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Dojo Room Prices Are Fine.... For Actual Clans.


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And what if I like things to be convenient? If that supports the developer, how exactly does that affect you?

Also, that's the attitude of a weakling right there. Don't wory for anything in your life, no matter what you do. Keep in mind, everyone and everything is here to suit your needs!

Do me a favor, try becoming mature.

Then they should let you buy the rooms outright with Platinum, and let the rest of us build it with timers and lots of materials and not a resource that costs Platinum to make.

Warbros already made their Dojo. Everything. And they spent $200 in platinum just to get it done. It hasn't even been 24 hours. I don't begrudge them; they have the money and the size to do it, good for them!

But I'm never going to be able to farm enough Forma to do that. NEVER. The game will stop being supported and the servers shut down before I could get enough forma to make all those rooms and hallways. And I have to buy all those rooms if I want to have access to the blueprints for that equipment. The materials I can get. The forma, stop pulling my leg.

Some guy in another thread said he ran 30 void tower missions, and no forma. At 15 platinum a pop, that's a hell of a lot of money (yes, I know he could just buy the forma at 20 platinum a pop).

I think it'd be fair if you want to buy an arena for you dojo for say, 50 platinum. No materials, no buildtime. Just build it. Hell, make it 100, since it's a room that does it's purpose all by itself, and doesn't require 4 other rooms and the accompanying hallways to function like the research. But if I can't build a basic dojo for 200 or 300 platinum, something is wrong.

As things stand now, I couldn't even build the hallways, and not just because of Rubedo or whatever.

The dojo's cost enough to make this game cost more than a AAA title at release. Someone needs to fix their idea of what reasonable pricing is. If I sound bitter about it, it's because I am. DE has continually said the game won't be pay to win but it obviously is, with a technicality to cover the lie in saying it's not. For all intents and purposes, if you're not willing to continually throw large amounts of money at DE, you can't access the new content.

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And by actual clans I mean anything with 10+ active members.

You don't need hundreds of members to build anything. Hell me and another member alone knocked out 90% of 2 rooms last night.

15k alloy? We got 500 in about 1-2 hours last night, per person in a party of 4. That's 2k easily, if you have 10 active players that's 5k in 2 hours with everyone contributing.

Not hard.

Nano spores? Same thing. They drop in hundreds! This was the first thing we finished, 120k is nothing, you can easily get 40k in about 3 hours.

This goes on and on.

If your clan has 3 people that isnt a clan. Thats just a friends list and a small one at that, the game needs to be balanced around actual clans, 3 man clans never go anywhere in other MMOs so why would you expect them to be viable here?

Its an MMO. Massivley Multiplayer Online Game.

Massive. Not small. You don't need to join hundred member clans, but you do need to join A clan. And if everyone contributes it isn't as hard as you think, at all.

Think of 15k alloy as 1.5k per member for a 10 member clan. Now it looks much easier doesn't it.

 

Sorry this game is NOT a MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online Game).  MMOs are made up of 1000s of players playing SIMULTANOUSLY in a gaming environment.  Warframe is made up of 4.

 

In fact the 4 person Co-op nature of the game is really designed perfectly for small clans or friends lists as you call it....well until now.  Now they just screwed up the design without adding any other true MMO features such as a open world questing, large scale raids, story, roleplay that would justify making clan being as important as they are.

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I ran about 10ish Void missions last night...

a good 5 or 6 of them didn't cost anyone a cent (we FARMED them)

and out of those runs we got 4 Forma and out of our clan, I believe 3 people got them from login rewards.

That's in *one* night with a pool of maybe 20-30 active players (and that is an over-estimate)

Is this anecdotal? Yes, it is... The point, however, is it should be obvious that it's indeed quite possible for free players and smaller clans to break these barriers without paying money.

Are you going to get it now? No, you're not, but why should you?

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I have a Glaive. It took a month. I didn't mind, it was one blueprint, and future content wasn't always going to be that way, the devs said so. Then came Voubon, supposedly something to keep us occupied while they finished update 8 with it's tons of new content. But Voubon requires 3 blueprints, all on RNG for alerts. There have been two so far, both during times when any normal person in North America is at work or school. I realize DE doesn't control that, but they're rare enough to be as rare or more than potatoes, which DERebecca said they wouldn't be. They're rare enough that in my opinion, saying they're unobtainable in a reasonable amount of time is true. Time to start getting worried. Two pieces of content added, both behind virtual paywalls because you either buy with plat or you roll the dice over and over. You can't farm alerts, after all.

Then comes Update 8. Lots and lots of content; some big bugs, things look cool. I've seen the Grineer tileset and it is indeed nice. I've fought some of the new grineer enemies and they're cool (though Scorpion needs the kunai drag fixed, seems she can do it through solid objects and you're completely out of control while she drags you). The Kunai themselves are just a blueprint and a lot of basic materials.

Everything else is behind a paywall. "NO it's not, you can get forma through Alerts and login rewards and random quest rewards in void towers" Ah, but you won't. You'll get credits and artifacts from alerts, and occasional weapons or helms blueprints. You'll get credits, xp, or ammo boxes from login rewards. JUST LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO, because the RNG is broken (DE even knows it's broken and has said so). And void towers require keys, which cost 75 plat for 5 (if it doesn't bug on you and disappear 1 to 3 of them). "You can get those as rewards, or from login rewards, or alert missions, or random drops" And evidently some have. I haven't seen one, and I played 6+ hours between now and the release of Update 8. That's about what I play in two nights generally, so I can expect to take weeks to find one key, for a chance to find one forma.

And a hallway takes 5. Or, I can take that one forma, and polarize a slot and re-level a weapon into a better weapon.

Polarizing slots is a better investment of Forma, and the forma costs for HALLWAYS are too high, let alone rooms, and 90% of the content for U8 is locked behind void keys and dojo research.

All of which basically requires you spend absurd amounts of platinum.

If the frames are all super-high priced in platinum to encourage you to farm them instead, then why is the cost in forma, and thus platinum, on the rooms so high? So you can farm them? You can't farm them. You have to buy forma with platinum, because Forma is going to be the RAREST of the RARE of drops. Catalysts and Reactors are one blueprint. Forma is going to require you to get a void key and then hope you get a forma rather than another scythe handle or whatever.

If forma was one platinum, I probably wouldn't say anything. Sure, it's still a paywall, but it's a reasonable paywall. But the paywall here is ridiculous. 30 dollars for a virtual room, all so I can grind materials to maybe get access to the snipetron, which used to cost 50k credits and you didn't even have to wait to build it?

Update 8's pricing makes it's content Pay to win. There's almost nothing you don't have to pay for to get, except Kunai and the dethcube. Maybe that should be enough.

 

TL; unfortunately read it all... O.o Steve was in Council chat last night and said they had issues with Void stuff etc.  AKA they are fixing drop rates etc today.  You do realize this is BETA correct? I know... I know... But they are implementing things to try out, and get feedback on.  Feedback does not consist of ZOMG IT'S PAY TO WIN GUIS!!  The patch just came out, they admitted to having problems, so give things a few days to work itself out. 

 

They are trying to add endgame and purpose to the game.  Running void stuff with an all clan group and get a forma drop? Awesome that's FOUR forma that can go into your dojo.  It's not meant to be something you build and get everything in the first week.  Unless you want to be in some ginormous zerg guild.

 

I have a small and growing guild.  Hell we just really started recruiting recently and you would be surprised at the number of people who love the fact/idea that we are a small clan ran by RL friends/family who don't want to grow past 30-40 people.  People still like the idea of knowing who's in your clan, and doing things with them.  We as humans are quite social, and clans thrive on that.

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Why does everyone act as if Forma doesn't drop out of the void... My God you can freaking run missions to get keys to go to the void and try your hand at getting some, and if you don't? Well then you get pieces to some pretty cool stuff or BP's for it...

 

People who whine pay to win don't realize you can get it all through playing.  Sure it takes a lot longer, but like someone else said, it's pay to CONVENIENCE.

No, you don't. You have a theoretical chance, but reality is different. It's like saying you have a chance to earn 600 million dollars if you just buy a lottery ticket. Sure, you do, and someone will, but it won't be you. EVER. The odds are so astronomically low of winning the lottery that it's only fantasy to think you ever will.

I don't think the odds are quite that bad to find forma, but they're bad, and in the amounts you'd need to unlock this content, impossible. If a player can run 30 void tower missions and get 0 forma, and I can play 6 hours and never see a void key, and I can give 3 hours a day for this game, I can expect to play for 30 days straight and never get a forma. NEVER. And I need *5* for a hallway!

If it takes me 6 months to build a hallway, the rest of it will never be done. And the Glaive, Voubon, and U8 have shown the way DE plans to continue to monetize their game. Put almost everything behind a de facto pay wall, then give a tiny lottery-style chance at getting something that may let you make it via farming, some day. And the Glaive is MUCH more common than the Voubon blueprints. Depending on the RNG for forma that'll be as rare or more so than potatoes is a joke.

You can say that none of the new content is required to play at the top, and perhaps you're right, but if you want to find out, you're going to have to pay through the nose.

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I ran about 10ish Void missions last night...

a good 5 or 6 of them didn't cost anyone a cent (we FARMED them)

and out of those runs we got 4 Forma and out of our clan, I believe 3 people got them from login rewards.

That's in *one* night with a pool of maybe 20-30 active players (and that is an over-estimate)

Is this anecdotal? Yes, it is... The point, however, is it should be obvious that it's indeed quite possible for free players and smaller clans to break these barriers without paying money.

Are you going to get it now? No, you're not, but why should you?

How did you farm the keys? Let the rest of us in on this big secret. People keep saying you can farm them, but no one is saying where they're getting them from. I'm naturally a skeptic at heart, so the assumption without something else is that you're just making up the story about getting forma to support your argument.

So tell us, where did you get the keys? How long did you have to farm to get those keys? How many clan mates were farming with you to get those key? Did you get 4 void keys from one mission with 4 clan mates?

Details would be extremely helpful. If this is some sort of clan secret you don't want to share, fine, I'll just assume you're lying about the forma and continue to rail against the Pay to win trend of a free to play game. Because every F2P game I've ever played that went P2W died because the F2P players left when they couldn't compete and the P2W players left when there was no one else left to beat who didn't have the same stuff as them. I'd rather that didn't happen to a game I invested $50 in, which to me is the price of a AAA game at release.

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And what if I like things to be convenient? If that supports the developer, how exactly does that affect you?

Also, that's the attitude of a weakling right there. Don't wory for anything in your life, no matter what you do. Keep in mind, everyone and everything is here to suit your needs!

Do me a favor, try becoming mature.

 

 

Did I say that it was bad that you like convience?  Nope, didn't say anything good, nor bad about it.  I just simply stated that you were a person who paid for convience.  Of course, paying for it, does in fact help DE, and I understand that helping a fairly small company is a grea thing to do.  I know Ive spent a fair amount on Killing Floor for TWI, but thats another story and its not relevant to this.  

 

Saying that I have the attitude of a weakling, is a fact-less claim for which you can not prove and is nothing more than an empty statement that holds no meaning or importance.   The next time you come here, think before you write.  And what is this "Don't wory for anything in your life, no matter what you do. Keep in mind, everyone and everything is here to suit your needs!" that you speak of?  Are you making false claims and implying who I am, again?  Or was my sense of sarcasim not obvious with my previous message/post?

 

Now, would you kindly reframe from implying?

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How did you farm the keys? Let the rest of us in on this big secret. People keep saying you can farm them, but no one is saying where they're getting them from. I'm naturally a skeptic at heart, so the assumption without something else is that you're just making up the story about getting forma to support your argument.So tell us, where did you get the keys? How long did you have to farm to get those keys? How many clan mates were farming with you to get those key? Did you get 4 void keys from one mission with 4 clan mates?Details would be extremely helpful. If this is some sort of clan secret you don't want to share, fine, I'll just assume you're lying about the forma and continue to rail against the Pay to win trend of a free to play game. Because every F2P game I've ever played that went P2W died because the F2P players left when they couldn't compete and the P2W players left when there was no one else left to beat who didn't have the same stuff as them. I'd rather that didn't happen to a game I invested $50 in, which to me is the price of a AAA game at release.

IO wave 5. Very easy and fast.

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Farming last night netted my clan and I 3 keys a piece.  Since I read void stuff was glitchy, which Ars btw did you not read the part where I said DE KNOWS THEIR VOID DROPS ARE BUGGED? AKA no forma dropping and getting the same BP's/handles all the time should be fixed?

 

PLEASE stop claiming about pay to win before the kinks have even been worked out...

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i feel rather good about all these things except Forma's. they should make the Clan Dojo building like, this(my opinion)

--Crafting materials should go up as the clan mates increases.

 

--Let us add rooms with the current members but the Newly joined members must  pay some materials before using them (This should make it balanced because if you work hard and do everything by yourself and someone else comes and uses them for free you would feel dumb and used)

 

Honestly, if its going to be like this its very very very hard for some people like me because currently im not working and frankly i dont have  money to buy plat(if i had the money i would surely buy a Grandmaster its the first time i like the developers of an game) but as the things they are i cant afford to buy platinum (yes not even $5)

 

But as you can guess new contents will come and we'll be against situations like that, We'll need bla bla to craft another thing that will cost money.

 

At least make a boss and add bp's of Forma or voidkeys to him but make it hard to craft( like 3k alloy plate 5 k Rubedo bla bla) This way noone would complain im pretty sure about it . But then again these are my ideas not everyone has to like them   these are what i had in mind and i had to say these

Good luck on u8 guys

 

(edit my engrish sucks so i tried to fix it after reading it 10324978345 times)

Edited by Shin
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Farming last night netted my clan and I 3 keys a piece.  Since I read void stuff was glitchy, which Ars btw did you not read the part where I said DE KNOWS THEIR VOID DROPS ARE BUGGED? AKA no forma dropping and getting the same BP's/handles all the time should be fixed?

 

PLEASE stop claiming about pay to win before the kinks have even been worked out...

Rebecca said forma should be a reward for finishing the mission, not a drop.
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I was a little put off by the costs of simple hallways but I'm looking forward to building a dojo the size of the biggest clans with only my small group of friends. Sure, it'll take a few months but it will be awesome when we're finished.

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This game is not MMO. MMO is a game where there are at least 50 people playing on the same maps at the same time. This is Third Person Shooter. There is only 4 players in game excluding the Dojo. Dojo as being just this place to hang out with and has little to do with the actual game is not enough to qualify this game as MMO.

Now tell, what to do. I could not care less for any randoms, all of my active friends serve in the army. Am I supposed to suck it up because my friends are doing something they give their life to, something that you are forced to do in a certain point of life? Yeah, justice indeed. " Screw you " - said DE staff right to my face. So much appreciation for my money, thanks a lot.

Anyways, it wouldn't be a big deal but unlike any other, not that I know of at least, this game offers content somewhat essential to the game. Unlike other games the clan system in this game offers something that affects the game by giving stuff that is wildly different from the normal content and can not be obtained by other means.

This is why making a system like that is risky and results into a lot of bad reputation for clans that are small, less than 10 members that is. If the game wouldn't include items that matter, items like skins and whatnot the problem would not even exist or they could balance the system depending on clan size.

I wish I'd know more people. I like to keep my friends close and no randoms around but it is easy to say that when you have enough friends to form even a group like that. A small country can only have so limited players in a game scale of this already but on the top of that, the ones that I know are in the army. Minorities getting pushed around, way to show equality.

Edited by BETAOPTICS
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So you expect to reap the benefits of the same thing that takes others hours and days of teamwork for everyone else, just because you dont have the time?

If you are the most active with little playing time then reality is you guys don't deserve it that fast. Of course it will be hard.... it should be. Your playing a game all about grinding and RNG and you dont have the time to grind.

Why do you expect the same rewards?

 

what part of "don't mind the extra work" and "waiting to see how bad the grind is" did you miss?  i am fully understanding and agreeing it should take more work for smaller clans. however the ratio of that work remains to be seen. i know i do not wish it to be a 20 hour time sink to get a hallway made if it comes to that.

 

as for me mentioning my playtime it was so you had perspective of where i'm coming from. not "OH WOES ME! i get nothing for next to free!"

 

also i know the endgame of warframe won't be all about the grinding, that's only what it currently is.

 

when did i EVER say "give me the same rewards with less work dammit!" ?

 

my comments were (very simply so you can't missunderstand again):

 

i disagree with the op saying small guilds don't exist and shouldn't and are useless.

 

i agreed that small guilds will take longer to get the same stuff.

 

i stated that i didn't want to join a larger guild just for their swag.

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Did I say that it was bad that you like convience?  Nope, didn't say anything good, nor bad about it.  I just simply stated that you were a person who paid for convience.  Of course, paying for it, does in fact help DE, and I understand that helping a fairly small company is a grea thing to do.  I know Ive spent a fair amount on Killing Floor for TWI, but thats another story and its not relevant to this.  

 

Saying that I have the attitude of a weakling, is a fact-less claim for which you can not prove and is nothing more than an empty statement that holds no meaning or importance.   The next time you come here, think before you write.  And what is this "Don't wory for anything in your life, no matter what you do. Keep in mind, everyone and everything is here to suit your needs!" that you speak of?  Are you making false claims and implying who I am, again?  Or was my sense of sarcasim not obvious with my previous message/post?

 

Now, would you kindly reframe from implying?

You're not actually serious about that, right? You were making all of those implications. Also,  it is common knowledge that sarcasm doesn't carry well on the internet.

Let me quote you on this.

"

Who the hell would want to join some small clan when they can join a HUGGGGE clan and get lots of weapon mods and stuff without having to spend a single credit or resource?   Heck, I think Ill lurk around some and find a nice large clan, and grab as much stuff as i can and then ditch them if they need more resources.  Afterall, how will they know if I helped or didnt? I could just lie about it and they would have no idea if I was being honest or being a liar.  Oh, and even better, what if they rank you up to where you control resrouces?  I would be ashame if someone stole them all and ran away.

"

Yeah, right. That's totally not dubious and sounds very sarcastic. And that "Since you're grandmaster you do seem to like to pay for convenience".

Cut the crap. That was not idle chatter. 

Yes, I was berating you for the content of that post, and you damn well deserved it.

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Forma's should be replaced with Boss rare drops (at about 2:1 ratio that forma's are currently at) IMHO.

 

Forma's should only be used on an individual basis when crafting certain special weapons in the dojo, specifically ones that come with polarity slots, cause that kinda makes sense right?

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I have a 30-some people clan. And I object and reject each and every of the OP's claims.

Not to mention that:

1) By consent and conforming, they defacto declares that arbitrary fixed quantities per each room type, with just varying material types, are an indication of good design.

2) They assume everyone can play for hours on end. I'm sorry. We do have lives, obligations and yes, even other games, outside of Warframe. And I'm not going to have a "must login and play X hours per day or get booted" type of elitist mentality.

Some can play for half a hour. Some for ten. Some for two.

3) They forgets that clans are not for everyone and not every clan fits anyone. Not to mention, cases of power abuse, cliques, corruption and such douchebaggery which are rather rampant in guild structures.

4) Dojo is cool, but it is not everything. People have their own individual goals, too. Like a prime gear or a Fragor that they've labored long and hard to collect materials to build.

5) Warframe is NOT a MMO. It is a MPOG. Whence we can bunch up 100+ players in a single instance (not a dojo hall, an actual mission), we'll call it MMO. I'll even cut you slack and have it down to 50.

Best Regards,

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And by actual clans I mean anything with 10+ active members.

You don't need hundreds of members to build anything. Hell me and another member alone knocked out 90% of 2 rooms last night.

15k alloy? We got 500 in about 1-2 hours last night, per person in a party of 4. That's 2k easily, if you have 10 active players that's 5k in 2 hours with everyone contributing.

Not hard.

Nano spores? Same thing. They drop in hundreds! This was the first thing we finished, 120k is nothing, you can easily get 40k in about 3 hours.

This goes on and on.

If your clan has 3 people that isnt a clan. Thats just a friends list and a small one at that, the game needs to be balanced around actual clans, 3 man clans never go anywhere in other MMOs so why would you expect them to be viable here?

Its an MMO. Massivley Multiplayer Online Game.

Massive. Not small. You don't need to join hundred member clans, but you do need to join A clan. And if everyone contributes it isn't as hard as you think, at all.

Think of 15k alloy as 1.5k per member for a 10 member clan. Now it looks much easier doesn't it.

Very well stated. It is all about perspective.

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