It Doesn't Matter How Much You Buff Rhino's Armor

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

I use Redirection, maxed barrier on helm and syandana and guardian from sentinels; That's the only way to tank with rhino, which doesn't mean i can be reckless, but if i'm shooting back my health won't ever get touched.

 

I see iron skin as a way to avoid knockdowns, but you are right, there should be other ways if he's truly meant to be a tank.

[tinyranitar]

I use Redirection, maxed barrier on helm and syandana and guardian from sentinels; That's the only way to tank with rhino, which doesn't mean i can be reckless, but if i'm shooting back my health won't ever get touched.

 

I see iron skin as a way to avoid knockdowns, but you are right, there should be other ways if he's truly meant to be a tank.

But any warframe with base 450 Shield could be a tank that way

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

But any warframe with base 450 Shield could be a tank that way

Yup, I use said setup with volt p, frost p, mag p and rhino p, would use with zephyr but turbulence is more than enough.

[Orakan]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/501238-rhino-20/#entry5606247
check my topic for all the wrong things about rhino

[RealPandemonium]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/501238-rhino-20/#entry5606247

check my topic for all the wrong things about rhino

I laughed.

[tinyranitar]

Rhino is not that bad. He is just not that good.

 

Tbh CC-Immune is what makes Rhino so strong. This is why he is the prime candidate when I go on boss fight such as Lephantis or Ruk, and No shield/Vampire mode nightmare.

 

But other than that, it's true he is a little lackluster

[(PSN)StillbornKumquat]

 

The point is, Rhino charge is a 1 skill, so it has to be underpowered compare to his other three, but I find more use for that than Roar tbh

 

 

Ideas for Roars:

 

Rhino unleashe a deafening roar, reeling back enemies and reduce their damage, as well as increasing his. Can be recast while active. Both Duration is affected by power duration, damage reduction and increase is affected by Power strength. Range is static 25 meters

 

Piercing Roar is changed to Disarming Roar, gives 75% chance to disarm affected enemy (each has a 75% roll, not 75% disarming all of them) in the maxed rank.

 

Why not 100%? Loki gets Radial Disarm spam which is made better with Irradiating Disarm that rips off Chaos for Nyx. And he has invisibility to boot. If you're gonna give Rhino consideration with utility then just give him a 100% proc for an AOE at max rank. He'd be WAY more interesting to play at that point.

[tinyranitar]

It's an augment. And it also reduce damage and boost yours, so it'd be a little too OP I guess?

[(PSN)StillbornKumquat]

It's an augment. And it also reduce damage and boost yours, so it'd be a little too OP I guess?

Yeah it's an augment so it'd be replacing another mod in limited mod slots we all have for builds, which acts as the sole handicap shared by augments. I kinda don't think it'd be OP because it would make up for the loss of effectiveness with Iron Skin in the late game. Additionally as far as team support, now you wouldn't have to rely on a Loki to provide permanent disarms. You could have a Rhino in his place giving the added benefit of damage output increase as well as a limited crowd control function. Irradiating Disarm is already massively OP if you put it in the frame of a person who maximizes for that particular Loki build. Giving a little bit of that power to another frame doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

[Kevo149]

I feel like if they want to make iron skin good it needs to work like this.

 

Iron skin reduces dmg by 20/30/40% (damage reduction caps at 90%),also scales with power str. 

 

So basically the skill will act the same as it is now, but it will have set hp(maybe 1 or 2k hp  at max rank) but reduce the damage you take while the skin is on your body. That might be a little OP but it can be fine tuned by the devs if they wanted to go a tank route with him. 

Edited August 8, 2015 by Kevo149

[tinyranitar]

Yeah it's an augment so it'd be replacing another mod in limited mod slots we all have for builds, which acts as the sole handicap shared by augments. I kinda don't think it'd be OP because it would make up for the loss of effectiveness with Iron Skin in the late game. Additionally as far as team support, now you wouldn't have to rely on a Loki to provide permanent disarms. You could have a Rhino in his place giving the added benefit of damage output increase as well as a limited crowd control function. Irradiating Disarm is already massively OP if you put it in the frame of a person who maximizes for that particular Loki build. Giving a little bit of that power to another frame doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

Yeah it'd make sense, since it cannot be recast while active anyway.

[PsychoTech.ARMS]

I would personally like to see something different to Rhino Charge. add to it like they did with Excal's Slash Dash. as he goes from point A to B he swings his fists at them with a 100%  knockdown for a certain duration. which will open up for ground finishers. maybe throw in a percentage of a chance to cause a 100% Blast proc that would just knock them off the map.

 

For his armor... I don't know anymore lol.. There are so many debates that are ranging from pointless to well thought out logic with the intent of them all towards something good. weather they are good or bad, I'm glad that it's at least being discussed and ideas are being said.

 

 I do agree that buffing his armor up just a bit doesn't really do much at all... it's just like making Piercing Roar augment last 10 seconds instead of 6... it's an improvement yes... but still far from being viable.

Edited August 8, 2015 by PsychoTechARMS

[tinyranitar]

I think combing Rhino Charge with Rhino Stomp could be a good idea. Instead of a stationary Stomp, with his 4 Rhino would gain movement Speed and causing Shockwave everywhere he goes with the interval of 0.4 sec, draining energy like WoF does. Struck enemies are thrown in the air like regular stomp does, but their descending speed only are slowed by 40%. Enemies held in stasis are not launched into the air again, but still takes damage. At the end of the skill, Rhino unleashe a violent shockwave, slaming all enemies down onto the ground and slow their get-up time by 40%.

 

IronClad charge would improve armor for Rhino for each enemy affected, but only stack 3 times.

 

His first skill would be Rhino's Scream:

 

A frontal roar (shape like Icewave) will stagger and reduce the armor of the enemies affected by it and draw the aggro. Mediocre damage.

 

Iron Skin:

 

His Iron Skin would gains 1200 Ferrite Armor, and a bonus on how much Armor Rhino has. This will make him CC immune like before, but when Iron Skin is destroyed, Rhino has a slight CC immune period, affected by power duration.

 

Roar:

 

Roar will unleashe a sonic blast around Rhino, reducing damage of affected enemies and damage them, while increasing his and his allies'. Piercing Roar will further decrease their damage with puncture proc and affected by power duartion.

[shoopypit]

Don't forget the rhino charge augment that boosts armor. I used to get 600% with that thing at 190 armor! Now rhino Cam be a vanguard provided you use ironclad charge. Iron skin becomes cc ability with the augment. Try to play rhino with his new toys and then tell me he isn't awesome.

it shouldn't take augment mods for an ability to be useful/good. the augments should be there for a new style of play for the ability. if the ability isn't useful it should be redone, not a band-aide. 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

But why be naked with really tough skin while you can wear Iron Skin?

Arcane Avenger?

Iron skin doesn't count as damage taken (Currently Iron Skin gimps Acranes that trigger from incoming damage on PS4)

Without Iron skin, Arcane Avenger + Iron Clad Charge pair well with a Rage+Life-strike Melee or shooting build.

[tinyranitar]

Arcane Avenger?

Iron skin doesn't count as damage taken (Currently Iron Skin gimps Acranes that trigger from incoming damage on PS4)

Without Iron skin, Arcane Avenger + Iron Clad Charge pair well with a Rage+Life-strike Melee or shooting build.

Then why run Avenger on him in the first place. Ugh.

[Ronyn]

What's funny is that at this point Rhino is the only actual tank frame who doesn't inherently take armor into account for his defensive power.

Frosts snowglobe takes armor into account, Chroma's vex armor takes armor into account and then buffs it, valkyr's warcry buffs her already high armor value.

 

So when folks say that iron skin shouldn't take rhino's armor into account I can't help but feel like he is being singled out.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

What's funny is that at this point Rhino is the only actual tank frame who doesn't inherently take armor into account for his defensive power.

Frosts snowglobe takes armor into account, Chroma's vex armor takes armor into account and then buffs it, valkyr's warcry buffs her already high armor value.

So when folks say that iron skin shouldn't take rhino's armor into account I can't help but feel like he is being singled out.

Trinity Blessing .... Tanks damage without the need for Armor to buffed.

If Ironskin worked like a self-only Blessing would Armor really matter?

Then why run Avenger on him in the first place. Ugh.

I would say because Arcane Avenger is amazing, due to Flat Crit chance buff on all weapons....making it better than the benefits of Iron Skin for longer gameplay.

Building for Ironclad Charge with Armor is a more dedicated build than an Iron Skin build.

I find Iron skin akin to God-mode for most star-chart missions.

For Endless, I experince better results with High Armor build(Iron Clad Charge, Vitality, Power Strength + Duration , Range,coupled with Iron Skin as my 'Rapid Resilience' and Arcane Avenger.

I find using Iron Skin as a Cleanse and Iron clad charge as the face tanking ability...works better for me. Stomp is still the emergency ability.(1 lucky Ironclad Charge can boost Armor well above Valkyr's obtainable armor)

If there is a Trinity using Blessing....Iron Skin is useless as Blessing does not protect Iron Skin...

Sort of like Hysteria vs Life-Strike melee w/ Eternal War.

(Hysteria does not need the survivability mods because God-mode....but the damage suffers from being locked into a short range...awkward attacking melee combos)

Edited August 11, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Ronyn]

Trinity Blessing .... Tanks damage without the need for Armor to buffed.

The reason I said "actual tank frame" is because I am referring to frames who were initially designed for that purpose.

Trinity was quite blatantly built to be a support/healer. We, the player base, realized how awesome she is at being a tank so we ran with it.

That said, armor creates damage reduction on health. This synergies right into with both link and blessing even though it doesn't directly amplify it.

Of course trinities base armor rating is basically non existent so I'd never claim that armor had anything to do with her high resilience.

Zephyr, Mesa, Mirage and Nekros (with an augment) are also frames not initially meant to be tanks that have powers that give them great resilience. There powers don't work off of armor either....but again. I was pointing out how the intended tanks work.

 

 

If Ironskin worked like a self-only Blessing would Armor really matter?

No it wouldn't matter in terms of effective resilience. Though I don't see why we would avoid going with the common armor-matters-to-tanks-precedent just to to give rhino a personal version of some other frames power.

 

 

(1 lucky Ironclad Charge can boost Armor well above Valkyr's obtainable armor)

Hypothetically yes, in certain situations yes but consistently.....well that is heavily dependent on how much the enemies cluster up so you can hit several of them in a single charge every so many seconds.

[(PSN)abb12355]

lol

I said "not getting hit" it doesn't mean "dodging"

Invisibility/globe/electric shield are just better than iron skin in the perspective of "avoiding damage"

Or just make iron skin a "moving snow globe" with invulnerable time that build up HP like snow globe?

*Cough cough* Turbulence

lol

I said "not getting hit" it doesn't mean "dodging"

Invisibility/globe/electric shield are just better than iron skin in the perspective of "avoiding damage"

Or just make iron skin a "moving snow globe" with invulnerable time that build up HP like snow globe?

*cough cough* Turbulence

[tinyranitar]

What's funny is that at this point Rhino is the only actual tank frame who doesn't inherently take armor into account for his defensive power.

Frosts snowglobe takes armor into account, Chroma's vex armor takes armor into account and then buffs it, valkyr's warcry buffs her already high armor value.

 

So when folks say that iron skin shouldn't take rhino's armor into account I can't help but feel like he is being singled out.

The man who gets my point.

 

Trinity Blessing .... Tanks damage without the need for Armor to buffed.

If Ironskin worked like a self-only Blessing would Armor really matter?

I would say because Arcane Avenger is amazing, due to Flat Crit chance buff on all weapons....making it better than the benefits of Iron Skin for longer gameplay.

Building for Ironclad Charge with Armor is a more dedicated build than an Iron Skin build.

I find Iron skin akin to God-mode for most star-chart missions.

For Endless, I experince better results with High Armor build(Iron Clad Charge, Vitality, Power Strength + Duration , Range,coupled with Iron Skin as my 'Rapid Resilience' and Arcane Avenger.

I find using Iron Skin as a Cleanse and Iron clad charge as the face tanking ability...works better for me. Stomp is still the emergency ability.(1 lucky Ironclad Charge can boost Armor well above Valkyr's obtainable armor)

If there is a Trinity using Blessing....Iron Skin is useless as Blessing does not protect Iron Skin...

Sort of like Hysteria vs Life-Strike melee w/ Eternal War.

(Hysteria does not need the survivability mods because God-mode....but the damage suffers from being locked into a short range...awkward attacking melee combos)

I use Arcane Awakening on him. It's pretty good, you should try it on Brakk.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

The reason I said "actual tank frame" is because I am referring to frames who were initially designed for that purpose.

Trinity was quite blatantly built to be a support/healer. We, the player base, realized how awesome she is at being a tank so we ran with it.

That said, armor creates damage reduction on health. This synergies right into with both link and blessing even though it doesn't directly amplify it.

Of course trinities base armor rating is basically non existent so I'd never claim that armor had anything to do with her high resilience.

Zephyr, Mesa, Mirage and Nekros (with an augment) are also frames not initially meant to be tanks that have powers that give them great resilience. There powers don't work off of armor either....but again. I was pointing out how the intended tanks work.

No it wouldn't matter in terms of effective resilience. Though I don't see why we would avoid going with the common armor-matters-to-tanks-precedent just to to give rhino a personal version of some other frames power.

Hypothetically yes, in certain situations yes but consistently.....well that is heavily dependent on how much the enemies cluster up so you can hit several of them in a single charge every so many seconds.

Wasn't Rhino's Iron Skin an effective invincibility God mode - initially only to get needed balanced

[At that time it would have been self-cast blessing without the heal*]

I do strongly agree with Iron Skin scaling with Armor as that would add better synergy from his Armor stat and Iron Clad Charge.

Side-note: Arcane Awakening for 60% Damage on Secondary vs Flat 30% crit chance for all weapons (Including Critless weapons)....I'll take the latter.

Edited August 12, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Ronyn]

Wasn't Rhino's Iron Skin an effective invincibility God mode - initially only to get needed balanced

[At that time it would have been self-cast blessing without the heal*]

It was, and since back then blessing was also just invincibility and a heal....one could call that blessing without a heal.

Now blessing works by granting percentage of damage reduction based on someones lost health....

Which I guess is sort of like chroma's vex armor in a certain sense ways. hmm.

 

 

I do strongly agree with Iron Skin scaling with Armor as that would add better synergy from his Armor stat and Iron Clad Charge.

Exactly.

[tinyranitar]

Side-note: Arcane Awakening for 60% Damage on Secondary vs Flat 30% crit chance for all weapons (Including Critless weapons)....I'll take the latter.

Uhm... Yeah, I do agree. Though I must say CC-Immunity and health buffer plus 60% damage on secondary is better than flat 30% crit chance without CC immunity and health buffer

[tinyranitar]

It was, and since back then blessing was also just invincibility and a heal....one could call that blessing without a heal.

Now blessing works by granting percentage of damage reduction based on someones lost health....

Which I guess is sort of like chroma's vex armor in a certain sense ways. hmm.

Blessing is kinda different, since it grants the whole team that benefit.

 

Iron Skin is making you taking for the whole team, so I think Aggro mechanic maybe good.