Pc Psa: Covert Lethality + Exalted Blade Changes

[HeroPwn]

OMG/.

 

You are not forced to use anything. They are taking away diversity. Do you not understand that.

Look man, you're trying to deny the obvious. The fact that those augments are weapon specific makes you not choose any other weapon that doesn't have them. You want some health and a viral proc? Great, the negative part is that you're forced to only choose one of the 3 skanas and throwing away tons of other melees. 

 

You can say "But EB only relies on any mods on my weapon and not the weapon itself" but one of those mods is weapon-specific, making you take a specific weapon with you, something EB was NEVER intended to do in the first place.

[Onisa]

Look man, you're trying to deny the obvious. The fact that those augments are weapon specific makes you not choose any other weapon that doesn't have them. You want some health and a viral proc? Great, the negative part is that you're forced to only choose one of the 3 skanas and throwing away tons of other melees. 

 

You can say "But EB only relies on any mods on my weapon and not the weapon itself" but one of those mods is weapon-specific, making you take a specific weapon with you, something EB was NEVER intended to do in the first place.

And Excalibur's passive doesn't do that same thing to a slightly lesser extent?

[HeroPwn]

And Excalibur's passive doesn't do that same thing to a slightly lesser extent?

Technically yes, but 10% extra damage and .1 additional speed isn't that noticeable when the difference between the damage is only around 2000 when using EB.

[Onisa]

Technically yes, but 10% extra damage and .1 additional speed isn't that noticeable when the difference between the damage is only around 2000 when using EB.

So what were the raw numbers that the augments were making up for then? Or is it that the procs are 'noticeable'?

[Rebellis]

Look man, you're trying to deny the obvious. The fact that those augments are weapon specific makes you not choose any other weapon that doesn't have them. You want some health and a viral proc? Great, the negative part is that you're forced to only choose one of the 3 skanas and throwing away tons of other melees. 

 

You can say "But EB only relies on any mods on my weapon and not the weapon itself" but one of those mods is weapon-specific, making you take a specific weapon with you, something EB was NEVER intended to do in the first place.

 

The way it works now is you can use any melee weapon you want, with the added diversity of choosing to use syndicate augments on several of those weapons to give Exalted Blade an energy or health boost, along with viral, corrosive, or blast AoE. The choice is yours.

 

The way it will work with the coming change is you really won't need anything other than the free skana. Why?

 

Because Exalted Blade has always been better than any normal melee weapon. Not just that, but EB draws from the melee weapons mod selection. And, if you're not modding for EB, then there's really no reason to play Excal.

 

Skana or Dragon Nikana? It won't matter in a week or two. You can just stay with the free Skana, mod it for EB, mod Excal with Steel Charge plus max efficiency to keep EB up for 40+ minutes straight, do tons of damage, and not worry about crafting anything new because it won't be any better than that.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Rebellis

[Charoy]

Hahahah, you guys deleted ALL my comments on this thread, two of them on first page, and the first one being the most voted comment of the topic ... and just because it was a complaint against these changes. You are so @(*()$ pathetic. Go on, delete this comment as well.

[Plagin]

What about an own melee-modding page for excaliburs EB? Everyone would be happy being able to use any melee weapon they want and the devs do not have to think about 'fixing' this proplem by limiting mods to make it possible to play with any weapon. They dont have to think about synd procs because there is no eb-synd mod, but u still have the proc and skana/dual-clevers buff on your normal melee weapon. :) In my opinion this is the best solution, what do u think about it? :D

btw, dont forget valk to give her an own page too. Cause, u know, your weapon modding depends on her too when playing her on hysteria :)

[Fenicis]

There goes the tactical approach to excalibur...

[HeroPwn]

The way it works now is you can use any melee weapon you want, with the added diversity of choosing to use syndicate augments on several of those weapons to give Exalted Blade an energy or health boost, along with viral, corrosive, or blast AoE. The choice is yours.

 

The way it will work with the coming change is you really won't need anything other than the free skana. Why?

 

Because Exalted Blade has always been better than any normal melee weapon. Not just that, but EB draws from the melee weapons mod selection. And, if you're not modding for EB, then there's really no reason to play Excal.

 

Skana or Dragon Nikana? It won't matter in a week or two. You can just stay with the free Skana, mod it for EB, mod Excal with Steel Charge plus max efficiency to keep EB up for 40+ minutes straight, do tons of damage, and not worry about crafting anything new because it won't be any better than that.

Honestly any players using a skana/EB combo is most likely a new player and doesn't have a good build neither on their Excal or their weapons.

While you won't be able to make your EB better, I'm liking the fact that I can pick a weapon like ack and brunt and not worry about losing some mere damage. Does it really matter in the end? For me, most likely not, as I've been able to do 80 minutes on T3S with EB only with or without the augments.

[Sci_Ant]

Why was my latest comment where I was actually supporting DE's changes also deleted? I didn't abuse anyone in that. I didn't provoke or call out anyone specific in that. What the hell is going on here? Let me 'clean up' my post then if it was so unbearable.

 

All I said was :

 

To the players who are going to trash their daggers, sell their mods etc., don't blame DE when they buff / change / add to it in some other way and then you don't have those things anymore.

 

To the players who are going to shelve Excalibur or going to uninstall the game, it's a great relief we won't have to play with Press 4 to win spammers.

 

To the players who are upset that their syndicate augmented weapons aren't going to perform as well, just play with all of Excalibur's powers along with the weapon.

 

A warframe's final output should be a combination of it's innate stats, it's abilities, mods, augments, and the final weapon you choose to take with you. Not limited to just 1 power, 1 mod or 1 augment.

 

Excal is a melee frame frame whose powers are focused on adding damage to your melee or making things easier to kill with the melee weapon. So obviously no melee weapon has lost it's viability, all melee weapons have only gained it since only the mods on it affect EB and the weapon's damage output can be heavily increased by Excal's powers, augment mods.

 

Long ago I did a T3 Def to wave 40 with no defense frames (Frost , Limbo) and a bunch of others and I myself was using only pre-rework Excal with a max range Radial Blind build and Prisma Skana. We breezed through it without a hitch and I ended up doing 30 % of the damage with only an augmented Prisma Skana. This shows that any melee is viable with Excal so long as you play him correctly and use all his powers to your advantage.

 

He is still extremely viable and is actually balanced now.

 

Good job DE!

Edited August 15, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[Uhkretor]

You pretty much jumped him for wanting to use his Skana Prime with his Excalibur Prime. Well, assuming he didn't sell Excalibur Prime, but why would a founder need/want to? It would be interesting if DE released those items,if only for the riot in the forums over 'breaking immersion'. It was more your self proclaimed bluntness making your reply look like an attack on someone's choices that earned my reply. I generally don't bother with matching past color palette.

 

 

It was either that or quote your post in it's entirety again and I didn't feel the page needed stretching. I suppose ~snip~ would have worked, unless that offends you too.

 

The PG rating enforced on these forums can make certain messages difficult to get across. I'll take it as the one I was trying to send you is not one you are familiar with, so here's the gist: 'You seem very irritated over something trivial. It's not worth getting worked up over.'

 

Side note: while I understand you were referencing flatulence the first message I got was that you were full of hot air.

 

See, people always see my bluntness as an attack of sorts which is why I always apologize in advance... But most don't really even accept that apology in the first place because its -always- the truth, and it hurts badly.

 

Usually, when I shorten up quotes, I use:

"(...)

<quoted part>

(...)"

 

... Because if you cut down the whole thing and write something to replace the huge pile of words, some within the community will not understand what exactly, or what section, you are quoting. I don't know if you are on the same page as me on that part, and I don't really care, but I like people to properly understand things.

 

Before I forget, unless you're actually quoting about the topic at hand from now on (after I post this reply), I suggest stopping the useless off-topic quoting... If you don't keep yourself on-topic like I'm trying to be, I'm going to assume that you're lashing at me directly and I'll have to take proper actions for it.

 

----------------------- x -----------------------

 

... Back on topic, my new dagger has finished building. I'm going to see for myself if the problem (if there IS one) about stealth killing with Covert Lethality is valid or not. If there is none, I think that it ends up being proven (once again) that this is the usual "Oh noes! the Devs changed <whatever>! Nerf rage ranting!!!!!!111111oneoneone"...

 

If there is something wrong and valid, I'll share what I found here and it'll end up helping the devs understand what needs to be done about daggers instead of just having a group of fellow players more interested in having daggers buffed in very specific ways just to tailor the specific tastes and/or needs of fellow individual players. I believe its a lot more constructive for everyone.

[BlueFalcon13]

This is funny... I main excal... 30% of my games-time is on excal Prime. Excal has ALWAYS been useful. The syndicate mods made it so I felt I HAD to run those weapons to be at my maximum performance. Now I don't have that feeling. D. Nikana here I come!

[FelisImpurrator]

Hahahah, you guys deleted ALL my comments on this thread, two of them on first page, and the first one being the most voted comment of the topic ... and just because it was a complaint against these changes. You are so @(*()$ pathetic. Go on, delete this comment as well.

>devbashes

>gets rekt for devbashing

>complains about getting rekt for devbashing

 

This gif is gonna get a LOT of use in the near future, I predict.

[Uhkretor]

I'm pretty sure it will >_>"

[Rebellis]

Honestly any players using a skana/EB combo is most likely a new player and doesn't have a good build neither on their Excal or their weapons.

 

There is honestly no reason to mod or play Excal other than for Exalted Blade, so please show us your "good" builds so we may learn from your knowledge.

[Kalvorax]

Having the syn proc with EB is NICE...it adds some oomph (1k aoe elemental damage) and what ever syndicate proc gives (HP is NICE...armour, eh unless you have 3k+ its useless, have yet to try the parkour 2.0 changes for AoH, and the Energy regen is VERY nice when I'm using ALL of excals other powers combined with EB) if you guys REALLY insist on taking them off EB, at least make it so its longsword's only (aka skana (and its variants), mire...ummm, idk what else) dual cleavers....really....it uses a TWO SWORD STANCE, so unless you plan on making a stance elusive to the vleavers (why not :P) then make that part also........

 

i still use other weapons apart from augmented weapons with Excal....it DOES get a bit stale using the same weapon all the time....so it wont hurt me, its just that the synd augments are a nice addition when i DO choose to use those weapons.

I could careless about the change to CL as, imo, that was how I thought it would be from the start and how i played it.

Edited August 15, 2015 by xcynderx

[FelisImpurrator]

Yeah, I still think that it's worth slotting on a dagger. I'm sure there are those that would say the weapon category itself is not worth the time after this nerf, bit I've always been fond of it, so I wouldn't say the mod is 'useless'.

And on this note... my Ceramic Dagger now outDPSes my Dragon Nikana with no forma on either one, even with a slot sacrificed for Primed Reach. The mod also blows Spoiled Strike out of the water utterly.

 

After all, daggers strike at LEAST twice as fast as a Nikana... what was that about "trash mods" again?

[BlueFalcon13]

There is honestly no reason to mod or play Excal other than for Exalted Blade, so please show us your "good" builds so we may learn from your knowledge.

Try this one, melee centric focused on radial blind...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=498081699

[xXCALLUMXx02]

why is every one saying that this is bad, i think that the people how make the game can do what they want, becuase why keep changing everything do becuase people dont like it. whats the point.  i think every one should think about over warframes like rhino becuase he used to be so good now his rhino shei

[Pacheon]

>devbashes

>gets rekt for devbashing

>complains about getting rekt for devbashing

This gif is gonna get a LOT of use in the near future, I predict.

OT:

I knew that EB will see some heavy nerfs, but still it is a shame that unique weapons will lose their usability. 100% more damage and now? A thorn in the eyes of the nerf squad. They don't care about the syndicate specific buffs, they only try to balance things. Sure. But they don't think further as most of us want them to. People using Prisma Skana with maxed damage mods, an elemental combo and the aug mod are causing too much damage an lv 70 units during the 40th survival min? Great. Do you guys even think and calculate further? The enemies are changing even their names when players hitting the 80th minute of torture, where the real fun starts at. I used to do those stages with the dragon nikana, while I was not owning the aug mod for skana. Max damage of 70k ~ 80k was just too low for lv 130+ enemies.

Still having doubts that DE is actually knowing what they are doing.

Like the Frost's Snow Globe + Aug. Freezing enemies, pushing them away, hitting obstacles/walls result into percent of health damage?

Really?

DE, do us a favor, get to some cryogenic labs, take a banana with you and a hammer, freeze that banana in liquid nitrogen, briefly hit it with the hammer. IT WILL SHATTER RIGHT AWAY!

Or push an ice sculpture off a table down to the floor, IT WILL SHATTER!

What's this nonsense about the percentage health damage mechanics all about?!

Seriously...

Edited August 15, 2015 by Pacheon

[Rebellis]

Try this one, melee centric focused on radial blind...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=498081699

 

Just use Mirage.

[Fattness]

So you're taking away the whole reason i dusted off my Skana so i could actually have some use for it on my exal. WTF DE. You said mere WEEKS ago that syndicate mods were working as intended w/ EB now you you're taking it away. Seriously what bull feces is this. With the changes syndicate mods become effectively worthless.

[Onisa]

See, people always see my bluntness as an attack of sorts which is why I always apologize in advance... But most don't really even accept that apology in the first place because its -always- the truth, and it hurts badly.

 

Usually, when I shorten up quotes, I use:

"(...)

<quoted part>

(...)"

 

... Because if you cut down the whole thing and write something to replace the huge pile of words, some within the community will not understand what exactly, or what section, you are quoting. I don't know if you are on the same page as me on that part, and I don't really care, but I like people to properly understand things.

 

Before I forget, unless you're actually quoting about the topic at hand from now on (after I post this reply), I suggest stopping the useless off-topic quoting... If you don't keep yourself on-topic like I'm trying to be, I'm going to assume that you're lashing at me directly and I'll have to take proper actions for it.

 

----------------------- x -----------------------

 

... Back on topic, my new dagger has finished building. I'm going to see for myself if the problem (if there IS one) about stealth killing with Covert Lethality is valid or not. If there is none, I think that it ends up being proven (once again) that this is the usual "Oh noes! the Devs changed <whatever>! Nerf rage ranting!!!!!!111111oneoneone"...

 

If there is something wrong and valid, I'll share what I found here and it'll end up helping the devs understand what needs to be done about daggers instead of just having a group of fellow players more interested in having daggers buffed in very specific ways just to tailor the specific tastes and/or needs of fellow individual players. I believe its a lot more constructive for everyone.

If what DEMegan has posted is true the mod has gone from something that brought daggers on par with other melee weapons regarding stealth play to simply a different spoiled strike with a different downside (six extra mod cost vs -15% attack speed). The bonus 'lethal' damage has been restricted to stealth finishers that during normal game play generally get the job done without Covert Lethality. Add to that the long animations tied to stealth finishers being detrimental to stealth play in general and I can see why many would feel the weapon class has gone back into the dumpster.

[Sci_Ant]

Just use Mirage.

 

But sometimes people don't want to just Blind, they want to use the other abilities like auto-parry on EB, or increase of melee damage from RJ augment or even Slash Dash to increase the melee combo counter or just get rid of enemies in a hallway or travel really fast to high places with it's new functionality. Mirage can't let us do exactly those things now can she? She can let us do things like damage increase or blind in different ways, but it's still not Excal is it?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[BlueFalcon13]

Just use Mirage.

The whole point of the build is something more tanky. Decent dmg reduction via armor, stacked with nikana's 85% dmg reduction from block, plus rage and life strike gets you significantly further than mirage would. Add in a counter builder/maintainer in slashdash, an AoE dmg/stagger and you are leaps and bounds better than what mirage can do. As for the icing on the cake: does mirage one shot lvl 90 heavy gunners? Excal can with most melee weapons with this build.