Pc Psa: Covert Lethality + Exalted Blade Changes

[xXCALLUMXx02]

why is everyone so mad about this, if the makers think that this is OP ,really it is then,so they maked it not that op so then people can play the game probably where they have to try and kill stuff then just killing everything in one hit.

 

i think that instead of people complaining about this, that every one should be asking for buffs on older warframes like rhino because his rhino shield get Brock at like level 20 and im talking about rhino prime i don't want to know how bad rhino normal is, and there is volt that does no damage or anything he can't even say alive on level 20 to these kind of warframes should be buffed so you can have more fun with them and ask the makers to do this and stop moaning at little things like this 

why is everyone so mad about this, if the makers think that this is OP ,really it is then,so they maked it not that op so then people can play the game probably where they have to try and kill stuff then just killing everything in one hit.

 

i think that instead of people complaining about this, that every one should be asking for buffs on older warframes like rhino because his rhino shield get Brock at like level 20 and im talking about rhino prime i don't want to know how bad rhino normal is, and there is volt that does no damage or anything he can't even say alive on level 20 to these kind of warframes should be buffed so you can have more fun with them and ask the makers to do this and stop moaning at little things like this 

[Rebellis]

The whole point of the build is something more tanky. Decent dmg reduction via armor, stacked with nikana's 85% dmg reduction from block, plus rage and life strike gets you significantly further than mirage would. Add in a counter builder/maintainer in slashdash, an AoE dmg/stagger and you are leaps and bounds better than what mirage can do. As for the icing on the cake: does mirage one shot lvl 90 heavy gunners? Excal can with most melee weapons with this build.

 

Mirage has up to 95% damage reduction and 568% weapon damage bonus that can be granted to teammates not just her. Then there is Hall of Malevolence. Rage and Life Strike are not unique to anything. Her Sleight of Hand ability (especially with syndicate augment) is arguably a better solution than any stagger Excal can accomplish. Her blind is better - goes through walls and Prism deals damage or even kills before the blind is triggered. Her passive abilities give her 50% faster movement speed and 25% faster wall runs. Nope, I'm sorry but there really is no reason to play or mod Excal except for Exalted Blade. Yeah, he can do other stuff but nothing else special.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Rebellis

[Pacheon]

why is everyone so mad about this, if the makers think that this is OP ,really it is then,so they maked it not that op so then people can play the game probably where they have to try and kill stuff then just killing everything in one hit.

 

i think that instead of people complaining about this, that every one should be asking for buffs on older warframes like rhino because his rhino shield get Brock at like level 20 and im talking about rhino prime i don't want to know how bad rhino normal is, and there is volt that does no damage or anything he can't even say alive on level 20 to these kind of warframes should be buffed so you can have more fun with them and ask the makers to do this and stop moaning at little things like this 

why is everyone so mad about this, if the makers think that this is OP ,really it is then,so they maked it not that op so then people can play the game probably where they have to try and kill stuff then just killing everything in one hit.

 

i think that instead of people complaining about this, that every one should be asking for buffs on older warframes like rhino because his rhino shield get Brock at like level 20 and im talking about rhino prime i don't want to know how bad rhino normal is, and there is volt that does no damage or anything he can't even say alive on level 20 to these kind of warframes should be buffed so you can have more fun with them and ask the makers to do this and stop moaning at little things like this 

 

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

 

[...]

I knew that EB will see some heavy nerfs, but still it is a shame that unique weapons will lose their usability. 100% more damage and now? A thorn in the eyes of the nerf squad. They don't care about the syndicate specific buffs, they only try to balance things. Sure. But they don't think further as most of us want them to. People using Prisma Skana with maxed damage mods, an elemental combo and the aug mod are causing too much damage an lv 70 units during the 40th survival min? Great. Do you guys even think and calculate further? The enemies are changing even their names when players hitting the 80th minute of torture, where the real fun starts at. I used to do those stages with the dragon nikana, while I was not owning the aug mod for skana. Max damage of 70k ~ 80k was just too low for lv 130+ enemies.

[...]

 

 

Now rethink your "DE is doing it right"-attitude.

[Melos-mevim]

as long as I can use beserker I am happy

[Uhkretor]

why is everyone so mad about this, if the makers think that this is OP ,really it is then,so they maked it not that op so then people can play the game probably where they have to try and kill stuff then just killing everything in one hit.

 

i think that instead of people complaining about this, that every one should be asking for buffs on older warframes like rhino because his rhino shield get Brock at like level 20 and im talking about rhino prime i don't want to know how bad rhino normal is, and there is volt that does no damage or anything he can't even say alive on level 20 to these kind of warframes should be buffed so you can have more fun with them and ask the makers to do this and stop moaning at little things like this 

why is everyone so mad about this, if the makers think that this is OP ,really it is then,so they maked it not that op so then people can play the game probably where they have to try and kill stuff then just killing everything in one hit.

 

i think that instead of people complaining about this, that every one should be asking for buffs on older warframes like rhino because his rhino shield get Brock at like level 20 and im talking about rhino prime i don't want to know how bad rhino normal is, and there is volt that does no damage or anything he can't even say alive on level 20 to these kind of warframes should be buffed so you can have more fun with them and ask the makers to do this and stop moaning at little things like this 

 

^ Interesting double post.

 

Anyway,

 

If what DEMegan has posted is true the mod has gone from something that brought daggers on par with other melee weapons regarding stealth play to simply a different spoiled strike with a different downside (six extra mod cost vs -15% attack speed). The bonus 'lethal' damage has been restricted to stealth finishers that during normal game play generally get the job done without Covert Lethality. Add to that the long animations tied to stealth finishers being detrimental to stealth play in general and I can see why many would feel the weapon class has gone back into the dumpster.

 

Isn't the purpose of that mod to actually help on higher level maps... like Pluto, for those that don't have the same mods that "veterans" do?

[BlueFalcon13]

Mirage has up to 95% damage reduction and 568% weapon damage bonus that can be granted to teammates not just her. Then there is Hall of Malevolence. Rage and Life Strike are not unique to anything. Her Slight of Hand ability (especially with syndicate augment) is arguably a better solution than any stagger Excal can accomplish. Her blind is better - goes through walls and Prism deals damage or even kills before the blind is triggered. Her passive abilities give her 50% faster movement speed and 25% faster wall runs. Nope, I'm sorry but there really is no reason to play or mod Excal except for Exalted Blade. Yeah, he can do other stuff but nothing else special.

The nice thing is we really don't have to agree. I personally think excal excels compared to mirage in the roll I like to play: melee orientated. If you feel excal is only for EB that is your loss. Excal is boring in EB... It lost its luster within the first week, but radial blind with +300% finisher dmg, now that is fun to me... One shot pretty much everything as needed.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I know someone mentioned Moas and Osprey as not being 1hit killable with daggers....since no Finisher animation.

But wouldn't it be the same with basiaclly all High-level Spy missions:

If you went Dagger Only with the Covert Lethality only applying to Finishers for instant kill:

-Grineer Sensor Regulators and Rollers

-Also the aforementioned Corpus Moas and Osprey, along with Infested Osprey

So for Spy mission only there will be enemies that won't be 1-hit killed with Covert Lethality with the change to this mod.

Rescue would only apply to Rollers, Moas, and Ospreys......wardens die from almost any Stealth Finisher as-is.

I totally understand Covert Lethality not applying to Exalted Blade, especially the Wave Blades....even odder that Slash Dash was not mentioned as Blind plus Slash Dash with Covert Lethality was also 1-hit kills.

Covert Lethality could have remained Dagger only akin to Power Throw/Rebound/Quick Return not applying to Exalted Blade.....imagine if Wave Blade could explode

The 1-hit kill could have been limited to a small attack radius of 3-5m for balance on Convert Lethality....

Just seems odd they drastically reduced the mods effectiveness, especially when people said it would be OP for 1-hit kills if just Stealth and especially unbalanced if it also applied to Excalibur's rework.(Then they release it as so...)

Yet normal melee hitbox reach has still been broken since 16.5......hoping Melee sees an improvement in the Year of Quality

[Uhkretor]

The nice thing is we really don't have to agree. I personally think excal excels compared to mirage in the roll I like to play: melee orientated. If you feel excal is only for EB that is your loss. Excal is boring in EB... It lost its luster within the first week, but radial blind with +300% finisher dmg, now that is fun to me... One shot pretty much everything as needed.

 

^ Just adding that Excal doesn't need to be Melee oriented to actually be better than Mirage in more than one way...

[CapedBaldy]

It seems as though my last post was removed.

 

Okay, let's try again. With this change, the source of hit points from EB is only Life Strike, which is a huge middle finger to channeling builds.

 

Good job increasing build diversity.

Edited August 15, 2015 by CapedBaldy

[NoGround]

Goodbye, prisma dual cleavers, hello Dragon Nikana w/ Life Strike. -eyeroll-

Really, this doesn't change much, but only forces Excal users to use more viable weapons for EB. Since many people play Excalibur with his passive in mind, it STILL restricts his use of weapons. 

Just thinking that the nerf to those mods is kinda.... pointless? Is that the word I'm looking for? Anyway, EB is still being brought in line with the rest of the Ultimates out there, though too much more and it might drive Excal back into uselessness.

Maybe if the augment mods still applied the DAMAGE, but remove the Proc Chance, it would still keep the Skanas and Cleavers viable.

Edited August 15, 2015 by NoGround

[Rebellis]

The nice thing is we really don't have to agree. I personally think excal excels compared to mirage in the roll I like to play: melee orientated. If you feel excal is only for EB that is your loss. Excal is boring in EB... It lost its luster within the first week, but radial blind with +300% finisher dmg, now that is fun to me... One shot pretty much everything as needed.

 

Radiant finish isn't worth modding over and performing finisher attacks over and over is slow and boring, but if you like it that's great.

[Uhkretor]

^ Frontal finishers are faster, in case you want to take advantage of that timeframe.

[Araan]

Can Warframe be bought from a company knows what it is doing?

Because DE has proven that has no idea what it does.

[TenguBlade]

So you're taking away the whole reason i dusted off my Skana so i could actually have some use for it on my exal. WTF DE. You said mere WEEKS ago that syndicate mods were working as intended w/ EB now you you're taking it away. Seriously what bull feces is this. With the changes syndicate mods become effectively worthless.

It's a starter sword that doesn't even have a MK-1 variant.  That should give you an idea of what levels of gameplay the Skana was meant for.  And don't even start on any of that nonsense about the Prisma Skana; if you bought it you would've wasted less credits and ducats buying the Prisma Tetra.  Fact is, swords are just underpowered compared to other melee weapons.  Don't have the range of polearms/staves, the hitting power of heavy blades, or the critical/stat chance of whips and dual axes.  I killed Void enemies faster with a Prova Vandal than the Prisma Skana.  The only reason I would chose a sword/Nikana over any other melee type with Excalibur is because they give his ability and melee damage (and attack speed) a 10% boost, and with the introduction of the Prisma Dual Cleavers, there's a better option than any sword or nikana.  Prisma Dual Cleavers has a syndicate mod for it just like the Prisma Skana.

 

The damage bonus of syndicate mods shouldn't affect Exalted Blade, I agree, but the effect still should collect affinity from it.  Don't know how hard that would be to code, although coding difficulty should not be an excuse for lack of proper balancing.

Edited August 15, 2015 by TenguBlade

[Pizzarugi]

Ew, bummer. 

 

The Exalted Blade thing was obvious, but Finisher only for Covert Lethality is disappointing. Finishers are so slow and cumbersome.

Slow, cumbersome, and impossible to pull off consistently in endless wave missions unless using very specific frames.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Pizzarugi

[Rebellis]

^ Frontal finishers are faster, in case you want to take advantage of that timeframe.

 

No thanks. Just build for Exalted Blade.

 

Press 2 when you need it, and spam E.

 

99.999% of all players I've ever played with are satisfied with two rotation C's.

 

Modding and applying forma to try and reach a third or fourth just isn't worth it.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Rebellis

[BlueFalcon13]

No thanks. Just build for EB.

Press 2 when you need it, and spam E.

And you say a non-EB build is boring... The sound of rusty hedge clippers is enough alone to make me not want to run EB builds. Guess that's our difference, you love excal for OPness, I love excal for everything but his OPness. To be quite honest with you, I play excal less since the changes, because of EB. Snooze fest skill that it is...

[Rebellis]

And you say a non-EB build is boring... The sound of rusty hedge clippers is enough alone to make me not want to run EB builds. Guess that's our difference, you love excal for OPness, I love excal for everything but his OPness. To be quite honest with you, I play excal less since the changes, because of EB. Snooze fest skill that it is...

 

There's a difference between slow and boring, which is what you like, and a fast and efficient way to kill 99% of the games enemies which is what I prefer when playing Excal.

[kennelia]

Well, I guess this means going back to using just Scindo Prime/Dragon Nikana. 'Tis a shame too, I actually enjoyed using more than just two weapons...

[Rebellis]

Well, I guess this means going back to using just Scindo Prime/Dragon Nikana. 'Tis a shame too, I actually enjoyed using more than just two weapons...

 

Use those expensive pieces of kit if you want, but you'll deal more damage and be of more help to more squads using a max efficiency Exalted Blade build, and the only melee weapon you need for that is the free Skana you were given at the beginning of the game.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Rebellis

[Uhkretor]

No thanks. Just build for Exalted Blade.

 

Press 2 when you need it, and spam E.

 

99.999% of all players I've ever played with are satisfied with two rotation C's.

 

Modding and applying forma to try and reach a third or fourth just isn't worth it.

 

"Just build for Exalted Blade" is a personal prefference. I'm pretty sure that, right now, anyone that hasn't specifically built for Exalted Blade is seeing this whole debate as venting purpose about why DE's adjustment (yes, adjustment. It isn't a nerf in any possible way, no matter what arguments you or anyone else present in an attempt to prove something) just ruined your so proudly called "Exalted Blade build". This is something very, very, VERY rare to happen with an online game, which is when the Devs are on the same absolute page as, at least, one player within the community. In this case, DE and me are absolutely on the same page.

 

Also, personally, I don't need to hit 2 and then press the Melee Attack/Quick Melee button in order to kill with melee during endless missions. The only moment I actually need to use Radial Blind to kill is when I start reaching lvl180+ enemies, and even then I don't use finishers on endless missions... Alone, in case you're wondering which you most definitely aren't.

 

There's a difference between slow and boring, which is what you like, and a fast and efficient way to kill 99% of the games enemies which is what I prefer when playing Excal.

 

Maybe the problem lies in wanting to do it fast. I understand there's a huge pressure in killing enemies when they start reaching lvl100 and above, especially in Survivals, but you end up lowering your effectiveness the moment you choose to kill fast. Both things nullify each other, since "efficiently" automatically implies balance in your build. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER should one build for a specific Warframe ability. Ever, I tried it before and it opens weakpoints that AI enemies will exploit and use those weakpoints against you or anyone else. The only Warframe I know that actually takes advantage of such a specific build is Frost (Snow Globe) and even so I advise against it because if that ability fails, they will end up having nothing. You can't do it slowly either, because you won't be effective. You need to run somewhere in between, prefferably leaning towards the 'fast' side of the equation...

 

Leaning, not stepping into, dating, loving, marrying, living with and getting buried inside the extreme section of the equation. Those that did such a thing have been complaining about it being a nerf since the topic was created.

[Rebellis]

At least with the syndicate mods + EB, we had a variety of weapons to choose from based on different effects.

 

Now we have a variety of weapons to choose from none of which will get Excal any further than the noob starter weapon.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Rebellis

[CGs_Knackie]

Good changing are rare. 

Either it's so OP or it's too much nerfed. Never between both...

Thanks for CL nerf.

This mod was very powerful however not with every Warframes and it worked on daggers, only daggers.

Only some frames could benefit there.

It should work only to direct approach not on ranged attacks like exalted blade. 

What's the next nerf? Seriously it would be good to checking up mods etc before to release it.

[BlueFalcon13]

At least with the syndicate mods + EB, we had a variety of weapons to choose from based on different effects.

Now we have a variety of weapons to choose from none of which will get Excal any further than the noob starter weapon.

You choose to build your excal that way. TBH, the melee weapon has never mattered, just the mods in it. If you choose to ignore other play-styles, that is your decision. I merely tried to show you another playstyle just like you asked. If you want to stick to your guns, that's fine, do your thing. This is a very minor nerf to be honest. Take out your syndicate mod, and drop in a 90% elemental mod. 10% less dmg, the proc is gone but now your EB build with your starter weapon is adapted to the change. My D. Nikana is already setup for this change, with pressure point, the event 120% slash, fury, and life strike, plus all 90% elementals, which I can rearrange for the mob types I am fighting. BTW, min-maxing power strength for EB is not nearly as important as the melee mods. The same build I listed works fine for carrying nublets through 40 mins of ODS. Trust me, I usually forget to use my power strength build. Only times I ever use my EB builds is if I know I have to carry the team.

[kennelia]

Use those expensive pieces of kit if you want, but you'll deal more damage and be of more help to more squads using a max efficiency Exalted Blade build, and the only melee weapon you need for that is the free Skana you were given at the beginning of the game.

I agree, Excal with or without the syndicate mods is still a great frame. The problem is that I can no longer use different melee weapons in unconventional ways. Daggers, Skanas and Dual Cleavers are now just weaker versions of the Nikanas and nothing else. Their singular purpose is to deal damage when an enemy gets too close (Which they are now almost completely useless for at higher levels). Nothing more, nothing less. At least with the Syndicate mods and CL I could find a little niche to make using those weapons over the Scindo Prime/Dragon Nikana worthwhile. There is ZERO reason to not use either of the weapons.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm just bitter because I spent a lot of time getting to the point that I could make these different weapons viable, but I still don't have to like it.