Koki_Da_Cookie Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 A bit late to the party man. Cobra and I were already discussing what Sheldon said about the Kubrows in Devstream 59. Please look at the post at the top of this page. Yeah Ive been a bit busy making a irl installation piece of a grineer outpost to install somewhere local :D! But lol thanks xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acidulant Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) A bit late to the party man. Cobra and I were already discussing what Sheldon said about the Kubrows in Devstream 59. Please look at the post at the top of this page.In all honesty, I think they do realize that every thing people said in this thread is true and Chesa Kubrow sucks. Because it really does.But at the same time I have a good educated guess that they are dodging this morbid problem because they can't fix it. I don't think they aren't fixing it because they don't care, but rather unable to fix it due to lack of skill(or engine limitation) in AI scripting dept. Edited September 7, 2015 by Acidulant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koki_Da_Cookie Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 In all honesty, I think they do realize that every thing people said in this thread is true and Chesa Kubrow sucks. Because it really does. But at the same time I have a good educated guess that they are dodging this morbid problem because they can't fix it. I don't think they aren't fixing it because they don't care, but rather unable to fix it due to lack of skill(or engine lmitation) in AI scripting dept. My brother is a game designer and he was thinking of ways to re-work this issue so maybe i should send them his way Lol! My Brother codes alot of things @_@ and were both sadly out of work but hey if we come up with any ideas i'll let yall and the Devs know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Draconis1981 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 it was a real disappointment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Solution: Make any item picked up by the Chesa instantly add to the players inventory (i.e. the Chesa should not have to bring them back to the player). Just give him a little doggie backpack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koki_Da_Cookie Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Solution: Make any item picked up by the Chesa instantly add to the players inventory (i.e. the Chesa should not have to bring them back to the player). Just give him a little doggie backpack. Lol brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low1991 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Didnt read all. How about Chesa as a mobile carrier with higher base shields? ^it's a Kukbrow combined with a carrier which vacuum nearby mods/ammo/item as it pass by, whatever pickup is instantly given to player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen.KiTeer Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Lol brilliant! That is not chesa's only problem though. The AI pathing is really bad atm. Also many times i see my chesa running non-stop instead of walking leading to it getting stuck or running in circles because it cant make a proper turn around an obstacle. Then the way the whole pickup mechanic is working is bad. it does exactly what all other companions do with abilities: it activates them. For chesa that means: it will run past loot ignoring it because the ability is not triggered. A fix would be that chesa's retrieve is active all the time. if it runs somewhere and there is loot on its way, it automatically picks it up with small vacuum and keeps it in its mouth while also actively looking for loot on the ground in a certain radius. after a certain amount of time passed or a number of items collected it should return to you and not lose the loot on the way back. That and not getting stuck on every possible occasion would really improve chesa and make it even a competitor for carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low1991 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 A fix would be that chesa's retrieve is active all the time. if it runs somewhere and there is loot on its way, it automatically picks it up with small vacuum and keeps it in its mouth while also actively looking for loot on the ground in a certain radius. after a certain amount of time passed or a number of items collected it should return to you and not lose the loot on the way back. That and not getting stuck on every possible occasion would really improve chesa and make it even a competitor for carrier. you mean this? V Didnt read all. How about Chesa as a mobile carrier with higher base shields? ^it's a Kukbrow combined with a carrier which vacuum nearby mods/ammo/item as it pass by, whatever pickup is instantly given to player. Hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen.KiTeer Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) you mean this? V Hehe. your solution is similar and would sure work aswell. Still the AI pathing needs fixing, for all kubrows.. but chesa really stands out bc of how it works. Edited September 7, 2015 by CruelMaiden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookedtoast Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) I rather not have that pack leader idea they came up with on the last devstream. As someone said before you need to hope other people in your party will be using a kubrow but guess what! A good amount of people think kubrows are pretty useless. ( I mean I don't blame them) I would rather be able to use 2 kubrows. (with a quest or collar upgrade) This is including all the other fixes like Ai fixes and the works. Edited September 8, 2015 by Cookedtoast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Bowjangelz Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 What good would adding a pack consumable be when there are still major issues kubrows still have with AI? I can see it now, someone uses the consumable and all the kubrows go crazy, running wildly in place as they are stuck under a staircase. GG. It seems to me that the unaddressed issues with the Chesa, as several have said, probably comes down to either an unwillingness to take the time fixing the code or someone is not yet sure how to do it. Either way, I wish they would come out and say they do realize the pathing and AI has issues and let us know if there are any plans to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low1991 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 your solution is similar and would sure work aswell. Still the AI pathing needs fixing, for all kubrows.. but chesa really stands out bc of how it works. How about, Make Chesa Kubrow to no-clip into obstacle but still follows the normal (floor) terrain? And while at that, where Chesa is seem wondering around doing it's own business. There's should be a max distance from player to kubrow, exceeding this will instantly teleport kubrow back to player when the loot (4got the name) is active. And While at this kubrow thingy, can we have a gear to revive dead kubrow/sentinels? (like frame' life which requires 1 to 3 days to craft?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookedtoast Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 How about, Make Chesa Kubrow to no-clip into obstacle but still follows the normal (floor) terrain? And while at that, where Chesa is seem wondering around doing it's own business. There's should be a max distance from player to kubrow, exceeding this will instantly teleport kubrow back to player when the loot (4got the name) is active. And While at this kubrow thingy, can we have a gear to revive dead kubrow/sentinels? (like frame' life which requires 1 to 3 days to craft?) Maybe for sentinels , most of the time it's not that big of deal and it never gets to the point where I can't revive my kubrow. The only mission I really have an issue with reviving a kubrow would be the raid. I still want to be able to use two kubrows :(.(also give buffs depending what combo you're using) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebreccer Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I don't like the idea of using two Kubrows. I rather just see a fully working AI for the Kubrows and an overhaul to the Chesa's ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karamethien Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 The only change I need them to make is to have the Chesa makes a straight line to Rare Mods and Syndicate Insignias (like Sunkia does to VIPs) That is all the fix I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltygr33n Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) With the vacuum on its behind or below? Yeeeeaaaaah... Maybe the front; on top? Yowza! It's gotta be an android kubrow! Edited September 9, 2015 by saltygr33n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IggySnow Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Just make it add ammo, health, and energy directly to your inventory, while actually picking up mods and resources, increase the cap of items it holds to 5-7. Boom it's useful. And let us actually tell all kubrows what we want to do with it using the wheel thing we have to choose emots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra302 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Updated 9/9/15 Existing Chesa Issues: - items retrieved per trip capped at 3 - pathing - prioritization of items to be retrieved - delay in retrieved items being conveyed to owner - items retrieved often dropped far from owner or during return to owner due to collision with objects or terrain - some retrieved items never conveyed to owner due to Chesa's inability to physically keep up with owner, upon teleport to owner items has lost - kubrow general issue, inability to restrict or prioritize kubrow to certain tasks via mod equipping to specific slots, that is to say the sentinels have attack precept mod, kubrows do not == Historical Timeline == 7/31/2015 Update 17: Echoes of the Sentient Chesa kubrow is first introduced and only picks up one drop at a time. 8/1/2015 This thread is created, among others, expressing frustration at how different the Chesa functionality is from what players wanted and what DE implied would be delivered. I.E. A viable alternative to King Carrier. 8/2/2015 DE Steve is asked about if the Chesa was intended to be comparable to carrier on his Twitter and he states. "that is the goal sorta, needs some improvements" 8/4/2015 DE Steve is asked again about the Chesa's functionality on his Twitter and he states. "We've already admitted/planned to improve... not sure why a half dozen tweets about it is needed." 8/6/2015 Update 17.0.4 Patch Notes: "The Chesa Kubrow’s Retrieve ability will now grab multiple items at once." (Yup, mine picks up the huge amount of like 3 items at one time now.) 8/7/2015 Update 17.0.5 No Chesa fix. 8/12/2015 Updates 17.1.0-17.1.4 No Chesa fix. 8/13/2015 Prime Time #83 (time code 50:47) https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/510537-thanks-for-watching-prime-time-83/#entry5700359 DE Sheldon states: "Hey, there is a fix almost ready for Chesa. I was gonna say I tested it today. Chesa will go around and pickup all kinds of stuff before she comes back to you." 8/14/2015 Update 17.1.5 No Chesa fix. 8/19/2015 Update 17.2 No Chesa fix. 8/20/2015 Update 17.2.1 No Chesa fix. 8/21/2015 Update 17.2.2 No Chesa fix. 8/24/2015 Update 17.2.3 No Chesa fix. 8/26/2015 Update 17.2.4 Patch Notes: "Fixed some inconsistencies with Chesa retrieval behaviour on items that are in areas that have already been retrieved. More fixes will be rolled out as we continue to address polish items." 8/27/2015 Update 17.2.5 No Chesa fix. 8/28/2015 Update 17.2.6 No Chesa fix. 8/28/2015 Community Hot Topics https://forums.warfr...s/#entry5807302 "Chesa and other Companions We’ve discussed companions in previous Community Hot Topics, but this topic is specific to quality-of-life improvements that could make existing companions more desirable. Kubrows often come under scrutiny due to their required maintenance, and Chesa has garnered criticism because of the limitations of their Retrieve ability. Chesa’s utility is ultimately a reflection of Carrier’s vacuum, so do you think that homogenization of companion abilities is the best way to increase their value, or do you think there are ways to make each companion unique and desirable? If so, how? Is increasing Chesa’s Retrieve ability sufficient? What would you add or change to make other companions more useful? How often do you change your companions currently? Is there a change that would encourage you to diversify? Post your thoughts and ideas in this thread!" 9/2/2015 Update 17.3 No Chesa fix. 9/4/2015 Update 17.3.1 No Chesa fix. 9/4/2015 Devstream #59 (time code ~ 8:47) https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/522963-thanks-for-watching-devstream-59/#entry5854142 DE Rebecca attempted to obtain clarification from DE Sheldon on the Carrier Vacuum debate but only in brief passing mentioned the word Chesa. When the discussion transitioned to Kubrows the Chesa topic was avoided and instead DE Sheldon discussed "Pack Tactics", which appeared to be a distraction to properly responding to the core issue and player comments that have been posted regarding the Chesa. 9/9/2015 Update 17.4.0 No Chesa fix. Edited September 10, 2015 by cobra302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraccoDoom Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Ah yes, Chesa work like a charm.... NOT My loadout, retrieve is first in line But what this mean in game? Nothing, absolutely nothing. I was at zero rifle ammo, then zero pistol ammo and lower then max energy but did Chasa move to retrieve some ammo, energy or even a mod that I saw ?? Nope. Working as intended (DE) :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickZero Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Ah yes, Chesa work like a charm.... NOT -snip- But what this mean in game? Nothing, absolutely nothing. I was at zero rifle ammo, then zero pistol ammo and lower then max energy but did Chasa move to retrieve some ammo, energy or even a mod that I saw ?? Nope. Working as intended (DE) :P -snip media- That's a common issue with all kubrows and that's why people have been begging for better AI since release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverlordMcGeek Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 That's a common issue with all kubrows and that's why people have been begging for better AI since release. Actually with what he mentioned on getting what was needed the Sahasa does this superbly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebreccer Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) That's a common issue with all kubrows and that's why people have been begging for better AI since release. Indeed. I really, really hope that they will be rolling a major Kubrow AI improvement soon. I can't see them release the Catbrows when the fluffy AI is so horrible. Also just got my first Chesa today and I was testing it out. Really disappointed with the Retrieve ability, it could be so magnificent, but no it's just a horrible mess. I like how aggressive the Chesa is though with the disarming people. I could watch him disarm several enemies in a row. But yeah first of all the pathfinding for Kubrows is horrible, this makes the Chesa's Retrieve even more useless. Also if you are a really active player (like I am) there is simply no way the Chesa (or any other Kubrow for that matter) can keep up with me. What's the point in bullet jumping and all that if our Kubrows are acting like braindead turtles? Please make Kubrow AI and parkour 2.0. I don't care how funny it looks, I just want my Kubrow to just keep with my speed and manouvers all the time like Sentinels. Chesa should really store all the items it passes by/collects and keep doing the disarming at the same time. Then it could periodically visit its master to unload the loot. Also items picked by the Chesa should ONLY affect the master's items, not everyone on the same mission. Also another idea would be to have Chesa instantly pick up items and give them to owner remotely. To me Chesa feels more like a disarmer Kubrow than a retriever. Perhaps change its role and give the Retrieve ability to all Kubrows? DE please, show some love for your amazing Kubrows and give them the AI upgrade they really crave for. Edited September 10, 2015 by Judqment8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra302 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Updated 9/11/15 Existing Chesa Issues: - items retrieved per trip capped at 3 - pathing - prioritization of items to be retrieved - delay in retrieved items being conveyed to owner - items retrieved often dropped far from owner or during return to owner due to collision with objects or terrain - some retrieved items never conveyed to owner due to Chesa's inability to physically keep up with owner, upon teleport to owner items has lost - kubrow general issue, inability to restrict or prioritize kubrow to certain tasks via mod equipping to specific slots, that is to say the sentinels have attack precept mod, kubrows do not == Historical Timeline == 7/31/2015 Update 17: Echoes of the Sentient Chesa kubrow is first introduced and only picks up one drop at a time. 8/1/2015 This thread is created, among others, expressing frustration at how different the Chesa functionality is from what players wanted and what DE implied would be delivered. I.E. A viable alternative to King Carrier. 8/2/2015 DE Steve is asked about if the Chesa was intended to be comparable to carrier on his Twitter and he states. "that is the goal sorta, needs some improvements" 8/4/2015 DE Steve is asked again about the Chesa's functionality on his Twitter and he states. "We've already admitted/planned to improve... not sure why a half dozen tweets about it is needed." 8/6/2015 Update 17.0.4 Patch Notes: "The Chesa Kubrow’s Retrieve ability will now grab multiple items at once." (Yup, mine picks up the huge amount of like 3 items at one time now.) 8/7/2015 Update 17.0.5 No Chesa fix. 8/12/2015 Updates 17.1.0-17.1.4 No Chesa fix. 8/13/2015 Prime Time #83 (time code 50:47) https://forums.warfr...3/#entry5700359 DE Sheldon states: "Hey, there is a fix almost ready for Chesa. I was gonna say I tested it today. Chesa will go around and pickup all kinds of stuff before she comes back to you." 8/14/2015 Update 17.1.5 No Chesa fix. 8/19/2015 Update 17.2 No Chesa fix. 8/20/2015 Update 17.2.1 No Chesa fix. 8/21/2015 Update 17.2.2 No Chesa fix. 8/24/2015 Update 17.2.3 No Chesa fix. 8/26/2015 Update 17.2.4 Patch Notes: "Fixed some inconsistencies with Chesa retrieval behaviour on items that are in areas that have already been retrieved. More fixes will be rolled out as we continue to address polish items." 8/27/2015 Update 17.2.5 No Chesa fix. 8/28/2015 Update 17.2.6 No Chesa fix. 8/28/2015 Community Hot Topics https://forums.warfr...s/#entry5807302 "Chesa and other Companions We’ve discussed companions in previous Community Hot Topics, but this topic is specific to quality-of-life improvements that could make existing companions more desirable. Kubrows often come under scrutiny due to their required maintenance, and Chesa has garnered criticism because of the limitations of their Retrieve ability. Chesa’s utility is ultimately a reflection of Carrier’s vacuum, so do you think that homogenization of companion abilities is the best way to increase their value, or do you think there are ways to make each companion unique and desirable? If so, how? Is increasing Chesa’s Retrieve ability sufficient? What would you add or change to make other companions more useful? How often do you change your companions currently? Is there a change that would encourage you to diversify? Post your thoughts and ideas in this thread!" 9/2/2015 Update 17.3 No Chesa fix. 9/4/2015 Update 17.3.1 No Chesa fix. 9/4/2015 Devstream #59 (time code ~ 8:47) https://forums.warfr...9/#entry5854142 DE Rebecca attempted to obtain clarification from DE Sheldon on the Carrier Vacuum debate but only in brief passing mentioned the word Chesa. When the discussion transitioned to Kubrows the Chesa topic was avoided and instead DE Sheldon discussed "Pack Tactics", which appeared to be a distraction to properly responding to the core issue and player comments that have been posted regarding the Chesa. 9/9/2015 Update 17.4.0 No Chesa fix. 9/10/2015 Update 17.4.1 No Chesa fix. 9/11/2015 Update 17.4.2 No Chesa fix. Edited September 11, 2015 by cobra302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebreccer Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Thanks cobra302 for keeping it up to date. I will bump this topic too if it somehow gets forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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