Mods, Forma, And Build Freedom

[Sines314]

I simply do not see this as necessary. I won't stop playing if it gets implemented. I won't fly over the Atlantic with a pitchfork and a torch nor make a thread about it. But I don't think making everything too simple creates long lasting interest. 

 

I certainly understand what you're saying. That's why I used the Diablo 2 vs. Diablo 3 description. If you want to play a ranged Crusader in Diablo 3, all you do is change up your skills in 5 minutes to reshape your melee burst Crusader. On the other hand, if you want to play a Trap Assassin in Diablo 2, you can't rebuild your Martial Arts Assassin. You have to start over completely from scratch at level 1.

Both versions of how 'permanent' a character is are good. There are selling points to both, and lots of people like one or the other, or perhaps a mix of both, and no-one is wrong for liking one or the other.

 

I simply feel that Warframe is just much closer to D3 than D2. You can swap weapons and frames and companions very freely, and given the 'specific mission' based focus of the game, you're inclined to want to do so to ready for the mission your going on, rather than having to make one build that is meant to do well enough in every situation.

 

Polarities are the only kind of D2 customization in the game, and I explained in a previous post why D2 style 'permanent' customization is not well suited for Warframe. I wouldn't mind if Warframe was a D2 style 'permanent' character kind of thing. That'd be just dandy. But I feel that having a mostly D3 style game with that little D2 add-on makes the game worse for the D3 lover in me, without evoking any of the fondness for the D2 lover. It's 90% committed to that kind of D3 gameplay, and I feel the 10% D2 in there just makes both kinds of gameplay worse.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Sines314

[YashiroSora]

I fully agree with the suggestions made by OP, as for min-max builds, a difference of 1 rank on an r10 mod is very critical as it may completly off-set the build balance. I agree that being able to unlock a slot would make the game much more flexible as well as mods have a rank-scale bar.

[Lakais]

 

I don't believe cheap freeform polarities will fix anything or add anything substantial to the game, if anything I think it will undermine more aspects then it helps others. I'm not trying to stop you on your idea, run with it! For all I know you could be right and usher in a new age of.... something. I've been wrong many times before. But until proven wrong I'll stick by what I think is right. The other two ideas are great, awesome QoL. But this third idea does not sit right from my point of view. 

 

 

I'm afraid since I never got into D2 as such have never played D3 (not a fan of isometric games in general) I have just the barest ideas of your point of view. 

 

Or maybe, just maybe.... I am going against this for the trollzies!

[Meioti]

I love the underclocking idea for Primed Mods. I overall at first was quite excited about this idea entirely because of those pesky corrupted mods, but then one thing struck me.

Lets say this would be implemented tomorrow, this would have a giant negative impact on the trading economy. As there would be no use for just 1 of every mod. It'd be a giant slap in the face for newer players starting out on making platinum and keeping the platinum flow through the community going.

 

I mean, you could say 'Oh look, but those nice Void missions with those nice sellable rewards!'

Yeaah.. no. Not really, not as sellable as you'd think at all as a starting player. Everyone eventually only has use for 1 part (or 2 depending on what you're looking for) and will never need it ever again. So unless you catch a big fish, its going to be quite hard to start making this plat and on top of that it will increase the grind even further. Why? Simple. Player will be pushed even faster into the direction of efficient key-usage and hard farming tactics to increase their chances of getting that rare prime part. Are newer players able to actually start this incredibly efficient farming? No they won't, as they don't have the required mods (or levels on those mods) to actually do so. They dont have anywhere close near the resources (fusion cores) to submit to the mindless farming to start making some platinum.

You say just run some vault runs to get the mods? Sure they will do that, but the RNG will turn this all in an even bigger farm then it already was as.

 

Right now players are able to sell off their corrupted mods fairly easily, lets say you get a spare Narrow Minded, Fleeting Expertise, Blind Rage, etc etc, you'll just be able to sell these off right now and get what you want in return. Of course some mods are more demanded then others, but all of this is actually really helping out the community without really being seen.

It is a very nice reward to get additional spare mods for the newer players, as selling them (the good ones easily 20 plat if you're not in a rush) could deffinetly get you the potato you so badly want on your frames or weapons.

I'm also not talking so much here about the corrupted mods being harder to obtain, by all means no, they would be all the easier to obtain in a way as the prices of the mods will deflate and a lot of people would probably even give them away for free on a good day. Warframe has a very nice community in that sense.

 

I see this lead to 2 types of players

 

1. If they kept their starting platinum/someone is nice enough to give them for free due to excess of mods

Newer players being able to obtain mods lots easier, being a huge convenience.

They will have an excess of mods at a really fast rate, probably selling a lot for credits as plat would not be able to be earned from this anymore.

As the demand for plat and having an excess of mods -> getting into your cookie-cutter builds faster because it is the most efficient way of getting to those primed frames/weapons they dont have any other method of obtaining of, and they feel the need to be as efficient as possible due to them not knowing too much about obtaining keys and overall getting rushed into the lategame farming without having any knowledge about the game mechanics/frames whatsoever as they are 'forced' into the 'Elite' frames with a singular build. Come on, I see so many r19's crying at the moment that mag is a completely useless frame in void missions now already.. I usually just ditch anyone that is r19 because most of the ones I've met have Draco'd their way up and still know next to sht about even efficient farming, what they so called 'excell' at. 

 

2. They spend their starting plat/nobody is giving it to them

Newer players succumbing to the grind of vault runs to get the mods they need as nobody is giving it to them and they have no way of buying them (no plat), no way of making plat (no market for what they are able to do with current meta).

Player most likely gets frustrated with the grind and quits before reaching endgame.

Even if they get through this grind, it will still result into players faster using those most efficient farming methods to get that one primed frame they want.

 

That looks like a very, very unhealthy development to me when it comes to the meta atm.

 

------

 

I am absolutely sure I missed something to make my point here or express myself clearly here lol

Anyhow the duplicative mods issue is yeah, somewhat of an inconvinience to older, more experienced players, but it is a huge help to the entire game actually having it in there. Or well.. a huge help.. 'Fixing' this would definetly hurt more then do good tho.

Mods are a huge part of the mentality to how to approach the game, and this would be a very dangerous change.

By all means correct me if I'm wrong here and sorry if I didnte xpress myself clearly enough, I would like to know how you guys would see this affect the economy.

 

 

Now for the superforma.

This I actually really like, as said a few times before, leave normal forma as they are, create some sort of superforma that does this. Have the blueprint as a drop to a raid or something.

 

 

Edits: God stupid post keeps compiling itself in such a way it becomes so ahrd to read..

 

Edited August 4, 2015 by Meioti

[FelisImpurrator]

*snip*

Wait.

Warframe's community? Nice? What planet are you playing from, and can I migrate to its server?

 

Trade chat, nine out of ten times, has been the most poisonous, treacherous, blatantly dishonest place in the entire game in my experience. Worse than whatever toxins Hek floods the air with. Every moment, except at a dead hour, nearly all I see is a flood of spam, scams, and general snake-oil sales tactics that quickly replace each other in floods of textwalling. I haven't the slightest idea where you get the impression that the economy is already in any way healthy - have you completely missed all the people who scam other players to the tune of thousands of plat and then brag about it in Region or the forums? Trade, in its current state, doesn't help those new players who need to scrape together plat for slots or potatoes (unless they're willing to be very, very patient, or very, very underhanded) nearly as much as it helps the players who have nearly limitless resources and stores of rare items to begin with.

 

There will always be people too lazy or busy or cursed by RNG to farm all the parts or the mods they want. Sure, they'll only buy once, but they'll buy to skip having to put their noses to that particular grindstone even once. And there will always be players willing to sell or trade those mods. But the current system only helps the seller - the buyer has to go through RNG or spend plat up to ten times to get enough copies of a particular mod. I don't see how you think that's a balanced situation, either.

 

Besides, what I don't get is - why are you talking about Trade as if it's a central part of progression - as if it should be expected for people to have to buy and sell in trade to play the game? To me, that implies a larger problem with progression itself, that the rate of grind needs to be adjusted - and so does the game's economy as a whole; plat costs, mod/part acquisition, all of it. Other than plat for warframe and weapon slots, trade should be incidental to the main game - a means of occasionally skipping a grind/RNG wall that really hasn't been kind, or to get your favorite weapon/frame's Prime because you can't stand the wait, not the main source of the essentials a new player needs to get off their feet and start gearing up properly.

 

The thing is, people are already being driven to the meta grindstone. They have been for a long time. New, old, and in between. Everything you've described about being railroaded into the "elite meta builds" and the most efficient grind mills - is precisely the state of the game right now, and it's because the current system demands volume - of R5s, of keys, of duplicate mods to have one for every rank, you name it. If the requirements for a viable, flexible set of builds for any situation are divided by ten - let's say, having one rank 10 Blind Rage instead of having three or four, and thus only having to rank the mod once, which takes fewer cores and credits; or else needing fewer forma on each piece of gear, creating less downtime - people need to farm less to become more powerful, the entry level to 'endgame-ready' is lowered, and most importantly to a newer player with few resources, single copies of mods don't need to be intentionally left weak so their corrupted tradeoffs or point drain won't completely ruin other gear/builds.

 

Prime part RNG will be changing at some point in the future, for that matter. The grind itself needs to be rebalanced, but that's not the point of this specific thread. I understand the sentiment - but maybe what needs to be looked at is the way trade has become too important. I, for one, wouldn't mind having an alternate way to acquire slots (or even platinum) - I've heard that in the old days of the game, small quantities of plat were obtainable in-game without resorting to trade. In denominations of, say, 10 or 20, I think that would be a good solution; make plat obtainable through gameplay, but just slowly enough that its primary use would be for essential gear slots - or else, make slots obtainable another way, as with every other non-cosmetic item that can be purchased for platinum.

 

-

 

As for super-forma being a raid blueprint... only if it's reusable, OR not buried under a mountain of useless junk like twenty Arcane Ices. It should be at least somewhat reliable.

 

Although I would hope it doesn't screw with the number of forma stars above the weapon name. Aesthetically, it bothers me to have more forma on a piece of gear than there are polarities, so every one put in place has to be perfectly suited from the start to avoid the need for extra... that's just me.

[Meioti]

-good points all over the place-

 

Haha the community is toxic as in all online games ever. But compared to a lot of different games out there, Warframe has a way bigger side of half-decent people that I have seen often giving away stuff for free to newbies. i quite regularly see people giving them Continuity, Flow, Intensify, nice steppingstones like that. This is something that I have seen happen on more then just a few occasions. So in that way, yes Warframe probably has one of the friendlier communities out there, and then I'm not even comparing it to MOBA's like Dota 2 here. This has just really been my own experience tho.

 

And by no means the trade is in a healthy state by now, and the meta-game is terrible. 

I would love to see both change, but by introducing underclocking I think you could be touching a lot of different aspects indirectly that you dont want to touch in this way. The way trading would be affected would (I think) be bad. If trading becomes bad with the current meta-game, I fear the effects would be just as damatically bad as the entire existence of Draco :P

 

This feels a bit like a luxury change, which I would love, but would just be a terrible idea at the moment.

IF however somehow the modsystem would be revamped in different ways, the starmap is different, RNG would be somewhat adjusted, this'd be a lovely change. I just dont think the game is anywhere near ready for luxury changes. Although I think we are heading in the right direction. 

 

But hey, this is just my view on the entire subject :)

Maybe I'm completely wrong and have no clue what I'm talking about in everyones eyes haha (which could very well be)

But I think that nex to how it should be done and that the majority would probably like the change, that the potenially bad side-effects that come with it also should be adressed. And by all means prove me wrong on everything.

 

 

 

Edit: One thing I forgot to mention is that I didn't mean it as a cental part of progression, but I know for a fact that when I reached the sudden unnatural mid-endgame wall it helped me out a lot. And made the game feel a whole lot more fun and rewarding for me. Like, of course everyone has their own ways of progressing through the game, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that thought being able to sell off those duplicate mods for a decent price was a giant help towards gameprogression or luxury items. Take that away and you take away the most (I'm actually going to say it) stable and easiest ways to start making that platinum. Of course people will occasionally still buy it, but a WHOLE lot less and with an incredibly deflated price.

Making the Derelict next to useless.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Meioti

[MagPrime]

-snip-

All of my yes! 

 

This is a wonderful idea and I really want it implemented, especially being able to unrank mods!  I would love to experiment with most of the corrupted mods but don't simply due to the prohibitive credit cost and then being stuck with, basically, a useless mod that would ruin any other build.

[FelisImpurrator]

*snip*

Mm, true, there are a lot of helpful players like that - I was given a few big boosts up when I started five months ago.

 

But not in Trade. Except for maybe 5% of the time.

 

Actually, I have heard that DE themselves were talking about underclocking as a feature. What I don't know is why they haven't done it. It could be that - that the game state simply isn't ready for it, that the starmap and the RNG and the mod system need to be changed first. And although I think now may be a good time for it, if there are concerns like that that keep it from being a current option, I would be fine with fixing core systems first; as long as it happens sometime.

 

As for the plat economy, there really should be a better option than buyers having to collect too many copies of a mod and sellers having to take advantage of that because most other methods of making platinum aren't reliable. If prime rarity were a little more balanced and the farms for those parts were more accessible, we would probably have a more stable economy with fewer massive spikes, price gouges, dramatic undercutters... although, for mods, I find that rare mods from the starmap content seem to be as profitable, if not more, than corrupted trade. It's all RNG, anyway, and people are far more likely to have a full set of Warframe corrupteds than they are to have Firestorm or High Noon... or even the Spy mods. Spy has been a good source of plat for me. Few people do it, apparently, so few have the mods to sell.

[Sines314]

While the sale of multiple copies of serration and the like is certainly helpful (a friend of mine made a ton of plat doing that), it's hardly the only option. I'm selilng my Syndicate mods for as much as I was when I first started being able to earn them. And I can do it without doing anything special. Every couple of days I have enough standing to make 15p from a single mod, pretty reliably. I suppose it's possible players are buying multiple copies of syndicate mods, but I doubt it.

 

To be fair, I do have New Loka / Perrin Sequence as a syndicate set, which is the rarest one. Perhaps other syndicates have it rougher.

[MagPrime]

While the sale of multiple copies of serration and the like is certainly helpful (a friend of mine made a ton of plat doing that), it's hardly the only option. I'm selilng my Syndicate mods for as much as I was when I first started being able to earn them. And I can do it without doing anything special. Every couple of days I have enough standing to make 15p from a single mod, pretty reliably. I suppose it's possible players are buying multiple copies of syndicate mods, but I doubt it.

 

To be fair, I do have New Loka / Perrin Sequence as a syndicate set, which is the rarest one. Perhaps other syndicates have it rougher.

Uhm, wrong thread?

[Sines314]

Uhm, wrong thread?

 

That was in regards to the person who expressed the idea that allowing people to underclock mods would hurt the market on buying multiple copies of Serration.

[MagPrime]

That was in regards to the person who expressed the idea that allowing people to underclock mods would hurt the market on buying multiple copies of Serration.

Ah, okay.  

[(PSN)PeetSquared]

I enjoyed reading this suggestion and can agree we need more flexibility on our frames and weapons. Sure, one build may very well be the "best" but how often does that really matter? I'd say around 75% of my game time is spent in non-endgame content and often, I'd like to change up the build a bit...just to try something new. With the utility slots, that can be impossible...ish.

If DE is worried about reducing the grind too much by letting us swap polarities at will, what about the idea of putting multiple polarities into one spot? You'd still have to spend that forma but at least the slot wouldn't be so restrictive.

As for being able to dynamically derank a mod, once you've gone past a certain point (the reasoning for this is two fold, both for using a mod where you don't have enough points left or wanting to use a corrupted mod at various levels), I don't see any issue with it. The only arguement against it, imo, is that DE wants us collecting multiples of the same mod and ranking it to different levels. Well, I'd rather both have flexibility and be able to clean up my mod pool.

Anyway, great topic.

[Soulden]

FelisIpurrator, while I understand the idea behind your suggestion, and actually agree that 8-9 (now 9-10) polarity changes are a bit too much, and the problems it causes, I have to say and ask, as the current system has its compromise in order to maximize, or create a "challenge" for the player to overcome(with a high cost indeed), what you offer as a compromise?

 

1. Make Forma permanently unlock a slot to be freely changed to any polarity, per configuration, without clearing all builds with every swap.

Even though I like the idea, there is no compromise behind it. I could offer a suggestion, but it involves the current dreadful never-ending current grind per Forma.

Would you compromise by keeping mods from becoming active until you attain enough mod points for the next mod in order to activate?

ex.: Forma 1st mod slot and place Maxed Vitality which would not activate until level 3(assuming potato) with a Vazarin polarity? And so on for the next mod following in order they are placed on loadout.

 

Currently confused about:

2. Make existing polarities movable with zero forma installed.

Do you mean as non-polarized slots being movable, or base polarized slots with zero forma installation needed?

Either way I'm confused about placement, but could help with example given for your first suggestion.

 

3. Give us the ability to down-rank EDIT: "underclock" mods, dynamically, per configuration.

Really really sorry about sounding like a broken record. Currently we have a compromise/restriction when it comes to mod point allotment. Need a compromise in order to create a "challenge". Would maxing the mod allows for the option to underclock? Just an idea, considering the cost of maxing some mods....why not?

 

Just trying to help, I like the concept behind it and like I said, I understand it. Just missing compromises in order to give players a "challenge" behind it.

 

Best of luck tenno.

 

[FelisImpurrator]

 

1. In order? That's... an interesting idea. Although it makes me think of a new, and potentially really fun, way to do it.

 

Remember the old Dark Sector PVP? How ranking weapons worked in there? Everything started at zero, but as you killed things, your gear would level up again, and unlock the mods you already had installed in order. What if we had that in PVE? The ability to put on your entire configuration from the start, but based on the order of your mods and polarities, they would unlock one by one as you gain levels. Even if you ranked the weapon up in-mission - a little power boost in the middle of a big fight with ranking gear could instantly make them viable for use, meaning more XP flows to that weapon. It would mix things up -  a lot - and potentially have a nicer flow of progression.

 

Unless... is this exactly what you're describing? I'm not sure, I might have misunderstood - but if what I just outlined is the kind of system you want, then I like it.

 

2. This is for default polarities. Say, the much-loathed Vazarin that comes on the very first slot of many weapons - Tipedo, Atomos, Kulstar, and the like. Before the first forma, these tend to completely break elemental configurations, because Cold as a first slot is extremely limiting, and status chance is so useless as to be a non-entity. Apparently it was once allowed to move polarities before applying any forma, but it was removed - I don't see why. It should be returned; all it does is add a little inconvenience.

 

3. Only being able to underclock after maxing the mod? I... like this idea. Why not? That's the only time you really, desperately need to be able to do so. We can think of the final two ranks as the "last hurdle" to being able to unlock the mod's full potential. It gives a lot more incentive to take mods to their maximum rank, to really invest in one or two at a time instead of leveling a massive pile of them piecemeal. This is actually a great suggestion.

[Fari]

Forma are really cringey in general. I've been putting some into Equinox today, and it feels like every single forma is just limiting my builds more and more, but extra necessary now with the Exilus slot, which speaking of, I feel like even more I'm definitely not allowed to forma it. My new ice dash uses a D, but most other utility mods use a - and there's no winning either way. 

Using a resource and releveling your frame shouldn't be about getting choices taken away.

Like you said, you can already minmax one build anyways, it's not making people stronger to have more build options. I wouldn't even complain if polarity was locked in, but mods cost the default amount at the veeery least.

Fact is neither changing your build with forma nor owning a second copy of your frame just for the sake of alternate builds are worthwhile actions, there's no real reason to be stuck into one thing for your upgrades.

 

Part of me does feel like suddenly changing it at will would be.. too good though? Suddenly actually having choices, I guess. Thinking about it, it's hardly broken or anything, so long as like you mentioned the default polarities given to something aren't possible to change at default. It'd just be really quality of life, really. If DE really needed some justification, I'd put up with needing to do something else just to make the forma'd slot now possible to change at will, though it doesn't sound unfair to just come with.

[DelialFallen]

So all the benefits with none of the restrictions.

 

I'm not entirely sure that makes for good planning or gameplay.  Certainly, it might feel fun for a time.  But once that feeling of satisfaction in building up a frame to a particular set of polarities is gone, you take away and important part of gratification and replace it with nothing that will offer a lasting value other than Dakka.

 

Dakka is fun, but ultimately unsatisfying on its own in my opinion.

[FelisImpurrator]

 

Please read the rest of the thread before commenting.

 

There were people who made good suggestions for keeping a few suitable (without being unholy triple grindwall) challenges in. I responded to those favorably. Haven't updated the OP, because I've running on barely any sleep for the entire week.

 

And besides, I specifically mentioned it wasn't about MORE POWER MORE POWER MORE POWER, unlike what a lot of other people seem to want. It's that I don't feel "satisfied" at the thought of locking my frame or weapon into one build and one build alone without realizing it, or seeing a wall of max ranked mods I can only use maybe one-third of because they're all on polarities that were left out of the forma process. More dakka? More dakka is the easiest thing to build for. It's what most people sink all their forma into. So it's already 90% of what we see during gameplay - people chasing the DPS rabbit as far down the rabbit hole as they can go, building all their polarities to get the absolute most out of mashing 4 like a maniac, and just stopping there.

 

This is a line of questioning I seem to be having to go down a lot in this thread for some unfathomable reason, but... what's new? Is this meant to be describing something significantly different from the issues the game already suffers from at present? I hope you have an answer to this, because I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at right now.

[DelialFallen]

I have read the thread.

 

Reading the thread ought not to imply I agree with the propositions, nor should it, in fact, imply I should build on the base of what has been presented here: that is, a way to diminish or entirely remove permanency of polarity build in favor of what you call 'fun', etc.

 

What I counter with is the opinion that removing that very permanency would diminish satisfaction in building up Frames, weapons and companions to meet a standard, achieve a goal, for whatever content it may be.

[FelisImpurrator]

I have read the thread.

 

Reading the thread ought not to imply I agree with the propositions, nor should it, in fact, imply I should build on the base of what has been presented here: that is, a way to diminish or entirely remove permanency of polarity build in favor of what you call 'fun', etc.

 

What I counter with is the opinion that removing that very permanency would diminish satisfaction in building up Frames, weapons and companions to meet a standard, achieve a goal, for whatever content it may be.

No, I didn't mean you should agree; but rather, that reading the thread should imply that you know what you're disagreeing with.

So all the benefits with none of the restrictions.

...

nothing that will offer a lasting value other than Dakka.

These statements imply the exact opposite. Which is why I had distinct concerns that you might, perhaps, be reading a different message from the one you are responding to.

 

The issue of "challenge" and "restrictions" was brought up earlier. Someone suggested compromises between extreme rigidity and extreme flexibility only a page ago; they were certainly very interesting, and I liked them - I would be perfectly fine with, and even welcome, some additional challenge to fully unlock the potential of a piece of equipment instead of shoehorning it into one preset development path. Just as long as that additional challenge is accessible to most, if not all, players, and not just the bored endgame players with nothing to do except tinker endlessly with builds until the next update - not something like hiding it behind a Nightmare Raid. At the same time, that is in no way implying it should necessarily be "easy".

 

What is your justification? What is your argument? There are no points here, other than "I think it's less satisfying" and implying the goal of this thread is to acquire "more dakka". I do not derive satisfaction from being able to say "Hey, look - my Soma Prime can now fit its full build! And only that build, because my polarities are so precisely aligned that other mods will encounter slot conflicts and become impossible to slot!" Which just happens to be precisely the situation that keeps me from putting the last forma on my Soma Prime - if, at some point after my fourth forma, I wish to radically change my build,more likely than not I will be forced to waste forma undoing my previous change - and if that doesn't work out, yet another forma to change it back.

 

With the current polarity system, unless a weapon or warframe uses a build that relies on very few mod points to do its job, it is very nearly impossible to make any radical deviations from the path you yourself have set your equipment on. At present, every forma past a certain amount of 'safe' polarities is a piece of track on an increasingly narrow railroad, even though it should instead serve to open new horizons and new opportunities to break out of limitations.

 

The existence of Exilus only serves to heighten this, particularly considering the Exilus mods have several different polarities. Place, say, a Vazarin polarity in Exilus for cold procs, and you sacrifice nearly all of the other mods in that category. Naramon is currently the clear-cut, singular, "most efficient" choice because it encompasses the widest range of useful mods - Handspring, Mobilize, Master Thief, Rush, Maglev, etc; but in terms of elements that locks you into the otherwise prohibitively expensive Toxic Flight, for instance.

 

I enjoy customization. Experimenting with builds, particularly ones not dictated mod for mod by the current most efficient/powerful combination. Where am I supposed to derive satisfaction from the knowledge that I am locking my equipment into a small range of minor variations? And before you say something like "just leave one forma off" - that's exactly the problem with things like Exilus; you can't.

[(PSN)OniWarrior]

How about,instead of a permanently "unlocked" slot that allows you to change polarity at will,forma-ing a slot allows you to choose 3 polarities to put on that slot, one for each loadout.

[DelialFallen]

-snip-

 

Your argument is based on 'I want this' and not logic nor reason.  You illustrate the point by arguing chiefly that it would be better.  That is one opinion.  You then ask me to explain how and why it would diminish gratification and satisfaction.  Merely because building something and working towards it is gratifying and satisfying I would think.  That is another opinion.

Edited August 5, 2015 by DelialFallen

[S7ORM]

[OP]

Forma'd slots should be able to change their polarity between all polarities that have ever been present on that slot.

So, an unpolarized slot forma'd twice (once for - and once for v) will be able to swap between no-polarity, v and - polarities.

While I wouldn't mind it, I don't see underclocking mods happening simply because of DE's viewpoint -- you have to spend time and materials to rank mods. If you want two of the same mod at different levels, you spend MORE time and resources. That's how it's going to stay.

[FelisImpurrator]

Your argument is based on 'I want this' and not logic nor reason.  You illustrate the point by arguing chiefly that it would be better.  That is one opinion.  You then ask me to explain how and why it would diminish gratification and satisfaction.  Merely because building something and working towards it is gratifying and satisfying I would think.  That is another opinion.

Wrong. My argument was made with thematic consistency, gameplay and build variety, accessibility, and the health of Warframe's (distinctly ailing) metagame in mind... as you may have noticed if you had actually read the entire thread without overlaying your preconceptions on it. And yet, you continue to respond with nothing but empty tautologies. (On that note, not once did I ever attempt to imply that the proposed change would not involve building something and working toward it, or that the concept you object to so strongly would take the form of an outright handout.)

 

I love upgrade systems. I love tinkering, spending hours looking through upgrade paths and build options, turning a boring piece of vanilla gear into something much greater. I also love being able to build up that gear the way I want to given enough time and effort. It is precisely because of this that I want the ability to not be forced down a fixed path, to have to live with decisions that restrict my choices going forward or else subject myself to double layers of grindwall solely for the sake of backtracking. I like working to move forward, not working twice as hard to go back or sideways. I also like enabling a variety of playstyles and options not just for myself, but for everyone who plays a game.

 

If you cannot understand this, I suggest you leave this thread and come back only when you're capable of reading posts without jumping to conclusions. Thank you very much.

Forma'd slots should be able to change their polarity between all polarities that have ever been present on that slot.

So, an unpolarized slot forma'd twice (once for - and once for v) will be able to swap between no-polarity, v and - polarities.

While I wouldn't mind it, I don't see underclocking mods happening simply because of DE's viewpoint -- you have to spend time and materials to rank mods. If you want two of the same mod at different levels, you spend MORE time and resources. That's how it's going to stay.

Hm. So you would have to forma a weapon a total of... 24 times assuming unpolarized to unlock every slot, and Warframes a few times more? Even considering the most likely practical number is closer to one-third or half that total at most, that degree of XP grind would only work if affinity gain were better paced and structured, to avoid encouraging even more Draco camps and the like. Even six forma on one weapon has a nasty tendency to drive people to the stationary XP mill. What if repolarizing an existing slot made it easier to gain XP for that weapon on that specific cycle, or reset it to a higher rank (10 for the second forma on one slot, 20 for the third)?

 

Underclocking... I keep hearing that it was discussed, just not what came of it. It may be waiting on the next major overhaul, or for some other systems to be changed to be able to support it. Although if it were really off the table, I would possibly be content with, say, a dropdown menu on each multi-copy mod that lets you choose which rank to put on, just for the sake of cleaning the mod page. Could have it set to not include unranked, for instance.

[DelialFallen]

I find that failing to see your argument is built on nothing except 'I want this to change' (no matter the length of your posts, examples, illustrations, alternative systems, that is what it boils down to) and then imply my responses to be 'empty tautologies' is very telling.

 

This little back and forth  has devolved into drivel and so I'll take my leave.

 

Good day and good luck.