are enough to kill you.

Edited August 2, 2015 by ----Fenrir----

[fatpig84]

I found it infuriating that Sword and Board blocking is among the weakest.

It should be 100% block.

 

IMO if DE fears perma blocking, just make blocking scale with how many hits instead.

Like for example 30 hits solid hits will cause your frame to drop out of blocking animation or a "guard crush" animation.

Where blocking falters and you take some damage.

[StickyBaseline]

I agree, reflex guard is useless now :( And blocking in general, it's just a white flag that says "Come and shoot me and still do 100% while I can't do anything"

[shut]

Marth, you have my respect. And 20 dollars. Don't ask me why I gave you 20 dollars just know that it is yours now.

This... is something I really hate seeing anytime there's a topic concerning blocking and just how bad it is.

"Blocking not working out for you? Too bad you wuss try dodging like us pros do."

If someone complains that Blocking never works out for them, ever, and your only answer is to NOT BLOCK ANYMORE, that doesn't (just) mean that Blocking is the wrong answer. It (also) means THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH BLOCKING MECHANICS.

Blocking is in the game. There's nothing you can do about that. It was added to be a tool INTENDED for Tenno to use. If blocking is so god awful that you can't ever use it ever then there is no point to having it. Either remove it, or improve it. Don't sit there and deny that there's something wrong with it like some smug a-hole just because "you have other options".

God, how stupid is that?

Agreed completely.

The "pros" using the whole "_____ sucks? Just got gud and use something else!" attitude to explain how blocking is totally fine might as well create their own threads explaining how Warm Coat, Intruder, and Melee Prowess are apparently also totally fine.

Yes, we can get by without those mechanics. No, that is not an indication that the mechanics are fine as they are.

Edited August 2, 2015 by SortaRandom

[Kemokkoryuu]

Personally, while it may seem like a step back after removing stamina, I would suggest implementing something similar to another game i've played to balance blocking out.

 

All weapons could block 100% damage but run on a "guard" meter that decreases as you're hit, lighter weapons being able to protect against fewer hits before having their guard broken, heavier weapons and ESPECIALLY anything with a shield having a much larger guardbreak threshold.

 

There should also be some easy visual indicator for guard stability such as perhaps a color changing translucent shield-ish effect in front of you(important that this effect does not obstruct vision in any way though) going from blue to red gradually as the guard meter goes down. If the guard is broken it shouldn't take very long before it is up again, just enough to keep you from just being a mobile cover.

 

Curious what alternative systems or changes other players would consider a good fix for this issue though, DE want to claim melee is viable but being unable to save your butt in a pinch by blocking sure makes me question that idea.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Kemokkoryuu

[shut]

Personally, while it may seem like a step back after removing stamina, I would suggest implementing something similar to another game i've played to balance blocking out.

All weapons could block 100% damage but run on a "guard" meter that decreases as you're hit, lighter weapons being able to protect against fewer hits before having their guard broken, heavier weapons and ESPECIALLY anything with a shield having a much larger guardbreak threshold.

There should also be some easy visual indicator for guard stability such as perhaps a color changing translucent shield-ish effect in front of you(important that this effect does not obstruct vision in any way though) going from blue to red gradually as the guard meter goes down. If the guard is broken it shouldn't take very long before it is up again, just enough to keep you from just being a mobile cover.

Curious what alternative systems or changes other players would consider a good fix for this issue though, DE want to claim melee is viable but being unable to save your butt in a pinch by blocking sure makes me question that idea.

This is pretty much what the stamina system was, though. Minus the clear visual indicators.

Personally, I'd be all for a similar "guard" system where damage dealt to the guard meter does NOT scale with enemy level. So, say, a level 15 Elite Lancer would be able to break the guard in 50 bullets, and a level 99999 Elite Lancer would be able to break the guard in 50 bullets. (Of course, Nullifier bullets and such would deal significantly more damage to the meter than a Lancer's bullet does.)

The problem with the old system was virtually identical to what is wrong with Rhino's Iron Skin-- it's godmode against weak enemies and instantly melts away against higher-leveled enemies. The simplest way to solve this problem is to remove enemy level scaling from the equation.

Edited August 2, 2015 by SortaRandom

[ShogunGunshow]

A guard meter sounds good. I would suggest, though, that lighter weapons, although they would have a lower max threshold, should start to regenerate Guard much faster than heavy weapons when not under fire. This would encourage disruption and hit-and-fade tactics for daggers/sparring weapons, while also making sure they don't become completely inferior to heavy weapons.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Personally, while it may seem like a step back after removing stamina, I would suggest implementing something similar to another game i've played to balance blocking out.

 

All weapons could block 100% damage but run on a "guard" meter that decreases as you're hit, lighter weapons being able to protect against fewer hits before having their guard broken, heavier weapons and ESPECIALLY anything with a shield having a much larger guardbreak threshold.

 

There should also be some easy visual indicator for guard stability such as perhaps a color changing translucent shield-ish effect in front of you(important that this effect does not obstruct vision in any way though) going from blue to red gradually as the guard meter goes down. If the guard is broken it shouldn't take very long before it is up again, just enough to keep you from just being a mobile cover.

 

Curious what alternative systems or changes other players would consider a good fix for this issue though, DE want to claim melee is viable but being unable to save your butt in a pinch by blocking sure makes me question that idea.

  

This is pretty much what the stamina system was, though. Minus the clear visual indicators.

Personally, I'd be all for a similar "guard" system where damage dealt to the guard meter does NOT scale with enemy level. So, say, a level 15 Elite Lancer would be able to break the guard in 50 bullets, and a level 99999 Elite Lancer would be able to break the guard in 50 bullets. (Of course, Nullifier bullets and such would deal significantly more damage to the meter than a Lancer's bullet does.)

The problem with the old system was virtually identical to what is wrong with Rhino's Iron Skin-- it's godmode against weak enemies and instantly melts away against higher-leveled enemies. The simplest way to solve this problem is to remove enemy level scaling from the equation.

The other issue with the old-Stamina block was every dodge/roll and sprint depletes the Guage used for Blocking.

So if you flipped/rolled towards target and went to block, you had nothing to block with.

Which is why people abuse the low-stamina coat slide-attack and directional air-melee

I was under the impression we would be able to hold block while performing new park our for stacking of damage reduction without a need for channeled block.

(That seems to not be the case)

Also hoped they did away with Block drain depending on amount of damage deflected....denies Blocking from being useful later against scaling enemies (was the same way with Stamina block....more damage drained more stamina)

[ShogunGunshow]

Also hoped they did away with Block drain depending on amount of damage deflected....denies Blocking from being useful later against scaling enemies (was the same way with Stamina block....more damage drained more stamina)

 

Unfortunately, at least according to my testing, higher level/damage enemies appear to drain more Energy when Channelblocking. Also the Energy drained is not affected by Channeling Efficiency mods.

 

It's not an exaggeration to say that a single shotgun blast from a high level enemy can cost you over 50 energy to Channelblock.

[XBlackLotusX]

OP:                 yo devs this could use a buff

R comunity:     you want something to work as intended?!?!?! obsurd use another feature instead

S comunity:     maybe they do have a point it is there for a reason....

me:                 once again progress gets halted because of that part of the comunity, you know the part that gos "we dont want working and fun content,we want everyone to use mk 1 bratons with latos and skana's because the games too easy when you have equipment that actualy kills enemys, and anyone who actualy likes stuff that works in combat are filthy casuals and should get on our level".

Edited August 3, 2015 by XBlackLotusX

[SquidTheSid]

Honestly, having 100% DR would be fine. Prior to U17, you couldn't deal any significant damage by blocking, and you were only protected from the front, so blocking wouldn't protect you from being swarmed (which can happen very easily in this game). 

[Nsydian]

Melee blocking should be 100%. End of discussion.

Melee blocking in U17 is useless than ever before in Warframe history

Hell stamina with quick rest + marathon worked infinitely better than this junk

Dodge? Did you guys even tried melee only at T4 void after patch? Yea go back to your shooting

Yep, yep, yep and yep ....

[kleerr2]

Dodging hitscan projectiles... Sure, sure...

The facepalm is strong in this one thread.

 

The level of idiocy you can find in these forums sometimes...

 

 

Just use hard cover. It still works. Parkour 2.0 is just for kicks, not for actual combat vs high level enemies. Aimbots with Godly reflexes and a weapon accuracy scaling that is just as broken as the other scalings the AI uses unfortunately don't give 2 sh!ts about rolling and hopping around.

 

Hey it still looks cool though. And it kinda works at low-to-mid levels. You know, where it's kinda pointless because you don't need it?^^'

So basically "Hide your @ss behind a barrel, U17 is only supposed to make you look cool so dodging and blocking should be pointless" Mmmkay

 

But seriously dodging(rolling) is far more viable than blocking and even gives higher dmg mitigation.+1 for 100% infinite blocking!DE y u do dis?!

[Emeraudes]

So basically "Hide your @ss behind a barrel, U17 is only supposed to make you look cool so dodging and blocking should be pointless" Mmmkay

 

But seriously dodging(rolling) is far more viable than blocking and even gives higher dmg mitigation.+1 for 100% infinite blocking!DE y u do dis?!

 

I believe the intention was to find a balance between infinite stamina and not giving us absolute invulnerability through unlimited blocking.

 

I like the intention, not the execution. Imo, the application should be strictness of the requirements to get you this kind of unlimited frontal invincibility and not the complete removal of it. Honestly, it's already quite strict as you are denied your guns during this act or you need to equip a 10 rank mod for it(which then denies you shooting while blocking).

 

As much as I feel that it's very "ninja" to leap around as you're killing enemies, I would like to see diversity in playstyles. I would also love to have my preferred playstyle back, the kind that does not require me to leap around enemies trying to avoid being shot at just because I like being in their face.

[(PSN)leduanjohan]

Reflex Guard costs 396 rare fusion cores to max; it should provide 100% damage reduction.

[JalakBali]

I can understand that blocking has got to be nerfed since stamina is no longer a factor. But currently the blocking mechanic is just really lacking, so much that it's not worth being in the game. I blocking should work with some simple rules:

 

1. It only works when the enemy is in front of you, like Exalted Blade.

2. Each weapon should have different blocking values, as an extra factor in choosing weapons where some weapons can be more offensive while others more balanced (or it could be based on stances instead of per weapon).

3. There should be mods to increase blocking values.

4. Blocking could reach up to but no more than 95%.

5. Blocking blocks all procs even when damage gets through.

 

Sword and shield should have the highest blocking value. Dual weapons and staves should have the second highest blocking value. Longswords, fists and daggers should have standard blocking value. Heavy weapons and weird weapons should have the lowest value.

[Emeraudes]

I can understand that blocking has got to be nerfed since stamina is no longer a factor. But currently the blocking mechanic is just really lacking, so much that it's not worth being in the game. I blocking should work with some simple rules:

 

1. It only works when the enemy is in front of you, like Exalted Blade.

2. Each weapon should have different blocking values, as an extra factor in choosing weapons where some weapons can be more offensive while others more balanced (or it could be based on stances instead of per weapon).

3. There should be mods to increase blocking values.

4. Blocking could reach up to but no more than 95%.

5. Blocking blocks all procs even when damage gets through.

 

Sword and shield should have the highest blocking value. Dual weapons and staves should have the second highest blocking value. Longswords, fists and daggers should have standard blocking value. Heavy weapons and weird weapons should have the lowest value.

 

I have only concerns about point 4, 5% of the damage dealt by level 60 T4 mobs is still very significant and can easily kill a frame if they come in the numbers that they normally come in. I'd rather the conditions for absolute negation be more strict so that it becomes more a matter of player ability instead of weapon choice.

 

Like how the effectiveness of your melee combat depends more on your personal ability than the weapon itself(mods not withstanding).

[Naftal]

Dodging hitscan projectiles... Sure, sure...

The facepalm is strong in this one thread.

 

The level of idiocy you can find in these forums sometimes...

 

 

Just use hard cover. It still works. Parkour 2.0 is just for kicks, not for actual combat vs high level enemies. Aimbots with Godly reflexes and a weapon accuracy scaling that is just as broken as the other scalings the AI uses unfortunately don't give 2 sh!ts about rolling and hopping around.

 

Hey it still looks cool though. And it kinda works at low-to-mid levels. You know, where it's kinda pointless because you don't need it?^^'

Dodging hitscan was entirely possible in parkour 1.0.

 

Now it's even easier.

 

It's not literally dodging though, it's just moving properly so enemy have crap accuracy.

[Grievous10]

Well I believe it is time for some blocking mods for the utility slot we just got.

Why for example is the mod Reflection or Reflex Guard not an utility mod? Both are kinda bad for the normal warframe slots in my opinion at least.

 

Also don't forget that while blocking you are unable to deal any damage! Most of the time you are trying to close the gap between yourself and for example a heavy gunner. If I walk around with a weapon I could just shoot on the heavy gunner a few times and he's dead but if I use my melee weapon I'm putting myself in danger because I'm

1. in melee

2. melee damage is not as strong as rifle damage

3. while walking towards the heavy gunner I can still be hit by fire from behind and the sides

 

100% damage reduction sounds overpowered but it's not as bad as Trinity's 99,9% damage reduction from blessing. There are so many things in this game that make you incredibly tanky so why can't the Ack & Brunt and Silva & Aegis have 100% damage reduction?

[kleerr2]

Please for lord's sake can sombody explain to me how can frontal only 100% dmg bloking in this game can be considered OP?!Please enlighten me!

[Acidulant]

Please for lord's sake can sombody explain to me how can frontal only 100% dmg bloking in this game can be considered OP?!Please enlighten me!

I don't know, those who make decisions operate on higher level minds than us

I can understand going from finite -> infinite might seem like OP, but if they truly have understanding in melee as of current state, to me, it should be impossible to come up stuff like this.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Acidulant

[ShogunGunshow]

A critical missing piece of the puzzle are the numbers on the new interactions between parkour/movement and enemy accuracy/damage.