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Why I Don't Think We Should Get A Vacuum Kubrow.


Bio-Organic-Yahn
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Reading through forums, looking through youtube, and twitter, and wiki. . . I find that a large part of our player base is disappointed with Chesa. 

 

While I understand and agree that Chesa should be changed, I strongly oppose the specific proposal to turn Chesa into a vacuum, like carrier is now.

 

My best friend, who prefers all sentinels to kubrows (thematically and in use), expressed that with the increasing popularity of kubrows, he would be grateful if sentinels retained their value; not to mention with the business model of WF, some people could've spent actual currency. This means each kubrow, and each sentinel, will retain their own unique qualities; not only within their seperate categories, but among all companions.

 

I agree. 

 

I am confident enough to wager my friend represents at least a portion of our player base, and therefore their interests.

 

If these players get what they want for Chesa, we will have a higher damage, disarming vacuum dog; a complete upgrade from Carrier, at least I would say.

 

My Proposals And Request: 

We have so many options to improve this kubrow. My first thought would be to give Chesa's retrieve ability a % chance to either reap better loot from crates, or upgrade a mod it picks up (or y'know, both). This % can be as low or as high as DE wants, though I really don't think anyone will consider these suggestions, regardless of my hopes

Nekros' Desecrate, Pilfering Swarm, and Magnetic Pull augment (still useful for mag herself), all suggest DE is willing to aid our efforts in earning our loot; if this is true I suggest the above.

 

A different method, still similar to better loot chances. Allow Chesa's Retrieve to be useful for combat, in combat, and while combating. . . 

Joking aside, what if Chesa could steal items from enemies as it attacks them? This could be expressed in any combination of: %chance for things to drop, amount of times this ability will be applied with attack, can't be used on the same enemy more than once, or even add additional damage, or lack of ammo, or jamming (I see so much potential in this kubrow.)

The goal for this application could be something like a chance at loot drops before the enemy dies. This means we get two chances at this one enemy the kubrow chooses. That sounds fair enough right? Especially with current single targeting

 

Minimally less related: I see this kubrow as an opportunity to improve NPC intelligence. Even if we only do it with Chesa, which is really all I'm suggesting, what about an AI that allows it to travel far away from the tenno, seeking every gorram crate in the map. You can have anything the kubrow picks up instantly in your inventory, or have it hold a cache, like the suggestion in another post for Chesa. This can tie with the other suggestions, if people/DE wants it. 

 

 

These are my suggestions. I don't expect much of a response, but I'd like these to be considered and refined by better minds. 

If you don't like these, my request is for you to use this thread to make alternative suggestions to the vacuum kubrow. My hopes are for us to create a more refined, unique, fun, and useful kubrow when compared to our current Chesa. Carrier just got a prime, and I feel Vacuum Kubrow will over-shadow that.

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I saw an idea for carrier some time ago. That idea was for carrier to instantly pick up all ammo, energy, and health and fill up an "inventory" inside of itself, so that it can distribute as necessary rather than only being able to pull stuff when you need it. I thought this was a great idea and frankly I'd still love to see carrier get it- BUT. Perhaps adding this to Chesa rather than strapping a hoover to it would give it the utility it needs to be good while allowing carrier to remain special.

 

I also approve of your ideas in a way- just let it get more/better loot from whatever enemies it kills.

 

I would say more but honestly I haven't seen it for myself in game so I can't be a fair judge- not to mention that I am still completely clueless as to how it's disarm ability works.

Edited by Stratego89
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As I said in one post, if that Kubrow starts acting like Kirby and begins sucking in everything, I'll be terrified/amused. In all seriousness though, I think it shouldn't be like the carrier. As you said, it would just overshadow the sentinel.

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I would say more but honestly I haven't seen it for myself in game so I can't be a fair judge- not to mention that I am still completely clueless as to how it's disarm ability works.

Full disclosure, I haven't either. Hopefully I didn't go over the line of assumption. Tried to say IMO as much as possible haha.

 

That being said, I want this to be my favorite type of puppy. I did my best to only talk about things I could observe.

 

(Edit: glad to see these replies, thank you!)

Edited by Bio-Organic-Yahn
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If these players get what they want for Chesa, we will have a higher damage, disarming vacuum dog; a complete upgrade from Carrier, at least I would say.

 

Nope, because Sentinels do not have path finding issues, and they also do not run off to die. Not to mention that Sweeper Prime hits really hard (the other Sentinel weapons could use a buff thought since in comparison to Sweeper Prime they seem like toys).

 

Giving Chesa Vacuum would just make them kind of equal in utility so the choice which to take would be determined by individual player preferences. Currently there is simply no contest, Carrier does the job soooooooo much better that someone must really love Kubrows to take a Chesa as replacement.

Edited by ----Fenrir----
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There's no reason not to give vacuum to kubrows, they have all the tech equipment already in their collars and that could be the "explanation" why they can do that. If some can cloak you, why can't one vacuum? Or with the new armor, just give them "tech backpacks" that can do all those things sentinels do (scanning, vacuum, etc.)

 

 

The pathing and AI on Kubrows however clearly needs a large upgrade tho. 

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There's no reason not to give vacuum to kubrows, they have all the tech equipment already in their collars and that could be the "explanation" why they can do that. If some can cloak you, why can't one vacuum? Or with the new armor, just give them "tech backpacks" that can do all those things sentinels do (scanning, vacuum, etc.)

 

 

The pathing and AI on Kubrows however clearly needs a large upgrade tho. 

yeah you speak wisdom. that AI please DE give it some more work please!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Nope, because Sentinels do not have path finding issues, and they also do not run off to die. Not to mention that Sweeper Prime hits really hard (the other Sentinel weapons could use a buff thought since in comparison to Sweeper Prime they seem like toys).

 

Giving Chesa Vacuum would just make them kind of equal in utility so the choice which to take would be determined by individual player preferences. Currently there is simply no contest, Carrier does the job soooooooo much better that someone must really love Kubrows to take a Chesa as replacement.

*  "I disagree"

 

One of my friends argued this, but here's my counter. 

Suppose you're in some type of room layout where you want to skip a bunch of walkable terrain. Chesa kubrow with a vacuum will go along all floors, potentially picking up more than a sentinel following you would. Also it can open crates? Pretend carrier is simply a vacuum attachment to the tenno. With it, the tenno does all the vacuuming. With Chesa, the kubrow does the vacuuming, effectively extending the vacuums range.

 

Edit: put spaces in between * and " to clarify. Instead of saying "Nope" I'd prefer this thread is used as open discussion rather than shutdown palooza

Edited by Bio-Organic-Yahn
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There's no reason not to give vacuum to kubrows, they have all the tech equipment already in their collars and that could be the "explanation" why they can do that. If some can cloak you, why can't one vacuum? Or with the new armor, just give them "tech backpacks" that can do all those things sentinels do (scanning, vacuum, etc.)

 

 

The pathing and AI on Kubrows however clearly needs a large upgrade tho. 

If you're denying my reasons given please clarify, I'd think it's obvious I at least think there are reasons not to. Ignoring reasons argued by OP kind of ruins the point of responding to the thread, at least in my opinion. 

 

Secondly I'd like to say I'm not arguing this for realism or theme's sake. DE's never made much of a point for realism and I'm only pushing for gameplay changes and maybe something unique.

 

I'm glad you agree with the AI change, but realistically I don't think that's going to happen as soon as some simple number changes, like drop chance or amount.

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TBH I just want the kubrow to act like a second body for me. anything it runs over is automatically added to my inventory. No vacume, just the regular 3M range warframes have. that and for it to prioritize picking my items up over other stuff unless it has to attack.

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TBH I just want the kubrow to act like a second body for me. anything it runs over is automatically added to my inventory. No vacume, just the regular 3M range warframes have. that and for it to prioritize picking my items up over other stuff unless it has to attack.

I like this. I forget if I talked about teleporting loot rather than fetching it? I won't claim it as my own idea though. +1

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Kubrows already basically mimic sentinels an vice versa if anything the only real thing a sentinel has left exclusive would be like I guess self destruct coolant leak automatic maintenance ie self revive an strong dps granted kubrows hit hard but it's a single target each time there only good late game based on the warframe you pick ie their health shields an armor are based off of yours while sentinels have a fixed amount as well as there hard to hit unless bombarded also kubrows put themselves out of place in combat or in bad spots an they require constant DNA

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I have no opinion on the Chesa as I haven't hatched one yet - but I'm against the idea that the retrieve aspect should be as good or identical to Carrier - in order for the mutt to be viable. Carrier's importance is completely overblown amongst the playerbase because of laziness. 

From what I can see though - Chesa's coding needs some prioritising. Running off to pick up credits instead of the resource puck lying there makes no sense to me. 

 

 granted kubrows hit hard but it's a single target each time

 

Not true - I watch my Huras regularly take out clustered groups with one attack. 

 

 

 also kubrows put themselves out of place in combat or in bad spots 

 

Also not true - they only go after something you were already aiming at - however briefly. Its not that they put themselves out of place - its that we leave them behind with all our crazy high speed movement. So while yes - their pathing needs some serious work - if you leave your space dog in the middle of a bunch of heavy hitters without supporting it - that's kinda on you. 

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I have no opinion on the Chesa as I haven't hatched one yet - but I'm against the idea that the retrieve aspect should be as good or identical to Carrier - in order for the mutt to be viable. Carrier's importance is completely overblown amongst the playerbase because of laziness.

From what I can see though - Chesa's coding needs some prioritising. Running off to pick up credits instead of the resource puck lying there makes no sense to me.

Not true - I watch my Huras regularly take out clustered groups with one attack.

Also not true - they only go after something you were already aiming at - however briefly. Its not that they put themselves out of place - its that we leave them behind with all our crazy high speed movement. So while yes - their pathing needs some serious work - if you leave your space dog in the middle of a bunch of heavy hitters without supporting it - that's kinda on you.

granted if this is on your accord but if they do give this kubrow this ability it wouldn't be bad it's just a plus
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Reading through forums, looking through youtube, and twitter, and wiki. . . I find that a large part of our player base is disappointed with Chesa.

While I understand and agree that Chesa should be changed, I strongly oppose the specific proposal to turn Chesa into a vacuum, like carrier is now.

My best friend, who prefers all sentinels to kubrows (thematically and in use), expressed that with the increasing popularity of kubrows, he would be grateful if sentinels retained their value; not to mention with the business model of WF, some people could've spent actual currency. This means each kubrow, and each sentinel, will retain their own unique qualities; not only within their seperate categories, but among all companions.

I agree.

I am confident enough to wager my friend represents at least a portion of our player base, and therefore their interests.

If these players get what they want for Chesa, we will have a higher damage, disarming vacuum dog; a complete upgrade from Carrier, at least I would say.

My Proposals And Request:

We have so many options to improve this kubrow. My first thought would be to give Chesa's retrieve ability a % chance to either reap better loot from crates, or upgrade a mod it picks up (or y'know, both). This % can be as low or as high as DE wants, though I really don't think anyone will consider these suggestions, regardless of my hopes.

Nekros' Desecrate, Pilfering Swarm, and Magnetic Pull augment (still useful for mag herself), all suggest DE is willing to aid our efforts in earning our loot; if this is true I suggest the above.

A different method, still similar to better loot chances. Allow Chesa's Retrieve to be useful for combat, in combat, and while combating. . .

Joking aside, what if Chesa could steal items from enemies as it attacks them? This could be expressed in any combination of: %chance for things to drop, amount of times this ability will be applied with attack, can't be used on the same enemy more than once, or even add additional damage, or lack of ammo, or jamming (I see so much potential in this kubrow.)

The goal for this application could be something like a chance at loot drops before the enemy dies. This means we get two chances at this one enemy the kubrow chooses. That sounds fair enough right? Especially with current single targeting.

Minimally less related: I see this kubrow as an opportunity to improve NPC intelligence. Even if we only do it with Chesa, which is really all I'm suggesting, what about an AI that allows it to travel far away from the tenno, seeking every gorram crate in the map. You can have anything the kubrow picks up instantly in your inventory, or have it hold a cache, like the suggestion in another post for Chesa. This can tie with the other suggestions, if people/DE wants it.

These are my suggestions. I don't expect much of a response, but I'd like these to be considered and refined by better minds.

If you don't like these, my request is for you to use this thread to make alternative suggestions to the vacuum kubrow. My hopes are for us to create a more refined, unique, fun, and useful kubrow when compared to our current Chesa. Carrier just got a prime, and I feel Vacuum Kubrow will over-shadow that.

Give the chesa 60m range vacuum for the whole team

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  • 3 weeks later...

"Meh, using vacuum is just lazy."   Just terrible.  No perspective. 

 

You have your choice of dorms.  They're all very similar, but each has a stand-out feature that the others don't.

 

One has a fantastic view and a party deck.

One has a pool and gym.

One is attached to a transit hub.

One has cable internet instead of dial-up.

 

And if someone has the temerity to complain about not wanting slow internet?  

 

"Meh, broadband is just lazy.  If you have something to download, queue it up overnight.  Who needs to watch streaming video anyway?  There are programs which will download that for offline viewing anway, don't be so lazy."

 

Once you've had vacuum, going to anything else feels like going back to dial-up from cable.  Just can't do it.  So I only use carrier.  It'd be nice to get those views or those amenities sometimes, but not if it costs me net speed, nuh-uh.  No way.  Same is true of vacuum.  It'd be NICE to have dog... but not that nice.

Edited by Transientmind
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