Pc Psa: Covert Lethality + Exalted Blade Changes

[Void_Vis_Vires]

I didnt see it in the patch notes, did they do it?

[NovusNova]

I didnt see it in the patch notes, did they do it?

 

"Limited the number of Mods that can interact with Exalted Blade as per: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/511036-pc-psa-covert-lethality-exalted-blade-changes/ "

 

Second Line under changes on U17.2: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/514266-update-172/

[Void_Vis_Vires]

"Limited the number of Mods that can interact with Exalted Blade as per: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/511036-pc-psa-covert-lethality-exalted-blade-changes/ "

 

Second Line under changes on U17.2: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/514266-update-172/

 Ahh I see, guess I was just that much in denial, GG DE! great way to discourage build potential!

[Rem_NL]

again i want my money back

 

keep digging DE keep digging

Edited August 19, 2015 by Rem_NL

[undernown]

 

Tenno,

 

Today Covert Lethality will be changed from ‘lethal damage if undetected’ to ‘lethal damage on stealth-finishers’. Covert Lethality is supposed to grant Lethal Damage for stealth tactics and not ground-slamming or obliterating blind enemies. We know this may come as a disappointment as many Tenno have sworn their life to the power of this Mod however the myriad of unintended uses was proving more powerful than intended.

 

After considering the use of Covert Lethality for Exalted Blade a debate ensued about the use of melee Mods that are specific to certain weapons; again, it was decided that while we intended for certain melee Mods to amplify Exalted Blade it didn't make sense for all melee Mods to apply. For example, currently the buff from Justice Blades works for Exalted Blade even though the mod is an augment for the Dual Cleavers.

 

Next week we intend to limit the Melee mods that work with Exalted Blade strictly to generic mods (ie: Pressure Point, Molten Impact, etc) but not weapon-specific augments. We appreciate that this will remove certain fitting strategies however we feel that those combos were not the intention of the ability and want to avoid making it so that you only want to play Excalibur with one or two specific weapons.

 

We hope that you will agree that this is better for Warframe balance and makes conceptual sense for how you would expect the power to work.

 

You do realise this has the exact opposite effect of what you intend?

You removed the only strength the Skana, Dual Cleavers, Jaw Sword, Mire, Dark Dagger and Kestrel had over the Dakra Prime, Galantine, Scindo Prime, Tipedo, Tonbo, Orthos and Dragon Nikana.

There's no pointing in using them with Excalibur over the well establisht, stronger weapons.

So thats 6 weapons LESS diversity to choose form, if your going for high-end melee weapons for Excalted Blade.

 

I just don't see how this opens up more choice.

So next up your gonna remove more mods except the base mods? If that includes scrapping crit mods and status mods, you only limit the choice further. If you plan on removing lifestrike mods form that table as well, this ability becomes almost useless cause you'll simply die while using it.

Valkytr's Hysteria ads invulnerability AND lifesteal, it will make Exalted Blade without a means to regain health seem like a joke of an ability.

 

And did you forget why those syndicate mods were made for weapons like the Skana and Jaw Sword? cause they were the underdog in the melee class in the first place and never held up in higher lvls for long.

 

I agree that Exalted Blade is a bit overpowered, but i feel like the balancing is focused in the wrong direction.

If you simply reduce the damage multiplier from Exalted Blade it would be a lot easier to tweak, and a lot mroe effective, while keeping all weapons viable with exalted blade.

Example:

Reduce the damage bonus from 250 to 200 ( If you go down to 175 it comes on-par with Hysteria, which already has better defensive capabilities than Excalted Blade) and the damage bonus from the waves from 250 to 150.

This will:

- Makes using the blade like an actual melee weapon more effective then using it as a unlimited-bladewave-shooting-spamclick weapon.

- The blade waves will still be a viable attack against priority targets that are dangerous to attack at melee range, that often stick to the rear of enemy mobs like Nullifiers and Healers.

- Killing heavy units like Bombards and heavy gunners from a distance will become more risky then closing in and denying their ranged capabilities as the time to kill them is about twice as long from a distance then up close.

 

I really hope you consider my suggestions, cause it looks like next-week's changes will make Excalibur's ultimate almost obsolete again.

[FantasyBatman]

ugh daggers are useless again, it would be nice if DE tested the things they make before they realeased it then we would not need all these nurfs.

[FaintestAura]

Well this is legitimately disappointing. I would hope some thought would be put into most of our concerns. Guess its back to Scindo Prime/Dakra Prime/D Nikana

[Pr1nce]

Wow.. really? EB nerf? So once again, we players get screwed over hard after spending time and effort to get the appropriate mods to be applied on certain weapons that makes EB great and fun. Lol.. its funny come to think about it.

 

DE was like, "Hmm.. Those skanas, cleavers, etc are not being used. Lets give players a reason to use it again by buffing it via syn mods."

 

and now DE is like, "Oh s**t! Those weapons "seemed" OP on excal's EB. We gotta find a way for players to stop using skanas, cleavers, etc and use other weapons instead."

 

So they nerfed EB.. Wow.. Just wow.

 

Lesson learnt or a reminder?

1. Never get too attached to anything in this game or the game itself.

2. When you feel like blowing some cash on this game, think twice, three, four, X times as your investment would go down the drain directly or indirectly with nerfs like this.

 

Way to go DE... I guess China is doing great for you guys huh.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Pr1nce

[lotoria]

There are six melee agument mods available for EB. If "you only want to play Excalibur with one or two specific weapons" is true, why the rest of five or four augment mods have to be limited?

The logic here is broken.

[Bryntwulf]

This will just make melee choice ultimately pointless for Excal. Players will use anything but the syndicate weapons, as syndicate mods will just be dead slots, and any weapons made with unique mods will also be avoided, as they'll be ultimately useless. The nerf to EB will have one effect; making every endgame Excal build identical, and melee chosen for Excal will be purely for looks. 

 

I hope you reconsider. The better way to go about this would be to trickle in more melee mods for weapon types that just happen to benefit Excal and Valkyr a bit. How about a shield mod that makes them block 100%, a mod to let heavy weapons bypass armor, a multishot mod for gunblades, a chance to disarm enemies for fist/claw/sparring weapons, a momentum mod for swords/Nikanas, horizontal range mods for Staffs/Polearms, DOTs for whip lacerations, or making it so that Throwing Weapon mods work with it? Going in that direction would give players a reason to use the other weapons, and encourage players to try new things, rather than make it so that players inherently avoid spectacular weapons simply because they will effectively be penalized an EB mod slot for it? 

[Keerith]

Mmph.

 

No, Covert Lethality's instant kill should not apply to ground slams, syndicate procs, or Exalted Blade. But, really... stealth finishers are lame enough. :( I like being able to stab two enemies. And what if you get a fire hazard level and every enemy is on alert to begin with?

 

And the poor Skana/Skana Prime. Onto the shelf again.

[Draviant]

Dear DE;

 

Working as intended =/= fun.

 

You should know this by now dammit. Listen to the god damm community...

 

Making daggers useless again and forcing every single Excalibur user to limit themselves to Scindo Prime/Dakra Prime/Dragon Nikana like all the other frames...

 

It's too hard making EB moddable at the armory with his own mods? Or just adding a new augment slot to all the weapons? How about buffing other melee weapons like...i don't know...EVERYTHING except Scindo Prime and Dragon Nikana? And the daggers....

 

This is how you encourage the use of other melee weapons? By imposing two weapons? Yeah....genius....just genius...

[Lightwire]

And so the inevitable chain of Exalted Blade nerfs begins.

 

Going to miss being able rely on Bright Purity for health instead of Life Strike. Maybe if DE actually started releasing more Syndicate weapon augments, it would be more than just "two melee weapons". Hell, they could have made the +projectile speed Kestrel augment also affect Exalted Blade projectiles.

 

It's quite hilarious, actually. With this change, people wanting to use Skana AND Exalted Blade will run into a problem. If they want to completely minmax Skana, they HAVE to use Bright Purity, which will waste a potential slot that could be used for more Exalted Blade damage. If they want to completely minmax Exalted Blade, they CANNOT use Bright Purity, which puts a huge handicap on the effectiveness of the Skana. Meanwhile, anyone who favors any other melee weapon besides Cleavers gets the best of both worlds. The augments are supposed to be reasons to use these weapons. You've essentially made them the exact opposite.

 

This is a fine example of nerfing a playstyle too much. In an attempt to eliminate the meta, you've established a new one; now instead of ONLY Skana/Cleavers, it's ANYTHING BUT Skana/Cleavers.

 

Wanna know what the funniest part about this is? If augments actually had their own slot, this problem could have been completely avoided.

 

Edit: 17 pages of opinions and discussion later, it seems a good amount of players aren't very appreciative of this change. Maybe it should be reconsidered, developers. Here's to hoping you're actually reading the comments on this thread.

These are changes. Adjustments. Tweaks. The word 'nerf' is thrown about way too much.

Change damage to a weapon. Nerfed. Switch the way one mechanic to another. Nerfed. Making something work completely different to discourage dominant strategy? Nerfed.

They clearly labeled out the reason for this change. It was creating dominant strategy. This game isn't about reliance on a particular build or a particular weapon. It's about creating your own method and synergizing it with your playstyle and your teammates. 

If anything this helps because I was already ready to only bring daggers with Excal. Exclusively. Until I realized that I was just about to succumb to dominant strategy. 

It's like someone gives you a rocket launcher and you use it to club people over the head instead of taking out that tank over there, then complaining that you don't have a weapon to take out the tank.

[Exhalted_Phoenix]

Exalted Blade nerf with syndicate synergy is terrible. Doesn't make me want to use other weapons. There is a reason why I spent a lot of time and plat behind my Prisma Skana, and this just made me not want to even play Excalibur. Covert Lethality was fixed but why touched Exalted Blade? Ruined what was fun with Excalibur trying to fix the meta. I will continue playing Excalibur but I will never look at my Skana the same way. Literally not even gonna be able to proc the syndicate effect because Melee 2.0 is also terrible. Not to mention the parry nerfs in U17. It's like you're trying to kill melee. No we are not happy with Excalibur nerfs.

[SilverHelix]

A future edit to the lengthy process of a finisher, is perhaps enable future gap closing finisher combo's. Like Excalibur's Slash and dash, if you have the counters, it will charge to the next mob and continue. Something like that would be ideal for finishers. Especially given that (unless my experience is due to lack of skill, which i doubt is the only issue - others have it too?) when you finish off an enemy, any others around him tend to be alerted and thus ending your stealth spree, till you kill anything that saw you at least.

[Poolboy]

These are changes. Adjustments. Tweaks. The word 'nerf' is thrown about way too much.

Change damage to a weapon. Nerfed. Switch the way one mechanic to another. Nerfed. Making something work completely different to discourage dominant strategy? Nerfed.

They clearly labeled out the reason for this change. It was creating dominant strategy. This game isn't about reliance on a particular build or a particular weapon. It's about creating your own method and synergizing it with your playstyle and your teammates. 

If anything this helps because I was already ready to only bring daggers with Excal. Exclusively. Until I realized that I was just about to succumb to dominant strategy. 

It's like someone gives you a rocket launcher and you use it to club people over the head instead of taking out that tank over there, then complaining that you don't have a weapon to take out the tank.

Your argument makes no sense. Excal wasn't a dominant strategy. His EB was good,  but it wasn't game-breaking good. Why does it bother you people that some things are better than others? 

[GrizzlyEX]

This change ... it don't make me wanna use other weapons but it make me don't wanna play Excalibur now );

[.Tabris]

All this "not as intended" we get thrown all the time is shacking may confidence in DE. I mean, when EB came around, synd mods didn't quite work, so they changed it to work "as intended" (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/479235-hotfix-1694/). And now they changed it back because it wasn't working "as intended"?

Not sure about you guys, but I'm really confused .....


Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy this game, since before Founders, and I'll probably play for a long time still. I just wish I could trust the Devs words a little more. I have this lingering feeling that every new update might "betray" me in some way .....

 

Edit: the link, first post by Dev.

 

Again, I agree that it makes no sense for EB to inherit effects from weapon specific mods, so I'm o.k with the changes.

 

What I am not o.k with is DE going back and forth on their own words !!

Edited August 20, 2015 by .Zefir

[lxMattAranxl]

I'm actually okay with this, because for one "Covert Lethality" on a Exalted Blade makes zero sense, for starters, mainly due to Exalted Blade as a longsword-type like the Skana and Cronos, which doesn't fit with the mod at all. Plus for extra damage without it, just blind the enemies with Radial Blind and there you go, first-hand tested (a many) on Draco, and I use a Glaive Prime as my main! :D

 

As for Syndicate mods that's actually understandable as well, since the Exalted Blade is it's own weapon for Excalibur (much like Valkyr's ability). It overrides whatever melee weapon you have and takes over it's slot till it's deactivated, making leveling melee weapons in team matches unable to gain affinity (also... Draco runs), so would make sense to also deactivate the weapon-specific mods since they aren't affiliated with Exalted Blade.

 

Plus, not sure why some complain about Life Strike, since it's a life saver in many cases. Just blind, channel, slash once, instant heal, the energy waves do the trick and can even be activated before a wave hits a enemy to save energy.

 

Going back on topic, the mod is also meant for stealth play which fits well with daggers, so wouldn't make sense to hit a enemy with it when they are fully aware of you (ex: Radial Blind).

 

Sorry for the long explanation,I do that sometimes but hopefully helps makes the Grineer misera- HELPS with stealth Gameplay! :] (You didn't see anything. >_O)

Edited August 20, 2015 by lxMattAranxl

[Huterbraten]

First you buff the excal, now the nerf chain beggins and god knows when will it stop, why u guys must always ruin everithing that i love from this game ? 

 

Y u do this to me DE... why ??? :c

[Nadarejin]

Could they at least add a buff to the stealth finisher animation speed? Stealth finishers, even with daggers are awkwardly slow. Wish it was as fast as the stealth kills in Crysis. I could stealth kill 3 enemies there vs 1 dagger stealth kill here.

[Nitresco]

 

Notice how I didn't particularly address the CL change in my post? It's because I felt that was alright.

I'm protesting the change to Syndicate mods not affecting EB.

[(PSN)skydrive]

Man this sucks... I mean, whatever happened to the prized melee weapon of the first Warframe.... To be honest I would be using the Kestrel instead of the Prisma Skana every now and then just for the energy (haven't yet, keep forgetting to swap melee weapons).

 

As far as I can tell, the problem derives not from the mods being applied to Exalted Blade, but HOW they are applied to Exalted Blade, as in the waves. The Damage mods, the ones that acctually apply regular damage boosts, that are not Lethal Damage, those ones are fine. The applying Lethal Damage on the waves... thats a different story all together.... Your dealing lethal damage to something, it should ofcourse be a finisher that is involved. So just have Lethal Damage apply only on Finisher attack if EB is being used, as that would actually not effect as much. Makes it simpler for players then going out and then back into EB if they wanted to inflict Lethal Damage.

 

If one of the points of no longer having Exalted Blade being effected by Syndicate mods is there seems to be a lack of variety, then simply add more weapon based Syndicate mods, like a range mod for the Atamos from Steel Meridian, either a Syndicate Fury mod for the Galatine from the Arbiters, a Crit chance mod for the Atterax from the Red Veil, etc. Heck maybe even offer new Melee Syndicate weapons as well.

[Kazugama]

I agree with the changes to EB, I don't understand why people are so salty about not being able to break the game. Just because you cant use your syndicate augments to make EB completely overpowered doesn't mean you can't use the weapon.

[NeoNochka]

Burn to hell!!!!