So Wait... The Stalker Was Right? (Spoilers?)

[Morec0]

If that was a Sentient that story reads like it was created by the Corpus. Then the Orokin gave it the OK cause they were desperate.

So this could be why the Corpus call "Lotus" a traitor.

 

 

 

If you are the type of person that's is going to sit there and die, thats cool.

But dont judge the people that fight to live and they save everyone.

 

 

Correct, it's vague.

We dont know what happened, when it happened, or how many times it happened.

 

Keep in mind that, at the time, corpus seems to have been more of a familial unit than a megacorporation - as would be attested to by the father in the Anti-Moa synth noting that "Orokin didn't have parents" when his son asks him about his own father - moreover these corpus seemed to belong to a different group, the Archimedean. Though, like the Dax, they're likely groups that have fizzled out of existence by the modern era.

 

And I'm not arguing that the Orokin were wrong to make the Sentients, I'm arguing that whatever happened after the Sentients completed the rail to start the Old War may have been them acting in the wrong.

 

You do have an interesting point, though I'd find it a bit odd if the Corpus knew Lotus' secret when Regor - who seems to have a fair grasp of the Sentients in relation to their own history - and other characters do. Warrant further review, I suppose.

 

---

 

There's waiting to sit and die, and then there's turning to horrible methods and plans in order to survive - one could argue it's better to die a man than let yourself become something worse than it, let yourself become a monster.

 

---

 

And while one could argue that might excuse the creation of the Tenno it WOULD NOT excuse the use of Grineer slave labor - which could be argued as worse given the Orokin are literally MAKING these people to work and only to work without giving them any kind of other freedom.

 

All we have to go off is the soldier in Mag's Codex saying it was done in "the Void Era", but there are people who'll argue the Void Era came AFTER the Orokin Era, rather than before, so there's really no telling.

[zellers4]

Fact is, there's really nobody else to side with besides Lotus.

 

- Stalker wants us dead.

- Grineer would chop us up and study us.

- Corpus would chop us up and study us.

- Infested would infest.

 

None of the Syndicates or smaller factions have the resources to manage/organize every single Tenno operation the way that Lotus does.

 

One side note how do you know that lotus has resources? We have yet to see her "physically" in game and we have no idea what her financial state is like. I really doubt that she had the resources to build all the things that are in the relay. 

[XtheMATTx]

Ya you know the orokin were awful right? They made the sentients, the made the infested to fight the sentients, then when the infested just started killing everyone they experimented on children to make the Tenno. They used the grineer as slaves and that's what made the grineer turn.

Like the orokin committed hella war crimes.

The CORPUS of the orokin era made the SENTIENT(singular people!)

[Mak_Gohae]

Lotus still has humanity's best interests at heart, why do you think she completely betrayed her own people, never waking them up, leaving them to spend eternity in stasis while allowing humanity to survive and prosper?

 

She still sends us to stop the Corpus from destroying everything with science gone wrong, and sends us to stop the Grineer from total systemic domination.

 

What is humanity?

The Red Veil? The New Loka? Everyone else is either some version of Grineer, Corpus, or Tenno.

And "Lotus" sends us to attack everyone but other Tennos.

[Leavith]

There is no other evidence of any other factions.

 

The sentients were created to build a solar rail in another solar system so the orokin could go there so that they would become more powerful. There were no threats, because we would have heard about them or between them, the sentients, and the infested all humanoid life would have been wiped out. If it was some environmental threat wouldn't we still be dealing with that now?

Well i know their no other faction but if we look at the crewman lore it brings we understand that their was an issue for the Court to even try to listen to the sentient creator as they did.

Look carefully how they 1st respond to the sentient then after they are told ti could save them by building bridges and by terrafroming to another system they gladly began to question their ideology no talk about money seen to be exchange here so it must have been the issue for them wanting to survive not of them looking for another profit also the Corpus are also introduce here to us them being a project.

Now if we just take a simple look at it yeah their was an issue and this researcher had a found a form of solution to this issue.

But the researcher also says kill me and your empire die

So lets keep it real if the solution was migrating to the another system what could be so great that would caused their empire to die if they didn't take his solution?What could be so great that they would gamble on something like the sentient?What could have been the issue that caused them to consider migrating?

I don't think it was about power since they were looking for somewhere new to move.

Their was threat that is all i can trully say that was the reason they Sentient were made to solve it by moving .It could have been population,disease,something but apparently we don't know yet

[Morec0]

What is humanity?

The Red Veil? The New Loka? Everyone else is either some version of Grineer, Corpus, or Tenno.

And "Lotus" sends us to attack everyone but other Tennos.

 

Technically every enemy faction (save the Sentients) is some variation of human - evolve, ascended, or cloned, perhaps, but still human. And the Perrin Sequence and Steel Meridian aren't technically Corpus and Grineer, they're splinter groups. Sort of like how the American South no longer considered itself a part of the U.S. during the Civil War, but instead it's own entity.

 

Grineer's those who are loyal to the Queens.

 

Corpus' those who work for that big megacorporation of theirs.

 

And I'd wager that's because no Tenno are being as horrendously monstrous as the Grineer and Corpus (though really the Corpus are more greedy $&*^ than insufferable fascists).

Edited August 10, 2015 by Morec0

[Gelkor]

What is humanity?

The Red Veil? The New Loka? Everyone else is either some version of Grineer, Corpus, or Tenno.

And "Lotus" sends us to attack everyone but other Tennos.

 

The devs have mentioned previously that the large part of the solar system is just baseline human settlements with no military value, EG: We don't go there to blow S#&$ up because it's nothing but civilians.  The Grineer talk alot about how they are the "police" for the human colonies, the colonies that they take over and subject to their iron rule. 

 

There are civilians, a lot of them, we just don't go there because of animation budgets and it's not crucial to the game play at the moment.  How many civilians did you ever see in Halo or Mass Effect? Maybe a 100 over the whole series, maybe. But that doesn't mean their universes are solely populated with cyborg super soldiers and super-powered alien soldiers.  There are civilians, they are just uninteresting so we don't see them.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Gelkor

[Leavith]

Well my syndicates are to the Red Veil and Steel Meridian

Lets purify the world

and Lets make sure the people who are suffering don't suffer no more------I almost made reference that a bullet to the head would keep the pain away-----but i will save that for a morbid thread

 

Now just putting some extra imput i am sure looking at more of Ask cephalon older reports we can find more correlation to some of the present day activities that happend in the Origin system.I would also like to add does no one find it strange the lack of gravity,the over abundance of air,and the strange climates that exist on the planet tile set.

I mean i go to pluto i expect lack of oxygen lack of light and alot of things but is like all the planets have been turned to an area that can be inhabited i wonder who did that......Cought..Orokin.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Leavith

[immolator1001]

Over population is a problem. They needed more space and didn't want to have to convert their houses into condos, so had to expand. But then the Tenno revolted and a lot of people died. So problem solved. =D

If over population was a problem why did they make a clone slave army?

 

 

 

The CORPUS of the orokin era made the SENTIENT(singular people!)

Ya the corpus made the original sentient because the orokin told them to. And who cares if its singular it made more of itself.

 

 

Well i know their no other faction but if we look at the crewman lore it brings we understand that their was an issue for the Court to even try to listen to the sentient creator as they did.

Look carefully how they 1st respond to the sentient then after they are told ti could save them by building bridges and by terrafroming to another system they gladly began to question their ideology no talk about money seen to be exchange here so it must have been the issue for them wanting to survive not of them looking for another profit also the Corpus are also introduce here to us them being a project.

Now if we just take a simple look at it yeah their was an issue and this researcher had a found a form of solution to this issue.

But the researcher also says kill me and your empire die

So lets keep it real if the solution was migrating to the another system what could be so great that would caused their empire to die if they didn't take his solution?What could be so great that they would gamble on something like the sentient?What could have been the issue that caused them to consider migrating?

I don't think it was about power since they were looking for somewhere new to move.

Their was threat that is all i can trully say that was the reason they Sentient were made to solve it by moving .It could have been population,disease,something but apparently we don't know yet

A lot of empires throughout history have been based on constant expansion. The orokin literally got so big they needed to leave the solar system. 

 

It wasn't population because the orokin decided they needed to support a massive clone slave force.

It wasn't disease because the only diseases we've heard of are the infested and grineer genetic degeneracy.

 

Why are we giving the orokin so much leniency? We don't so "oh the infested need to consume flesh to live maybe they aren't so bad" why say "oh the orokin needed to create a sentient race of machines, clone slave force, and experiment on children to make war gods to survive they probably had a good reason."

 

Could it be that they were so greedy and power driven that they hubris caught up to them? That's the point of the sentient right? That the more technologically advanced the orokin got the more they were doomed?

[FierceRadiance]

I don't pick sides, I don't moralize.  I get paid to kill, I mouth off...and I break the fourth wall.  Call me...Deadpool.

[Leavith]

I-Snip

Well the Slave army is disposable i don't think they were priority so yeah over population is still an issue.

Now that they had a slave army they needed to feed it lack of resources and now that the population kept growing they needed to feed them too

As far as i could tell the Grineer were disposable slaves that the whole idea behind them being clones not individuals.So i don;t think it was support the slave force more like give it minimal health so they can do their job and then they can die doing their job and be fertilizer for the food they grew well at least that what i would do.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Leavith

[Arceus255]

Fact is, there's really nobody else to side with besides Lotus.

 

- Stalker wants us dead.

- Grineer would chop us up and study us.

- Corpus would chop us up and study us.

- Infested would infest.

 

None of the Syndicates or smaller factions have the resources to manage/organize every single Tenno operation the way that Lotus does.

what about our lord and savior teshin

[Leavith]

what about our lord and savior teshin

You also have cephalon

[AM-Bunny]

One side note how do you know that lotus has resources? We have yet to see her "physically" in game and we have no idea what her financial state is like. I really doubt that she had the resources to build all the things that are in the relay. 

 

The main 'resource' I'm referring to is the fact that she is psychically connected to every Tenno, and seems to have some control over them (seen when she overcharged the player in Vor's Prize).

 

We've seen during Gravidus and the various invasions that Tenno simultaneously support both sides in a single conflict. Why do you think it is that Tenno supporting Grineer in an invasion never encounter Tenno supporting Corpus in the same invasion? Because each and every excursion is supervised by The Lotus who ensures this never happens.

 

She's really the only one with the capability to do this.

[Leavith]

The main 'resource' I'm referring to is the fact that she is psychically connected to every Tenno, and seems to have some control over them (seen when she overcharged the player in Vor's Prize).

 

We've seen during Gravidus and the various invasions that Tenno simultaneously support both sides in a single conflict. Why do you think it is that Tenno supporting Grineer in an invasion never encounter Tenno supporting Corpus in the same invasion? Because each and every excursion is supervised by The Lotus who ensures this never happens.

 

She's really the only one with the capability to do this.

THATS A MORE REASON i don;t like being connected or controlled...SO then guys i am joining the Stalkers we are gonna change the name as well

this is probably one of those flaws the Orokin like putting on their creation to make sure that their is always an operator.

That probably what the Lotus is except that she replace the old operator to take over the tenno who then she relies she could have as her children

Edited August 10, 2015 by Leavith

[Ryme]

If over population was a problem why did they make a clone slave army?

 

Because you can just stick them in a locker and that takes no space at all. Grineer weren't considered a race unto themselves. They were artificially created and the equivalent of meaty Roombas.

[Leavith]

Because you can just stick them in a locker and that takes no space at all. Grineer weren't considered a race unto themselves. They were artificially created and the equivalent of meaty Roombas.

 

 

 

 

i would actually go being fertilizer to grow plant.Might be a reason why the grineer decided they hated earth so much to polluted 

[Deshiel]

Reminds me of the comic I did.

 

[AM-Bunny]

THATS A MORE REASON i don;t like being connected or controlled...SO then guys i am joining the Stalkers we are gonna change the name as well

this is probably one of those flaws the Orokin like putting on their creation to make sure that their is always an operator.

That probably what the Lotus is except that she replace the old operator to take over the tenno who then she relies she could have as her children

 

You're aware that Stalker's singular motivation for existing all this time is to murder you, correct?

 

The chances of him ever working with a Tenno are lower than Sargas Ruk and Alad V spending a night in bed together.

[immolator1001]

Because you can just stick them in a locker and that takes no space at all. Grineer weren't considered a race unto themselves. They were artificially created and the equivalent of meaty Roombas.

 

 

Well the Slave army is disposable i don't think they were priority so yeah over population is still an issue.

Now that they had a slave army they needed to feed it lack of resources and now that the population kept growing they needed to feed them too

As far as i could tell the Grineer were disposable slaves that the whole idea behind them being clones not individuals.So i don;t think it was support the slave force more like give it minimal health so they can do their job and then they can die doing their job and be fertilizer for the food they grew well at least that what i would do.

 

But why build a clone army that need food and shelter over a robot army that only needs electricity?

If they could make cephalons and a sentient surely making robots smart enough to mine and fix stuff wouldn't be that hard.

[-Vane-]

I only stand by Tenshin and the Conclave. Forever bound to PvP.

[Leavith]

But why build a clone army that need food and shelter over a robot army that only needs electricity?

If they could make cephalons and a sentient surely making robots smart enough to mine and fix stuff wouldn't be that hard.

well they kind of fear robots and the sentient when you think about they were redundant to use the sentient they actually wanted to destroy it as well as the Robots their was already situation in the Cephalon ask report that the Driller machine was meant to make the process more effective and more efficient so the machine in it program relies that the Manuel labor was the best option so what did he used the researcher as the workers.

So whatever they mining needed was faster to use workers with tools then use machine.

oh and as for shelter i think they just kept them in closets or in the hole they dug up to mine.

[Mak_Gohae]

Loyalists would be getting weapons from the Lotus, separatists would be building their own... Yeah, Lotus' side would have much better weapons.

 

If you want to get technical here....the Stalker Army would have Grakata Prime.

Anyway, the point is letting people actually decide base on what they like instead of just going for loot.

 

The crewman sythesis and Natah quest make it clear the orokin made the things that turned into the sentients.

And yes read ember prime's codex. They wouldn't say children if they didn't mean children. Again this is further confirmed by the lotus wanting children/to be a mother.

Ya but they created all the things that tried to kill them. It's not like there was an outside force, they were just greedy/stupid and made 4 different factions the sentients, infested, grineer, and Tenno (Possibly the corpus) who wanted to kill them.

They dug their own grave.

 

What part of the natah quest made it clear? If we take the Crewman tale it looks like it was a Corpus thing that the Orokin decided to use against their better judgement.

 

And in the Ember thing the army person clearly says, "what children?"

So the may look like children but they could've been something else.

 

Fact is, there's really nobody else to side with besides Lotus.

 

- Stalker wants us dead.

- Grineer would chop us up and study us.

- Corpus would chop us up and study us.

- Infested would infest.

 

None of the Syndicates or smaller factions have the resources to manage/organize every single Tenno operation the way that Lotus does.

 

Stalker, Grineer, and Corpus problems come from "Lotus."

Once Tenno separate from her we can all work together in peace.

Except the Infested. We need a lot of talks with their diplomats about their infestation.

[AM-Bunny]

Stalker, Grineer, and Corpus problems come from "Lotus."

Once Tenno separate from her we can all work together in peace.

Except the Infested. We need a lot of talks with their diplomats about their infestation.

 

Grineer and Corpus problems have nothing to do with Lotus, they have to with these factions coveting our power and wishing to use it themselves.

 

If you think Stalker will suddenly be understanding and forgiving if we broke away from Lotus, I question whether you've read his Codex entry.

[immolator1001]

If you want to get technical here....the Stalker Army would have Grakata Prime.

Anyway, the point is letting people actually decide base on what they like instead of just going for loot.

 

 

What part of the natah quest made it clear? If we take the Crewman tale it looks like it was a Corpus thing that the Orokin decided to use against their better judgement.

 

And in the Ember thing the army person clearly says, "what children?"

So the may look like children but they could've been something else.

 

 

Stalker, Grineer, and Corpus problems come from "Lotus."

Once Tenno separate from her we can all work together in peace.

Except the Infested. We need a lot of talks with their diplomats about their infestation.

The corpus weren't in charge. At the time they weren't even a faction corpus talked about a family/clan unit. And even if the orokin didn't make the sentient themselves they still decided to use it. It wouldn't have been made if the orokin didn't want it.

And reread the ember prime codex, the tone is clearly that Kaleen is the honest caring solider and the other woman is trying to cover something up. It pretty clear the older woman is lying.

The rhino prime codex shows that the government wants to cover up the Zariman because they call it the ship that never returned, yet they have bodies from it in the morgue.