[Suggestion] Clan Dojo And Small Clans

[acerules211]

I'm a member of a very small clan of a group of friends and when U8 came and out and crafted our keys, we were excited to see what the Dojo would have to offer.
Upon seeing the cost of everything it seems like it would an impossible task for a small clan of 5-15 people to build even a hallway.

 

My suggestion is that we have the ability to lock our clans into different sizes.
Large clans - 300+ people - keeps the current costs of rooms.

Medium clans - 100-299  - maybe cut the cost by 1/4

Small - 25-99 - cut costs by 1/2.

Smallest - 1-24 - cut the costs by 3/4

(Bear in mind these are just suggested cost cuts and clan sizes)

 

(example for building a reactor)

Large Clan - would cost them 65,000 Salvage

Medium Clans - 48,750 Salvage

Small clans - 32,500 Salvage

Smallest - 16,250 Salvage

 

The smallest clans would still have to invest a decent bit of time to build the rooms.

 

I mentioned that clans would be locked into that player amount. There could be a system where you can slowly increase the size of the clan by pooling more resources into it. Thus, compensating for the lower cost of creation.

Forma costs should stay the same, or if they are lowered, you compensate the costs in the upgrading of the clan size.

 

With this suggestion the small clans can still build a Dojo in basically the same time frame as a larger clan.

 

(I would appreciate any suggestions on how to improve this or if it wouldn't work)

 

 

 

Also to add what we had as a way to deter abusing this system (and if people do, it still benefits DE) to change your clan size you have to pay some plat.

 

 

Well metal already started it, but I figured the idea should be flushed out a bit.

 

With what you said above, I have 2 points of thought.

 

1)Size change mechanic? We originally figured plat but maybe that's a bad idea. Whats 200 plat to a Master/GrandMaster really. There might be some other way to do it? Maybe some crazy resource thing, like an upgrade box or somesuch that you have to make in order to make the clan bigger (If you choose a smaller size and wanted to upgrade it that is).

 

2)The maths. (And I know you said just suggested above, but why not flush em out a bit).

DE seems to LOVE exponential equations, namely when it comes to the damned Mod fusion system (1-2-4-8,etc) so I would say that it would probably be best to stick with that. I originally suggested 1/6, 2/6,3/6 but that doesnt work really.

 

You suggested 4 clan sizes, that I like, the fine tuning of the numbers of each size can come later. But let's see. 4.

So 4 stages to each 'building piece'. I will say that the hallways shouldn't scale and should be far reduced in price, but not the point.

Id say...

Stage 1: 1/15 Current Cost

Stage 2: 2/15 Current Cost (+Plus the Stage one you already built)

Stage 3: 4/15 Current Cost (+Plus the Stage One and Two you already built)

Stage 4: 8/15 Current Cost (+Plus the Stage One, Two, and three you already built)

 

Basically, building all the way to Stage 4 would equal the current costs. The lesser stages would do whatever they do..slower. Small clans can deal with that I think. It also lets them improve over time, slowly (since it takes us so much longer with our reduced numbers).

 

Hope this helps expand the idea a bit.

Edited May 25, 2013 by acerules211

[Krotalon]

It is all a matter of Forma. Even smaller clans can build rooms and labs without taking Forma into the count, right now.

[plznohurtme]

It is all a matter of Forma. Even smaller clans can build rooms and labs without taking Forma into the count, right now.

This simply isn't true, and I'm really tired of so many people posting that it's all about the Forma.

Two Cross Shaped Hallways

One Reactor

One Oracle

One Bio Lab

One Chem Lab

One Energy Lab

The total cost of these items together is:

550,000 Credits

455,000 Salvage

175,000 Circuits

140,000 Polymer Bundle

240,000 Nano Spores

70,000 Ferrite

15,000 Alloy Plate

75 Forma

I'm not sure what kind of people everyone who says it's "all about Forma" play with... but I've put quite a bit of time into the game (roughly 300 hours) and what I have barely touches the surface of these material requirements (I have nano spores and the plate isn't bad, credits are a joke, but the rest is an issue). Yes, I agree the Forma requirement is kinda shady right now, but it's hardly the only problem. The massive material sink is a HUGE problem beyond anything Forma adds to it. There is no way around the material sink, where technically you can get around the Forma issue.

Edited May 25, 2013 by plznohurtme

[acerules211]

It is all a matter of Forma. Even smaller clans can build rooms and labs without taking Forma into the count, right now.

 

I wouldn't mind having the Forma costs stay the same, the material costs are rather excessive to build even a simple hallway in a small Clan. It would take a week straight of my full clan of 5 people to farm up enough materials to build a single hallway.

 

I wouldn't mind throwing down a couple hundred plat to build rooms for my clan. Even a small clan can group up and have the potential to get the forma from the void. (Full group = 4 more Forma for the clan)

[Krotalon]

I'm playing in a very small clan too (we're about 6 people in there) and we - putting effort in farming materials - realized that we just need Forma to build rooms, everything else (almost) is ready to be used. Maybe the overall costs can be tweaked, I'm with you in saying that, I just encountered difficulties in getting Forma without necessarily give real money.

[Makemap]

I want a small clan, I have played 200+ hours on this. It costs way too much materials for one room, this isn't fun. This is more of a grind fest to smallers clans. There is no need to force other players to join a big clan or build a big one. If that is the case, then it would only end up with 3-5 big clans running the game. That takes the fun out of the game when all you want to is create a clan just for friends, but have to grind 10x more materials.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Makemap

[Cypherdiaz]

Wow nice idea, its almost like it was already thought up!

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/50258-feedback-on-u8-from-a-small-clan-member/

 

I swear I am not trying to be an arse about this, truly, but what I just read is verbatim what I said in my section on the dojo. Locking the clan size and a fractional reduction of resources based on the size chosen. You just wrote more about it.

 

Where did I get the idea from? A clan mate whom is also my roommate. We were talking about what to do while sitting on my patio the night of the U8 release. He went ahead and posted feedback with the idea, I went ahead and included it in my much bigger post that I linked. Here is his original: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49387-clan-dojo-idea/#entry510508

 

At this point:

1)You saw my idea and straight up stole it for some unknown reason

2)You somehow had the exact same idea down to fairly specific details

 

For now, I am going to go with option 2 out of the hope that this forum doesn't have the sort of trash that would do option 1.

 

Overall, nice idea, I wonder why I support it..oh..right.

 

In the end, weee. Its a good idea and at least its seeing more daylight this way, thanks friend.

 

EDIT: Just for easy navigating, on the link I posted, the item I am refering to is #7, Idea #2 under it.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Cypherdiaz

[metalbacon666]

Already posted this idea as well. Cypher referenced mine in his post as we are clan mates. For a reference to my post as well. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49387-clan-dojo-idea/#entry510508

Still though glad this idea is getting some credence. I am not jumping to conclusions and saying you stole the idea as there are so many people who play this game. It's more along the lines of a pride issue of just incase. But hey all in all more people posting this means more people seeing it.

Edited May 25, 2013 by metalbacon666

[acerules211]

Wow nice idea, its almost like it was already thought up!

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/50258-feedback-on-u8-from-a-small-clan-member/

 

I swear I am not trying to be an arse about this, truly, but what I just read is verbatim what I said in my section on the dojo. Locking the clan size and a fractional reduction of resources based on the size chosen. You just wrote more about it.

 

At this point:

1)You saw my idea and straight up stole it for some unknown reason

2)You somehow had the exact same idea down to fairly specific details

 

For now, I am going to go with option 2 out of the hope that this forum doesn't have the sort of trash that would do option 1.

 

Overall, nice idea, I wonder why I support it..oh..right.

 

In the end, weee. Its a good idea and at least its seeing more daylight this way, thanks friend.

 

Yeah it is option two, I figured it might have been said before, but it really needs saying to get feedback and hopefully draw attention of the devs.

 

(I really don't peruse the forum often enough to see everything that's posted)

[acerules211]

Already posted this idea as well. Cypher referenced mine in his post as we are clan mates. For a reference to my post as well. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49387-clan-dojo-idea/#entry510508

Still though glad this idea is getting some credence. I am not jumping to conclusions and saying you stole the idea as there are so many people who play this game. It's more along the lines of a pride issue of just incase. But hey all in all more people posting this means more people seeing it.

 

My intention was not to steal anyone's thunder with my suggestion. Was just talking with a friend and thought of this and thought I'd post it. And yeah I figured it *might* have been said before but I was thinking along the same lines of getting visibility out there for the suggestion.

[Cypherdiaz]

Fair enough. The more this idea is posted around, the more its sure to get in their face.

With that in mind, I will be linking your post into mine for the simple fact that you DO go into much more detail than I did. I could have but I wanted to see how people responded to it before going too far into detail.

 

Cheers.

 

EDIT:

 

 

My intention was not to steal anyone's thunder with my suggestion. Was just talking with a friend and thought of this and thought I'd post it. And yeah I figured it *might* have been said before but I was thinking along the same lines of getting visibility out there for the suggestion.

 

MetalBacon, as I edited my original post in this thread to say, is my roommate and clanmate. We came up with the idea together..talking. How frigging strange you went through the same method. Alternate dimensions....crazy man crazy

Edited May 25, 2013 by Cypherdiaz

[metalbacon666]

Granted and sorry if I came off as an arse. Not my intention at all. And yeah I agree the idea needs more visibility. So let's keep this up near to top so others can see it!

[acerules211]

Granted and sorry if I came off as an arse. Not my intention at all. And yeah I agree the idea needs more visibility. So let's keep this up near to top so others can see it!

Only a little bit ^^. But I knew where you were coming from so no biggy.

[metalbacon666]

Alrighty. Thanks :).

 

Also to add what we had as a way to deter abusing this system (and if people do, it still benefits DE) to change your clan size you have to pay some plat.

Edited May 25, 2013 by metalbacon666

[Cypherdiaz]

Well metal already started it, but I figured the idea should be flushed out a bit.

 

With what you said above, I have 2 points of thought.

 

1)Size change mechanic? We originally figured plat but maybe that's a bad idea. Whats 200 plat to a Master/GrandMaster really. There might be some other way to do it? Maybe some crazy resource thing, like an upgrade box or somesuch that you have to make in order to make the clan bigger (If you choose a smaller size and wanted to upgrade it that is).

 

2)The maths. (And I know you said just suggested above, but why not flush em out a bit).

DE seems to LOVE exponential equations, namely when it comes to the damned Mod fusion system (1-2-4-8,etc) so I would say that it would probably be best to stick with that. I originally suggested 1/6, 2/6,3/6 but that doesnt work really.

 

You suggested 4 clan sizes, that I like, the fine tuning of the numbers of each size can come later. But let's see. 4.

So 4 stages to each 'building piece'. I will say that the hallways shouldn't scale and should be far reduced in price, but not the point.

Id say...

Stage 1: 1/15 Current Cost

Stage 2: 2/15 Current Cost (+Plus the Stage one you already built)

Stage 3: 4/15 Current Cost (+Plus the Stage One and Two you already built)

Stage 4: 8/15 Current Cost (+Plus the Stage One, Two, and three you already built)

 

Basically, building all the way to Stage 4 would equal the current costs. The lesser stages would do whatever they do..slower. Small clans can deal with that I think. It also lets them improve over time, slowly (since it takes us so much longer with our reduced numbers).

 

Hope this helps expand the idea a bit.

[acerules211]

Stage 1: 1/15 Current Cost

Stage 2: 2/15 Current Cost (+Plus the Stage one you already built)

Stage 3: 4/15 Current Cost (+Plus the Stage One and Two you already built)

Stage 4: 8/15 Current Cost (+Plus the Stage One, Two, and three you already built)

 

Basically, building all the way to Stage 4 would equal the current costs. The lesser stages would do whatever they do..slower. Small clans can deal with that I think. It also lets them improve over time, slowly (since it takes us so much longer with our reduced numbers).

 

I really like this suggestion and hope you don't mind that I quoted you in the op.

[wimpb]

I think the Forma cost should come down, especially for non-utility additions like hallways. It's probably reasonable to pay at least 1 Forma for each room, and more for labs, but 5 Forma for a corridor is a bit much.

 

I don't think big clans should be punished by paying more for rooms either. I think a better solution is to limit the amount of research/production that the utility rooms can do.

 

My understanding of research as it currently stands is that it is similar to the Foundry - you can set as many projects as you like. All clan members have access to it, etc. My solution would be that only X number of projects can be worked on at any particular time. Small clans would have the minimal research rooms, but they wouldn't need much to service a small clan. Big clans would need to build more research rooms to meet the needs of all their members.

 

For example. a 10 man clan builds a small dojo with all the minimal requirements to craft clan-specific weapons. Only 1 person can craft at a time, but that's ok, because with only 10 members, the longest you'll have to wait for your queued item is a couple of days.

 

However, a 100 man clan building the same dojo will have a problem, because you'd have 10 times as many people trying to use the same limited facilities. However, with more resources, the 100 man clan can spend more on building extra reactors and labs, so they might have 10 slots to produce items instead of 1.

[plznohurtme]

I think the Forma cost should come down, especially for non-utility additions like hallways. It's probably reasonable to pay at least 1 Forma for each room, and more for labs, but 5 Forma for a corridor is a bit much.

 

I don't think big clans should be punished by paying more for rooms either. I think a better solution is to limit the amount of research/production that the utility rooms can do.

 

My understanding of research as it currently stands is that it is similar to the Foundry - you can set as many projects as you like. All clan members have access to it, etc. My solution would be that only X number of projects can be worked on at any particular time. Small clans would have the minimal research rooms, but they wouldn't need much to service a small clan. Big clans would need to build more research rooms to meet the needs of all their members.

 

For example. a 10 man clan builds a small dojo with all the minimal requirements to craft clan-specific weapons. Only 1 person can craft at a time, but that's ok, because with only 10 members, the longest you'll have to wait for your queued item is a couple of days.

 

However, a 100 man clan building the same dojo will have a problem, because you'd have 10 times as many people trying to use the same limited facilities. However, with more resources, the 100 man clan can spend more on building extra reactors and labs, so they might have 10 slots to produce items instead of 1.

I'm not sure how the actual crafting of said weapons will work, or the acquisition, but the research itself is exactly like the dojo building, clan access and pooling.

Edited May 25, 2013 by plznohurtme

[wimpb]

That system could either be changed, or the manufacture of clan weapons can only be done in a special clan forge then. The idea is that bigger clans need larger facilities to accommodate their members, while smaller clans can make do with less.

[Cypherdiaz]

I'm not sure how the actual crafting of said weapons will work, or the acquisition, but the research itself is exactly like the dojo building, clan access and pooling.

Any idea how expensive the research is to do?

We know building the research facility is expensive, just wondering if a small clan somehow manages to build it, if they then will hit a wall of the price of research.

 

In the end, my hope is that the dojo truly is in the Alpha stage, as they say and that it will be fine tuned over the future. I almost find it impossible for them to ignore the valid issues brought up by so many small clan members as to the resource requirements, even with the newly enhanced resource drops. Yes they are enhanced and yes that will help but its akin to welfare's effectiveness when it comes to building the dojo.

[plznohurtme]

I laid out all the costs here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49327-dojo-thoughts-from-someone-not-interested-in-larger-clan-play/

But the totals are as I was able to find yesterday here:

=========================================

full Bio Lab research cost:

-----------------------------------------

Credits ---------- 1750000

Detonite Ampule - 2500

Ferrite ---------- 110000

Polymer Bundle - 105000

Plastids --------- 40000

=========================================

full Energy Lab research cost:

=========================================

Credits ---------- 4500000

Fieldron Sample - 4250

Rubedo ----------- 10000

Circuits --------- 55000

Ferrite ---------- 100000

Plastids --------- 50000

Nano Spores ---- 175000

Polymer Bundle - 180000

--Fieldron Research will add roughly

--80000-100000 more materials cost

=========================================

[nikolaos91]

they must really reduce the resources