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So Wait... The Stalker Was Right? (Spoilers?)


Mak_Gohae
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Well their is a point to be made here.

Now that we do have the grineer we understand that they a violent group of individual with compulsive disorder to kill all non grineer and to also take over the solar system and fix their genetic defect to be stronger.

Now i am all good with their hate and their genetic defect being fixed so they can be stronger but taking the solar system and actually taking out your hate and murdering on it not so much.

So this is mainly the reason why i am pro slavery against the grineer

 

I stopped reading there. You do realize they wouldn't be the way they are if it weren't for the Orokin treating them like animals and tools? They aren't innately violent with urges to kill. They probably want to takeover the system because it was an Orokin empire, so most people probably share the Grineer-are-beneath-us mindset. I'm sure the Grineer would rather choose death instead of being treated the same way they were by the Orokin. They certainly have a right to be angry but their actions are not right.

 

Also, the Orokin even treated the non-grineer twin queens like garbage and wanted them dead(shortly after being born), just because having identical looks is synonymous to Grineer, their slaves.

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I stopped reading there. You do realize they wouldn't be the way they are if it weren't for the Orokin treating them like animals and tools? They aren't innately violent with urges to kill. They probably want to takeover the system because it was an Orokin empire, so most people probably share the Grineer-are-beneath-us mindset. I'm sure the Grineer would rather choose death instead of being treated the same way they were by the Orokin. They certainly have a right to be angry but their actions are not right.

 

Also, the Orokin even treated the non-grineer twin queens like garbage and wanted them dead(shortly after being born), just because having identical looks is synonymous to Grineer, their slaves.

See i wish i could believe this but the main issue being is that the grineer were made to be animal like tool that could function as human but with lesser intelligent to be lower then the Orokin.

And as for taking over the system that because they are a military type workforce they are build to be strong and aggressive at what they do.

and yes they are innately violent we learn this when we have the Lancer grineer sys were he actually kills something we are giving the fact that this is a grineer that is used to working he does this for a living and has accepted it. basically as we have the repetition of his recorded sound that he makes and then we easily learn that he kills just as easily.

And in all alteration of the work The Orokin made the grineer to be and act as slaves.It just so happend they forgot to remove their emotion and their ability to talk. Thats what i would have done they can't communicate and only follow order Monkey see monkey do.No rebellion sure work would have been slowed with the lack of communication but hey no chance of a full rebellion lower.

I feel like the twin queen were actually gonna be dissected since twins are the most natural form of cloning it would be offsetting to any scientist if during an artificial cloning process a natural unforeseen conning process occur.

Which in relation if the twin queen are still alive i feel like it might actaully be the result that maybe just guessing here somehow their natural cloning process occurring fix them or something.

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Show me the Kubrow that's doing genetic engineering. Heck, show me the Kubrow that can hold a basic conversation.

 

 

 

The discussion was about the original Grineer and not the ones thousands of years later that had the ability to advance under the direction of the twin queens and whatever they used.

 

Really? When's the last time you saw an ant kill its queen rather than obey a directive that would have killed it?

 

All the time, look it up.

 

As Morec0 said, the concept you're deliberately ignoring is sapience. None of the creatures you've tried to compare the Grineer to are sapient.

 

Im not ignoring anything, you think that if you cant build a car or develop sneakers you are nothing.

A whole mess of animals have culture, a whole mess of animals pass knowledge from generation to generation, a whole mess of animals learn to use anything that they can including humans. That's right, some animals use humans.

 

 

Forcing an entire race of sapient creatures to work for you, on pain of death, is slavery.

 

Where does it state they were forced?

They were created for a job. They werent captured and put to a whip to work, they just work.

 

 

The Grineer may not be as smart as you or I, but that doesn't mean they are not sentient. They have a culture, a language with phonetics and words with their own definite meanings, not just grunts and sounds that have no inherit meaning , the ability to feel emotions (Vor is prideful, Sargus Ruk can feel thankfulness, as during the Gradivus Dilemma, etc), have wants and desires that expand beyond basic survival (Regor wanting to reawaken the Sentients because of their HISTORY - something a normal animal has no care for), and their relationship to their queen is borderline religious. This is what makes them sentient. What you are justifying is it is ok to enslave people who have never received an education because they are dumber than you. 

 

Again, the discussion was about original Grineer and not the current Grineer thousands of years later.

Dont know why you folks continue to bring up stuff not being discussed.

No question that they have advanced in the thousands of years that passed.

But only some are smart while the rest seem to stay on the same level only though the stuff needed.

 

Maybe all the leaders are copies from the Twin Queens? Or they are all their original sons and daughters copied again and again and put into different leadership positions.

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I'm done. When people start implying animals are the same as people is when I just know the conversation's a lost cause.

 

??? When did anyone imply animals are the same as people?

 

The argument are about the Grineer.

You are the one calling them humans, i do not consider them human.

Different veiwpoints but lets not start creating ideas that are not there.

 

If you dont want to discuss what the Grineer are, that's fine, but how about the other questions.

 

Like the idea that the Orokin kept them dumb, where did that come from? And how to do explain the current dumb population?

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The discussion was about the original Grineer and not the ones thousands of years later that had the ability to advance under the direction of the twin queens and whatever they used.

I've already addressed this multiple times. The fact that you can't seem to address the rebuttals made against your arguments doesn't speak very well of those arguments.

 

For the third time, the original Grineer were...

 

 

 

...smart enough to use complex tools, voice abstract concepts such as threats, and understand when someone is trying to trick them.

 

Those aren't things animals are capable of. The Grineer were never of animal-level intelligence. This claim has been thoroughly disproven. It would be nice if you stopped trying to make it.

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See i wish i could believe this but the main issue being is that the grineer were made to be animal like tool that could function as human but with lesser intelligent to be lower then the Orokin.

And as for taking over the system that because they are a military type workforce they are build to be strong and aggressive at what they do.

and yes they are innately violent we learn this when we have the Lancer grineer sys were he actually kills something we are giving the fact that this is a grineer that is used to working he does this for a living and has accepted it. basically as we have the repetition of his recorded sound that he makes and then we easily learn that he kills just as easily.

And in all alteration of the work The Orokin made the grineer to be and act as slaves.It just so happend they forgot to remove their emotion and their ability to talk. Thats what i would have done they can't communicate and only follow order Monkey see monkey do.No rebellion sure work would have been slowed with the lack of communication but hey no chance of a full rebellion lower.

I feel like the twin queen were actually gonna be dissected since twins are the most natural form of cloning it would be offsetting to any scientist if during an artificial cloning process a natural unforeseen conning process occur.

Which in relation if the twin queen are still alive i feel like it might actaully be the result that maybe just guessing here somehow their natural cloning process occurring fix them or something.

 

No, it's clear why they are trying to take over the system in their descriptions and it not because they were originally built to. No, they are not innately aggressive. If you read the lore entry then you should know well that the Grineer was defending himself. By your logic, everything is innately violent and aggressive if it defends itself from attacks or harm, stop leaving out and bending details.

 

How do you think the Grineer came into being? They surely weren't just spawned or built from scratch like machines. They were bred and engineered from a similar starting point - human. Even if they were, it would mean the Orokin failed creating intelligent and sentient life.

 

You should also read the lore about the twin queens instead of guessing. They were not going to be dissected for study. It is clearly stated and left without doubt that they were going to be killed. Why would the Orokin as advanced as they are in genetic manipulation, cloning, and creation, need to study and dissect twins to learn about cloning? Hopefully i won't need to explain each line because it's pretty clear but here it is:

 

The tale of two sisters

#1 -
A STORY ONCE LOST
RECOVERED BY FATE
THE TALE OF TWO SISTERS
WHO BORE THE SAME FACE
 
#2 - 
BORN ONE QUIET MORNING
AMIDST THE GREAT WAR
ALL ELDERS WERE GATHERED
FOR THIS LIFE'S NEW DAWN
 
#3 - 
CONFUSED AND BEWILDERED
THEY JUDGED THEM AMISS
FOR THEY NEVER WITNESSED
TWO SELF-SAME AS THESE
 
#4  -
A MIRRORED REFLECTION
HAD COME INTO LIFE
BY WILL OF THEIR FATHER
KEPT SAFE FROM THE KNIFE
 
#5 - 
THEIR SAMENESS WAS SHUNNED
AS SLAVE-LIKE AND SOILED
THEY TENDED THEIR STRAYS
REJECTED BY ALL
 
#6 -
AS BOTH GIRLS MATURED
THEIR BOND GREW IN DEPTH
THEY HAD THE SAME POISE
SAME SENSES, SAME STRENGTH
 
#7 -
THE UPRISING CAME
AND SPREAD LIKE A WEED
AN ARMY OF COPY-MEN
FEROCIOUS AND FREE
 
#8 - 
AND MUCH LIKE THE SEA
THEY CAME JUST LIKE WAVES
FOR YEARS THEY FOUGHT ON
FOR YEARS WE REMAINED
 
#9 - 
LIKE CHISEL TO STONE
WAR MOLDED THE TWINS
WHO RAVAGED THE HORDES
BECAME LEGEND TO THEM
 
#10 - 
THEY HAD A DEEP STRENGTH
THAT CAME FROM EACH OTHER
UNLIKE ALL THESE COPIES
IDENTICAL, BUT NOT BROTHERS
 
#11 - 
THE COPIES COULD SEE IT
THEY YEARNED FOR IT TOO
IF THE TWINS COULD DO IT
PERHAPS THEY COULD TOO
 
#12 - 
THE TWINS HAD ATTAINED
SOMETHING MORE THAN A WHOLE
A TRUE UNDERSTANDING
OF EACH OTHER SOUL
 
#13 - 
THE COPIES BECAME BELIEVERS
ONE BY ONE BOWED TO THE TWINS
AND LED FORTH BY THEIR NEW MASTERS
THEY RAVAGED THE COLONIES
 
#14 - 
NOW A POWER TO FOLLOW
NOT A FORCE TO BE FOUGHT
FROM THE ASHES OF WAR

THE TWIN QUEENS WERE WROUGHT

 

The queens are very much alive as well.

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You are the one calling them humans, i do not consider them human.

That's racist xD

 

But seriously, with a proper upbringing they are capable of great things: genetic manipulation, space travel, planetary colonization ... I think the only reason there's no Grineer art is because of their militaristic culture, because they surely do have the potential for it.

Enslaving a race of such intelligent beings (even if you created them to be your tools) is pretty messed up.

 

 

Remember kids, if you are going to create life to do your chores, create automatons or something similarly stupid :P

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No, it's clear why they are trying to take over the system in their descriptions and it not because they were originally built to. No, they are not innately aggressive. If you read the lore entry then you should know well that the Grineer was defending himself. By your logic, everything is innately violent and aggressive if it defends itself from attacks or harm, stop leaving out and bending details.

 

How do you think the Grineer came into being? They surely weren't just spawned or built from scratch like machines. They were bred and engineered from a similar starting point - human. Even if they were, it would mean the Orokin failed creating intelligent and sentient life.

 

You should also read the lore about the twin queens instead of guessing. They were not going to be dissected for study. It is clearly stated and left without doubt that they were going to be killed. Why would the Orokin as advanced as they are in genetic manipulation, cloning, and creation, need to study and dissect twins to learn about cloning? Hopefully i won't need to explain each line because it's pretty clear but here it is:

 

The tale of two sisters

#1 -
A STORY ONCE LOST
RECOVERED BY FATE
THE TALE OF TWO SISTERS
WHO BORE THE SAME FACE
 
#2 - 
BORN ONE QUIET MORNING
AMIDST THE GREAT WAR
ALL ELDERS WERE GATHERED
FOR THIS LIFE'S NEW DAWN
 
#3 - 
CONFUSED AND BEWILDERED
THEY JUDGED THEM AMISS
FOR THEY NEVER WITNESSED
TWO SELF-SAME AS THESE
 
#4  -
A MIRRORED REFLECTION
HAD COME INTO LIFE
BY WILL OF THEIR FATHER
KEPT SAFE FROM THE KNIFE
 
#5 - 
THEIR SAMENESS WAS SHUNNED
AS SLAVE-LIKE AND SOILED
THEY TENDED THEIR STRAYS
REJECTED BY ALL
 
#6 -
AS BOTH GIRLS MATURED
THEIR BOND GREW IN DEPTH
THEY HAD THE SAME POISE
SAME SENSES, SAME STRENGTH
 
#7 -
THE UPRISING CAME
AND SPREAD LIKE A WEED
AN ARMY OF COPY-MEN
FEROCIOUS AND FREE
 
#8 - 
AND MUCH LIKE THE SEA
THEY CAME JUST LIKE WAVES
FOR YEARS THEY FOUGHT ON
FOR YEARS WE REMAINED
 
#9 - 
LIKE CHISEL TO STONE
WAR MOLDED THE TWINS
WHO RAVAGED THE HORDES
BECAME LEGEND TO THEM
 
#10 - 
THEY HAD A DEEP STRENGTH
THAT CAME FROM EACH OTHER
UNLIKE ALL THESE COPIES
IDENTICAL, BUT NOT BROTHERS
 
#11 - 
THE COPIES COULD SEE IT
THEY YEARNED FOR IT TOO
IF THE TWINS COULD DO IT
PERHAPS THEY COULD TOO
 
#12 - 
THE TWINS HAD ATTAINED
SOMETHING MORE THAN A WHOLE
A TRUE UNDERSTANDING
OF EACH OTHER SOUL
 
#13 - 
THE COPIES BECAME BELIEVERS
ONE BY ONE BOWED TO THE TWINS
AND LED FORTH BY THEIR NEW MASTERS
THEY RAVAGED THE COLONIES
 
#14 - 
NOW A POWER TO FOLLOW
NOT A FORCE TO BE FOUGHT
FROM THE ASHES OF WAR

THE TWIN QUEENS WERE WROUGHT

 

The queens are very much alive as well.

their is a line that says their father kept them safe from knife

now it could have said blades for death or many other things is not guess but scapula is a knife so i feel dissection of two same self alike such as these that they never seen would be good enough reason for me to wonder why they are so alike and bring them to a table full of knife to open them

 

You say self defense i see a simple creature trying to feed itself and decided hey lets feed on this livestock then the livestock fighting back and once the simple creature gets stab by intergalactic shovel and dying the livestock decides to kill it even thought the creature is already dying because the livestock enjoyed it.

 

considering how advance the orokin were i am sure spawning them from kubrow eggs isn't far.

They probably took the closest they had to present human maybe something wild from the forest of earth and took his genes altered it and made it so that it could be grown quick and it mature quick as well as lower is intelligent and the brain ability of a special child that can never learn complex machine unless it imitates to give it more muscle and strengths 

although i wouldn;t mean they failed to create sentient life or intellegent life i am sure they didn't want sentient or intelligent life.I feel like according to the sys of the crewman we learn that their are laws that if something can reach a certain level of threat for the orokin is a no go.So making strong individual as smart as yourself to do your job is not the best or smartest idea so i am sure they were intended to be dumb and follow and learn their simple trade of work

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I'm going to assume you lack basic reading comprehension. It's that or you're a troll.

i just don't understand why we are trying to put our enemies in the same level as the value of equal life.iN reality life is not equal if the orokin enslaved the infested would it be the same story?Of course not but i would have easily tied a charger to a hamster wheel and made him run to power my ship(DE this is an Idea i want to see) but in all honesty the grineer are no more hte bags of meat cloned ofr a purpose which is serve their master.We blame the orokin for what they did was wrong but right now the grineer themselves are servants to other grineer and we ignore that fact.i mean not all grineers are bad not all grineers are evil not all grineers should be killed is what most are saying but then we we apply this to the grineer that we have seen that fight against us we could call it self defense but really i am surprise to see a grineer from mercury be any form of danger for us then a mosquito so why do we kill them.

If we begin to try to humanize an enemy who was intended to be an Ant worked as someone mention we are gonna start just being ridiculous like is this really important that the Orokin are evil because they made people that are disposable so that this people could do a job that was more likely to be dangerous something evil.

Most people are saying is wrong but what is wrong in our world yeah is consider wrong cause that is the perspective we have but theirs no in the Warframe world i have notice that superiority rules if your better your better that is final specially if your design to be better.

The orokin are not evil people in my opinion we call them evil cause the ethics they show are not the same ethics we believe them to be but just like all culture change maybe for them is not.

And people will say slavery is evil and it doesn't matter what the culture is well for the fact being good and evil is perspective of moral we have not a fact when it comes to human nature.

We have things that are wrong and things that right but good and evil are morals and ethics thata re define by the culture so yeah maybe the orokin seen evil to us but i am sure as for the stalker they weren't evil cause he was raise in different culture.

Edited by Leavith
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i just don't understand why we are trying to put our enemies in the same level as the value of equal life.

 

You're defending slavery and saying they deserved to be enslaved again. You're dehumanizing them when they are clearly human. They didn't just come into being and decided they were going to attack everyone without provocation. If you were treated like feces, made to do labor because that's what they wanted you to believe that is all you can do, used as fodder, and hurt - would you believe those people were in the right?

 

Don't speak on morality, ethics, and perspective of others because you're clearly biased. If you were truly viewing it from a neutral stance, you wouldn't be dehumanizing the Grineer and defending slavery along with other dim statements. You can be enemies with someone while not dehumanizing them. Doing so stems from an inferiority complex or inability to accept the common traits you share with those you hate in my opinion. I hate the Corpus with a burning passion but i'm not going to ignore all the traits that they share with humans like everyone else.

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snip

don;t read to long i feel like you will be lost and confuse not the best at punctuation

Well clearly they are diferent i am treating as less then me cause they are less then me.

Sure i will show grace to those who are good and give them the treatment i would give anyone of them,but at the same time i cannot forget the fact that while i might be acting biased i am not wrong different perspective means different actions.

you tell a doctor your suddenly gaining fat weight they will tell you your sick and prescribe a medicine

you tell a dietitian  you suddenly gaining fat weight they will tell you is because of something you have eaten and give you handbook on food you should eat

you tell your coach your suddenly gaining fat weight they will tell you is because of your lack of exercise and then give you a new workout schedule

While this might not be the best example you can clearly see that yes this people would be biased if they were to argue on why your fat because of their fields and yes each person has different view but which one is right?

The doctor could be right your sick

The dietitian could be right something your now eating or some development in your body maturity is no longer metabolizing the food as it should

The Coach could be right your lack of activity is finally affecting you and your gaining weight

....

This is all the same with the grineer while i may talk about ethics and morals and perspective i am allowed to talk about it because we are all entitled to have our opinion.Clearly you have yours or else this wouldn't be a discussion.

And i mention the Grineer in the past were humanoid made using the human template to lack intelligence and be a workforce to do their job.

If you ever read the book the House of Scorpion the workers their would be a good example of what the grineer were more likely to be when they were 1st made and why do i say this because if i recall the 1st example of the grineer rising up we get is when their is chaos meaning their must have been mistakes in the production of the future grineer that would even allow the race know as the orokin to not put a simple flaw that would impede the grineer from ever turning on their master.

In the House of scorpion you have different level of freedom on the many worker that exist which is how i viewed the grineer except in the situation in one the workers are actual people made to work until death with some free will to perform specific task,while in the other one are clones design to work and work volunteer only being able to the job they were born and design for.

And while yes they may share traits with me but as long as you were created for purpose and you have had limits put on you that i don't have your not like me,you can't expect me to treat you like i treat other like me.

While i would of course if you earn my respect but in honesty as it goes moral the orokin and the people of that time had were different for them advance,survival,and development were their culture values

their ethics revolved around the survival of their species

and their perspective was this is all for the greater good of ourselves while we might see it as evil is not wrong

just like how we still allow things that are wrong happend and we ignore them.

Now in consideration of comparison to grineer in our present time they have begun to easily separate themselves from past time having lost the mental handicap and developed more their mental freedom just like they say while the old grineer had this capability if is not put into practice is not gonna grow the same the brain.

Now your just not gonna ignore all the traits they share with humans but here is the diference would and Orokin be able to do the job the grineer are able to do as good as the grineer nope.DO the orokin need to worry about the grineer if they can easily be replace no,do the orokin need to care about beings that don;t even have the 10% of the capability they hold no,if the world is fair then the answer is no cause while we are alike we are not the same.Just because me and you are Tenno does not mean i am let you borrow my kubrow that is my doggy 

is simple seen fit grineer are not us so we are gonna treat them as they were intended to be treated be it in the past were they are slaves or not were they are target practice for the puncture type weapons.They don;t earn the rights they have just by being like me in appearance just like america doesn't give citizenship to people who come from England just cause they look like the normal white american.Is simple as it is for us slavery and treating others as we would suggest evil like treating them as lesser then us would be wrong.But for the orokin they have all the difference they brought the grineer into this world they made the grineer they design the grineer to be slave and while the grineer may be like them they don;t have Orokin citizenship making them different in the eyes of the goverment not having the same rights.SO were do they fall in this goverment the slaves they were intended to be made.

Well i think i am leave this conversation regarding the grineer right's movement after all this is all just based on the fantasy world of warframe and i am go back to playing with my kubrow.

But lets return to the Stalker was right

Edited by Leavith
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Lotus: Keep the enemy busy while a Tenno Operative searches for supplies, ready? Trigger the alarm.

ZzVinniezZ: I DO WHAT I WANT, YOU CANT TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!

Lotus (thinking): Wait for it.

ZzVinniezZ: ...... *triggers the alarm*

Lotus: Who is your daddy momma?

ZzVinniezZ: ... you are.

------

Lotus: There's a large platoon of Grineer Marines stationed here, leave no one standing.

ZzVinniezZ: ARE YOU TELLING ME WHAT TO DO?!

Lotus: Pecking Order.

ZzVinniezZ: YES MA'AM! KILL 'EM ALL!!

^Every player who thinks they can defy Lotus.

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Neither parrots, nor apes, nor ants, nor kubrow, nor any other non-human example you can come up with can do things like engage in genetic engineering, pilot spaceships, plan and execute mining operations, or construct impregnable starships armed with superweapons powerful enough to wipe out Orokin-constructed space stations in a single shot.

 

One more time.

This is not about the current state of the Grineer that has had thousands of years of advancement this is about the original creature and it's purpose.

Dont know why this is hard to understand.

 

Now here is

 

 

 

He is a lost cause. By his logic, if i spoke a different language than he does and had the power to force him to work, i wouldn't be doing anything wrong apparently.

 

 

No by my logic if you were a creature i created for the purpose of labour you are a creature created for the purpose of labour.

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One more time.

This is not about the current state of the Grineer that has had thousands of years of advancement this is about the original creature and it's purpose.

Dont know why this is hard to understand.

 

Now here is

 

Good lord, dude. This will be the FOURTH time I have addressed this specific point. Once again, the ORIGINAL Grineer, from the time of the Orokin empire, were...

 

 

...smart enough to use complex tools, voice abstract concepts such as threats, and understand when someone is trying to trick them.

 

 

At this point, you're just being deliberately obtuse.

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Good lord, dude. This will be the FOURTH time I have addressed this specific point. Once again, the ORIGINAL Grineer, from the time of the Orokin empire, were...

 

 
 

 

At this point, you're just being deliberately obtuse.

Look Bro just cause you can use complex tools and had to know when someone lies to them does not mean they can simply defy what they are made for.

To my extent lancer sys addresses the normal life of a normal grineer before her gets attacks

we also need to understand that their must have been some form of flaw or system that kept the grineer in check that no longer existed or could be overlooked or be damage easily i say this because well the fact that this people wanting to escape believed that they could use the grineer as meat shield and that they wouldn't fight back would be plain ignorance they must have thought a fail safe existed.But in the evicirator sys we learn how easily it was for them to kill and hostage and orokin ship which they had to kidnap someone for them to fly. that made sure the grineer would not revolt.

If you ever Read the House of Scorpion the book we are given an idea of a device that is placed on the individual which allows the head of the house and anyone to tell the workforce what to do.This device comes in different levels the lowest level being you have no freedom and you can only do something when your told so to the freedom were you have your free will you just cannot defy your main master order or do anything that you brain understand could bring harm to your master.This device was control by huge satelite that was in space.

While i may be speculating here ,but as an orokin with advance tech i could do so much better with a device you place and instead build it into their DNA so that they will do their job and do the Job they are assign for.

You can easily give someone the capability to learn to do something specefic quickly by manipulating their DNA.

well after reading what i said i dought that their would be an understanding but in summary

<<<background

CONCLUCION

I believe the orokin must have had some form of fail safe system that durring the sentient and Infested battles was damage which allowed the production of grineer we see in the sys to be able to revolt.

Is like if you gave a Human the loyalty an ant has for their ant queen then the human wouldn't revolt against their master or leader such as simple genetic shift or damage to this procedure and you can get new ant with free will to choose who they want to be their queen.

One of my main reason i believe this is the fact that grineer are all about keeping themselves safe unless something desperate occur like the founding of the Orokin that hte ancestors did or the idea of sentients.After so we can easily see they are about self preservation so making a bunch of clone able to use tools and complex equipment without a fail safe is stupid specialty if they are more advance then we are because we all know kid and animal learn through imitation which would be a simple way for them to learn to use the tools that the orokin used except that they can't which bring me to the point why can they not after all the time and just to mention if they could the present grineer would be running with Orokin tech.

If they were smarter then the present grineer then learning orokin tech and how is used would have been easier for them and would have been able to adapt if they were engineer so that they could do their specific job perfectly but couldn't learn any other trade mark by manipulating genes relating to brain development and integration of other forms then it would make sense why they couldn't learn and why the fact that now in the future the clones are able to learn new trades because the new reproduction method does not bring the fail safe.

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Holy S#&$ I read all the pages. Ya'll are too hard on Leavith. His point of view makes perfect sense. I just don't agree with his view. Anyways all of this was mostly enlightening. Long live Lotus

i am amaze that you bother...most people choose to ignore and not try mainly because of my lack of knowing how to express my idea in the way they can understand but thank you i really appreciate your comment

Long Live Orokin Until i learn what they done that was wrong against me

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I personally like the fact that there is no real "these guys are the definitive badguys and these ones are the definitive Good Guys", i mean Ninjas in a historical sense wernt the "Noble" figures that hollywood painted them as, for the most part they were Spies and Assassins, generally Mercenaries. I like the fact that We Tenno are completely Oblivious to the Heroes or Villains we were before we went into Stasis

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It's implied/hinted that they created them in the Crewman synthesis imprint and the info Steve gave us about the Sentients in a devstream. The hint being that they adapt to what damages them and become more resilient.

 

No the Corpus working for the Orokin created it.

Which is probably why the Corpus call "Lotus" a traitor. Cause "Lotus" is one of their machines.

 

Though of course the grineer are cloned but they do have a genetic disposition towards language and knowledge as humans.

 

If they were going to perform labour they, of course, needed that.

Again, like dogs, some dogs are better suited for certain things because they have better X, Y, Z.

And this is one of the big problems with having dogs as pets. People dont learn about the breed they adopt and they get into trouble because the dog is built for something and goes on to perform it's duty which can lead to trouble.

This was probably why the Grineer Empire happened. They are build for work so they work and put everyone to work.

If the Grineer were servants they would be likely not formed an empire cause they werent build Ford tough.

 

Grineer are intelligent though. They clearly speak language and have the capacity to operate electronic systems. Though I do say they are intelligent, they are also constantly bombarded with propaganda on a day to day basis. Some have adverse affects from genetic degradation and defects further lowering their brain capacity.

 

Original Grineer did manual labour, you dont need a Masters degree to do that.

 

Yet parrots do not understand english they merely mimic a sound they have heard

 

How do you think people learn to speak? To kids go to school to learn to speak or do they speak because they mimic the people that are around them?

 

Parrots do the same as kids.

And if you teach them then they can learn what stuff means.

 

We can assume the orokin are human based on the other factions being human and possibility that the tenno are also human. The Orokin may have been the ruling class of the era and their ability to manipulate human thought patterns fits the bill.

 

Orokin also engineered Kubs so it fits the bill that they can create different kinds of life.

Grineer could be hairless Gorillas!

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This is about the Natah quest so dont read on if you havent done it.

 

 

 

 

 

So good ol' Stalker telling us to chill with all the killing that "Lotus" was sending us to do was right all along!

 

I think it's time for DE to let us pick sides here because i dont know about you people but.... i dont want some lady with baby issues waving keys in front of me so she could feel better about herself.

 

 

After ........ getting equinox i dont think i will kill any more bosses "Lotus" sends me to kill.

And i say after because i didnt do the quest right away.

 

So we need some "The Stalker was right" T-shirts on the merch store.

We need new mission controllers.

And we need a mission where like the G-dilemma where people get to break from the "Lotus."

That event will be some Tenno attacking "Lotus" home base attempting to kill her and some defending.

Please dont give the defending sides the better weapons, DE.

This should be the FIRST totally even contest.

The Stalker Army gets the Stalker Grakata (wraith?) and the Lotus Faithful get the Dex Grakata.

Why would i turn against the first who did something good for us?

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Why would i turn against the first who did something good for us?

He has a point but then again on the day of the celebration we learn that we were being celebrated and we were consider saviors and basically their heroes...Good things were to come our way and people were gonna fear us and respect us and do good for us that what i believe .

What lotus did was not good for us killing the people who were in power was her mission.As how she got us to do it is a mystery to me.

But on the codex stalker entry we quickly learn that was our prom day the day when the tenno were no more rejects but now recognize as the heroes that saved the empire by defeating the sentient that was the day we were gonna be rewarded.But why did we turn is my question

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He has a point but then again on the day of the celebration we learn that we were being celebrated and we were consider saviors and basically their heroes...Good things were to come our way and people were gonna fear us and respect us and do good for us that what i believe .

What lotus did was not good for us killing the people who were in power was her mission.As how she got us to do it is a mystery to me.

But on the codex stalker entry we quickly learn that was our prom day the day when the tenno were no more rejects but now recognize as the heroes that saved the empire by defeating the sentient that was the day we were gonna be rewarded.But why did we turn is my question

This is a good point.

For the most part, none of us can anwser that question.

The tenno came in the worst part of that war, when the orokin would do anything to win or simply survive.

The tenno only knew the darkest side of the orokin and from what we know they suffered alot.

I think they turned against the orokin for revenge.

Did they have waited the ending of the old war to:strike in the heart of the orokin empire,not having to deal with sentient while they do that or the tenno joined the sentient and this was a part of the plan.

These 3 possibility might have been motivated by hate.

these are not the only possibility.

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