Dojo Research - "forced" Into A Large Clan

[Aigloblam]

After playing 300+ hours, I'll admit that I still only have the Banshee Systems, and I've never received the other two parts.

On the other hand, most of the time up until now I've been playing solo, so it's quite likely that with the planned games my friends and I will be having, I'll probably get them as a side bonus of farming Void Keys. So, I look at it as one solution that fits several issues.

I wish it worked out that way. I very seldom play by myself, so all those runs have been with members of my clan, and yet still no helmet. Having to use Void keys to farm is basically Farming to Have the chance to farm, all for the experience of farming. I dont see any reward in that cycle. When things were new, it was simple...Farm, Build, Advance. Now that Advance and Build have been taken out of the picture realistically...its just Farm.

[someguy216]

Well i think originally the idea of a "clan" was it to be relativley large as clans in real life are wrather large not just 1-5 people. But then again as many have already said the dojo thing is still large clan based as in only clans with 50+ have any hope of making anything.

[TheChaffeemancer]

So... you test it based on items of a similar nature that you do know about, and adjust the methodology as needed. I'm still not seeing the problem here.

 

But that's a faulty methodology. That's like estimating how frequently it snows in an area based on how much it rains in the summer. You don't even know what the variables are. You can't adjust for things that you don't even know of. It's also ignoring that drop rates amongst various items will not be equal.

 

After playing 300+ hours, I'll admit that I still only have the Banshee Systems, and I've never received the other two parts.

On the other hand, most of the time up until now I've been playing solo, so it's quite likely that with the planned games my friends and I will be having, I'll probably get them as a side bonus of farming Void Keys. So, I look at it as one solution that fits several issues.

 

Playing solo does not affect drop rates. Don't know if void missions give the same reward to everyone. or not but it won't be like rolling a dice 4 times, it's rolling one dice and multiplying the results by 4.

 

 

I am not looking down on you. I was only saying you will not get sympathy from me on patience, or what you feel is unfair in regard to grinding.

Even if I disagree with someone, I never look down on them, we are all equal.

 

Saying people are whining and QQ is treating them as equals? If you were going to treat him as an actual equal you would have said "I think it's fine, but it's ok if you think it's unfair." Instead you said people were whining.

[.Monarch]

How are 10 people sopposted to get 1 mill?

100k a person. Considering alerts give.up to 15k alone.... its not hard At all. Take 1 day off from building guns and instead use those Resources for The clan.

10 people is all you really need. If everyone contributes its easily done.

 

If everyone contributes...I'm sure you have a clan yes? I too have a clan, size of 130. Daily active members 30. Core members that are actually involved with clan 10. Members that are able to contribute 5. 

 

This isn't individual clan's problem. Face it, Unless that 10 people are all your brothers and sisters, having all 10 of them to selflessly contribute? Sure, let me know when Latron Prime Receiver drop rate raise above 0.05%.

[Aigloblam]

If everyone contributes...I'm sure you have a clan yes? I too have a clan, size of 130. Daily active members 30. Core members that are actually involved with clan 10. Members that are able to contribute 5. 

 

This isn't individual clan's problem. Face it, Unless that 10 people are all your brothers and sisters, having all 10 of them to selflessly contribute? Sure, let me know when Latron Prime Receiver drop rate raise above 0.05%.

Absolutely do have a clan. Size of 10. Daily active Members: 2, Core members that are actually involved with the clan: 2, Members able to contribute: again..2

Yeah we can do it eventually, thats not the only problem though.

[Second_Measure]

Isn't it always like that where smaller clans/guilds are behind the bigger ones regarding progression of various kinds ?

 

Smaller clans/guilds are more tightly knitted and things are easier to look over than the 150+ ones. But having a smaller group comes with the price of progression and rewards. Sure, they might reach their goal one way or another, but in order to get the most progress at the smallest time you need you join the bigger ones and pool your resources just like everyone else there.

 

Me ? I am in a clan with 4 active people and have a Dojo. Sure, it will take time to expand our place, but we certainly don't make a fuzz about it.

We can always leave and join up a other clan if we want to (even if that means we need to re-build the key again).

[Aigloblam]

Isn't it always like that where smaller clans/guilds are behind the bigger ones regarding progression of various kinds ?

 

Smaller clans/guilds are more tightly knitted and things are easier to look over than the 150+ ones. But having a smaller group comes with the price of progression and rewards. Sure, they might reach their goal one way or another, but in order to get the most progress at the smallest time you need you join the bigger ones and pool your resources just like everyone else there.

 

Me ? I am in a clan with 4 active people and have a Dojo. Sure, it will take time to expand our place, but we certainly don't make a fuzz about it.

We can always leave and join up a other clan if we want to (even if that means we need to re-build the key again).

But thats saying its ok because its always been that way......

[Nod_Off]

Saying people are whining and QQ is treating them as equals? If you were going to treat him as an actual equal you would have said "I think it's fine, but it's ok if you think it's unfair." Instead you said people were whining.

Sure is, if people can not get their ideas across in a mature, tactful way, they are whining. If I were to whine I would not get upset that someone calls me out for it.

Give feedback, not emotionally charged, whiny posts. Not saying you are doing that specifically, but there are tons on the forums.

THERE IS A FEEDBACK SECTION FOR THIS.

End.

[Bakim0n0]

THERE IS A FEEDBACK SECTION FOR THIS.

End.

Thank you!

General discussion has become 90% feedback posts. Seriously guys.

[Zyxess]

Isn't it always like that where smaller clans/guilds are behind the bigger ones regarding progression of various kinds ?

No.

 

Sure is, if people can not get their ideas across in a mature, tactful way, they are whining. If I were to whine I would not get upset that someone calls me out for it.

Give feedback, not emotionally charged, whiny posts. Not saying you are doing that specifically, but there are tons on the forums.

THERE IS A FEEDBACK SECTION FOR THIS.

End.

I looked at the feedback section, I didn't feel like dojo research specifically fit into either of the available subsections. Feel free to poke a mod if you think the OP belongs in one of them.

[rhoenix]

But that's a faulty methodology. That's like estimating how frequently it snows in an area based on how much it rains in the summer. You don't even know what the variables are. You can't adjust for things that you don't even know of. It's also ignoring that drop rates amongst various items will not be equal.

This is the best approach my friends and I agreed on. It's workable, and can be adjusted. If you have a better method of approach for solving the issue at hand, I'd be glad to hear it.

Playing solo does not affect drop rates. Don't know if void missions give the same reward to everyone. or not but it won't be like rolling a dice 4 times, it's rolling one dice and multiplying the results by 4.

It affects drop rates indirectly, because I don't do defense missions solo very much. And if I do, it's on Venus, and only to wave 10.

[Guest]

You can't "just join", you have to be invited

and when you are invited, you can obtain the stuff then leave

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

Yes it is

You're not supposed to unlock everything instantly

Start a clan with some people in region chat, and work towards getting stuff.

IT'S

*EASY*

 

With four people in a clan, "not instantly" means three months of intense grinding. No thank you, I already have a job I go to everyday, I don't need a second one.

[rhoenix]

With four people in a clan, "not instantly" means three months of intense grinding. No thank you, I already have a job I go to everyday, I don't need a second one.

There are four people in my clan, too. The biggest roadblock is Forma, and we've made plans for multiple defense missions to get the Void Keys necessary from that.

It'll take a little while with only four people (especially in our case, where all four have full-time jobs and variable schedules) - but we'll at least try for now, and adjust as needed. Besides - the costs for Dojo-related items may be steep, but they're all one-time costs.

[Aigloblam]

There are four people in my clan, too. The biggest roadblock is Forma, and we've made plans for multiple defense missions to get the Void Keys necessary from that.

It'll take a little while with only four people (especially in our case, where all four have full-time jobs and variable schedules) - but we'll at least try for now, and adjust as needed. Besides - the costs for Dojo-related items may be steep, but they're all one-time costs.

I still cant get over your "I've made Plans"

RNG doesnt fit into your plan. Not anyones plan. But you aren't going to listen to that, you are too caught up in your fantasy world of predicting something that cannot be predicted. If it could, then this game would be a lot easier.

We just ran 15 Void missions and got not ONE forma. Not one blueprint for it, not one material, just Credits, Experience, and (the only good part) the blueprints for the Reaper Prime and the Latron prime. So how do your plans work around that?

[rhoenix]

I still cant get over your "I've made Plans"

RNG doesnt fit into your plan. Not anyones plan. But you aren't going to listen to that, you are too caught up in your fantasy world of predicting something that cannot be predicted. If it could, then this game would be a lot easier.

We just ran 15 Void missions and got not ONE forma. Not one blueprint for it, not one material, just Credits, Experience, and (the only good part) the blueprints for the Reaper Prime and the Latron prime. So how do your plans work around that?

If you're that worked up about this now, you might need to take a couple breaths before reading the rest of my response. Ready?

You sure? You can just skip past this, and save points on your blood pressure.

Crying about this solves absolutely nothing. One can account for unknown variables by working with the known variables in the equation, and very same approach works here. You raging, QQ'ing, or going AUGH RNG DEITIES I HATE YOU AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD doesn't in any way resolve this issue or present a solution to it, other than making yourself out to look like a victim instead of looking for solutions.

I've told you to speak up if you find a better solution, and you come back with tears and angst. You can get mad at me all you want for having a falsifiable plan of approach when you had none, and it won't bother me any.

In fact, you attacking me because I have a plan of approach for this and you don't is hilarious.

[Aigloblam]

If you're that worked up about this now, you might need to take a couple breaths before reading the rest of my response. Ready?

You sure? You can just skip past this, and save points on your blood pressure.

Crying about this solves absolutely nothing. One can account for unknown variables by working with the known variables in the equation, and very same approach works here. You raging, QQ'ing, or going AUGH RNG DEITIES I HATE YOU AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD doesn't in any way resolve this issue or present a solution to it, other than making yourself out to look like a victim instead of looking for solutions.

I've told you to speak up if you find a better solution, and you come back with tears and angst. You can get mad at me all you want for having a falsifiable plan of approach when you had none, and it won't bother me any.

In fact, you attacking me because I have a plan of approach for this and you don't is hilarious.

Whatever you feel like you need to do. Its not going to make a bit of difference to me. If you really feel you have everything planned out, Power to you. Im not the one thats going to burst your precious little bubble. I'm going to leave now, before i start, in your words "Raging, QQ'ing". Beating a dead and deaf horse got pretty boring a while ago.

[rhoenix]

Oh woe is me, look how much of a martyr I am! See the nails, and the 2x4 boards? Yes, I'm doing this for you, for ALL of you, because my genius and sage advice is so unappreciated!

Wow, careful there, Chief - you might sprain something.

Like I said: if you have a better idea for how to approach this, or for a solution for current issues, let's hear it.

[Aigloblam]

Wow, careful there, Chief - you might sprain something.

Like I said: if you have a better idea for how to approach this, or for a solution for current issues, let's hear it.

As much as i already don't like you, I have to admit, That was pretty good. There has to be a word for that...someone you dislike, but suddenly develop a bit of respect for. In fact im sure there is, but i dont want to take the time to look for it. Its probably German....if they can invent a word like Schadenfreude they should have this.

[rhoenix]

As much as i already don't like you, I have to admit, That was pretty good. There has to be a word for that...someone you dislike, but suddenly develop a bit of respect for. In fact im sure there is, but i dont want to take the time to look for it. Its probably German....if they can invent a word like Schadenfreude they should have this.

Speaking without anything other than honesty here - Void Key drops rates are a problem, and I hope that gets examined. The amount of Forma, how it's used, and where it gets used is also a problem, due to it's scarcity. I can agree with all of those points, and can agree that they need to be addressed.

However, my point with all of this is that solutions can be found and suggested to and for those things - but they require information and testing to do. I'm holding off personally in doing so until I do my own proper testing, when I finally go home from work - if my experiences are like yours, then I'll probably be requesting a change in drop rates, or something of the sort as a solution.

Until I have more information though, defense missions on Venus and mugging various bosses will probably be tried for the next few days, so I have better data to compare with, and suggest solutions based on that.

[Aigloblam]

Speaking without anything other than honesty here - Void Key drops rates are a problem, and I hope that gets examined. The amount of Forma, how it's used, and where it gets used is also a problem, due to it's scarcity. I can agree with all of those points, and can agree that they need to be addressed.

However, my point with all of this is that solutions can be found and suggested to and for those things - but they require information and testing to do. I'm holding off personally in doing so until I do my own proper testing, when I finally go home from work - if my experiences are like yours, then I'll probably be requesting a change in drop rates, or something of the sort as a solution.

Until I have more information though, defense missions on Venus and mugging various bosses will probably be tried for the next few days, so I have better data to compare with, and suggest solutions based on that.

See, If you had said that to begin with, None of us (well the two of us who disagreed) would have gotten our collective knickers in a tizzy. Nowhere in this entire last post was anything said that i can't totally agree with.

Personally, I think they should make Forma a  buildable component a bit different from anything else, and make it take the most difficult of materials to build. Say, Control Modules. They arent hard to get, but they DO take determination and patience to get them. And since they only come in stacks of 1 (as far as i know) you could build one Forma for like, 10 of them and 50k credits. More than you would generally get on 10 boss runs, but not by very much.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Aigloblam

[rhoenix]

See, If you had said that to begin with, None of us (well the two of us who disagreed) would have gotten our collective knickers in a tizzy. Nowhere in this entire last post was anything said that i can't totally agree with.

I can agree that this was an issue of perspective at the time this started, certainly. My intent was to get people to think about this situation rather than simply react, so that solutions can be found, once the problems are properly quantified. I simply saw people being upset about this and reacting based on that at the time, so I took the approach I did.

I can admit that it didn't work out quite like I thought, but at least it got us discussing the main issue now.

Personally, I think they should make Forma a  buildable component a bit different from anything else, and make it take the most difficult of materials to build. Say, Control Modules. They arent hard to get, but they DO take determination and patience to get them. And since they only come in stacks of 1 (as far as i know) you could build one Forma for like, 10 of them and 50k credits. More than you would generally get on 10 boss runs, but not by very much.

See, that as a solution makes perfect sense - keep them difficult to acquire (thus encouraging the lazy to buy them with platinum), but still more manageable than the current requirements.

If DE wanted to keep the Orokin area association with Forma, then just include it as an uncommon drop from enemies in those areas.

I could handle mugging the Hyena more often, especially for a good cause.

[Judopunch]

I still have not been convinced that clans of about 10 people can not come up with the resources to build one room per week.

[rhoenix]

I still have not been convinced that clans of about 10 people can not come up with the resources to build one room per week.

The only resource my 4-person clan is short on is Forma. All others we either had stockpiled, or can get rather easily from the right areas.

[aiMute]

The only resource my 4-person clan is short on is Forma. All others we either had stockpiled, or can get rather easily from the right areas.

~100 forma, easy.