Stealth Glitches; Reasons Why Stealth Is Mostly Dead In Warframe

[Renegade343]

Huh, I wasn't aware of that. I'll have to load up Loki and give it a shot. I thought it was only a +100% bonus?

It goes up to +500% Stealth Kill Affinity Multiplier, meaning a simple unit like the Lancer can net up to 900+ Affinity, heavy units up to 10000+ Affinity. 

[Vorpal_Ocelot]

I've never made it through a spy mission without being detected atleast once because some random thing mentioned above.

 

I take my time, I can use loki or ash, silent weapons....

I can use the Codex Scanner to see through walls for enemy position...

I can use Ghost sentinel to cloke me even more..

I stay crouched behind objects and use camera angle...

 

Somehow, someone always sees me, sometimes it happens through a door, or a drahk master sees me instantly or it's dogs instantly find me.

 

Nothing works...

 

I've had drahk dogs attack and find me WHILE I was cloaked with Loki, whats goin on??

 

While were on the subject, shouldn't crouch-walking look more awesome? I mean if we're going to "spy" around, why can't crouch walking look more awesome? Like the new "zipline" walking animation looks more like stealth walking that crouching and walking does...

 

Enemy attention never "resets" aftert he alarm, like you said, the next few rooms will stay on alert as if theyve seen you even if youve never beenin those rooms after an alert was set off then disabled.

 

"They don't suspect a thing" Lotus says after I disable an alarm...but the next two rooms will have grinner in cover, and they open fire instantly even if they don't make a visual spot on me.

 

Time for Stealth 2.0 in my opinion.

 

Crouch+walking gets better animations, Grineer's sight of view gets nerfed down, Sneak attacks happen ANYTIME your behind an enemy, even if they are attacking your friend... because if your behind them, thats fair stealth attack game in my book.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Vorpal_Ocelot

[Aekhon]

Enemy attention never "resets" aftert he alarm, like you said, the next few rooms will stay on alert as if theyve seen you even if youve never beenin those rooms after an alert was set off then disabled.

 

"They don't suspect a thing" Lotus says after I disable an alarm...but the next two rooms will have grinner in cover, and they open fire instantly even if they don't make a visual spot on me.

Lotus's input during a mission rarely has any basis in fact.  She'll tell me nobody knows I'm there when I'm actively being shot at.  She'll tell me Grineer are coming on an exterminate mission when everybody's already dead.  Lately (as of U17), on Crossfire missions, she'll tell me I'm supposed to work with the Corpus to kill the Grineer, but she apparently didn't bother to tell the Corpus that, because they still shoot at me (like they're supposed to).

 

Anyway, yeah, I've also noticed that enemy alertness doesn't reset after alarms.  I'm not sure it really should.  Think about it - you're guarding an outpost and a general alarm goes off in the next room.  You and your allies take up positions around the door, weapons raised to deal with the threat should it make it into your room.  You hear sounds of battle through the door.  Gunfire, panic, screams, bodies falling, possibly explosions.  Eventually, the sounds of battle die out, then the alarm abruptly quiets.  Would you assume that the threat has been dealt with just because the alarm was silenced, or would you keep your gun pointed at that door until it opened and you saw an ally?

[Recel]

Anyway, yeah, I've also noticed that enemy alertness doesn't reset after alarms.  I'm not sure it really should.  Think about it - you're guarding an outpost and a general alarm goes off in the next room.  You and your allies take up positions around the door, weapons raised to deal with the threat should it make it into your room.  You hear sounds of battle through the door.  Gunfire, panic, screams, bodies falling, possibly explosions.  Eventually, the sounds of battle die out, then the alarm abruptly quiets.  Would you assume that the threat has been dealt with just because the alarm was silenced, or would you keep your gun pointed at that door until it opened and you saw an ally?

 

While that's true, Warframe is still a game. Realism doesn't always equals fun.

 

The biggest problems with stealth is inconsistency of detection, hive mind detection and never resetting alert states. To be more precise, the problem is we have all three at once.

 

If detection would be logical an intuitive (no "I saw you whit my shin" or X-ray vision through a pipe) than we could have never resetting alert states, because than you would have the control over being detected. You could also count with HOW alerted enemies "see" the world and still get them even if with more trouble than before.

 

If we wouldn't have hive mind detection than a lot more weapon options, and a lot more manageable scenarios would open. Like quickly shooting the guy who spotted you before he could alert the others. No more problems with shots that didn't instantly kill the target, just quickly deliver another one!

 

We could also keep instant and inconsistent detection, but than we could give the player an option to reset the status properly. If you can't rely on logic or any background knowledge to tell who can see you and who can't, at least the option to give it another go should be properly there.

 

 

But currently the "stealth" system is just not there. Which can be irritating when you have mission types built on being undetected (even if you could argue it's still easier than a regular mission due to the lower amount of units in a data vault/prison). 

[DoomFruit]

Another issue is that of automatic, terrible stealth kill animations. The worst offender is probably the sword and shield stealth kill, which sends both you and your target 5 metres forwards. If you're trying to pick off a patrol silently, working from the back, that's it. Stealth time is over.

I do not know why the stealth kill prompt hasn't been moved to a different key (the use key, for instance). This should have been done YEARS ago.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

You can switch your camera view from Left to Right. I mapped this to my thumb stick so when I double click it I can switch sides. Really handy in saddling up to a door jamb, or getting a better angle to attack from.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

Another issue is that of automatic, terrible stealth kill animations. The worst offender is probably the sword and shield stealth kill, which sends both you and your target 5 metres forwards. If you're trying to pick off a patrol silently, working from the back, that's it. Stealth time is over. I do not know why the stealth kill prompt hasn't been moved to a different key (the use key, for instance). This should have been done YEARS ago.

thanks, added this to the topic list.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

My major problem is trying to hack but I'm sliding to a stop or just a little out of reach but can still hack anyways but the game auto fails you or disengages you triggering the purge -_-

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

added a link to a stealth 2.0 concept I've been working on. hope you guys like it.

[Renseiryuu]

Found some kind of use of Drahk's super detection ability....I think.

I used Shade with both Ghost and Revenge mods maxed to tackle nightmare spy mission just now. When the mission started, while I'm checking the distance between me and the enemies, I found the Drahks running towards me in full speed. At first, I was about to say "fuuuuuu-----", but changed my mind when the Shade turn me invisible. The Drahks keep following me wherever I go, but at least they didn't attack me.

I thought that I should keep my cover until it ran out. After that, I just need to eliminate those Drahks along with their master and think the rest there.

 

But when I realized that the invisibility never fades as long as there are enemies around and I didn't attack at all, my thought then turned "what if I lure the Drahks to the data vault?"

And the rest should be obvious. I brought them to the vault, take the data from each vaults, almost without being detected except from the sensor bar or when I was forced to shoot the switch/secret door on the vault. And when i got caught like that, all I need to do is just to enroute the Drahks,  survive for a few seconds, and BAM! ....the invisibility returned. Just like that, I finished Nightmare Alert Spy just now and got the reward mod from it.

 

Note : Despite that, I restarted the mission 3 times because I either mess up or because the native kubrows attacked the drahks. In those 3 retries, sometimes the Drahks didn't follow me at all when I turned invisible (1 out of 3 tries), so perhaps some other factors are counted here.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

Found some kind of use of Drahk's super detection ability....I think.

I used Shade with both Ghost and Revenge mods maxed to tackle nightmare spy mission just now. When the mission started, while I'm checking the distance between me and the enemies, I found the Drahks running towards me in full speed. At first, I was about to say "fuuuuuu-----", but changed my mind when the Shade turn me invisible. The Drahks keep following me wherever I go, but at least they didn't attack me.

I thought that I should keep my cover until it ran out. After that, I just need to eliminate those Drahks along with their master and think the rest there.

 

But when I realized that the invisibility never fades as long as there are enemies around and I didn't attack at all, my thought then turned "what if I lure the Drahks to the data vault?"

And the rest should be obvious. I brought them to the vault, take the data from each vaults, almost without being detected except from the sensor bar or when I was forced to shoot the switch/secret door on the vault. And when i got caught like that, all I need to do is just to enroute the Drahks,  survive for a few seconds, and BAM! ....the invisibility returned. Just like that, I finished Nightmare Alert Spy just now and got the reward mod from it.

 

Note : Despite that, I restarted the mission 3 times because I either mess up or because the native kubrows attacked the drahks. In those 3 retries, sometimes the Drahks didn't follow me at all when I turned invisible (1 out of 3 tries), so perhaps some other factors are counted here.

that's just..........wow

you may want to create another topic about that glitch.

[Aizeol]

This isn't a solution to the door problem, but I've found that most of the time you can open the door by standing right next to it, and not be seen.

 

Again, I feel that scanners should detect maybe 3-5 meters on the other side of the door if possible.  Just enough so that you can see when an enemy is about to open the door.

[Renseiryuu]

that's just..........wow

you may want to create another topic about that glitch.

 

Perhaps I will after I was able to record it (I kind of regret not recording it this morning). Just to let you guys knows that this kind of "feat/exploit/glitch" is existed. If any of you are able to encounter this and reproduce the situation, while also recording it, then by all means, please start the topic about it. This might either become:

1. One of the countermeasure for the glitchy stealth.

2. A trigger for DE to release Stealth 2.0 (yeah right lol)

Edited August 7, 2015 by Renseiryuu

[Recel]

This isn't a solution to the door problem, but I've found that most of the time you can open the door by standing right next to it, and not be seen.

 

Again, I feel that scanners should detect maybe 3-5 meters on the other side of the door if possible.  Just enough so that you can see when an enemy is about to open the door.

 

That can work, but with those wide doors, or the doors where the side is obstructed the issue of what is on the other side still exists, as mobs can be on th far side an see you, or you can't open the door from the side like usual.

 

Though another "band-aid" solution to the problem is a lot of punch through and enemy sense... and Tigris. Because Tigris is a stealth shotgun.

[DoomFruit]

Found some kind of use of Drahk's super detection ability....I think.

I used Shade with both Ghost and Revenge mods maxed to tackle nightmare spy mission just now. When the mission started, while I'm checking the distance between me and the enemies, I found the Drahks running towards me in full speed. At first, I was about to say "fuuuuuu-----", but changed my mind when the Shade turn me invisible. The Drahks keep following me wherever I go, but at least they didn't attack me.

I thought that I should keep my cover until it ran out. After that, I just need to eliminate those Drahks along with their master and think the rest there.

But when I realized that the invisibility never fades as long as there are enemies around and I didn't attack at all, my thought then turned "what if I lure the Drahks to the data vault?"

And the rest should be obvious. I brought them to the vault, take the data from each vaults, almost without being detected except from the sensor bar or when I was forced to shoot the switch/secret door on the vault. And when i got caught like that, all I need to do is just to enroute the Drahks,  survive for a few seconds, and BAM! ....the invisibility returned. Just like that, I finished Nightmare Alert Spy just now and got the reward mod from it.

Note : Despite that, I restarted the mission 3 times because I either mess up or because the native kubrows attacked the drahks. In those 3 retries, sometimes the Drahks didn't follow me at all when I turned invisible (1 out of 3 tries), so perhaps some other factors are counted here.

Shade's stealth isn't permanent. It expires after something like 60s and will need to be triggered again after a cooldown (these numbers are from the top of my head, I haven't measured them with any accuracy yet).

[Caine2112]

I agree with just about everything you typed up, OP.  You got my +1.

[Xardis]

For your info there was about 1.5 year ago megathread about stealth, many htings from that are not in the game but affinity for kills is. i support that steath should be bigger par to the game sice we are ninjas. Make AI more realistic.

[DoomFruit]

thanks, added this to the topic list.

My main issue here was with the forced automatic special stealth kill move with no option to just do a normal melee attack. When enemies die in one hit from your stealth bonus damage, having to sit through a long, unskippable animation every single time you kill something is just painful.

And if you need to take out this last member of a patrol before the next one comes around the corner, watching your character twirl their weapon around needlessly while the enemies stand and stare at you is utterly rage-inducing.

Again, special stealth kills need to be on a separate button, such as the use key.

[Renseiryuu]

Shade's stealth isn't permanent. It expires after something like 60s and will need to be triggered again after a cooldown (these numbers are from the top of my head, I haven't measured them with any accuracy yet).

Nah, it could last more than that.

 

https://youtu.be/ZHSz5Dzhz-I

 

I didn't know how long it could held had I didn't try to stealth kill, but at the very least, 2 minutes is quite long to traverse the area on a spy mission. And the cooldown takes about 10 seconds as long as you didn't get hit.

EDIT: When I tried to stay still, the invisibility did only last about a minute, just like you said. Perhaps we need to continue moving or changing the enemies that triggered the Ghost? Well, in any case, that's all I found so far. Will tell more once I got another finding.

 

EDIT 2:

https://youtu.be/PaPtqZuAJL0

 

Around 10 minutes invisibility should be enough to finish a spy mission, right?

Edited August 7, 2015 by Renseiryuu

[MopUpCrewman]

Don't forget the X-Ray vision on enemies.

They will also instantly detect you if you're standing right behind them and your invisibility comes off. At least that's what happens with Huras. Don't really use Loki or Ash.

[Bipp]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but enemy AI functions like a hive-mind. Hek, enemy AI IS a hive-mind.

Also, the complete lack of stealth routes in ordinary tilesets. There is NOWHERE to hide and NOWHERE and NO WAY to skirt around enemies in the shadows.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

edited

[Cruzifixio]

For me, the worst is that I just can't really tell how and where the enemies are looking.

 

I remember a game (don't really remember the name) where enemies would have a red light coming from their helmets, indicating their range and direction of view, that would go off once you're discovered.

A visual cue like that would make sneaking 100 percent better, Also, a cover system that would ensure you can hide behind a box without the enemy randomly noticing you would be nice.

[Liminal]

Also that prompt.... sigh. I lost count of the number of times it disappears just as I press melee and I end up using a standard swing.

 

I'd change the "stealth kill" key to USE instead of MELEE ATTACK.

[Recel]

I would like some feedback on this from other players, but the past two days it seems like some enemies spawn in alerted?

 

I do the stealth mission as usual, taking down enemies from far and in one shot, I advance a few tiles and suddenly I'm being shot at by a single Grineer lancer/Corpus crewman and always from afar, which of course suddenly alerts everyone else. They couldn't have became alerted from noise and since it's a new room there are no corpses to alert them either. They are always far away, so x-ray or not, they are too far for me to be in their spot range.

 

Before if I was careful I could go through the entire mission unseen, but now I simply can't because Mr. X-ray Vision John spotted me a room ahead from a few hundred meters through solid walls and doors as soon as the void gave birth to him.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Recel