Dojo Room Prices Are Fine.... For Actual Clans.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Except that warframe isn't an MMO because you're limited to four people playing at once in an area. Maybe if we had like hundred man missions or something, but that's unlikely. But hey keep up the condescension, DE's penalizing new players and people who like to play in small groups will eventually kill the game.

 

Also lol@GM saying "just wait for alert" as if we had any sort of control when and how alerts happened.

[Nod_Off]

Except that warframe isn't an MMO because you're limited to four people playing at once in an area. Maybe if we had like hundred man missions or something, but that's unlikely. But hey keep up the condescension, DE's penalizing new players and people who like to play in small groups will eventually kill the game.

 

Also lol@GM saying "just wait for alert" as if we had any sort of control when and how alerts happened.

Lets see, the game has been going for at least 6 months, without anything for clans to really do. And people got along just fine. Why do dojos hurt you as a solo player?

If you do not have all weapons built or bought pre-update 8, then you still have a lot to do before even worrying about research weapons...

[ArsVampyre]

Farming last night netted my clan and I 3 keys a piece.  Since I read void stuff was glitchy, which Ars btw did you not read the part where I said DE KNOWS THEIR VOID DROPS ARE BUGGED? AKA no forma dropping and getting the same BP's/handles all the time should be fixed?

 

PLEASE stop claiming about pay to win before the kinks have even been worked out...

No, I didn't. I don't have access to the design council, and I'm not going to keep giving DE money to get into it unless I see a genuine change in the way things are going. I've been burned too many times to keep trusting naively.

See, the thing is, Rhino's IS was bugged. When they made it 80% damage reduction, but you could get knocked down and take poison damage, etc, that wasn't supposed to happen, or so we're told. And Banshee's soundquake was supposed to stun, and it wasn't. So everyone calmed down and waited. Banshee's nerf was 'fixed' with that (re)introduction of stun, and Rhino was to be fixed by making it full invincibility, but only to a cap, and with aggro added.

Wait and see everyone said! Don't say it won't work until you tried it!

The people trying it say what the people before were saying when the fix was proposed; that it would make it worse.

--------------------------------------

Let me put it another way. So the RNG for the Void tower rewards is bugged. I can accept that; lots of bugs with Update 8. There were even some show-stoppers like falling off the map and dying or getting your progress for that mission wiped with the wrong reward. But DE won't do anything about those bugs except if people complain enough about the current situation; they'll move on to new content. There are lots of unfixed bugs that people continue to bring up, over and over, and they never get fixed. People saying 'OMG paywall' are giving DE feedback; the RNG for your 'free' access method doesn't cut it. It's just a hidden paywall, and we see that. We're giving them feedback that we'd like it changed, and that we'd like future content to be more accessible than this.

You can disagree of course, but saying that's not feedback is disingenuous. It's not the feedback they want to hear, perhaps, because they obviously WANT the paywall, but the results of paywalling like this are that the players who can't/won't contribute that kind of money (which is most) will leave for new pastures, and the people who did pay or would will follow them, because no one likes to play alone, and Warframe will die. It won't happen right away, but locking content away behind a paywall, even one with a lottery style freebie door, always goes this direction.

Daily rewards are great when they're a bonus. When you turn them into a necessity if you don't want to pay money, they're a curse. Best to let DE know that now, so they can change it in time. So stop trying to keep people from giving feedback, please.

[rawrifficus]

OP doesn't understand what an mmo is. This is definitely not an mmo.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Lets see, the game has been going for at least 6 months, without anything for clans to really do. And people got along just fine. Why do dojos hurt you as a solo player?

If you do not have all weapons built or bought pre-update 8, then you still have a lot to do before even worrying about research weapons...

Way to not read. I never said anything about solo players, but small clans who still have to pay just as much as big clans.

[Nod_Off]

Way to not read. I never said anything about solo players, but small clans who still have to pay just as much as big clans.

You never said clans at all in fact. You said new players and small groups.

[KushalaDaora]

And what if I like things to be convenient? If that supports the developer, how exactly does that affect you?

Also, that's the attitude of a weakling right there. Don't wory for anything in your life, no matter what you do. Keep in mind, everyone and everything is here to suit your needs!

Do me a favor, try becoming mature.

That was a little aggresive coming from a Grand Master. Aren't you guys supposed to be a good example? To help the community AND the developers? By telling the people who aren't founders, who most likely aren't founders or pay for things at all because 1. they CAN NOT SPEND MONEY. They simply can't, because of reasons, and selfishness isn't one of them. 2. Having to pay to ENJOY things like the Dojo? Do you think small clans of like 4 people (like mine, where only my friend and me are really active), can manage to enjoy the Dojo feature without having to pay? Void keys aren't easy to get either. And then forma is quite rare, too. Me and my friend managed to do one run in the Void, and we only got a Latron Prime blueprint. And the forma? where's the forma? if it was so easy to get, why didn't we get 1 each of us?

 

Not to sound mean or something, but it seems like only the people who can spend huge amounts of money are the ones defending the dojo prices. People who simply can't spend money as much as we want to support the developers and enjoy things without having to destroy our actual lives on simply grinding the requirements for enjoying SUCH A NICE FEATURE. Now don't say that paying is optional for this and for convinience, because in cases like me and my friend, we can't enjoy this feature with ''patience'' as we both also have other things to care for. BUT WE WANT TO ENJOY DOJOS. And we can't, no matter what.

 

Please, Grand Masters, do not pretend like this whole Dojo feature can be left like ''a convinience'' to people who can spend a ton of money or a ton of time in this game.

[pedrit]

Forma .20 plat each. 200 Plat just to make a cross hallway

Edited May 26, 2013 by pedrit

[plznohurtme]

And by actual clans I mean anything with 10+ active members.

You don't need hundreds of members to build anything. Hell me and another member alone knocked out 90% of 2 rooms last night.

15k alloy? We got 500 in about 1-2 hours last night, per person in a party of 4. That's 2k easily, if you have 10 active players that's 5k in 2 hours with everyone contributing.

Not hard.

Nano spores? Same thing. They drop in hundreds! This was the first thing we finished, 120k is nothing, you can easily get 40k in about 3 hours.

This goes on and on.

If your clan has 3 people that isnt a clan. Thats just a friends list and a small one at that, the game needs to be balanced around actual clans, 3 man clans never go anywhere in other MMOs so why would you expect them to be viable here?

Its an MMO. Massivley Multiplayer Online Game.

Massive. Not small. You don't need to join hundred member clans, but you do need to join A clan. And if everyone contributes it isn't as hard as you think, at all.

Think of 15k alloy as 1.5k per member for a 10 member clan. Now it looks much easier doesn't it.

This goes on and on eh? how about the 455k salvage, 175k circuits, 140k polymer bundle requirement... oh wait let's move on to the research itself... 8m credits, another 375k polymer bundle, 90k plastids, another 75k circuits... still not done let's see... 2500 detonite ampule, 2500 mutagen sample, 4250 fieldron sample... and that's missing some of the material costs from the research because I don't have all of the numbers.

It's exactly as hard as I think it is, perhaps you should get all your facts before getting on your high horse and telling people to buck up it's not so bad.

Edited May 26, 2013 by plznohurtme

[Loswaith]

Personally I'm not worried if it takes a week for a hall or a month for a room. I care more that having to farm isnt fun.  For any small clans it can ammount to allot of grinding.  An exhange for time vs resources would work well for smaller guilds/friends in that reguard.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Loswaith

[Second_Measure]

It's only Pay for fast Progress. Which is entirely optional for the people.

You get them rooms done one way or another, just not on day 1.

 

And that would be stupid unless you are ready to pay up Platinum for the Forma parts. It would be unwise of DE that you can rush through all the new stuff in a matter of hours as a F2P player.

[MistahBlitzy]

Anyone saying this isn't Pay to Win solely because of a lottery that gets worse and worse as more content is added in is an idiot.

[Kyrkitao]

It's only Pay for fast Progress. Which is entirely optional for the people.

You get them rooms done one way or another, just not on day 1.

 

And that would be stupid unless you are ready to pay up Platinum for the Forma parts. It would be unwise of DE that you can rush through all the new stuff in a matter of hours as a F2P player.

Forma drop from void missions at a rate that is something like 1 or 2 per 30 runs. I can go 3 hours without finding a key for a void mission. Assume, generously, that the forma rate is under reported and is actually twice what I've seen go by several times. 4 in 30 runs. 37.5 runs for an X hallway (solo) or 10ish runs if you're an all-clan group. 30 hours of farming for the forma for a hallway... ouch.

[Second_Measure]

Forma drop from void missions at a rate that is something like 1 or 2 per 30 runs. I can go 3 hours without finding a key for a void mission. Assume, generously, that the forma rate is under reported and is actually twice what I've seen go by several times. 4 in 30 runs. 37.5 runs for an X hallway (solo) or 10ish runs if you're an all-clan group. 30 hours of farming for the forma for a hallway... ouch.

 

It has been said that they can appear either as Void Mission Reward, Alert Reward and Login Reward.

Believe it or not, I got already two of them in my inventory, even though they are blueprints.

 

 

See, not a big deal.

 

[Nod_Off]

Anyone saying this isn't Pay to Win solely because of a lottery that gets worse and worse as more content is added in is an idiot.

 

Stop talking. Calling a 4 person coop game pay to win is dumb, just dumb.

 

Stop whining, stop calling people people idiots, and go play the best free to play game that has ever come out. 

[pdxdubin]

And by actual clans I mean anything with 10+ active members.

You don't need hundreds of members to build anything. Hell me and another member alone knocked out 90% of 2 rooms last night.

15k alloy? We got 500 in about 1-2 hours last night, per person in a party of 4. That's 2k easily, if you have 10 active players that's 5k in 2 hours with everyone contributing.

Not hard.

Nano spores? Same thing. They drop in hundreds! This was the first thing we finished, 120k is nothing, you can easily get 40k in about 3 hours.

This goes on and on.

If your clan has 3 people that isnt a clan. Thats just a friends list and a small one at that, the game needs to be balanced around actual clans, 3 man clans never go anywhere in other MMOs so why would you expect them to be viable here?

Its an MMO. Massivley Multiplayer Online Game.

Massive. Not small. You don't need to join hundred member clans, but you do need to join A clan. And if everyone contributes it isn't as hard as you think, at all.

Think of 15k alloy as 1.5k per member for a 10 member clan. Now it looks much easier doesn't it.

 

 

 

Clans with 1000+ members will only create the dojos quickly.

 

Smaller clans can build things just as fast.

 

Hell, if you did not know this.

 

Research CANNOT be rushed.

 

Meaning we have to wait just like everyone else.

 

 

I believe its better to take your time,  i kind of feel like our clan spoiled the "True" feeling, of working hard and earning the dojo slowly.

 

 

But there are always two sides to the spectrum.  

[jsrama]

Reading through this thread, I'd just like to say that I agree with those contributors in the post who say that the pricing is a bit much by comparison to other pay to obtain items. Sure, I'm a F2P player and I dislike the thought of paying to obtain stuff when I can get it by playing the game, but even those that are paying have to draw the line when they're paying $10 for a functional use such as a new Warframe and a weapon, yet they're paying an equivalent $30 for a function/room in a hub world that is usually free even in pay to play MMOs (Just did a simple check of platinum prices and the amount of Forma needed for a dueling room, 10 forma = 200 platinum which you are either paying $20 or $30 for).

I think the main problem, outside of everyone's individual problem, is that if you want to experience the new hub world weapons it's not a matter of significant time investment, but of significant investment in general. People who pay to experience the new content would have to pay an estimated $200 (70 forma for the duel room and all the new labs at 10 forma per $30).

 

By comparison I don't think anything else in the game would cost near as much, let alone a function (PvP) that is often provided for free as an inherent part of the game.

 

I do agree that Forma should be a possible mission reward instead of a drop, it makes life easier for everyone, pay or no. But I really think the duel room should just be its own mission, after all not allowing all players fair access to it effectively makes this game non-competitive in its chosen genre and industry, even for a free to play.

That being said, I do like the 'Dojo' idea, and while I happen to be one of these 'insignificant small clans of casual gaming friends' and I detest the idea that if I want to enjoy a hub with my friends then I have to either pay money or spend weeks and months playing the game, I believe that the Dojo does work, if it weren't for the Forma requirements.

 

So maybe just make it cost 1 Forma for everything but the 'functional' buildings? i.e. Then it would cost 20 platinum for a hallway but it would still cost 3-5 forma for a reactor or the tech labs. In the scheme of costs, that means the cost of  hallways and connectors is now only about $5-10 and the cost of building a complete dojo with R&D and a duel room is now halved?

Not to say that it's a win-win by any stretch, but it's a fair compromise at the least.

 

Just my thoughts, I enjoy this game and I'm glad that the community is passionate about it, for better or worse.
 

TL;DR - Reduce forma costs for building anything except for the Great Hall, Duel Room and Tech Labs; and make Forma a Mission Reward in addition to log-in rewards. Thank you for reading.