How To Increase Arkwing Enjoy-Ability And Link The Relays, Arkwing, Extractors, The Player Ship, And Stealth Gameplay All At Once (Wip)

[Jamescell]

The foremost problem with the Arkwing system is not the actual system itself, but that Arkwing missions and rewards are isolated from other aspects of the game. Although Arkwing submersible has certainly blended the two game-systems of Arkwing and normal play, small pockets of underwater enemies are not motivation enough to work through the progression system of Arkwing itself. Below I will also write about possible game modes. Keep in mind that this system could be expanded, and is not just limited to the game modes I suggest.

Basic Concept: A close-to ideal way to improve Arkwing's enjoy-ability would be to give players open-world spherical areas of space where player-ships could drift and players could explore near each planet. Relays would be in the center of these maps. Each Tenno would have a private session that would let them explore free of other players (but up to four other players could join your session based on lobby settings). Such a system would not only give Warframe open-world options but also bring together exploration and Arkwing game play. Most importantly the following system would integrate Arkwing content with rewards that translate to normal missions.

Imagine logging in to your ship and looking out the window to see real space instead of just a background. You could then pilot your ship wherever you pleased or manually drive to the relay to dock and check up on things. Space would be filled with asteroids, debris and patrolling enemy (and perhaps hidden enemy outposts). You would be able to exit the Liset at any time with your Arkwing and do as you please. It is important to note that missions wouldn't be randomly occurring events, however, players would be able to seek put the mission type they wanted through a mission-log device and the location itself would be randomized.

Extractors: Not only would small, open-world bubbles-of-space allow for a more cohesive system between Arkwing missions and loitering, but also add opportunities to add immersion. Extractors would be made into real and deploy-able units that would fly through the outer reaches of relay-owned space and mine resources off of asteroids and floating debris . The extractors would have two modes. The first mode would be low-profile. Low profile mode would allow extractors to essentially function as they do now by using "stealth-programming" to remain undetected by enemy incursion forces (enemy factions would patrol space further from the relays). The second mode would be high-productivity, where the resource drone(s) in the area are much more productive but you have to defend them from encroaching enemy forces. Low profile mode would allow drones to take much less damage over time, but the only way to repair them would be to manually fly to their location and complete a repairing interaction. Players wold be able to collect their resources, however, as they always have through the map. Extractors would perhaps have a cool-down for high-productivity mode.

Open Missions: All Arkwing mission types would be reworked- not in terms of the missions themselves, but how they unfold. Players would no longer need to "enter" Arkwing missions. Missions would transpire naturally through interactions in space and the end of mission rewards screen would only show up once a player re-entered the Liset as opposed to at the end of every "mission" (however, players could check total resources collected and exp earned anytime in space). For examples, mobile defense would be played by defending your extractors while they mine in high-productivity mode. The more mining sites that the extractor successfully excavates the more resources and credits you receive. Instead of defending a certain amount of predetermined sites Tenno would be able to end the mission after successfully excavating any resource-site. Tenno would also be able to direct their drones to the area in which they want it to mine next while the extractor is in high-productivity mode.

Exterminate:

Exterminate missions would take on the form of one of the most basic and common mission types available. As mentioned earlier enemies would patrol around, and usually in groups. Upon reaching a somewhat close distance to a large patrol-force the Lotus would brief you that destroying all of the units will result in your being rewarded for whatever reason. The extermination objective would be optional. (This mission type rewards less than others in terms of end-of-mission bonuses.) There would also be larger-scale extermination missions where enemy factions send larger forces to attack the relay or things near the relay. These larger scale exterminations would be a chance-based event. The relays are perfectly capable of defending themselves, but stepping in to help with the defense saves relay resources- some of which are then diverted to your mail. (This mission type rewards higher amounts of rare materials in terms of end-of-mission resources).

Interception:

Interception missions would be combined with capture missions, and would be much more engaging and unique than they are now. Interception would involve enemy recon/VIP ships about five times the size of the Liset that are flying through the area. When available, the Lots will mark discovered enemy-movements on your mini-map. However, players do not have to be very near to the objective for the Lotus to start the mission (thus requiring more going-out-of-your-way). If players choose to pursue then their goal is to intercept the recon/VIP ship and break in somehow. The ship model and the breaking-in mechanics would vary based on the faction. Once inside the ship players detach from their Arkwings and, based on which version of the mission is being played, the player must either retrieve data from the ship's data banks or capture a wanted target. Retrieving data requires locating an access console (the correct console would be randomized) and hacking it to retrieve the data. Doing so without being detected gives players bonus rewards at the end of the mission. If the player is capturing a VIP target then they must hack through security measures to access the VIP's chambers and capture the target before he/she can use an escape pod (which they will try to use once alerted by the presence of Tenno.) Players must then escape the ship. (This mission type rewards higher amounts of credits than others in terms of end-of-mission bonuses).

Sabotage:

Other factions are powerful. How? They have resources! How? They take resources! Even though all locations on a map are relatively close to a relay other factions will have resource collection expeditions since the Tenno only really have a presence at the relays and not very much further out into space (map wise). Certain areas would have much more prevalent mining activity (further out areas). Travelling to these areas and sabotaging the escape-ships that allow mining units to return back to larger tankers/collectors will allow players to pick off the stranded miners and collect a small reward based on what was mined. (This mission type rewards higher amounts of common materials than others in terms of end-of-mission bonuses).

Final Details: In terms of multiplayer, players would be able to either enter space with solo, friends/invite only, or online mode (up to five players). Online mode would be a bit chaotic, as players aren't necessarily coordinated, but it would still be an option. As for the other lobby types, they make much more sense. One thing that I didn't really touch base one in detail is the idea of secret-outposts. Ideally, there would be miniature asteroid bases that contain research or storage facilities. These bases would not be visible from the exterior of the asteroid- save for a few details that an observant Tenno could spot. Inside these bases would be valuable resources/expensive rewards. However, these facilities would be designed to destroy their valuables in a moment's notice. Players would have to utilize stealth in order to maximize the (potentially very significant) reward available for plundering the facility. Once the enemy is alerted, however, they will begin to destroy the valuable items in the facility. For every second that players take reaching the valuables-cache while the enemy is alerted, precious rewards would be lost. These secretive facilities would respawn a few days after being plundered.

This concept is a very basic/bare bones version of what this system could eventually become. Eventually, players would perhaps be able to run full missions on ships that they fly to and break in without cut-scenes. Archwing play could allow for alternate routes to objectives, and aborting missions that take place on ships could simply be the player breaking a window and flying back to the Liset.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jamescell

[Jamescell]

I didn't mean to put this in general feedback. This should be under concepts. Could a moderator do that for me?

[Nelsoncell]

This concept is incredible. It will make Archwing a part of Warframe instead of a forgotten novelty. Players and anyone who helped develop Archwing nearly ten months ago would be happy to finally see that this failed concept can be extraordinary if integrated properly. There's a huge void of space games that DE should be pushing to fill.

[Archwizard]

I have been thinking a lot lately, that the reward system of Warframe definitely needs a strong revamp.

 

Presently players congregate over a handful of nodes for the majority of purposes; endless missions are more time-efficient for affinity, and feature an endless (hence the name) number of enemies from which to gather resources or mods. Extractors tried to address the need for resources, but since it only provides one kind per planet in bulk, it just became a very passive way of reaching your Alloy Plate cap. While Starchart 2.0 aims to eliminate the number of loot caves available, players will still likely congregate over whatever mission is most efficient that week. The key to addressing this issue is attacking what each mission type is good for - not simply creating decentive for Defense/Interception/Survival, but adding incentive for Exterminates and Sabotages like they did for Spy.

 

I feel like this concept is a step in that direction. You want resources? Set up your own mining colony. It can be more efficient in the long run for creating a cache to draw from, but if you need something right now because your Argon Crystals are about to evaporate, then you'll still have reason to make a pit-stop at your local Assassination or Dark Sector.

[lordpie]

This is a really really good idea just in general.  I will provide some feedback.

 

Feedback

All of these concepts are really well thought out.  They all make sense and definitely make archwing useful.  If these were implemented, warframe would develop a logic to its existence rather than mindlessly kill everyone at this node because why not.  It would give players reasons for playing certain archwing missions.  One thing for the extermination mission type that should be improved is the enemy  density.  As it stands, it is more exciting to do an exterminate mission on land than in space.  In space, the enemies are so far spread out with almost no interesting terrain.  Increasing the enemy density and types and amount of terrain would make it more interesting to play.  Also interacting with objects in space would be nice to make archwing in general more interesting.  Anyway, creating a sort of open world to interact with what you choose to do in the liset preserves player choice and would overall make the experience more fun.  For those of us who have played for a long time and seen everything in warframe and only do survival missions, this provides a good alternative to keep players interested.  These are all brilliant ideas.  Good job!

[Spikey844]

Keep preaching to the choir buddy. Hopefully we get something like this someday.

[CanadianWolverine]

I don't think this concept is feasible within the context provided by the game's current mission framework and network infrastructure. Your "rework" is essentially an entirely different game's architecture. There are technical limitations to the scope of Warframe that are the backbone of what makes it work with as many players as it does and your concept exceeds that scope, IMHO.

 

Find a way to scale your ideas back to work within the current games parameters, please. Otherwise, I really don't see how the Devs could reasonably afford to make a free to play game that incorporates your concepts as outlined here.

[Jamescell]

In what ways precisely does my concept stress the limitations of the game more than current content? I'm not understanding your thought process. 

[CanadianWolverine]

In what ways precisely does my concept stress the limitations of the game more than current content? I'm not understanding your thought process. 

 

Because if I understand it correctly, this concept is essentially a Navigation replacement that resembles other space faring games because we would be piloting our Lisets to the missions.

 

Purposefully or unwittingly, you just described say bare bones, toned down version of a game like Elite: Dangerous or Evochron Mercenary operating within Warframe, which just may be outside the scope of this game, since it is primarily focused on randomly generated instanced missions.

 

And I don't think we need to take up the Devs time and budget replacing a Navigation system that already works as intended. Instead of focusing on the journey through space, I think we should focus on the destinations in space or orbit or atmosphere or underwater for the Archwings to operate in.

 

[edit]*Snip*

Edited August 4, 2015 by CanadianWolverine

[Spikey844]

-snip-

Whether or not you think this is a good idea, don't advertise your concepts in his thread. This is about Jamescell's concept, not yours. You have your own thread for that.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Spikey844

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

Because if I understand it correctly, this concept is essentially a Navigation replacement that resembles other space faring games because we would be piloting our Lisets to the missions.

Purposefully or unwittingly, you just described say bare bones, toned down version of a game like Elite: Dangerous or Evochron Mercenary operating within Warframe, which just may be outside the scope of this game, since it is primarily focused on randomly generated instanced missions.

And I don't think we need to take up the Devs time and budget replacing a Navigation system that already works as intended. Instead of focusing on the journey through space, I think we should focus on the destinations in space or orbit or atmosphere or underwater for the Archwings to operate in.

Bad bad Canadian........ lol

Whether or not you think this is a good idea, don't advertise your concepts in his thread. This is about Jamescell's concept, not yours. You have your own thread for that.

Edited August 4, 2015 by (XB1)LordPuck

[CanadianWolverine]

Whether or not you think this is a good idea, don't advertise your concepts in his thread. This is about Jamescell's concept, not yours. You have your own thread for that.

 

*shrugs* It wasn't meant as an advertisement, it was meant as a line of reasoning. I've linked other people's threads in my posts before with no issue. But if you think that is a problem, I'll just edit it out of the post, please do the same to your quote, thank you.

[Jamescell]

This system would not replace the navigation system, but rather expand and integrate the Archwing system with other enjoyable game-features. Archwing missions wouldn't be on navigation, but all other missions would remain unaffected.

 

Again, not understanding your meaning of "scope". Do you mean thematically fitting with other game content? Do you mean the literal resources needed to provide such content? 

 

Of course, this system would be different from anything before it in terms of Warframe's development, but it would be an enjoyable addition to the game and, although different, would work very well with features already provided in game. This system would offer players new alternative experiences rather than the reality-contradicting tile set system. Again it wouldn't affect navigation or the normal on-planet tile sets. 

 

In terms of resources... it would require just as much "resources" as current servers do. If this is what you meant by scope then you're wrong plain and simple. DE can adjust the stress of player activities by scaling the rendered area.

[CanadianWolverine]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then, I think there is a significant difference in cost (budget, maintenance, man-hours, engine properties, bug-fixing, bandwidth and hosting requirements, etc) between "open-world spherical areas of space" and instanced randomly generated missions based on tilesets, regardless of whether its hosted by the player or not.

Edited August 5, 2015 by CanadianWolverine

[(XBOX)gnashermaster97]

i think that this system would be better suited to certain regions that you can access like any other mission(as in clicking on a mission node).

 

however i do think that this is a good idea, maybe these open world mission types could be in the asteroid belt(and on relays, but activated by reaching the relay navigation room.

 

maybe when you are in one of these open world nodes, and you are just looking about and fighting random grineer, there could be random caravans that you could protect for a good payoff in rarer resources and blueprints or you can choose to attack and get large amounts of more common resources as well as a chance to salvage some rare stuff off the wreckage?

[Jamescell]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then, I think there is a significant difference in cost (budget, maintenance, man-hours, engine properties, bug-fixing, bandwidth and hosting requirements, etc) between "open-world spherical areas of space" and instanced randomly generated missions based on tilesets, regardless of whether its hosted by the player or not.

Regardless of whether or not open world is more efficient or not, space is largely empty. Using an open-world system would be effective in this manner because the whole map would be in space. Again, space is largely empty. Regardless of whether or not the spawning layout is randomized or not, this still have to render. The stress on servers can be impacted by the rendering distance that the devs set. Furthermore, non-randomizing map systems are easier to load as they don't have to first be randomized.

[CanadianWolverine]

Regardless of whether or not open world is more efficient or not, space is largely empty. Using an open-world system would be effective in this manner because the whole map would be in space. Again, space is largely empty. Regardless of whether or not the spawning layout is randomized or not, this still have to render. The stress on servers can be impacted by the rendering distance that the devs set. Furthermore, non-randomizing map systems are easier to load as they don't have to first be randomized.

 

Then I would be against the concept for not being randomized and it being largely empty.

 

Missions are currently always something of a bit of tickle my exploration itch because they are randomized and part of the reason I so love going to a Archwing Interception is because its random as to what will make up the map.

 

I would argue that the Archwing gameplay needs more variety and things filling its mission area, not less, for its randomized missions to pick from a larger tileset that produces more and more unique play areas and challenges.

 

Open world is simply a different beast and there are many other games that already exist that service the desire for open worlds for a player to explore and then have procedurally generated content to boot as well. DE should capitilize on what sets Warframe apart from that crowd, not try to make a bland, faded out carbon copy.

[Jamescell]

I think you misunderstand the nature of space. Even when filled with content and features it is largely empty... It seems like your just trying to find ways to object. Space, by its very nature, is mostly empty. If it were as crowded as you want it to be flying ships around would be nearly impossible.

As far as less variety.... Nothing in my post indicates such remarks. I'm not sure what you're talking about. There could be even more game modes than there are now- they would just work in immersive ways and coalesce naturally. Instead of "enter, do this one thing, extract, reward" all separated by cutscenes. And chance-based missions would be very rare, as adding even more RNG to gameplay would cause more problems.if you go to certain locations you would be sure to find certain missions. Saame goes for capture missions, you would be able to seek these things out and be guaranteed the opportunity to play such missions. Most likely through a mission log of some kind.

Its funny that you should say that randomized maps are what makes Warframe unique. You're absolutely wrong. There are plenty of randomizing map games out there. Also, Archwing as it currently stands has maps that ARE mostly empty because they take place in SPACE which is largely EMPTY. Randomizing a few boulders doesn't really add much to the idea of exploration when the only things being randomized are the locations of a few close-together components.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jamescell

[CanadianWolverine]

*sighs* I am not being unreasonable and what I am posting is within context. If you seem dead set to not hear a dissenting opinion, I will have to just excuse myself from this thread.

[Jamescell]

*sighs* I am not being unreasonable and what I am posting is within context. If you seem dead set to not hear a dissenting opinion, I will have to just excuse myself from this thread.

Dissenting views are welcome, but I expect that such points are truly insightful or reasonable. If I deem them not to be I find it perfectly okay to give counterarguments that highlight why I think a criticism doesn't have validity.