Law_Abiding_Engineer Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 yeah it really needs tweaking because the idea that I got from the livstream, was that you ahd to be in a clan. Ok, no big deal, but how big of a clan do you have to be in? based off things now, it sounds like you have to be in a large clan. What about small clans or medium clans? I don't care if it takes a bit more time like couple more days or weeks, but it will take months to build things and even after a eyar, I dont see myself and my small clan, being able to build everything that is build able. It really isnt fair that they made it so that you really have to join a LARGE clan. I like the idea of the dojo but it really gives the benefit to the largest clan. And in theory, what if it ends up that there are only two or three large clans? If you arent in either clan, then you are absically on your own. And who wants to join a small clan at that point, when you can join a ultra large clan and leech the rewards without having to do a damn thing to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aigloblam Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 So visually remind them they are inadequate just cause they want to be small? Excellent point. But in all honesty, Id take the cardboard box to get the Dueling room and Research Lab. As long as it was possible for us to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanChief1170 Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Well, there's more than one way to scale things. For instance, they could create basic versions of labs that allow access to the new content, but don't look as cool, take longer to function, etc. The larger clans will want, and will achieve, the best of the best (the bat cave) and the smaller clans will eke out research in the equivalent of a cardboard box with a junior chemistry set,but at least we could still access the content. That is a pretty good idea. or you could make it so that there are tiers of the lab, so we could build the lowest tier easily but higher tiers are harder to get but provide greater benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aigloblam Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 yeah it really needs tweaking because the idea that I got from the livstream, was that you ahd to be in a clan. Ok, no big deal, but how big of a clan do you have to be in? based off things now, it sounds like you have to be in a large clan. What about small clans or medium clans? I don't care if it takes a bit more time like couple more days or weeks, but it will take months to build things and even after a eyar, I dont see myself and my small clan, being able to build everything that is build able. It really isnt fair that they made it so that you really have to join a LARGE clan. I like the idea of the dojo but it really gives the benefit to the largest clan. And in theory, what if it ends up that there are only two or three large clans? If you arent in either clan, then you are absically on your own. And who wants to join a small clan at that point, when you can join a ultra large clan and leech the rewards without having to do a damn thing to help. Yeah, Large clans are almost as much of a problem as small ones when you think about it. Because if there are 500 people in a clan, You could leech off them all you wanted and nobody would ever notice that you do NOTHING for the clan. In a smaller clan, Everybody can easily see who contributes and who doesnt. The thought of there only being two or three clans is pretty saddening actually....It would make perfect sense for people to do it, but Now that i realize how possible that is, The future for Clans in general isn't looking too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced- Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Extremely good idea. You are right that it isnt as satisfying...but at least it gets it done. Ok then totally ignore the credit cost...How about the 15k Alloy Plate? Or the 30k Rubedo? Granted thats the most expensive one, but its still nigh impossible for 10 people to do it in less than 2 months of solid grinding. All we want is the Research room and the Dueling room...but to get that we are going to need: 75k credits 65k Salvage 35k Ferrite 120k Nano Spores 10 Forma Thats just for the Dueling room...To get that you need to build support rooms to get more capacity and energy. That doesn't seem absolutely insane to you for a small clan to get? Really easy actually. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/50102-dojo-room-prices-are-fine-for-actual-clans/ You seem like you don't understand the concept of everyone contributing and how easy it is for 10 members to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCanadian24 Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Yeah, Large clans are almost as much of a problem as small ones when you think about it. Because if there are 500 people in a clan, You could leech off them all you wanted and nobody would ever notice that you do NOTHING for the clan. In a smaller clan, Everybody can easily see who contributes and who doesnt. The thought of there only being two or three clans is pretty saddening actually....It would make perfect sense for people to do it, but Now that i realize how possible that is, The future for Clans in general isn't looking too good. TBH I think clans should actually be limited in size to prevent reward leeching, but that's for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIRROR_ell Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I agree and disagree at the same time. Agree - While it is possible to get free "Forma" from alerts, it will not be sufficient for small clans to meet the requirements of most buildings due to the sheer required number of it, not to mention the fact that Formas are used for re-polarizing weapons or warframes. This forces clans to have at least one platinum buying member, and it would be more taxing for smaller clans to pool together for these "not-so-free" materials. This makes people prefer larger clans as it requires them to do less work and less contributions, which is somewhat distasteful in itself. Not to mention the "monopoly" of larger clans of people and such. Disagree - If you run a clan with a small number of people, it may not be as easy to pool resources for builds, but it can be done nonetheless.Resource cost is mostly the issue as it doesn't "regenerate" as fast as 10k per run like credits do, but small insertions can be done especially concerning low quality mats. In the case of "Formas," it's already been stated in Design Council that buildings require too much of it, and hopefully devs will try to look into the issue. However, people have to understand that the "Forma limit" is an incentive to buy platinum which serves as the income of this game, OR if no platinum would be purchased, prolongs the game's life as players will try to find free Formas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law_Abiding_Engineer Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) Yeah, Large clans are almost as much of a problem as small ones when you think about it. Because if there are 500 people in a clan, You could leech off them all you wanted and nobody would ever notice that you do NOTHING for the clan. In a smaller clan, Everybody can easily see who contributes and who doesnt. The thought of there only being two or three clans is pretty saddening actually....It would make perfect sense for people to do it, but Now that i realize how possible that is, The future for Clans in general isn't looking too good. yeah, the future outlook is kinda hazy if things go this way. Like i said ebfore, if large clans start to get so large to a point where no one can competite with them, then there will be a few clans that basically are worth joining. I remember in one of my old MMORPGs that it was simple when it started out with like a dozen guilds and making your own, was costly, but once established, it was easy to run (for the most part). however, certain big money spenders began to rack up the top items and stuff and soon they would make guilds that people flocked to inorder to get the rewards from those players who did hard work. Eventually, the guilds were prety much limited to just 3 main guilds and one small, yet decent in ability, guld. And before it was closed down, it ended up being just two guilds, and it sucked because if you didnt join a guild, you were killed and camped, if you didn't join one of those two guilds, you were killed and camped. So, bringing it all back to warframe, if this slow but steady trend continues, then soon, you will have mega clans that no one really knows that many, if any, people and lots of them will just "use" the clan for thier own benefit and if they get ranked up, then they just might steal the resoruces, and leave. Atleast with small clans, people seem to know each other more and are more likely to work better together and everyone helps. Edited May 24, 2013 by Law_Abiding_Engineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostWolf Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) I think the said truth is a lot of the small clans are simply gonna give up and join big ones to have access to the Research but most likely maintain a personal friend list/squad. -an unofficial clan- or you'll get Lone wolfs who join the clan for the BPS get the weapons and run. Edited May 24, 2013 by FrostWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aigloblam Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Really easy actually. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/50102-dojo-room-prices-are-fine-for-actual-clans/ You seem like you don't understand the concept of everyone contributing and how easy it is for 10 members to achieve. Think of 15k alloy as 1.5k per member for a 10 member clan I don't know where the hell you have been running, But that much plate takes me 5 days, grinding 5-7 hours per day. Also, I said our clan was 10 members....Which is true, but 2 of us run constantly, 2 more run less than an eighth as much as us, the rest have ran maybe 3 missions with us. So we have a pretty shltty clan, but its OUR clan. If we have to join some huge conglomeration to get anything done... well Im simply not going to do it. I don't want Nameless players, I want a group of people i know and enjoy playing the game with. I dont think thats such a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisguidedGT Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Excellent point. But in all honesty, Id take the cardboard box to get the Dueling room and Research Lab. As long as it was possible for us to get. That is a pretty good idea. or you could make it so that there are tiers of the lab, so we could build the lowest tier easily but higher tiers are harder to get but provide greater benefit. I think it could be implemented in such a way that clans of all sizes are rewarded for their hard work. I started Clan Destin yesterday. It has three people in it. I don't expect to have a massive guild hall or a dojo that can compete with what a large guild will have, but being able to pool our resources and work toward various goals as a group would be a lot of fun, even if it takes a bit longer, and isn't as shiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningVanities Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 This was definitely communicated in advance that the dojo wold allow you to research new weapons, although i do think that the there needs be a some sort of scaling with how large your clan is, other wise smaller clans get screwed I agree - I'm in a small clan of friends - roughly 10 people, and would like to see some scaling. We never really intended to grow much beyond this size, but it's disheartening to see that we won't have access to some of the cooler weapons. Maybe some system to lock your clan size and have to pay a set pecentage to upgrade it and all the rooms before more people can join? That way you wouldn't be able to create a small clan and build rooms at a low cost and just invite more people. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced- Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Think of 15k alloy as 1.5k per member for a 10 member clan I don't know where the hell you have been running, But that much plate takes me 5 days, grinding 5-7 hours per day. Also, I said our clan was 10 members....Which is true, but 2 of us run constantly, 2 more run less than an eighth as much as us, the rest have ran maybe 3 missions with us. So we have a pretty shltty clan, but its OUR clan. If we have to join some huge conglomeration to get anything done... well Im simply not going to do it. I don't want Nameless players, I want a group of people i know and enjoy playing the game with. I dont think thats such a bad thing. You realize you get up to 80 alloy from 1 drop now right? Have you even played the update? 5 alloy drops could be 400 alloy right There. If that takes you days.... I dont know what to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningVanities Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Well, there's more than one way to scale things. For instance, they could create basic versions of labs that allow access to the new content, but don't look as cool, take longer to function, etc. The larger clans will want, and will achieve, the best of the best (the bat cave) and the smaller clans will eke out research in the equivalent of a cardboard box with a junior chemistry set,but at least we could still access the content. I think this is a great idea, it lets smaller clans still get content access but at a possibly slower speed and less flare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobi_no_Kami Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 then how about the one man clan, maybe they should scale everything on my one man dojo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aigloblam Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) You realize you get up to 80 alloy from 1 drop now right? Have you even played the update? 5 alloy drops could be 400 alloy right There. If that takes you days.... I dont know what to say. I've played 30+ runs on U8, and have a grand total of 370 Alloy Plate. Each of those runs have been for the sole purpose of Alloy Plate or Rubedo, So no speed runs. 370/1.5k = 0.246 So that means another 90 runs? So in other words, its possible if you get insanely lucky and get huge drops, which i havn't. Edited May 24, 2013 by Aigloblam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced- Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I've played 30+ runs on U8, and have a grand total of 370 Alloy Plate. 370/1.5k = 0.246 So that means another 90 runs? So in other words, its possible if you get insanely lucky and get huge drops, which i havn't. Were you doing maps with alloy plates? Because we ran Pluto for an hour and got 500+ It's possible YOU got unlucky just as much it is that we got lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakim0n0 Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 30+ runs for alloy plate and you have 370?I just ran a Kieste and got about 400ONE run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law_Abiding_Engineer Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) Think of 15k alloy as 1.5k per member for a 10 member clan I don't know where the hell you have been running, But that much plate takes me 5 days, grinding 5-7 hours per day. Also, I said our clan was 10 members....Which is true, but 2 of us run constantly, 2 more run less than an eighth as much as us, the rest have ran maybe 3 missions with us. So we have a pretty shltty clan, but its OUR clan. If we have to join some huge conglomeration to get anything done... well Im simply not going to do it. I don't want Nameless players, I want a group of people i know and enjoy playing the game with. I dont think thats such a bad thing. Ewwwww, grinding the same type of maps for 7 hours a day for 5 days a week? I don't think i can do that, I have a job you know and although college is off til autum, there is no way I can spend that amny hours per a day, doing the same thing, over, and over, ust to get some precious resource. I guess thats where the line between casual gaming and extreme gaming is drawn. You realize you get up to 80 alloy from 1 drop now right? Have you even played the update? 5 alloy drops could be 400 alloy right There. If that takes you days.... I dont know what to say. Whoa, 80 plates per a drop? Where are you getting that? On a typical run, alloy paltes drop in stacks of about 20 to 40 or so, max. I have never seen plates stack up that high, unless they just happened to have increased the amounts of plates per drop. EDIT:Hmmmm, sounds like some are getting higher drops. What planet and mission are you doing to get these record highs? I swear, ebfore the 8.0 update, alloy plates never dropped in stacks that high. Edited May 24, 2013 by Law_Abiding_Engineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakim0n0 Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Engineer, have you been playing since u8? They massively increased alloy plate drop rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced- Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Ewwwww, grinding the same type of maps for 7 hours a day for 5 days a week? I don't think i can do that, I have a job you know and although college is off til autum, there is no way I can spend that amny hours per a day, doing the same thing, over, and over, ust to get some precious resource. I guess thats where the line between casual gaming and extreme gaming is drawn. Whoa, 80 plates per a drop? Where are you getting that? On a typical run, alloy paltes drop in stacks of about 20 to 40 or so, max. I have never seen plates stack up that high, unless they just happened to have increased the amounts of plates per drop. They stated in the patch notes they did. And it was Pluto missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law_Abiding_Engineer Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Yes I have played this update 8.0 version but I wasn't farming anything, just doing regular runs and thats good about the increase in alloy plates. Ill try Pluto sometime. Too busy tryin to level up two warframes and a melee weapon lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarKnight Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 They should limited the size of each clan to be fair. 1000 member each donate 10 Alloy = 10000... While a 100 member each need to donate 100 Alloy to have 10000..Shouldn't there is a Clan member limit to about max 100 members to each Clan?If not why not just create a Kingdom not a clan. Than everyone just join 1 kingdom and they just need to donate 1 resource..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law_Abiding_Engineer Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 They should limited the size of each clan to be fair. 1000 member each donate 10 Alloy = 10000... While a 100 member each need to donate 100 Alloy to have 10000.. Shouldn't there is a Clan member limit to about max 100 members to each Clan? If not why not just create a Kingdom not a clan. Than everyone just join 1 kingdom and they just need to donate 1 resource..... Give it time and eventually there will be only a few Ultra Clans, but at that point, it doesnt matter what goes on in the clan. Just as long as no one spams stuff, anyone can join and they can get their stuff and not care about doing anything to help others lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aigloblam Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) Were you doing maps with alloy plates? Because we ran Pluto for an hour and got 500+ It's possible YOU got unlucky just as much it is that we got lucky. Yes, every one had alloy plate...In fact that was the whole reason for running them. Also I just ran Charon, Minthe, and Hydra....and from all of them together i got 95 alloy plate. I could chalk it up to me being Unlucky....but that unlucky in 3 consecutive runs? Im not sure how one person could be this unlucky. To add to the anger, I've been looking for Banshee's helmet for the past 400+ runs, i have ran so many of the missions that have a chance to drop her parts its not even funny. I have 28 Chassis and 35 Systems, no helmet. After that many, especially considering how many of those were to wave 15 in defense missions, i've given up on her. EDIT: Ok now after 2 runs on Nuovo (Ceres), i have 511 AP total...So 141 from two runs isnt nearly as bad as i've been doing. Still no 400 per run, but hey, its progress. Edited May 24, 2013 by Aigloblam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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