About That Incoming Tentacle Swarm/pilfering Swarm Hyrdoid Nerf.

[Szaeravar]

I think eventually you guys will come to the realization, that this is not actually a nerf.

Stop hyperventilating, and think for a second about what this means. It means you no longer have to rely on the tentacles actually being the thing to kill the enemy, just die while on them. This doesn't just encourage team play. It means Hydroid's tentacles can get way more kills at a way faster rate because the entire squad can just unload on them. I think this means that you are going to find overall that the loot drops are not nerfed.

Also this doesn't break the Equinox combo because Tentacle Swarm itself is not affected... just Pilfering Swarm. Equinox can still help hydroid kill stuff faster, which means more loot drops because more enemies killed on the tentacles quicker.

It also is a buff because now Pilfering Swarm scales better than before. Before it was only effective as long as Hydroid's power strength was still enough to quickly kill the enemies. Once that scaling falls off, it's not useful anymore. With this change it can scale as long as the squad can still kill enemies quickly. That is a huge buff for Hydroid end game potential!

I think people are really misinterpreting what's going on here. This change is not just a tweak to encourage team play... it's a Hydroid buff. And you guys are calling it a nerf... it's just amazing to me how people can get it so wrong...

I think some of ya'll just want to be bad, because you can't stand change in any form even though you are playing a beta game.

Oh sure, you're the savior who realizes what everyone else can't.

Nope.

Pilfering Swarm will be locked at 100% chance for an additional loot roll, and Desecrate will be at 90% chance for roll. Desecrate is easier to work with, because it doesn't make the other players in the squad try and shoot at enemies in flailing tentacles. You will miss, the target will fly to the moon, and THE TENTACLES WILL SPAWN IN USELESS LOCATIONS AND BE COMPLETELY WASTED.

Faster kills? No, unless you're spamming nukes with the hope that every enemy you're wiping is actually tagged as "grabbed by a tentacle". If that fails, you will not get more loot. You know who can get that loot just as efficiently as Hydroid but without this risk?

Also, why in the world are you saying Equinox will still help the tentacles kill if you were just saying that the new goal is for players to shoot enemies? Right, I forgot higher power strength makes my gun shoot harder. Again, the only time Equinox is going to boost is if you're nuking, which will wipe enemies that aren't on tentacles--and if you plan on still using Equinox to just let the tentacles get the kills, then you're doing the same amount of work as before for literally 1/3 the resource/mod rewards.

As for scaling into endgame. . . Good point! /s I definitely need my Hydroid in T4 void to get more alloy plate and Whirlwind mods. After all, resource drops raise way high in end game right? Right?

Your points are invalid.

[RyanGo]

Thing is though now it won't be advisable to use the power killing tentacle build along with tentacle swarm so yes I had valid reasons to be concerned as power strength tentacle build will not be of use with the incoming change. Now I have to make 2 separate builds for tentacle swarm and the non power strength affected pilfering swarm so my concern is valid.

I think its still a little different from how you think it is. Power strength mods will no longer affect the bonus drop chance on pilfering swarm NOT the damage. So if you have a power strengthed tentacle swarm and then suddenly add a pilfering swarm on top of that, it will still have the same damage.

 

I'm not sure why adding pilfering swarm no longer means you should build for damage. You still have to kill the enemies while they're on the tentacles for the bonus to work after all so I would think you'd still want stronger tentacles.

[Tesseract7777]

Oh sure, you're the savior who realizes what everyone else can't.

Nope.

Pilfering Swarm will be locked at 100% chance for an additional loot roll, and Desecrate will be at 90% chance for roll. Desecrate is easier to work with, because it doesn't make the other players in the squad try and shoot at enemies in flailing tentacles. You will miss, the target will fly to the moon, and THE TENTACLES WILL SPAWN IN USELESS LOCATIONS AND BE COMPLETELY WASTED.

Faster kills? No, unless you're spamming nukes with the hope that every enemy you're wiping is actually tagged as "grabbed by a tentacle". If that fails, you will not get more loot. You know who can get that loot just as efficiently as Hydroid but without this risk?

Also, why in the world are you saying Equinox will still help the tentacles kill if you were just saying that the new goal is for players to shoot enemies? Right, I forgot higher power strength makes my gun shoot harder. Again, the only time Equinox is going to boost is if you're nuking, which will wipe enemies that aren't on tentacles--and if you plan on still using Equinox to just let the tentacles get the kills, then you're doing the same amount of work as before for literally 1/3 the resource/mod rewards.

As for scaling into endgame. . . Good point! /s I definitely need my Hydroid in T4 void to get more alloy plate and Whirlwind mods. After all, resource drops raise way high in end game right? Right?

Your points are invalid.

 

You sound really worked up, you might want to calm down. 

 

No, my points are not invalid just because you said they are, that's not how life works. 

 

Tentacle Swarm tentacles not spawning in the right place is just as wasted right now, so that's not a valid counter argument. And Nekros has and always will be better at loot overall than Hydroid, so stop comparing them it's ridiculous. The difference is Hydroid can do damage and provide some crowd control at the same time. They aren't supposed to be so comparable, stop comparing them. If you want something solely for it's loot capability and not for cc or anything else, of course you are going to always choose Nekros anyway, and yes, before the nerf that's always been true. 

 

Of course you would kill them faster... you have four people trying to kill them now instead of one, that's quite a lot faster. It's not even complex calculations. Even with just weapons that's faster killing. If you kill them with powers, yes, Equinox can help them kill quicker, or help Hydroid kill quicker, which means more loot overall. 

 

And your attempt to say my point about the endgame is invalid is just flat out absurd. You basically ignored the fact that it does indeed scale better now. Whether you want it in your squad is utterly irrelevant. 

 

 

You don't even know how the numbers will really play out, and already you are raging. 

Edited August 6, 2015 by Tesseract7777

[tutzdes]

The Swarm itself is a terrible ulti, before Pilfering Swarm I ran Tempest/Tidal Surge build, and almost didn't use ult.

 

The only reason most people bother with playing Hydroid is farm and Pilfering Swarm. Ult build only exists due to additional drops scaling with power strength. Tentacles can either kill enemies outright or just annoy all the teammates (like Mag's pull), so Hydroid is either insta-killing with tentacles or is borderline griefing anyway. Nerfing farm capability of Hydroid = massively nerfing Hydroid. It's already vastly inferior to Nekros for high level missions.

 

Any nerf to farming capability of Hydroid should be compensated by HUGE buff AND rework of most of his abilities, since these are not good by themselves, have terrible synergy and modding for one ability totally ruins two others. Hydroid is already very underplayed warframe, used only for his Pilfering. All the polls before ubiquitous augment implementation showed, that Hydroid was considered one of the worst frames if not the worst.

 

UPD:

 

And Nekros has and always will be better at loot overall than Hydroid, so stop comparing them it's ridiculous. The difference is Hydroid can do damage and provide some crowd control at the same time. They aren't supposed to be so comparable, stop comparing them. If you want something solely for it's loot capability and not for cc or anything else, of course you are going to always choose Nekros anyway, and yes, before the nerf that's always been true. 

 

Nekros and Hydroid have the SAME specialisation now. Augment mods made them even close. First abilities - dmg+CC, almost same. Desecrate heals with orbs, Undertow heals with augment. Terrify, Shadows of the death - disable enemies - like undertow.

The one difference is that Tidal surge is a mobility tool, Nekros lacks. But it's useless in tentacles-build (has about 1 meter range). The second difference is the way of getting loot: Hydroid gets more loot by killing with ult, and only useful as long as he can kill with ult; Nekros don't kill while desecrating, but is very team friendly and has infinite scaling.

 

With no loot scaling with power strength Hydroid is inferior to Immortal Army Nekros build in every aspect. Non loot related Hydroid builds are vastly inferior to Jack of All Trades warframes like Excalibur or Zephyr.

Edited August 6, 2015 by tutzdes

[Viedra_Lavinova]

It's a slight buff to your team/ nerf to you. I'm actually looking forward to it. No longer will I have to sit and twittle my thumbs while Pilfdroid kills everything.

[Guest khk6]

Hydroid = Pilfering Swarm

↓

Pilfering Swarm nerf = Hydroid Nerf

↓

Pilfering Swarm useless = Hydroid useless

↓

Hydroid = useless

 

Hydroid is going to need a full rework very soon, because frankly, Pilfering Swarm.was his one and only useful, viable way of playing him. I have all frames, played the game for a really long time, and I know this for a fact: his abilities are very, very underwhelming. 

 

Only reason to use Hydroid now is to play him just for fun.   

[Guest (PS4)Baby0Shaq34]

So I'm guessing Nekros and Vauban are next.

-_-

[texrei]

So we turn to more grind again?

And yee.. poor Hydroid, he never was a popular frame and now never will like to play him.

Edited August 6, 2015 by texrei

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

I posted in the feedback thread, but TL;DR... people are already complaining about increasing the grind, and this seems like a knee-jerk reaction to something that's existed for (months?), just because of one tileset that got updated with new enemies that seem to have different loot-dropping mechanics. This is indirectly increasing the grind.

 

I like the change with teammates killing on tentacles, but nerfing Pilfering Swarm is not helping. Nerf/look over Ophelia/Uranus instead, please.

Hmm I'm not that updated whats up with Ophelia? I only know if kiste,draco and triton.

[Inez]

I think eventually you guys will come to the realization, that this is not actually a nerf. 

 

 

Stop hyperventilating, and think for a second about what this means. It means you no longer have to rely on the tentacles actually being the thing to kill the enemy, just die while on them. This doesn't just encourage team play. It means Hydroid's tentacles can get way more kills at a way faster rate because the entire squad can just unload on them. I think this means that you are going to find overall that the loot drops are not nerfed. 

 

Also this doesn't break the Equinox combo because Tentacle Swarm itself is not affected... just Pilfering Swarm. Equinox can still help hydroid kill stuff faster, which means more loot drops because more enemies killed on the tentacles quicker. 

 

It also is a buff because now Pilfering Swarm scales better than before. Before it was only effective as long as Hydroid's power strength was still enough to quickly kill the enemies. Once that scaling falls off, it's not useful anymore. With this change it can scale as long as the squad can still kill enemies quickly. That is a huge buff for Hydroid end game potential! 

 

I think people are really misinterpreting what's going on here. This change is not just a tweak to encourage team play... it's a Hydroid buff. And you guys are calling it a nerf... it's just amazing to me how people can get it so wrong... 

 

I think some of ya'll just want to be bad, because you can't stand change in any form even though you are playing a beta game. 

 

It's apparent from your post that you've never played a properly modded Pilfering Hydroid.

 

Maybe you should try that, and -then- leave feedback.

[styxonfire]

Meanwhile, I'm here just somewhat upset I can't farm nano spores the way I wanted to. But hey, there's Nekros... there's something, I guess.

[VoidNomade]

Ah Hydroit the unwanted son of DE.

 

He also still don´t get buffs from Banshee augment because DE fears his wrath and now this. =)

 

I think we are at a point where removing the tentacles completely and adding something new would be the best solution.

[(PSN)CptCosmic]

for anyone saying "you can now use power range" to grab more stuff.

well obivously you have never used hydroid. you dont want extra range on tentacles at all. you actually want less range. you have a limited amount of tentacles that spawn randomly anywhere in range. you actually do not want that. you want them to spawn as close as possible to actually hit stuff.

 

anyway....

 

 

No, my points are not invalid just because you said they are, that's not how life works. 

 

 

It's apparent from your post that you've never played a properly modded Pilfering Hydroid. your points are invalid simply by being invalid. that actually is how life works.

 

-with proper mods till lvl40 enemies the tentacles can kill everything by themself easily (assuming they actually hit)

-enemies can walk right over tentacles, move past and not get fetched by them

-tentacles still spawn everywhere but not where I was targeting them

-tentacles cannot be placed somewhere else when still active

-requires mod slot to actually give extra loot

-hitting enemies fetches by tentacles is hard

-tentacles have long cast time leaving your vulnerable

-as soon as tentacles arent able to kill their enemies anymore, simply start a new game.

 

minimal buff to high level content but nerf everything else by alot. nekros loot ability is reliable, works at high level, can use it on a whole room and do that right of the box without a mod. a better fix would be equinox not affecting the loot chance.

 

 

The fact that tentacle swarm already ignores armor and does massive damage when max'd on power strength isn't being changed at all.

 

initial damage is magnetic

Edited August 6, 2015 by (PS4)CptCosmic

[saltygr33n]

I honestly do not understand...... DE wants to nerf farming, but design something that is meant to help farming.....

 

All I need is my carrier.

Edited August 6, 2015 by saltygr33n

[XenosInfinity]

I wholeheartedly support the change because I actually play Hydroid for purposes other than Pilfering Swarm. Maybe now I can use one of my favourite frames without being forced to use a build that cripples one of my powers and forces me to stand around repeatedly casting Swarm instead of actually enjoying the mission.  I didn't put six forma into this Kraken so I could be unable to use the frame I built it for.

[FelisImpurrator]

Threads made about Pilfering Swarm instead of "Buff Hydroid": +1

 

(In case some people don't get it - I'm keeping a running tally of these.)

[Bachuuu]

Well that sucks. Better farm while we can.

[undernown]

Great... There goes my dark sector recource farming in a reasonable timly manner... Apparently farming neural sensors with a booster for several hours straight for the weekend was to short of a time infestment for DE. Hell i've already used up most of those over 3 months.

Do they feel like only Nekros should be the farm slave again?

Cause even with his augments people avoid him for everything besides farming for a reason. Hell i don't even own him, even though he's the only frame i've been missing over a year and i still don't care about getting him put together.

[(PSN)CptCosmic]

I wholeheartedly support the change because I actually play Hydroid for purposes other than Pilfering Swarm. Maybe now I can use one of my favourite frames without being forced to use a build that cripples one of my powers and forces me to stand around repeatedly casting Swarm instead of actually enjoying the mission.  I didn't put six forma into this Kraken so I could be unable to use the frame I built it for.

 

the change has no effect on your build then *facepalm*

[srlhama]

So now I dont need give up all the others abilities to us PS, better on the long run, but since is so easy to cut enemies on 3 parts now, Nekros is better on general.

But this change will put Hydroid on the freezer again, at least the day they fixed Tempest Barrage Aoe and cast animation and TS Cast time and target detection.

I think this change will kill most builds and make camping even more a thing after it, most of my Hydroid farms are moving as fast as possible trough rooms searching for enemies. Now will be stay on a corner press 4 kill things with Khom( For max dismembering) and mr Desecrate pressing 3 all the time...

It will not change anything for ppl that use he often (like myself) cause you dont use 4 on the other builds, you mod for duration+ some range and max survival, i even find space for a parkour mod on this build(you all should try it is like coptering speed+parkour mobility).

[Wotca]

The only stinky part about this is that it is being labelled a QoL change when it is clearly a massive nerf.  Pilfer IS Hydroid.  Without it he's a very weak frame with some RNG based cc.  With 100% for an additional loot roll pilfdroid is just an much inferior version of Nekros.  And Nekros can lay down better cc while he's at it.

 

This 'QoL' shouldn't happen until his skills get reworked to make him useful in other ways.

[----Fenrir----]

I wholeheartedly support the change because I actually play Hydroid for purposes other than Pilfering Swarm. Maybe now I can use one of my favourite frames without being forced to use a build that cripples one of my powers and forces me to stand around repeatedly casting Swarm instead of actually enjoying the mission.  I didn't put six forma into this Kraken so I could be unable to use the frame I built it for.

 

No worries, you will be able to play and skill your Hydroid any way you want, for playing solo that is. Because after this nerf no one will ever want poor Hentoid in their group again.

 

I mean probably 95% of all players only play him to farm stuff, and it's the only reason anyone ever asks for him in recruitment chat. After this nerf Hydroid will share the fate of Mag, Ember and Oberon.

[VoidNomade]

I wholeheartedly support the change because I actually play Hydroid for purposes other than Pilfering Swarm. Maybe now I can use one of my favourite frames without being forced to use a build that cripples one of my powers and forces me to stand around repeatedly casting Swarm instead of actually enjoying the mission.  I didn't put six forma into this Kraken so I could be unable to use the frame I built it for.

 

The change doesn´t affect you now or in the future. You doesn´t make any sense.

[TaylorsContraction]

My Pirate Captain, my poor tentacled swarm.

A sad and wet-eyed Fair Winds I bid thee

Alas and alack, ye did not conform

To thy maker's Year of Quality.

 

In the locker shall ye be confined.

Ne'er to see the light of play

To gather the dust of dried up brine.

And ponder the Warframe way.

Well said, well said. A sad day indeed, for all our pilfering sea dogs.

[Evanescent]

Why make the thread without finding stuff out and clarifying?...........................